Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

Forgot this from the ET interview:

Quote

We also know that we're going see an older Iris in the future timeline sometime this season. What can you tell us about that?

Yeah, you definitely see Iris... A couple different times you'll see Iris in the future. I don't want to get into if we see anybody else, not yet, but yeah, it's fun. You have to imagine with Barry vanishing and Iris in the future becoming this single mother and raising Nora and her child as speedsters. You've heard about some of the decisions that she's had to make, but now you get to see the woman she became because of all that hardship and pain and why she made those decisions.

Ehhh... I'm taking this with a grain of salt, and not going to get my hopes up too much.  I do want to see Future!Iris (and the rest of Team Flash), but Helbing's ideas and what I want are probably two different things.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

Quotes from the E! Online Helbing interview:

Quote

"After our midseason premiere, they get a little bit more info about what they're doing and how it's changing the future, so it feeds into what they're doing and how they're approaching the rest of the season, and with Cicada, if anything they're doing is having an effect on the legacy of this guy," Helbing says, but he promises "there is a way to defeat him" that Barry is just going to have to figure out. 

....

"We see an Iris who has continued on with her life as a single mother and made the decisions she made, and told her daughter the lies she told her for very specific reasons, and how it's affected her. The version you see is not the version that we know now," he said, and then things got confusing. "You eventually will see her in the future as she is, and then there's multiple versions of the future that you see, not necessarily because the timeline has changed..." 

....

[About the metahuman cure:] "None of these guys really had any part to play in if they wanted these powers, right? So I think it's on everybody's mind that we're partially responsible for this happening to everybody in the city and beyond, and we didn't get a choice to say whether we wanted this or not," Helbing says. "So if there is a cure, a) how do we keep it [away from] people that may use it irresponsibly, but b) there needs to be a choice in this equation, and how do we do that responsibly?" 

....

"We know the nuts and bolts of what's going to happen next season, so we know where we'd have to get all these characters to emotionally to set it up properly, so there's certainly some work that we have to do," Helbing says of planting the [Crisis on] Infinite Earths seeds. 

....

...and Helbing says the show will "address something with the newspaper by the end of the season." 

[SimoneS]

Quote

"We see an Iris who has continued on with her life as a single mother and made the decisions she made, and told her daughter the lies she told her for very specific reasons, and how it's affected her. The version you see is not the version that we know now," he said, and then things got confusing. "You eventually will see her in the future as she is, and then there's multiple versions of the future that you see, not necessarily because the timeline has changed..." 

What does this mean? We see future Iris in Nora's memories next week. Probably we see future Iris when Barry travels to the future to confront Thawne. Barry will interact with her like he did with his future self in season 3. Still not liking how Helbing has characterized future Iris. 

 

Quote

"We know the nuts and bolts of what's going to happen next season, so we know where we'd have to get all these characters to emotionally to set it up properly, so there's certainly some work that we have to do," Helbing says of planting the [Crisis on] Infinite Earths seeds. 

So basically the rest of the season is about putting the characters in place to set up next season's crossover. I definitely expect Thawne to escape, but I think the bigger mystery is what happens to this version of Nora. Does she fade out of existence or return to future? I can't help wondering if Iris will be pregnant by the end of the season or by the time the crossover comes along 

 

Quote

...and Helbing says the show will "address something with the newspaper by the end of the season."

I wonder if this means that the date on the newspaper will change? Nora's timeline antics might move up the date of Barry's confrontation with Thawne and disappearance.  I hope next season the team devotes itself to stopping Barry from disappearing after he goes back to the past to stop Thawne. They need to figure out why he doesn't return and come up with a plan to help him get back home.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[Starry]

I'm very upset about the time of Barry's disappearance changing to set up a crossover where Oliver Queen will take center stage as usual. I'm not even going to pretend that isn't what's happening. He made that deal with the Monitor for a reason. Another big Flash milestone being wasted on a crossover. A storyline they've been setting up since the first season. Unbelievable. I haven't been this upset since I found out they were going to exploit the WestAllen wedding to set up that other crossover.

Is Iris even going to work for Central City Citizen by that time? They've given zero indication she's even considering going back to work for a newspaper. I am not interested in Todd's cheap talk.

[SimoneS]

25 minutes ago, Starry said:

I'm very upset about the time of Barry's disappearance changing to set up a crossover where Oliver Queen will take center stage as usual. I'm not even going to pretend that isn't what's happening. He made that deal with the Monitor for a reason. Another big Flash milestone being wasted on a crossover. A storyline they've been setting up since the first season. Unbelievable. I haven't been this upset since I found out they were going to exploit the WestAllen wedding to set up that other crossover.

Is Iris even going to work for Central City Citizen by that time? They've given zero indication she's even considering going back to work for a newspaper. I am not interested in Todd's cheap talk.

We don't know for sure that they will change the date of Barry's disappearance. It is just fan speculation so far. I could be wrong. There is a chance that the crisis event where Barry disappears occurs at a different time from the Final Crisis with the Monitor that they seem to be setting up for next season, but it does seem like they are conflating the two crisis events.

[Starry]

7 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

We don't know for sure that they will change the date of Barry's disappearance. It is just fan speculation so far. I could be wrong. There is a chance that the crisis event where Barry disappears occurs at a different time from the Final Crisis with the Monitor that they seem to be setting up for next season, but it does seem like they are conflating the two crisis events.

The interview Todd gave doesn't leave much room for speculation. I had some hope after Elseworlds but not anymore. Unless something changes between now and the next crossover they are definitely conflating the two events.

[Trini]

Yeah, there's a quote that I posted that seems to confirm they merging COIE with the 'newspaper Crisis'.

I had figured that when The Flash finally got around to playing out the 2024 Crisis, they would involve the other shows. But from what it looks like now, they're just merging Flash's story with COIE because... it's convenient? Before Arrow is cancelled? I hope there's a good enough chance that they're not going to, because they need that event to build toward.

 

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

What does this mean? We see future Iris in Nora's memories next week. Probably we see future Iris when Barry travels to the future to confront Thawne. Barry will interact with her like he did with his future self in season 3. Still not liking how Helbing has characterized future Iris. 

My guess is that "multiple versions of the future" just means that we'll see different points in the future.

[Velocity23]

[SimoneS]

So I was right that we are getting Lyla and ARGUS with King Shark and Grodd on their way. It should be a fun episode.

Edited January 16, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

If she's filming now, Lyla should be in episode 15.

----

Promo photos for 5.11 are out:

Killer Frost vs. Cicada,

 

And Peekaboo's back for a cameo!

--

I hope not, but I think Cisco might be missing from this episode.

[Trini]

Why, Helbing, WHY

Quote

"We've certainly been teasing [the headline] a long time, but it's a major factor in next year's crossover," The Flash showrunner Todd Helbing recently told TV Guide. "There will be little tidbits here and there that people will be able to start to put together."

https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-flash-missing-headline-crisis-on-infinite-earths-crossover/

Isn't the crossover going to be complicated enough?

Do I dare hold on to the glimmer of hope that Todd gets to be in charge of the overall crossover like Guggenheim was for the last one? (Since they want to fold in Flash's story and bring in Flash viewers.)

[SimoneS]

Gawd. Why? Why? Why? *shakes fist in the air* There goes my last bit of hope that the next crossover would be contained. Now I have to accept that Barry will disappear and Iris will give birth on another show. I will catch it on YT as usual. I would blame Berlanti, but DC is beginning to earn my wrath .

Edited January 17, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

So basically the rest of the season is about putting the characters in place to set up next season's crossover. I definitely expect Thawne to escape, but I think the bigger mystery is what happens to this version of Nora. Does she fade out of existence or return to future? I can't help wondering if Iris will be pregnant by the end of the season or by the time the crossover comes along 

I REALLY don't want this, but it's looking more likely if they're moving up the Crisis timeline.

[SimoneS]

8 minutes ago, Trini said:

I REALLY don't want this, but it's looking more likely if they're moving up the Crisis timeline.

Yep, it does look that way. Iris has to get pregnant before Barry "disappears." Since they aren't going to do a time jump with all the shows, it most likely that thanks to Nora's interference, Barry's confrontation with Thawne occurs next season instead of 2024. Iris announces that she is pregnant in this season's finale and then we find out she is having twins when the show returns in the fall giving us and the "we're going to need more diapers" line. Of course, she will be giving birth on one of the other shows during the crossover, most like Batwoman since it will desperately need what remains of The Flash's dwindling audience. Why? Why? Here is to hoping that next season I look back at this comment and it turns out that I was dead wrong. 

[ruby24]

They have to at least let her give birth on her own show (assuming we're all right and she'll be pregnant with twins by the end of this season- I think we are).

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

They have to at least let her give birth on her own show (assuming we're all right and she'll be pregnant with twins by the end of this season- I think we are).

I appreciate your optimism, even though I don't share it. I think that they are capable of anything after they had Barry and Iris get married on another show. I think the best scenario I can hope for is that Iris doesn't get pregnant until the crossover.

I wonder if Barry will disappear during the crossover and return by the time that it ends. I don't think that they would have Barry actually missing on The Flash although they could do an episode showing Barry trapped like they did when he was in the Speed Force in season 2.

Edited January 17, 2019 by SimoneS

[Starry]

Honestly, I don't think Barry's disappearance and whatever happens with Iris will be a huge factor at all. Not in a crossover that has to spotlight the main heroes from the other shows as well. Not after a crossover that implied Oliver made some sort of heroic sacrifice to save Barry and Kara ( they have to acknowledge that and give the fans a pay-off in the COIE crossover ). Not when Arrow is ending and they need to give that shows protagonist enough importance in what could possibly be his last crossover. Barry disappearing, getting an article written about him means he needs to be the main hero of the story and there are too many things that make me believe that can't happen. I fully expect that headline to change. This means Iris doesn't need to be pregnant by that time because Barry won't disappear. That stays an Easter Egg from another timeline. It would be very depressing but this show disappoints over and over again.

I expected Crisis to be something they would explore in Flash last season to come full circle ( unless they're ending the show with s6, which would be very very odd ). Same with Iris being pregnant. TH admitted that it's hard to write for little kids in superhero shows. I personally think it can be done but they don't seem interested in trying. I think Barry and Iris will have their babies in the last season but under different circumstances.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Starry

[Trini]

5.13 description:

Quote

"Goldfaced"

BARRY AND IRIS EACH TAKE DANGEROUS STEPS TO STOP CICADA - Barry (Grant Gustin) and Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) must go undercover as criminals in an illegal black market to purchase a device that could help them stop Cicada (Chris Klein). Once inside, Barry and Ralph find their morality tested as they slip deeper into the criminal world, eventually having to choose between committing a crime, or losing the means to defeat one of their greatest foes. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) investigates a lead on Cicada's whereabouts and ends up in a dangerous situation.

Alexandra LaRoche directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza (#513). Original airdate 2/5/2019.

 

It figures this a Butler/Garza episode. More thoughts later.

[BeautifulFlower]

I'm happy to see Iris with a plot. I hope it doesn't amount to 5 min of screentime.

 

With that said, isn't Jonathan one of the weaker writers?

[Trini]

5 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

With that said, isn't Jonathan one of the weaker writers?

Butler and Garza always write as a team, so can't really pin anything on one of them. They're not bad, but they were responsible for some of the more cringe-y 'humor' last season. To me, it seems like they favor action, jokes, and Ralph; so I've got an idea of how the tone of the episode might be.

[Trini]

Quote

"Goldfaced"

BARRY AND IRIS EACH TAKE DANGEROUS STEPS TO STOP CICADA -

What is this title referring to? I'm hoping it's just a typo; or that it makes sense in the episode.

Cicada picked the wrong power couple to mess with!
 

Quote

Barry (Grant Gustin) and Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) must go undercover as criminals in an illegal black market to purchase a device that could help them stop Cicada (Chris Klein). Once inside, Barry and Ralph find their morality tested as they slip deeper into the criminal world, eventually having to choose between committing a crime, or losing the means to defeat one of their greatest foes.

This sounds serious here, but from Hartley's interview, we know this is going to be at least half comedic. Grant and Hartley play off each other well, and haven't interacted much this season; so I'm looking forward to that. (Although now I wishing for a Barry/Cisco team-up for an A-plot.) Nothing groundbreaking in the plot. I hope they let Barry be smart and figure a way out of their dilemma.

No mention of a villain-of-the-week; so I assume it's someone forgettable. Again.
 

Quote

Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) investigates a lead on Cicada's whereabouts and ends up in a dangerous situation.

I think it's interesting that this is only the third episode description that does not mention Nora. Is she still incapacitated? I'm really curious about who Iris is sharing the B-plot with. I'd love it if it's Cisco or Nora. "A dangerous situation"? Will she meet Cicada? His code is to only kill metas, so maybe not that dangerous?  Or is it something else?

[Trini]

CW released two more photos for 5.11 with Barry/Iris/Nora, but none of the sites I usually go to for photos has them up.

----

From TVLine:

Quote

Question: Will we start seeing The Flash‘s Iris create the Central City Citizen soon? –Anthony

Ausiello: “Yes,” showrunner Todd Helbing told Matt Mitovich. “And it is cool.” The EP went on to say that in the back half of Season 5, “Iris has realized she stopped [news reporting] for whatever reason, but there’s something that motivates her to go full bore.” What caused the brief pause? The “Flash Vanishes in Crisis” newspaper headline from the Time Vault “carries a lot of baggage with it,” Helbing explained, “but it’s a hurdle that Iris has to get over before she can go full steam.”

 

Don't get me wrong, I love that they are getting back to Iris and her career; but it's annoying that they have to rush her arc because they're rushing the 2024 Crisis story.

But since Helbing mentioned the 'baggage' of that headline, that better mean that Barry and Iris finally sit down and have a talk about his disappearance.

[Trini]

Theory about the "Goldfaced" title.

[Trini]

Quote

Barry (Grant Gustin) and Ralph (Hartley Sawyer) must go undercover as criminals ...

Back to this for a second: Can Barry even go undercover? I know the show is going to ignore it or handwave it away, but Barry Allen was the subject of a very notorious criminal trial in Central City just a year ago. I'm not sure if I want to see him in disguise; but that would make sense.

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

Don't get me wrong, I love that they are getting back to Iris and her career; but it's annoying that they have to rush her arc because they're rushing the 2024 Crisis story.

But since Helbing mentioned the 'baggage' of that headline, that better mean that Barry and Iris finally sit down and have a talk about his disappearance.

It is so weird that Barry and Iris haven't had one their intense heart to hearts about his possible 25 year disappearance concluding with their usual "our love will conquer all" dialog and that Barry/Iris and the rest of Team Flash haven't started to brainstorm a plan to either stop Barry from disappearing or to help him find his way back home.

Edited January 19, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:24 PM, Trini said:

CW released two more photos for 5.11 with Barry/Iris/Nora, but none of the sites I usually go to for photos has them up.

TVline now has them in it's Flash gallery: https://tvline.com/gallery/the-flash-season-5-photos/

----

5.11 and 5.12 are the episodes that people were actually talking about, so I have slightly higher expectations. I hope they pull it together for these middle episodes.

One promo photo showed Peekaboo, but isn't she supposed to be in prison? She was caught last season.

[SimoneS]

25 minutes ago, Trini said:

One promo photo showed Peekaboo, but isn't she supposed to be in prison? She was caught last season.

I wonder if Peekaboo will be one of the young rogues they are assembling.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I wonder if Peekaboo will be one of the young rogues they are assembling.

That'd be cool, because I like Peekaboo. I have a feeling she won't be because so far it looks like they want to use all new characters for the team.

[SevenStars]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

That'd be cool, because I like Peekaboo. I have a feeling she won't be because so far it looks like they want to use all new characters for the team.

I agree. I hope I'm wrong but I think they are just getting her out so Cicada can have a meta to kill off that week.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, SevenStars said:

I agree. I hope I'm wrong but I think they are just getting her out so Cicada can have a meta to kill off that week.

Ugh. I had not considered this possibility, but you are probably right. I don't like that at all. There are so many worse metas that they could choose from. 

[Trini]

5 hours ago, SevenStars said:

I agree. I hope I'm wrong but I think they are just getting her out so Cicada can have a meta to kill off that week.

I don't know if she's going to be killed also, but he is already going to be killing off another black, female meta. You can see it in one of the trailers.

[Trini]

Worth noting that this week's episode is rated 'TV-14', so someone's getting stabbed pretty badly.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

Promo photos for 5.12, "Memorabilia":

Boys night out and Cisco gets a date?

So Sherloque obviously brought this in to spy on Nora, right?

[SimoneS]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:11 PM, Trini said:

Worth noting that this week's episode is rated 'TV-14', so someone's getting stabbed pretty badly.

 

You were right. We even got blood from the woman meta and Cicada when they were stabbed.

I am dreading this episode. I think that it is going to end with Iris beating herself up all over again about how she raised Nora. Ugh. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

Quote

... Seeing his daughter get injured in that way, it really sparks a side of Barry that he doesn't like to bring out and it really speaks to Barry and Iris' relationship.

One of the great things about them is that when one person becomes a little unhinged, the other is there to talk them down, and so, it just speaks to their relationship. When they see their daughter [get hurt], it both brings them closer together, but it also puts them in a position where they have to react in a way that they've never had to before.

Ugh - you suck at these teases, Todd. This is not what happened.

I'm still looking forward to the future scenes in the next episode, but I'm lowering my expectations.

[Starry]

LOL, so I wasn't mis-remembering it. That's not how it played out. At all. Nora got to be Barry's emotional anchor. I really dislike how Iris has been sidelined and under-utilized since 5x07. These scenes that get re-written to sideline her even more add to my disappointment.

[phoenics]

11 hours ago, Trini said:

Ugh - you suck at these teases, Todd. This is not what happened.

I'm still looking forward to the future scenes in the next episode, but I'm lowering my expectations.

They probably cut the scenes.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, phoenics said:

They probably cut the scenes.

But Helbing would know that, though. So he was still teasing stuff that he knew wasn't in the episode.

[phoenics]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

But Helbing would know that, though. So he was still teasing stuff that he knew wasn't in the episode.

This happens all the time.  Grant has given interviews where he mentions stuff that was cut from the episode.  Pretty sure Helbing has too.

[adora721]

Found this linked on Tumblr; it's speculates that 

The doctor is keeping Grace in an induced coma to keep Orlin angry and vengeful.

"Dr. Ambres understands what motivates Cicada. His niece's coma is what keeps him angry at the metahumans. If Grace were to wake up, Cicada could potentially be convinced by his niece to let go of his hate and move on with his (and their) life. If Cicada killing the metahumans is what Dr. Ambres wants, then the best way for her to make that happen is to make sure Grace never wakes up. Dr. Ambres could be intentionally inducing the coma so Grace never awakens and Cicada keeps on doing her dirty work without even realizing it. Cicada believes Dr. Ambres is helping him by patching up his wounds and keeping his secret from the police, while also taking care of Grace, but Dr. Ambres may actually be covering up for him so that no one gets in his way."

I like the theory.

[phoenics]

I like that theory too - but what's Dr. Ambres' motive?

[SimoneS]

I think it is pretty clear that Ambres is manipulating Cicada. I wouldn't be surprised if someone she loved was killed by a meta. Cicada annoys me and his vigilantism is out of control, but honestly, I think a lot of the meta-villains have had it coming. They have murdered, maimed, and wrecked havoc on Central City and even when they are caught, they always break out of prison. It isn't surprising that people like that cop try to get justice on their own when the judicial system constantly fails them. 

[scarynikki12]

Flash spoilers do not need to be tagged in spoiler friendly threads.

[BeautifulFlower]

5.14 description

"IRIS’S LIFE IS THREATENED — After Iris (Candice Patton) lands in serious danger, Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy) races to save her mother. Barry (Grant Gustin) puts the finishing touches on the metahuman cure, leaving Cisco (Carlos Valdes) with a rare night off so he decides to take Kamilla (guest star Victoria Park) on a date. Rachel Talalay directed the episode written by Todd Helbing & Jeff Hersh (#514). Original airdate 2/12/2019."
 

[BeautifulFlower]

Maybe the episode will different be from the synopsis. Because I don't believe for a second Barry will work on the cure instead of rescuing Iris.

[ruby24]

36 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Maybe the episode will different be from the synopsis. Because I don't believe for a second Barry will work on the cure instead of rescuing Iris.

I wouldn't count on it. Pretty sure this is the episode Grant was absent from filming most of because of his "wedding," so don't get your hopes up. Also how absurd that the writers would choose to accommodate his absence by having Barry be sidelined in an episode where Iris's life is in danger? After a whole season of pretty much zero romance between them? 

That's fucked up. The plot should have been something else.

[SimoneS]

I noticed that Helbing wrote the episode so my fingers are crossed that he gives Iris and Nora good scenes. I look forward to Cisco going on a date. He deserves some happiness, especially if Gypsy is never returning. 

As for that meta-cure that the show is conveniently inventing after five years, you just know it is all going to go wrong. Either it is going backfire like the various "cures" on the X-Men or ARGUS is going to get its hands on it. I am leaning more towards ARGUS with Lila coming for a guest role.

Edited January 26, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I noticed that Helbing wrote the episode so my fingers are crossed that he gives Iris and Nora good scenes. I look forward to Cisco going on a date. He deserves some happiness, especially if Gypsy is never returning. 

As for that meta-cure that the show is conveniently inventing after five years, you just know it is all going to go wrong. Either it is going backfire like the various "cures" on the X-Men or ARGUS is going to get its hands on it. I am leaning more towards ARGUS with Lila coming for a guest role.

The actress was in Vancouver filming for The Flash, but that was probably for the King Shark and Grodd episode

[Starry]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I wouldn't count on it. Pretty sure this is the episode Grant was absent from filming most of because of his "wedding," so don't get your hopes up. Also how absurd that the writers would choose to accommodate his absence by having Barry be sidelined in an episode where Iris's life is in danger? After a whole season of pretty much zero romance between them?

For s3 and s4 they filmed one half of episode 14 before the Christmas hiatus and one half after. Maybe they filmed Grant's scenes after they came back from the break.

If this were any other season I would be more optimistic. Considering they changed Iris' role in 5x11 and from 5x06 going forward all the WA scenes have been nothing more than forgettable breadcrumbs I am not expecting Barry to have a logical, passionate reaction to his wife's life being at risk.

I wonder if Nora will keep Barry in the dark so she can prove her worth and solve the situation all on her own. Given how reckless and impulsive she has proven to be I wouldn't put it past her.

 

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

That's fucked up. The plot should have been something else.

This would have been the perfect time to give Caitlin/KF a meatier plot. Instead they wasted screen time on her nonsensical drama in an episode that was supposed to focus on Nora's injury and Barry and Iris' reaction to it. These writers...

[SimoneS]

As long as they come up with a plausible reason for Barry not going to help Iris, I can deal. With any luck, Iris saves herself like she has done before.