The Writers of OUAT: Because, Um, Magic, That's Why

[Curio]

I doubt Adam has ever made any phone calls. That fan probably overreacted to a tweet where he said something snarky like, "Sorry, can't properly respond with only 140 characters. Would be happy to give you a call to discuss further" without any intention of ever calling this random person.

[superloislane]

6 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

 

Kylo Ren was such a weak villain. It was a combination of poor writing and poor acting, IMO. Star Wars has a history of villain-apologizing though. Padme was claiming there was still good in Anakin even after being nearly choked to death by him while pregnant. 

 

I absolutely loved Kylo Ren and thought the acting was brilliant! I thought he was one of the best things about that movie. And I don't really get any villain apologizing for him because it's only his mother saying there's still light in him which is understandable. His father pretty much says he's a lost cause and that there's too much Vader in him and he only tries to reason with him because a) he's his son and b) Leia asked Han to bring him back if he could. No other character acts this way towards him though. I thought there was far more villain apologizing for Vader. Also it is a well known fact that Harrison Ford wanted Han to die in Empire so I'd say he still felt the same for this film.

(Sorry I just really love this movie)

[Mathius]

5 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

It's interesting, because I don't recall the original three movies (IV-VI) being this way with Darth Vader.

VI kind of was with Luke, remember?  He too had the "there's still good in him" thing going (and was proven right about it.)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, Mathius said:

VI kind of was with Luke, remember?  He too had the "there's still good in him" thing going (and was proven right about it.)

Yeah, I think Luke did do that a little.  Granted, it's been awhile since I saw the movies.  But weren't both Yoda and Obi Wan pretty much 'he's a lost cause'?  And - to bring this back on topic - at least it wasn't three full movies of "but he's got a good heart!" like we've endured 6 years of Belle saying about Rumple.  :)  Not to mention, no one else on OUAT bothers to contradict Belle when she says it.  

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, Curio said:

I doubt Adam has ever made any phone calls. That fan probably overreacted to a tweet where he said something snarky like, "Sorry, can't properly respond with only 140 characters. Would be happy to give you a call to discuss further" without any intention of ever calling this random person.

Unless maybe he was trying to get a phone number to identify the person for the restraining order (since they used some standard SQ rhetoric in the rest of that post, there were possibly some pretty wild accusations about supporting rape culture and being anti-gay because they weren't putting Emma and Regina together).

As for the villain sympathy, I happen to believe that anyone who thinks that good people are automatically boring suffers from a failure of imagination. Then again, "failure of imagination" is probably what should go on this show's tombstone, which is funny given how imaginative the premise is. It's just in developing anything beyond the premise that they show such a lack of imagination. They don't have the focus to think about a character, relationship, or situation to mine anything clever out of it, so they just go with the obvious and superficial.

And Darth Vader was never that interesting a character. He barely even does anything in the first movie. He's basically a henchman. He just happens to have a cool costume that gives him an air of mystery, and he talks like James Earl Jones. There's not really any "there" there. On paper, without the costume and the voice, there's nothing much to the character, certainly no depth at all.

[Camera One]

Adam cleaned house on his tweets again.  It's like Rumple with his clean slate.

[janett snakehole]

I didn't think it was super likely Adam actually talked to someone over the phone, but I wouldn't put it past him to make some sort of offer. He has an odd desire to engage with a certain subset of fans who continually criticize him for the same things. I thought it was pretty funny how fandom shenanigans mentioned on a board from a different show would have some connection to fandom shenanigans for this one. 

It is interesting that interactions with Adam gave this person contributed to their idea that continually tweeting to writers can change the direction of a show. 

As far as Adam's tweets, at a certain point, if he's just gonna delete them, why does he even bother?

[Free]

25 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Adam cleaned house on his tweets again.  It's like Rumple with his clean slate.

He does the same thing with his villains.

[Kktjones]

44 minutes ago, janett snakehole said:

As far as Adam's tweets, at a certain point, if he's just gonna delete them, why does he even bother?

To start, I just want to say I absolutely HATE the way Adam acts on Twitter and I think that probably 95% of the fandom drama can be attributed back to him being on Twitter - both the things he says and that he provides an avenue for people to vent, tattle-tale on each other, etc. That said, I don't have a problem with him deleting tweets. He has said a number of times that he knows people screen shot them and he's fine with that. He stands behind his tweets. However, he wants to keep his feed clear so that when people visit it they see his script teases, title spoilers, etc. instead of his discussions with fans. In one case I recall him responding to a SQ fan who said that it looked like Hook was raping Emma in the first sneak peek from 6x01. He responded that it was not remotely true, but also that he would be deleting his tweet as he didn't want to draw attention to the original claim. Anyway, I wish that he would delete his account or just post his script teases and stay out of the fandom drama.

As for the phone call, there is only one time I remember hearing about a possible call between Adam and a fan. It was right around the time of Comic Con between seasons 2 & 3. At SDCC fan asked the panel if SQ was intentional and Eddy pretty much shot them down. There was a meltdown of epic proportion on Twitter and Adam spent hours and hours responding to SQ fans. At one point I think he may have made an offer to talk to one of the SQ "leaders" that was up in arms. I don't think the call ever happened. It is interesting to think back on that and recall that the show creators told them in no uncertain terms that they were NOT writing SQ and yet so many of the same fans are still around and still sending hate to Adam on Twitter! 

[Camera One]

I do agree that deleting certain tweets is good if they are drawing attention to negative lies like the stuff about the actor who played Robin.  It's a bit weird when they are deleted when discussing more trivial matters... like his last few reply tweets were people asking about the show's future, telling them they were only speculating.  So it gives the impression (maybe false impression) that he doesn't want his replies to remain as a permanent record (like the recent one where he said he knew nothing).

Quote

 However, he wants to keep his feed clear so that when people visit it they see his script teases, title spoilers, etc. instead of his discussions with fans.

On the Twitter page, it is only possible to see his discussion with fans if someone clicks the "Tweets and Replies" tab in the middle.  His main page only shows the stuff he posts directly, like the script teases, title spoilers, etc., so it remains clear.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Camera One

[orza]

I see nothing wrong with Adam regularly cleaning house. Almost all of what is posted on Twitter by everyone is only relevant for a few hours or maybe a day, after that no one cares who said what. The majority of what is tweeted by anyone probably has no value whatsoever.

Adam also follows people not connected to the show, replies to their tweets and they reply to them. If he wants to improve the signal to noise ratio on his feed by deleting unimportant tweets so he and others can find what he considers important then good for him. It's just Twitter, not the congressional record. If people are annoyed by Adam's posting habits on Twitter, the fix is simple - stop following him.

[Souris]

Adam was searching "Adam Eddy" on Twitter again -- he replied to yet another fan's untagged tweet. Honestly, he has issues. Do other producers troll untagged tweets to start drama?

[Camera One]

He also thanked someone who said "Regina is the most amazing character".

[daxx]

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

He also thanked someone who said "Regina is the most amazing character".

Of course he did, not that's it's hard to find a complimentary post about any particular character.

[Camera One]

He is spreading the love with lots of thank you's today.  But this tweet exchange... 

gabby‏ @regalparrillas  @AdamHorowitzLA well since you asked, myself along with many others would love to see a hug between emma and regina, closure for regina-

gabby‏ @regalparrillas  @AdamHorowitzLA -and robin and some really great scenes of regina with henry and snow. just suggestions but we also deserve these as fans.

Adam Horowitz  @AdamHorowitzLA

@regalparrillas thanks for feedback

[Mathius]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

and some really great scenes of regina with henry and snow. just suggestions but we also deserve these as fans.

Really?  You don't have enough of those already?  You "deserve" MORE!?

[Camera One]

Niamh  ‏ @NiamhLoveCS  
@AdamHorowitzLA @taupetopher Hey Adam! Are you still hoping to do another season of OUAT?

Adam Horowitz‏  @AdamHorowitzLA
@NiamhLoveCS @taupetopher sure am hoping to do many more!

-----------

Not just one more... MANY more.  Season 10 for the win!

Edited March 2, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Lolol

[KingOfHearts]

7A: Lion King, 7B: Moana, 8A: Wonderland, 8B: Tarzan Meets Hunchback of Notre Dame Meets Pocahontas, 9A: Mulan, 9B: The Holiday Legends of Darkness, 10A: Tron...

26A: Land of Unfinished Fanfiction

[sharky]

So 8A will just be ABC rerunning OUAT in Wonderland. Ok. 

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, sharky said:

So 8A will just be ABC rerunning OUAT in Wonderland. Ok. 

Yeah, and in 8B, Frollo, Clayton, and Ratcliffe will start with their own villain clique. The New World Ne'er-do-Wells. 

I'm rewatching S1 with some friends. Back then, the characters in EF used more colorful and archaic wording to keep it timeless. Words such as, "bereft", "awash". Four seasons later, Elsa says "dating" and the most Rumple can come up with is "cleave".

Edited March 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

A&E continue to say conflicting things. Shock!

Quote

TVLINE | Has seeing Emma live a princess’ life been on your “to-do” list?

KITSIS | We always got asked, “What would happen if Emma grew up without the curse?” So we thought it would be fun to see what would happen if Emma grew up in a place where there was no longer fighting, and we see that Bandit Snow and Charming now have become the overprotective parents who wouldn’t let their daughter get near anything. [Laughs] That was kind of the impetus for why Emma was the singing princess, the princess who had never seen a sword before. That was the idea we wanted to create, and then have Emma be able to see it, because while it is very much human nature to say “the grass is greener,” what you realize is that though the grass may seem greener, the truth is that what you’ve gone through is what makes you you.

Adam said on Twitter after people objected to this presentation of Snowing as parents that it wasn't actually what would have happened, that it was a crazy wish world. But now, Eddy says it is what would have happened.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Souris

[Curio]

A&E clearly didn't expect the amount of backlash they got over the Wish Realm. I think they assumed everyone would accept it as a funny gag, but they didn't realize how many of us actually wanted to see a serious version of the Wish Realm. Their problem is that they don't take the show or the characters' actions very seriously, but at the same time they want us to take the darker moments seriously. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

Also, they took a huge leap of logic to go from "Emma isn't the Savior" to "Emma must have grown up in a realm where there are zero villains and zero problems and she's never seen a sword before." There's suspension of disbelief, and then there's just idiocy. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Curio

[Souris]

I think Adam says on Twitter whatever will placate people at that moment, whether it's true or not.

[Curio]

Quote

That was kind of the impetus for why Emma was the singing princess, the princess who had never seen a sword before.

But Emma grew up seeing swords! Henry was training to be a knight using a sword! Neal had a heroic portrait hanging on the wall where he's posing with a sword! Her parents had a statue where Charming was holding a sword! The lack of logic, it burns!

[Rumsy4]

30 minutes ago, Curio said:

But Emma grew up seeing swords! Henry was training to be a knight using a sword! Neal had a heroic portrait hanging on the wall where he's posing with a sword! Her parents had a statue where Charming was holding a sword! 

I guess Snowing are very misogynistic then. The EQ is the feminist icon. Without her to challenge them, Snow and David become patriarchal and sexist rulers. They bring up their daughter to be a grown woman-child, and their grandson to be a knight. 

[KingOfHearts]

I bit the bullet and watched the A&E Facebook Q/A. You're welcome.

Quote

Are there any characters or stories on Once Upon a Time that you wish you had written differently?
Eddy: "Well, I think that's the part of creativity. There's always a few roads you go down, you pick one, and you carry on the journey. You always want to go back in time and sometimes you think you can improve things or not. [sic] You're always rewriting until it's shot, and I think at some point you just have to let it go and hope you did the best." 

Adam: "That's a great answer, Eddy."

He didn't answer the question. Is Eddy secretly a politician?

Quote

Will there be a Season 7?
Eddy: "Well, I can tell you we are asking the same question. We're waiting like you are by the phone. Listen - we have plans for a season seven. We have exciting plans for a season seven. You just got to let ABC know you want to see it. If not, you know, this could be the last year."

Quote

What kinds of plots do you like to write best? Are there any of the characters easier or better to write for than others?
Adam: "You know, our approach isn't so much about the plot, as much as it is about the characters. So, we love all the characters. Each week when we approach an episode, we usually think about it from the perspective of 'Which character's story are telling this week?', be it flashback or whatever, and, 'What's going on with them?' The plot usually grows out of that. It starts with what's most interesting or exciting about the characters. They all excite us, and that's what's fun about doing the show, going into each and every one of them."

LOL. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

Translation for Adam. We always start with what story will best serve the EQ or if we want to switch it up Regina then decide where to go.

[sharky]

I know you're joking about the EQ, but I find the truth actually more frustrating than the "Evil Queen All the Time" jokes. I think it was here where someone posted a piece where Adam or Eddy said that they do the flashback first and then build the rest of the story around the flashback. So rather than having the show be the present story as the A story and the flashback to prop up the A story, it's the flashback as the A story and then the plot propping it up. But most fans don't view Once as a show told in flashbacks. And there's a reason for that: it's a bad way to tell the story of the characters. Who cares about what a character did in the past if you're not telling the more dynamic story of what they're doing now?

Edited March 3, 2017 by sharky

[Rumsy4]

Yes. There was a recent article where they spoke about writing flashbacks first.

21 minutes ago, sharky said:

So rather than having the show be the present story as the A story and the flashback to prop up the A story, it's the flashback as the A story and then the plot propping it up.

I wonder what the thought-process was for the episode where Regina put a Sleeping Curse on Snow's horse. This makes me think even less of A&E's writing process than before. 

[Shanna Marie]

Quote

"You know, our approach isn't so much about the plot, as much as it is about the characters. So, we love all the characters. Each week when we approach an episode, we usually think about it from the perspective of 'Which character's story are telling this week?', be it flashback or whatever, and, 'What's going on with them?' The plot usually grows out of that.

This explains the terrible plotting. They don't have a story and then figure out how it affects the characters. They write one character at a time, focusing on what they want to say about that character, and it may or may not fit into the overall story arc or make sense in the context of that character over time. It's like "what would be surprising to discover about this character's past?" and they write a flashback with that surprise, then shoehorn a present-day storyline that parallels it into the current plot arc. That's why there's no overall plan or progress toward a goal.

That would be how we got the bizarre Hook story in 6A -- they wanted to show Hook's conflict with Liam 2.0 in the past, so he had to have a conflict with Henry in the present. Never mind that there's never been any real conflict between Hook and Henry. But that doesn't matter because it's a shocking surprise that Liam ended up with Nemo and tried to kill Hook in the past, and now he's come back to finish the job.

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, Souris said:

Adam said on Twitter after people objected to this presentation of Snowing as parents that it wasn't actually what would have happened, that it was a crazy wish world. But now, Eddy says it is what would have happened.

That is astounding how Adam was arguing with so many people about this point and Eddy says the exact opposite.  

Quote

EDDY: So we thought it would be fun to see what would happen if Emma grew up in a place where there was no longer fighting, and we see that Bandit Snow and Charming now have become the overprotective parents who wouldn’t let their daughter get near anything. [Laughs]

So making Snowing and Emma seem like complete idiots was pretty much the plan all along, eh?

Quote

EDDY:  while it is very much human nature to say “the grass is greener,” what you realize is that though the grass may seem greener, the truth is that what you’ve gone through is what makes you you.

Basically, the grass isn't greener if the Curse hasn't occurred, and Emma and Snowing should probably buy Regina a gift basket or something, since thank goodness she cast the curse and tried to exterminate their entire family.

Quote

EDDY: You're always rewriting until it's shot, and I think at some point you just have to let it go and hope you did the best."

ALWAYS?  Right up until it's shot?

Quote

EDDY:  we have plans for a season seven. We have exciting plans for a season seven. .

It's always exciting, isn't it?

Quote

ADAM: be it flashback or whatever

No wonder the Storybrooke current-day plot is usually so bad, because it's considered "whatever".

Quote

ADAM: The plot usually grows out of that. It starts with what's most interesting or exciting about the characters.

Is that why every character's episodes tend to be so repetitive?  Because what's "most interesting" about the character are always the same?  Emma = WALLS, Hook = regrets, Belle = trying to decide if Rumple is dark or light today, Rumple = how to squeeze out that sadface, Regina = how life is giving her lemons again, Snow = how to pretend sewer water is lemonade, David = the complexities of having no purpose, etc.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It's always exciting, isn't it?

It's going to be huuuuuuge.

Quote

Emma = WALLS, Hook = regrets, Belle = trying to decide if Rumple is dark or light today, Rumple = how to squeeze out that sadface, Regina = how life is giving her lemons again, Snow = how to pretend sewer water is lemonade, David = the complexities of having no purpose, etc.

That is a very honest TV Guide description.

Quote

This explains the terrible plotting. They don't have a story and then figure out how it affects the characters. They write one character at a time, focusing on what they want to say about that character, and it may or may not fit into the overall story arc or make sense in the context of that character over time. It's like "what would be surprising to discover about this character's past?" and they write a flashback with that surprise, then shoehorn a present-day storyline that parallels it into the current plot arc. That's why there's no overall plan or progress toward a goal.

You know, it's funny. We always complain about plot over characters, but a good plot should utilize them. It's not like A&E are writing these big, great plots that are overshadowing the characters, but even the plots are bad. Nothing flows because the writers are looking at things episode to episode. They're not arc-aware, let alone long-term-aware. They have very basic ideas of what the characters should be doing, and they never challenge them. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

This is from one of the spoilery articles that came out, but it's not a spoiler since Robin's appearance was the cliffhanger for the finale. Bolding is mine.

Quote

Interviewer: Robin Hood is back! You took a lot of time to explain that Robin Hood was definitely dead. What made you want to bring him back?

Horowitz: This is a story idea that we had for a while and we were very excited about it. We were very excited that Sean liked it too and agreed to come back. There was more we wanted to explore with Regina and this felt like a really good vehicle.

The question is about Robin Hood. Notice the answer is about Regina. No surprise that Robin is only back as a prop because these writers have zero interest in actually exploring the character of Robin or the Outlaw Queen relationship in general. It's all about Regina.  Eddy responded in further detail, but his response could be construed as spoilery, so I won't quote it. No surprise though that it is also all about Regina.

Edited March 4, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Ha, Robin is a vehicle.  I guess that's a step up from prop?  

If they didn't want to "explore" this when Robin was alive, why is it so important to explore it now?  If that is actually the case, the proof should be in 6B.  I'm not holding my breath.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Ha, Robin is a vehicle.  I guess that's a step up from prop?  

If they didn't want to "explore" this when Robin was alive, why is it so important to explore it now?  If that is actually the case, the proof should be in 6B.  I'm not holding my breath.

Exactly, they had plenty two seasons he was on the show and they didn't. 5B when you'd think they'd have given him more to do before he died he spent it in the woods taking care of his daughter.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

"What if the Evil Queen could get her happy ending in our world?" The entire show was conceived from this thought, according to A&E. Because everything revolves around that, time and plot has to be allocated for it.

You know, this right here is the main problem with the series. Not the "what if" of the evil queen getting a happy ending, but with the fact that this isn't really a plot or a story concept. There's no inherent conflict in it. It would take a lot of development to turn it into a story, and they haven't done that, and the way they have developed the story actually works counter to this premise.

The idea that our world has more shades of gray, so it's a place where villains might be able to find some kind of redemption and happiness, unlike the black-and-white fairy tale world where you're either a hero or villain, might have been interesting to explore, but then they made Regina even more evil than any fairy tale version of the evil queen, and they continued with the heroes or villains idea in Storybrooke, so there's nothing to the story about how the Evil Queen could get a happy ending in our world, since there's no real difference in that respect between our world and the fairy tale world. Or they could have even made some kind of statement about how this is the world where the villains win and are in power, and being good and righteous doesn't put you on the winning side, so she has more of a fighting chance to come out on top as a villain.

There might have been inherent conflict if Regina really acted like getting a happy ending was a goal, with her doing something toward reaching that goal and with obstacles to overcome, but all that really happens is Regina talking about wanting a happy ending as though it's something she deserves without her ever actually defining what that is or really doing anything toward getting it, other than casting the curse and searching for the Author. If she doesn't know what she wants, it's hard for her to go after it. She just keeps going after big magical solutions but remains unhappy. Meanwhile, nothing really is getting in her way. Her former victims all want her to have a happy ending. The villains she goes up against are after their own thing and don't care whether or not Regina gets a happy ending. Plus, there's the problem that the audience has already figured out the bit where you write your own happy ending.

For there to be a real story in their premise, they'd have either had to do some worldbuilding and depict our world as a place where villains can win, as opposed to the fairy tale world where heroes have a magical unfair advantage, or they'd have had to really shape the story around Regina's quest, and I don't think that works with her as a hero. You can't really have a good-guy hero whose driving force in life is her own happiness. They'd have had to do that with her as an anti-hero -- a villain in a protagonist role. Otherwise, maybe they could have taken the approach of Richard on Galavant, where he goes from being a villain to a hero's sidekick, and he gradually has his eyes opened from hanging around with the heroes. The Evil Queen watching the heroes and trying to figure out how they find happiness might have been interesting, but it would have needed to happen on the edges of the heroes actually doing stuff. "Happy ending" is just too vague to be any kind of story goal. It should be a byproduct of going after and achieving something else, and once she quit trying to murder Snow, there hasn't been anything other than that vague happy ending that Regina has put much effort into going for.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

The idea that our world has more shades of gray, so it's a place where villains might be able to find some kind of redemption and happiness, unlike the black-and-white fairy tale world where you're either a hero or villain, might have been interesting to explore, but then they made Regina even more evil than any fairy tale version of the evil queen, and they continued with the heroes or villains idea in Storybrooke, so there's nothing to the story about how the Evil Queen could get a happy ending in our world, since there's no real difference in that respect between our world and the fairy tale world. 

This would work better if the Enchanted Forest was more akin to the Wish Realm or Andalasia from Enchanted, where everything is "perfect" and villains always lose. The writers have tried to paint this with the Author crap, but in actuality, the heroes and villains have won at different times. The Curse was not the only instance where a villain finally had true victory. It was framed like it was per Rumple's manipulations against Regina, but it really wasn't. 

Quote

 "Happy ending" is just too vague to be any kind of story goal.

And this brings me to my next point - there's no happy ending if the winning ball is constantly tossed between the hero and villain courts. If Regina lost one day, she'd win another. There has never been an end-all-be-all "ending" for anyone, except maybe a few guest characters.

You can't pull for a character if you know they're not willing to make sacrifices to get what they want. Regina always waits for her happiness to fall out of the sky. Her definition of effort is refraining from murder. She doesn't go on a quest to redeem herself, like Angel or Xena. Protagonists have to do something proactive. They need a hunger to drive them towards a goal. How do you root for someone when they're not trying to do anything? In S4, she did want to find the Author, but that was relatively short-lived. Beyond sticking her nose in a book, she really didn't do squat. In the end, she decided not to do it anyway. It didn't help that it was all asinine to begin with.

At least when Disney characters want something vague, like seeing the world, it's something relatable. Killing thousands and then demanding happiness is not easy to identify with.

Edited March 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Ha!  I think we ALL knew that Adam was going to deny that what he said and what Eddy said about the Wish Realm contradicted.

He will delete this in a few days for sure.

Cam‏ @camthenorwegian  
@AdamHorowitzLA I thought you said the wishworld wasn't what would have happened if Snow & Charming raised Emma - now you're saying it is???

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA  
@camthenorwegian nope. I didn't change what I said before

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA
@camthenorwegian the wish world is NOT an alt history. It's a "be careful what you wish for"

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA
@camthenorwegian s/c would've been great parents

Cam‏ @camthenorwegian
@AdamHorowitzLA Well, I think so too, and I found the idea that they wouldn't rather offputting. So please don't delete this tweet?

Adam Horowitz‏ @AdamHorowitzLA
@camthenorwegian it's public record in NUMEROUS interviews i gave this week. Not sure where you got the opposite idea

Edited March 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Just in time.  Adam deleted all those tweets already.

[KingOfHearts]

Adam is a big fan of alternative facts. I guess his interviews were fake news.

Edited March 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Kktjones]

Gee, I wonder why people are confused. Here's a quote from Eddy from the TVLine article:

KITSIS | We always got asked, “What would happen if Emma grew up without the curse?” So we thought it would be fun to see what would happen if Emma grew up in a place where there was no longer fighting, and we see that Bandit Snow and Charming now have become the overprotective parents who wouldn’t let their daughter get near anything. [Laughs] That was kind of the impetus for why Emma was the singing princess, the princess who had never seen a sword before. That was the idea we wanted to create, and then have Emma be able to see it, because while it is very much human nature to say “the grass is greener,” what you realize is that though the grass may seem greener, the truth is that what you’ve gone through is what makes you you.

And here's a quote from Adam in the ohmydisney interview:

AH: We’re going to be seeing Pinocchio; August. As you remember, this Wish Realm is what would have happened if the curse never happened. So people age. We are going to see what a very old Hook looks like. And it’s not just what would have happened if the curse wasn’t cast, it’s also kind of the worst-case-scenario in a “be careful what you wish for” story. So Emma’s reality is warped in ways that she’s going to have difficulty adjusting to.

Every answer is confusing and contradicts things they said in other interviews. This wish world is such an incredible cluster*ck, I just can't wait to put it behind us and move on to the Captain Charming episode next week.

[Camera One]

Interesting that in the ohmydisney interview, he tries to have it both ways.  It's "what would have happened if the curse never happened" AND it's "not just what would have happened if the curse wasn't cast".  So he's not contradicting himself because now he has said both.  He really should become a politician.

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Interesting that in the ohmydisney interview, he tries to have it both ways.  It's "what would have happened if the curse never happened" AND it's "not just what would have happened if the curse wasn't cast".  So he's not contradicting himself because now he has said both.  He really should become a politician.

To quote Emma, it's "real or fake or whatever".

[Free]

11 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

To quote Emma, it's "real or fake or whatever".

Or whatever sounds about right.

[Shanna Marie]

On 3/4/2017 at 1:24 PM, KingOfHearts said:

This would work better if the Enchanted Forest was more akin to the Wish Realm or Andalasia from Enchanted, where everything is "perfect" and villains always lose. The writers have tried to paint this with the Author crap, but in actuality, the heroes and villains have won at different times. The Curse was not the only instance where a villain finally had true victory. It was framed like it was per Rumple's manipulations against Regina, but it really wasn't. 

That's a big part of the problem with that "the place where the Evil Queen can have a happy ending" premise the way they've executed it. The Enchanted Forest world doesn't seem to work like a magical fairytale realm where heroes always miraculously win, no matter how overpowered the villains are -- even if that's the way everyone acts, with the heroes talking about hope and there being a better way and everyone talking about how villains don't get happy endings. From what we've seen, the villains haven't done so badly in the fairytale world. For the most part, they've been ruling the place. They all end up losing in our world.

Some of that has to do with the structure of the show, since the fairytale world is the past, so the villains have to survive that part in order to be around in the present, and then they have to be defeated in the present in Storybrooke. But the villains aren't defeated by "real world" means, like following clues, coming up with a plan and being smarter or stronger, or pulling together as a team that combines their strengths (oddly, the one time they've done that was in Neverland -- a storybook world). Instead, the heroes win in Storybrooke by the kind of magical, miraculous means you'd expect in a fairytale world. We've had the magical power of love and sacrifice out of love -- season one (TLK), 3A (Rumple's sacrifice), 4A (Anna reaching Ingrid with love), 4B (Emma's sacrifice with the Darkness), 5A (Hook's sacrifice removing the Darkness). We've had previously unknown or new magical powers miraculously appearing at the right time -- season 2 (Emma being able to help stop the failsafe in spite of not having really used her powers before), 3B (Regina, who's never been more powerful than Zelena or using light magic suddenly having the most powerful light magic). And we've had just the right magical object be there at just the right time to save the day -- 2B (the magic candle that saved Rumple), 4A (Anna's necklace, the gauntlet), 5B (the Olympian crystal). We've even had the power of belief generate magic in the middle of New York City.

Which makes you wonder what it is about this world that's supposed to be able to give the Evil Queen a happy ending. Everything she's had in Storybrooke, she could have had in the Enchanted Forest. The thing that's changed is her behavior.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Shanna Marie
spelling is our friend

[tri4335]

So several months ago, I listened to a podcast with the Modern Family writers - I think it was Fresh Air but can't be positive. But anyways, one of the main points the writers made because they got this all the time from fans is that sitcom characters have no growth. They were very clear that even within an episode the character may learn the lesson and have growth but that growth would not be maintained across to the next episodes. That was what made it a sitcom! For there to be character growth and development, it wouldn't be a sitcom but another genre like drama. 

I've been thinking about that interview in relation to OUAT and I think this is part of A & E's problem. They don't know the type of genre they are writing and thus use rules from several which makes it a hot mess. Last night's episode is the perfect example. In itself it had good dialogue, chemistry between the actors and was entertaining. But once you try to connect it back to other parts of the story it falls apart and you're left standing there exclaiming "WTF"!  If I use the sitcom lens to evaluate the show, it works much better. The problem is that A & E have sold it as a drama with fantasy elements and under that lens it fails.

Edited March 6, 2017 by tri4335
fixing typos

[Camera One]

Yes, I'm not sure how many times Emma has learned the same lesson now.  She spent the entirety of 6A dealing with the same issue and apparently all it took was a visit with Alt-August.  But she could very well learn the exact same lesson again three episodes from now.  

[Free]

30 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yes, I'm not sure how many times Emma has learned the same lesson now.  She spent the entirety of 6A dealing with the same issue and apparently all it took was a visit with Alt-August.  But she could very well learn the exact same lesson again three episodes from now.  

That only means she and the writers never learned the lesson to begin with.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Yes, I'm not sure how many times Emma has learned the same lesson now.  She spent the entirety of 6A dealing with the same issue and apparently all it took was a visit with Alt-August.  But she could very well learn the exact same lesson again three episodes from now.  

The problem is that Emma's particular lesson of tear down those walls is not particularly entertaining to watch.  Its frustrating when characters keep secrets and don't connect.  The good stuff is after that lesson is learned.  But every time the show gets there they reset.