Small Talk: The Quiver

[SmallScreenDiva]

I actively avoid Melissa George for real. She randomly showed up on Good Wife last season, and I had fannish post-traumatic stress.

 

I heard good things about her show on Cinemax and tried to watch. Promptly turned it off as soon as she came onscreen.

ME TOO! I was so gutted when Angel ended but to this day I find it the most satisfying finale non FNL division I've watched.

 

My friends and I actually had a finale viewing party. Tons of food, drinks. Didn't get touched. We were bawling our eyes out at the end and couldn't speak for days. But yeah, I actually love the way it ended. It was very Angel (and Whedon).

[dtissagirl]

I will watch terribad awful shows [and I do watch A LOT of crap, heh] for actors I like, but I refuse to watch good shows with actors I gratuitously hate.

[AyChihuahua]

I loved both the Angel and BtVS finales. Both had most of the main characters alive and going on to fight another day.

 

RIP Anya and Wesley, though. And Fred.  I love that for all his "can't have 'em happy" philosophy, Whedon left the Scooby Gang intact and alive on BtVS.

 

Aside, but whenever I think about Helpless, the episode in which Buffy loses her powers and has to fight the creepy serial killer vamp with her mind (and she kicked his ASS, and also also that was a REALLY scary episode, for me second only to Hush), then Giles is fired because he loves Buffy like a daughter, I get weepy. One of my all time fave father/child relationships on tv.

I miss Wesley. I miss Alexis. I was damn near inconsolable at the end of Angel (I loved Buffy, but Angel spoke more to me and Wesley was my favorite character).

For me real life intruded too much (in a good way) for me to be super sad about Wesley dying. In-show, he had a pretty awesome heroic death, and out-of-show, he was dating Alyson Hannigan. I knew the whole story about how Alyson Hannigan had had a major crush on him when he was on Buffy, but he wouldn't go out with her because they were on the same show, and she finally got a piece of that cute fake Brit after he left for Angel, and now they're married and have two insanely adorable kids and seem really happy together. 

[jay741982]

ME TOO! I was so gutted when Angel ended but to this day I find it the most satisfying finale non FNL division I've watched.

I hated the Angel finale I HATE when shoes end on a cliffhanger like that

[catrox14]

You know what's weird?  I got so used to hearing Alexis, James Marsters and David Anders be British, that when I hear their real American accents, I'm like WTF IS THIS SHIT?

I hated the Angel finale I HATE when shoes end on a cliffhanger like that

 

I guess I didn't see it as a cliffhanger. We just didn't see when and how they actually died. I just figured they were going down fighting and for Angel it was always about the fight more than the outcome. IMO

Edited January 3, 2016 by catrox14

[jay741982]

You know what's weird?  I got so used to hearing Alexis, James Marsters and David Anders be British, that when I hear their real American accents, I'm like WTF IS THIS SHIT?

 

I guess I didn't see it as a cliffhanger. We just didn't see when and how they actually died. I just figured they were going down fighting and for Angel it was always about the fight more than the outcome. IMO

I get what you are saying regarding Angel finale but I didn't like the cliffhanger at all lol. I was saddened by Wesley dying and Fred Dying earlier in the season killed me :( I hated that they killed Fred

[AyChihuahua]

I guess I didn't see it as a cliffhanger. We just didn't see when and how they actually died. I just figured they were going down fighting and for Angel it was always about the fight more than the outcome. IMO

"If nothing that we do matters, the only thing that matters is what we do."

 

Okay, admittedly it's only a little bit above: "What if C-A-T really spelled DOG?" But I still dug it.

 

Now the Berg (Peter) is on Alias. This show has some great guest stars. The Berg, 007, The Stepfather. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

 

"If nothing that we do matters, the only thing that matters is what we do."

 

Yup. So perfect and I thought that summed up the finale.  That and "I kinda want to slay the dragon...Let's go to work". 

 

I'm getting misty just thinking about it....:(

[AyChihuahua]

Yup. So perfect and I thought that summed up the finale.  That and "I kinda want to slay the dragon...Let's go to work". 

 

I'm getting misty just thinking about it....:(

It was a really good show. I was even okay with the baby, until he instagrew into a gross angsty teen who wanted to bang his sorta-stepmother, because I loved Darla's arc, and I truly loved her dusting herself to let him be born. I found that storyline weirdly affecting.

[catrox14]

I will always defend Connor. That poor kid didn't stand a chance. I didn't really like Cordelia (DON"T YELL AT ME)but I didn't like how they handled that story line.  I loved the "new" Connor. I would have gladly watched a s6 with THAT Connor popping round to help Angel.

Edited January 3, 2016 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

I might be worse. I held a grudge against Supernatural for Angel reasons and refused to watch it. I bitched and moaned about SPN and it's probably untalented pretty boys taking the place of my beloved Wesley Wyndam Price until literally 2 years ago.  I finally gave in and watched as part of a re-watch for a different site.

 

 220+ episodes and multiple re-watches later, I'm pretty much addicted to that fucking show & Dean Winchester is arguably my favorite character in the history of ever and Jensen Ackles deserves all the awards. LOOOOL at me.

I'm the exact opposite re SPN. Watched it from the very first episode, live. Superhot dudes saving people, hunting things...sign me up! I was so totally obsessed all through the first five. Then dumb shit happened, and boring shit happened, and Dean and Sam NEVER CHANGED. They never grew. All supporting characters are killed off, which adds to the claustrophobic feel. The last episode I watched and enjoyed had the Jewish guy and the Golem. Now whenever I try to watch I'm just legit bored. 

 

Dean will always be in my top five tv characters, but his manpain and self-esteem issues got SUPER BORING. Like hey dude, you're Michael the Archangel's chosen vessel and you've saved the world like 5,000 times...maybe get over your daddy/self-esteem issues?

I will always defend Connor. That poor kid didn't stand a chance. I didn't really like Cordelia (DON"T YELL AT ME)but I didn't like how they handled that story line.  I loved the "new" Connor. I would have gladly watched a s6 with THAT Connor popping round to help Angel.

The Connor who thought he'd been raised by normal people? Yeah, he was okay, but only in a couple episodes, and NEVER FORGET that actual Connor wanted to bang his quasi-stepmom. And in fact did bang his quasi-stepmom. Whether one likes or dislikes Cordelia, wanting to bang her when she's basically your stepmom is just nasty.

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Delphi]

How can someone hate Cordy, aside season four which was so bad for her. I loved Cordy so much, she and Doyle were the reasons I watched Angel. I mean I liked Angel but he's a bit meh by himself.

I enjoyed Not Fade Away but honestly by the end of the fifth season, which I rewatch very few episodes of, I had such fatigue with people dying. It was awful.

[Sakura12]

The Connor/Cordy hook up was so gross. That's another instance of introducing a kid that wasn't necessary to introduce. 

 

I liked Cordy on Buffy and the first few seasons of Angel. She wasn't my favorite. Faith was my favorite character on both shows. 

[AyChihuahua]

The Connor/Cordy hook up was so gross. That's another instance of introducing a kid that wasn't necessary to introduce. 

 

I liked Cordy on Buffy and the first few seasons of Angel. She wasn't my favorite. Faith was my favorite character on both shows. 

Buffy Summers is my very favorite tv character ever, but yeah, Faith is also fantastic. The BtVS episode in which they switched bodies really showcased both actresses' acting skills. 

[Starfish35]

Buffy is second on my list, only after Aeryn Sun. :)

I've seen the first two seasons of Angel, a few episodes of the fifth, and the Faith episodes in season four, but that's it. I particularly haven't wanted to watch four because of the grossness of the Connor/Cordy storyline. I loved Cordy though, and I found the Connor character, what little I saw of him, particularly annoying.

[catrox14]

The Connor who thought he'd been raised by normal people? Yeah, he was okay, but only in a couple episodes, and NEVER FORGET that actual Connor wanted to bang his quasi-stepmom. And in fact did bang his quasi-stepmom. Whether one likes or dislikes Cordelia, wanting to bang her when she's basically your stepmom is just nasty.

 

 

 

To be fair, Connor was kind of seduced by "Cordy" and was kind of in a pretty bad predicament. I mean it's not like he grew up to be a normal kid. He came back from Quartoth all fucked up.

 

 

 

How can someone hate Cordy, aside season four which was so bad for her. I loved Cordy so much, she and Doyle were the reasons I watched Angel. I mean I liked Angel but he's a bit meh by himself.

 

 

I didn't say I hated Cordy.  I said I didn't like her. Big difference.

Edited January 3, 2016 by catrox14

[Sakura12]

Faith's episodes on Angel were my favorite episodes. And of course Smile Time. 

 

Eliza Dushku hasn't impressed me much since all I see is Faith in all her characters. She's going to be on Banshee this season I'll see how she does. 

[catrox14]

I didn't like Faith on either Buffy or Angel.  But man did I love me some Illyria and Darla.

[AyChihuahua]

To be fair, Connor was kind of seduced by "Cordy" and was kind of in a pretty bad predicament. I mean it's not like he grew up to be a normal kid. He came back from Quartoth all fucked up.

I hear ya, but at the end of the day, he still wanted to/did bang his stepmom. Oh, and kill an innocent to birth his evil offspring.

Faith's episodes on Angel were my favorite episodes. And of course Smile Time. 

SMILE TIME FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[catrox14]

 

I hear ya, but at the end of the day, he still wanted to/did bang his stepmom. Oh, and kill an innocent to birth his evil offspring.

 

 

RE: killing the offspring. That was all "Cordy's" shenanigans. He was the one trying to NOT do the action. IIRC he was seeing visions of Darla nearly talking him out of it, but then "Cordy's" insistence that compelled him to do it. I'm sorry but I feel like Connor gets a really bad rap. Yeah he did the deed, but "Cordy" really fucked with his heart and mind on that one.

Edited January 3, 2016 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

RE: killing the offspring. That was all "Cordy's" shenanigans. He was the one trying to NOT do the action. IIRC he was seeing visions of Darla nearly talking him out of it, but then "Cordy's" insistence that compelled him to do it. I'm sorry but I feel like Connor gets a really bad rap. Yeah he did the deed, but "Cordy" really fucked with his heart and mind on that one.

In the episode, Darla was the good angel. When he actually killed the woman, who I believe they made a big deal out of being innocent and pure of heart, he knew it was wrong. He knew she was good and killing her was wrong. Killing a good person is pretty much always inexcusable, but Connor did it anyway, because Cordelia, whom he knew at that point was evil, told him to, to birth their maggot-faced offspring.

 

I'm pretty consistent in not caring a whole lot about motivations or issues when someone's doing something objectively evil. Like if someone's stabbing me to death, I really don't care that his/her daddy was mean to him...I care that he's stabbing me to death. Connor had a terrible life, he was totally mindfucked by that guy who was all pissed at Angelus, but he totally knew killing that chick was wrong, and he DID IT ANYWAY. That's on him, not on his daddy issues. 

 

I guess on these shows I end up empathizing with the victim, not the aggressor. It's the same reason I have massive issues with Oliver. Imagine, in the case of Angel, being the innocent good-hearted woman who's about to be murdered bc some evil goddess chick and her psycho lover want to birth a maggot-faced equally evil goddess. You'd be like, "Hey, Unnamed Angsty Teen, I haven't done anything wrong, so how about not stabbing me in the heart because you have daddy issues?" At that point I really, really don't think the stabbee, would care one iota about the stabber's mental or emotional hangups. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I dunno, I guess I look at as a mitigating circumstance that he was being largely controlled by 'Cordy'.  But I know I part with the conventional wisdom at that point.  What are you gonna do? LOL

 

There is IMO an interesting thing happening in SPN right now that pings a lot of my Jasmine buttons...we'll see what happens. 

[Sakura12]

Smile Time is forever!

 

[AyChihuahua]

I dunno, I guess I look at as a mitigating circumstance that he was being largely controlled by 'Cordy'.  But I know I part with the conventional wisdom at that point.  What are you gonna do? LOL

 

There is IMO an interesting thing happening in SPN right now that pings a lot of my Jasmine buttons...we'll see what happens. 

If he had been mentally controlled, I'd be more okay with it. I don't blame Angel at all for what Angelus did, because Angel was effectively banished from the room against his will while Angelus the Demon had control. But Connor wasn't. He was still 100% Connor. Just Connor with daddy issues. The day that daddy issues allow murder of innocents/good people is the day the justice system gives up the ghost.

Smile Time is forever!

 

Other than Hush it may be my very favorite episode of any television show ever. Imagine the balls it took to get that BSC stuff on tv?!? And not only the idea, but the execution, was fucking brilliant.

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

 

Other than Hush it may be my very favorite episode of any television show ever. Imagine the balls it took to get that BSC stuff on tv?!? And not only the idea, but the execution, was fucking brilliant.

 

 

ALL HAIL BEN EDLUND!  He also wrote the Suicidal Teddy Bear episode of SPN. Man I wish he'd come back to SPN :(

[calliope1975]

ALL HAIL BEN EDLUND!  He also wrote the Suicidal Teddy Bear episode of SPN. Man I wish he'd come back to SPN :(

 

And he's responsible for The Tick. He has a special, twisted, amazingly creative mind.

[AyChihuahua]

Now Baby David Anders is fighting Sydney with a weird weapon. I feel bad for him, because he's TWELVE! Don't pick on the child, Syd!

[BkWurm1]

Maybe I'll just watch 1-2 of Alias, and then the series finale?  And it turns out there really is a supernatural element? That seems entirely unfitting to the show so far (last few episodes of S1).

 

The 100 is one of the best shows on tv, not just on the CW. Except for the weird messiah dude. He's terrible.

Season 1 & 2 of Alias was IMO fantastic and the season finale is on my top ten list for  best ever season finale's.   Don't skip it. It is awesome and painful at the same time.   

 

There is a twist that it actually sounds like you might not have been spoiled for (at least not all of it)  at the VERY end of the season two finale.  If nothing else watch and feel bad for us that couldn't immediately start on season 3.

 

Season three has angst to be sure but I didn't feel that it was badly done, just heavy handed and there was a period of time where I genuinely think the writers wanted the viewers to love Lauren and nope, that never happened so the storyline changed but I enjoyed season three a lot.  Poor Sydney. 

 

My memory gets fuzzy on the details of season four but I remember enjoying the characters even as they went back and forth on if they were good or evil. 

 

I feel I can recommend watching through season 4.  There are certainly some moments in 3 and 4 that should not be missed if you love the characters. 

 

Now, I thought they were going to do something terrible to Vaughn's character in season five that would ruin his characterization and because of it, I did quit at the end of 4 but when I heard it was ok to watch, I bought the DVD's for the fifth season and then watched only the episodes that Vaughn was in (One or two in the beginning and then a handful toward the end) and I was relieved that the characterization assassination didn't actually happen. 

 

 I was happy with the ending.

 

I 've never been interested in watching the episodes I didn't watch of season five but my BFF binged the whole series and loved it all and she's doesn't normally like the action/spy/prophecy type stuff at all. 

 

Binging is a very different experience than the slow slog through the season. I can promise season three for you won't be as painful as it was for me.  TOO much time to worry!!

 

  I have rewatched it since and there are a lot of hurts so good moments that I'm very glad I saw. 

 

 

Melissa George happened.

 

 

Imo, Pretty much, yeah. Turn it off before the ride into the sunset gets ruined by Vaughn being a dumbass jerkface, and you're good.

I don't remember him actually ever being a jerkface, a dumbass at points but within reason for any guy in some extraordinary circumstances, lol. 

 

 

 

I will always defend Connor. That poor kid didn't stand a chance. I didn't really like Cordelia (DON"T YELL AT ME)but I didn't like how they handled that story line.  I loved the "new" Connor. I would have gladly watched a s6 with THAT Connor popping round to help Angel.

I didn't mind Cordelia on Buffy but couldn't stand the Angel/Cordy combo.  Wasn't a huge DB fan either at first.  Something about his neck bugged me but he grew out of it and got hot in the later seasons and once Cord was off Angel, I watched the finale season but mostly because I'd seen bits and pieces in the prior season of Fred and Wesley enough to know how much he adored her and I wanted to see that. 

 

I'd also watched just enough of Buffy to like Spike so I ended up loving the final season of Angel even while it made me bawl my eyes out.  The ending was brutal but even though you know they all died (there was a dragon after all) this is the kind of show where no one has to stay dead. Whendon even figured out a way to bring back Fred in his comics so knowing that was enough for me to assume they all came back somehow. ;)

Edited January 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

I'd also watched just enough of Buffy to like Spike so I ended up loving the final season of Angel even while it made me bawl my eyes out.  The ending was brutal but even though you know they all died (there was a dragon after all) this is the kind of show where no one has to stay dead. Whendon even figured out a way to bring back Fred in his comics so knowing that was enough for me to assume they all came back somehow. ;)

Spike didn't die. Gunn yeah, Angel sure, Ilyria maybe, but not Spike. He's way too much of a survivor not to bug out when he sees the battle can't be won. He'd take out the easily-accessible bad guys and then bug ass out. 

 

How'd they bring back Fred?

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[BkWurm1]

Spike didn't die. Gunn yeah, Angel sure, Ilyria maybe, but not Spike. He's way too much of a survivor not to bug out when he sees the battle can't be won. He'd take out the easily-accessible bad guys and then bug ass out. 

 

How'd they bring back Fred?

From the Wiki:

 

Some time after Illyria's death, Angel encountered what appeared to be Fred walking along a street in Magic Town, London[7]. Talking with Fred as she is assessed by Nadira, Angel determines that Fred was apparently restored by the restoration of magic causing most of the old rules to be 'reset' as things that were lost were brought back. Fred explains that she remembers Illyria's time in her body, such as her attempt to awaken her armies, but is still aware of Illyria within her, granting her access to Illyria's older memories and occasionally allowing Illyria to take over when she is exhausted or stressed (Although they both sleep when Fred sleeps).

 

Honestly I have no idea what they are talking about but hey, Fred's not dead anymore!

 

Oh, found this too:

◾Joss Whedon originally intended for Fred and Illyria to be split in two had Angel gotten a sixth season, as revealed by Amy Acker in an interview: "As I’m playing this new character now, it was just some stuff that he was going to do with her and bringing Fred back and getting to work with both characters." Eventually, this plot was resurrected in the comic continuation.[20]

Edited January 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

Aww, Fred. Amy Acker's adorable.

 

Never go on Twitter and say you're pissed at Oliver for his behavior. I'm fairly sure I have been consigned to the 9th circle of hell by jbuffyangel and callistawolf for daring to state that he's a douche for lying. 

[BkWurm1]

Never go on Twitter and say you're pissed at Oliver for his behavior. I'm fairly sure I have been consigned to the 9th circle of hell by jbuffyangel and callistawolf for daring to state that he's a douche for lying. 

Ha!  What?  Were you just bored?  Lol. 

[AyChihuahua]

Ha!  What?  Were you just bored?  Lol. 

I don't even follow callistawolf. Not sure why she's so mad. Jbuffyangel was totally POd at 4.08 until she sat on it for awhile and reconsidered SA's hotness. I don't understand how douchey dude's hotness is relevant, but whatevs. So I have the same opinion she did, but I stuck to it, so I'm now the terrible one? No different  information has been imparted to the audience to change the audience's opinion. SA's heart eyes are not actually additional information.

[BkWurm1]

SA's heart eyes are not actually additional information

 

No, but the high dose I got in 4-09 might have temporarily short circuited my complaints about 4-08.

 

Dems right powerful orbs.  ;p

[AyChihuahua]

No, but the high dose I got in 4-09 might have temporarily short circuited my complaints about 4-08.

 

Dems right powerful orbs.  ;p

I get that, but it doesn't make his behavior okay. Also, you haven't called me names and gif'd Cisco's "blah blah blah" hands at me. Kind of short-circuits intelligent conversation.

 

Me: Oliver's behavior in lying to his fiancee, who is the future stepmother of the child he's hiding the existence of/lying to her about, sure seems wrong and problematic to me.

 

Twitter: SHUT YOUR MOUTH YOU DUMB HO! YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HIS PAIN (and hotness!)!

Edited January 3, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

umm I don't think we're supposed to talk about other fans on this board and this is off topic for this thread

[kismet]

When does this little ass-kisser dude die? The one who screwed over Vaughn when SD-6 was infiltrated by Tarantino and turned him in for liking Sydney? Need him to die.

If that's the FBI guy who was also in Doritos Commercials... thats a nice twist to the end.

 

I have to admit, I have always loved ALIAS. Hands down one of my fav series. I never had that big of an issue with the Rambaldi stuff because for me it was just the mythology the show was built around. I will say that the series finale was a let down, but I blame ABC because they were not forthcoming with their renewal decisions and then extended their season out of the blue. Also ALIAS was constantly moved around the ABC line-up which I think affected their ratings and as a result their funding which never helps.

 

S2 is the best season, followed by s1, s3 (on rewatch), s4 & then s5. I will say that the BTS romantic drama between Jen Garner & Michael Vartan I think definitely had a negative impact on the show which was felt in later seasons. Despite that though Syd/Vaughn are still one of my fav all time couples on TV. Their natural chemistry flew off the screen. Even when the writing got a little plotty. I also think that if they had kept it in the direction it was going in s4 it would not have tanked, but the casting changes really threw the show for a loop.

 

That all being said, for me it was always a really amazing show to watch. I also love how never once did they feel the need to make Sydney weak or less because she was a woman. She was always strong and yet vulnerable. It was nice to see women portrayed like that. Actually most of all the female characters on that show were portrayed in a positive feministic light without being overbearing with the portrayals.

Edited January 3, 2016 by kismet

[kismet]

Season 1 & 2 of Alias was IMO fantastic and the season finale is on my top ten list for  best ever season finale's.   Don't skip it. It is awesome and painful at the same time.   

 

There is a twist that it actually sounds like you might not have been spoiled for (at least not all of it)  at the VERY end of the season two finale.  If nothing else watch and feel bad for us that couldn't immediately start on season 3.

 

Season three has angst to be sure but I didn't feel that it was badly done, just heavy handed and there was a period of time where I genuinely think the writers wanted the viewers to love Lauren and nope, that never happened so the storyline changed but I enjoyed season three a lot.  Poor Sydney. 

 

My memory gets fuzzy on the details of season four but I remember enjoying the characters even as they went back and forth on if they were good or evil. 

 

I feel I can recommend watching through season 4.  There are certainly some moments in 3 and 4 that should not be missed if you love the characters. 

 

Now, I thought they were going to do something terrible to Vaughn's character in season five that would ruin his characterization and because of it, I did quit at the end of 4 but when I heard it was ok to watch, I bought the DVD's for the fifth season and then watched only the episodes that Vaughn was in (One or two in the beginning and then a handful toward the end) and I was relieved that the characterization assassination didn't actually happen. 

 

 I was happy with the ending.

 

I 've never been interested in watching the episodes I didn't watch of season five but my BFF binged the whole series and loved it all and she's doesn't normally like the action/spy/prophecy type stuff at all. 

 

Binging is a very different experience than the slow slog through the season. I can promise season three for you won't be as painful as it was for me.  TOO much time to worry!!

 

  I have rewatched it since and there are a lot of hurts so good moments that I'm very glad I saw. 

Yea s3 live vs. s3 binge was a completely different experience. But I think s3 held up on binging & rewatching because you were able to get to the juicy part of Lauren's story and not wait months to get there. Unlike Arrow s3, which I think on binge & rewatch shows how weak of a season of writing it actually was. ALIAS s3 was like a jigsaw puzzle, so frustrating when all the pieces were messed up and needing sorting. But once you know how the pieces all fit, it becomes a better story.

 

I will also say that as much as I hated Lauren on ALIAS s3, I would take her over Ray on ARROW s3 any day. I was allowed to hate Lauren from the beginning because so much of the story is indirectly told through Sydney's perspective. So even when we or she tried not to hate her, we knew it was OK for a little bit of us to always hate her. And the show never tried to force or make her character happen. She was brought on for a purpose to play a role on the chess board of ALIAS. So her narrative served the show & the characters' journeys. RP literally just sucked up airtime and pulled FS away from the main narrative.

 

S3 ALIAS also gave us some of the most heart wrenching Syd/Vaughn scenes to this day that still gut me. "I would have waited". "I loved you so much it nearly killed me". "we will always find each other". Seriously, the pain was strong but the emotions were just so real. And as much as I hated them apart, them building back together was rewarding in the end. All of the angst had emotional purpose and resonance that that Angst in Arrow s3 never had.

 

I will never regret loving ALIAS, because even for all of its faults or missteps it still was a kickass show with strong characters & relationships (there seriously was almost no rom or platonic pairing that I didn't enjoy watching interact), and pretty decent writing that always triggered some type of emotional response. Plus they gave us a beautiful albeit thrown together finale in the last 5 episodes or so that tied up probably as much as they could, but I blame ABC for that more than the actual show.

[lemotomato]

S2 is the best season, followed by s1, s3 (on rewatch), s4 & then s5. I will say that the BTS romantic drama between Jen Garner & Michael Vartan I think definitely had a negative impact on the show which was felt in later seasons. Despite that though Syd/Vaughn are still one of my fav all time couples on TV. Their natural chemistry flew off the screen. Even when the writing got a little plotty. I also think that if they had kept it in the direction it was going in s4 it would not have tanked, but the casting changes really threw the show for a loop.

By negative impact do you mean the suspicion that Vaughn was written out of most of season 5 because of the BTS romantic drama? Because I was always impressed by how Garner and Vartan's breakup didn't affect the chemistry they had onscreen. I just watched the proposal on the plane scene on youtube and it was still swoon-worthy, even though I think she was dating Affleck by then.

 

I enjoyed most of Alias, with the exception of season 3 and the crazier Rambaldi stuff. I even liked season 5 and the newbies. 

[KenyaJ]

Vartan and Garner were the only time I've ever RL shipped one of my OTPs. And I only shipped them after they actually got together, because I adored Scott Foley and was genuinely sad when he and Garner split up. 

 

I was always repulsed by the idea of her and Ben Affleck together and couldn't bear to watch S5, especially when all the tabloids and gossip sites were talking about the BTS tension. I will never RL ship any of my favorite couples again.

[kismet]

By negative impact do you mean the suspicion that Vaughn was written out of most of season 5 because of the BTS romantic drama? Because I was always impressed by how Garner and Vartan's breakup didn't affect the chemistry they had onscreen. I just watched the proposal on the plane scene on youtube and it was still swoon-worthy, even though I think she was dating Affleck by then.

I enjoyed most of Alias, with the exception of season 3 and the crazier Rambaldi stuff. I even liked season 5 and the newbies.

Yes, I meant written less in the plot, I was trying not to spoil the season ;) . I think I remember reading that it was very hard for him to be on set and playing romantically off JG after their break, which I completely understand. But I was always impressed by their professionalism & how the chemistry never faltered onscreen. But my heart broke for MV, I can't imagine how hard it is to pretend to be your ex's lover & parent to their child, when said child was written in to accomodate a resl life pregnancy that oxcured with the person they moved on with.

The s5 newbies weren't bad; they just lacked the spark of the original crew & story. I think they should have tried harder to keep the dynamic of 4 going with Weiss & Nadia, but they had to their plotty stuff for Sloane. And they underutilized Sark in the final seasons on the whole.

[FurryFury]

OOh! Angel and Alias! I have SO many feels and thoughts about those shows! Especially the first one, which is imho much superior overall. Well, it's my favorite show ever (although BtVS and Veronica Mars are really close), so I'm a bit biased :)

 

I hated the Angel finale I HATE when shoes end on a cliffhanger like that

You know, I hated it when I've seen it first. About the same way I had hated The Dark Tower book series finale (my favorite book series ever, although Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive may change it) when I had read it first. But then, years later, I came to an understanding. They are both outstanding, I think, because they capture something essential about both series. And yes, these finale don't wrap everything into a neat little bow, as much as a part of me wants that, and they certainly don't give anyone a happily ever after. But they speak to me. They make me care. They keep the story alive in my mind, even now, when more than 10 years have passed. This is what I call a good finale. 

 

I loved both the Angel and BtVS finales. Both had most of the main characters alive and going on to fight another day.

Um... This is certainly not what I think about the Angel finale. It was a classic Bolivian Army Ending (see Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid), and while the comics do keep the mains alive (mostly, because Wesley is gone, and Fred had bitten it a few episodes previously), the show itself never implies they have a real chance, I think. Although I do love that fanfic which has the Scoobies appear at the very last second to save the day, because a) it's awesome and b) well, it's possible, kinda. 

 

I liked Cordy on Buffy and the first few seasons of Angel. She wasn't my favorite. Faith was my favorite character on both shows. 

Yeah, I loved Cordy for the most part (except s3 which has ruined her for me), but Faith is the best. Although for me, she still loses as the favorite character to Wesley, but just barely. They are both excellently written characters, nuanced and tragic and just generally badass. I ship them in a "never happened but could be awesome" way.

 

As for Alias, it's interesting, I had first seen the show about 10 years ago, loved it, shipped Sydney/Vaugh, yadda yadda. Last year, I tried to rewatch it. Holy shit, that was not a good decision. The first two seasons still stand up really well. Irina, Sark, Sydney and SpyDaddy all shine like usually. But Vaughn? I hated him! I still saw the awesome chemistry between him and Sydney, but he felt like such a weak person, somebody who never deserved Sydney. It started in s2 when he was all but ready to sleep with Sydney in Italy (IIRC) while still dating some other woman. And then he kissed her while still dating that woman. And then the whole s3 mess. Ugh. I just couldn't forgive him for that.

[Starfish35]

I used to really ship Faith and Wesley after watching the Faith episodes in season four. I guess that's messed up considering their history, but there was just something about the way he took care of her after Angelus beat her to a bloody pulp.

[AyChihuahua]

 

Um... This is certainly not what I think about the Angel finale. It was a classic Bolivian Army Ending (see Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid), and while the comics do keep the mains alive (mostly, because Wesley is gone, and Fred had bitten it a few episodes previously), the show itself never implies they have a real chance, I think.

Whenever someone responds to an opinion with "Um" I assume they are about to be snide and/or condescending.  I'm sure that's not the case here, though.

 

They didn't show them dying. They were mostly alive and about to have a big battle. That is what I meant. And Angel and Spike had faced worse situations in the past, so I have no problem believing they lived, but either way, I was glad they didn't show them all dying.

[Sakura12]

I used to really ship Faith and Wesley after watching the Faith episodes in season four. I guess that's messed up considering their history, but there was just something about the way he took care of her after Angelus beat her to a bloody pulp.

 

I really like that Wesley having gone dark himself understood Faith a little better the next time they met. Not as much as Angel and Faith understand each other but he moved past what she did to him because he needed her help. I always like that he tried to get her to go feral again and she refused, that showed how much Faith has grown. Then she was willing to give her life for his. Buffy is awesome and all but Faith is my girl. 

 

It is upsetting that Wesley died and wasn't around in the Faith and Angel comics, which I have somewhat enjoyed for the format it's in. (it got a little crazy and stupid in the end) It would've been interesting to see the storyline where

everyone thought Faith was dating Giles because he left her his entire estate and savings in his will after Twilight Angel killed him.

I really enjoyed that friendship in the comics as well as Faith and Angel's on the show. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

I used to really ship Faith and Wesley after watching the Faith episodes in season four. I guess that's messed up considering their history, but there was just something about the way he took care of her after Angelus beat her to a bloody pulp.

 

My Angel ship was Wesley and Lilah, hardcore Weslah. Man, I loved their fucked up dynamic. I was always kind of hoping Lilah would join Team Angel...:(.

Edited January 3, 2016 by catrox14

[FurryFury]

Whenever someone responds to an opinion with "Um" I assume they are about to be snide and/or condescending.

 

That's definitely not what I was trying to convey. It was meant to transfer the, err, YMMV-ness of my comment, I guess :)

 

They didn't show them dying. They were mostly alive and about to have a big battle. That is what I meant. And Angel and Spike had faced worse situations in the past, so I have no problem believing they lived, but either way, I was glad they didn't show them all dying.

 

Oh, I'm definitely with you on the latter. It was meant to be ambiguous, and I'm OK with it. I don't really want for Angel, Spike and Illyria to die, and they aren't easy to kill, too (Gunn though, I assumed he was done for).

 

It is upsetting that Wesley died and wasn't around in the Faith and Angel comics, which I have somewhat enjoyed for the format it's in.

 

My dream was a Wesley/Faith/Spike trio having adventures somewhere away from the two main gangs. I feel like it could have been a blast. Oh well.

 

My Angel ship was Wesley and Lilah, hardcore Weslah. Man, I loved their fucked up dynamic. I was always kind of hoping Lilah would join Team Angel...:(.

 

Oh, Lilah and Wes are classic. But I love that she didn't. And that he had to kill her. Perfect, even if gut-wrenching.

[Delphi]

Ugh I miss Faith so much. I liked Tru Calling but I really wish Eliza had been smart and accepted the spinoff offer. Instead of killing Wes he could have gone off with her and the wasted potential kills me.

I honestly think the Faith episodes of Angel are some of the strongest stories ever. Plus the choreography in the fight scenes from Five By Five and Orpheus were top notch.

[FurryFury]

Yeah I'll never forgive Eliza for choosing Tru Calling. I like her a lot, but I think she's kind of a one trick pony, this trick being Faith. She should have stuck to this one - the concept (Faith and Spike traveling the country on motorcycles) sounded amazing to me.

[Sakura12]

In the comics it was Faith and Giles, then Faith and Angel then Faith and Spike. All relationships I wished were shown more in the show.

 

As for Eliza Dusku she was even Faith on Bring It On. And she'll probably being Faith as an FBI Agent on Banshee this season. She'll probably work on that show since it's an ultra violent show with some fun characters and great fight scenes.