Small Talk: The Quiver

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, kismet said:

Watched s1 of IZombie and really liked it. I'm curious what s2 will bring. I do think though that they should have kept Lowell alive and killed Major.

I'm one that agreed  with you at the end of season 1 but he got interesting in season two.

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Anyone seen Poldark? 

Im seeing it everywhere now. Should I bother with it?

I enjoyed it a lot in the first season but I've heard things that make me think the 2nd season is going to do the kind of melodrama I hate.  I may need someone to prewatch and tell me if it goes too far but absolutely, for the eye candy and Arrow parallels alone it's worth it. And if the second season goes off the rails the first one can pretty much stand on it's own.   

[hogwash]

I started liking Major when the show began taking the gaslighting and lies that (apparently) go along with being the main love interest to its natural conclusion. Plus, I really liked how he took down Meat Cute (Izombie is so great with names) after no one but him seemed to care about those poor kids disappearing. The case of the week sometimes bores me silly but I usually like pretty much everything else. Boo at the midseason return.

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, hogwash said:

I started liking Major when the show began taking the gaslighting and lies that (apparently) go along with being the main love interest to its natural conclusion. Plus, I really liked how he took down Meat Cute (Izombie is so great with names) after no one but him seemed to care about those poor kids disappearing. The case of the week sometimes bores me silly but I usually like pretty much everything else. Boo at the midseason return.

I loved the final for S1 but it still took a while before I warmed up to him but I do think he's a better actor than his material in season one was letting him be because when given the chance, I thought he was pretty great in season two.  I like him and Ravi as roommates a lot.  Season two still gave Liv a love interest that I liked better as a love interest but at least I like Major as a general character on the show now.  Maybe season three will make me like him as a love interest.  Who knows?

[kismet]

@Chaser I recommend Poldark. It's nicely written and is beautiful to watch for multiple reasons.  The plot gets tricky for a bit, at times I have no idea why or how Poldark is in the predicaments he is in. But overall it is a well done BBC drama. I heard s2 is being delayed so that should be interesting. I completely didn't see the Arrow parallels until my Twitter feed became obsessed with it again and mentioned it.

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm one that agreed  with you at the end of season 1 but he got interesting in season two.

I enjoyed it a lot in the first season but I've heard things that make me think the 2nd season is going to do the kind of melodrama I hate.  I may need someone to prewatch and tell me if it goes too far but absolutely, for the eye candy and Arrow parallels alone it's worth it. And if the second season goes off the rails the first one can pretty much stand on it's own.   

I very much enjoyed the first season, but the book spoilers make me wishful that they do some fine tuning on some developments. I don't think certain things will read very well to the modern audience.

[SonofaBiscuit]

19 hours ago, bijoux said:

I very much enjoyed the first season, but the book spoilers make me wishful that they do some fine tuning on some developments. I don't think certain things will read very well to the modern audience.

I watched the first season of Poldark like a year ago, so details are kind of hazy, but I remember seeking out book spoilers after that.  I'm with you...I really hope they change some of the things I read about because a few of the more problematic plot points have the potential to be a turn-off for viewers. 

[Morrigan2575]

don't watch, don't care to watch but you have me curious. what happens that you wish they'd change?

[SonofaBiscuit]

39 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

don't watch, don't care to watch but you have me curious. what happens that you wish they'd change?

Okay Poldark fans, skip the following if you want to remain unspoiled.  MAJOR book spoilers ahead!!  

Spoiler

The main character, Ross Poldark, cheats on his wife (Demelza) with his ex-fiancee, Elizabeth (Elizabeth is married to Ross's cousin, btw).  It's not only that he cheats on Demelza with Elizabeth...some are saying he actually rapes Elizabeth.  I don't know because I've never read the books, but I've seen many people claim the same thing and some refute it. The rape/affair results in a child, and I don't know if Ross's wife ever finds out, but at some point Demelza considers cheating on him as well.  

Edited May 23, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit

[Thundercatmary]

Wow glad I steered clear of that lol

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yeah, if they follow the books I'm out. I'll just pretend there's nothing beyond S1 LOL.

[NumberCruncher]

I'm just sitting here laughing because I already know what's going to happen in S2 (I've read and enjoyed the first 3 Poldark books) so I think people are going to be in for a big surprise who expect the series will be happily ever after.  I'm still planning to watch the series though because I enjoy the characters and all the pretty.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't think people expect the series to be happily ever after or at least I didn't, but there are some things I don't find enjoyable to watch so when I stop being entertained I just quit.

[SmallScreenDiva]

This is me with Outlander. I've never read the books so I have no idea where this is headed. But I'm seeing a troubling trend that makes me not want to continue. The last ep, acting-wise was very good, but not a fan of

Spoiler

rape

happening (what feels like) all the time.

[NumberCruncher]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I don't think people expect the series to be happily ever after or at least I didn't, but there are some things I don't find enjoyable to watch so when I stop being entertained I just quit.

And that's certainly your choice.  My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.  Mostly I'm just seeing a lot of chatter on Twitter about how much people are adoring

 

Ross & Demelza's perfect relationship/marriage

so I'm seeing the impending

 

Ross/Elizabeth disaster

and it makes me laugh a bit since that's not how it happens in the books.  I'm just going to wait and see how the subject matter of book 3 is presented before writing the series off altogether.

9 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

This is me with Outlander. I've never read the books so I have no idea where this is headed. But I'm seeing a troubling trend that makes me not want to continue. The last ep, acting-wise was very good, but not a fan of

  Reveal hidden contents

rape

happening (what feels like) all the time.

If it makes you feel any better,

 

Winston Graham has been quoted as saying that when he wrote the scene in the book he didn't intend for it to be considered rape even if readers interpreted it as such.  The 1970s series didn't help matters as it did, in fact, portray it as rape and Graham was reportedly very disturbed by it.

 Again, I'm going to see what the modern adaptation does before I judge.

Edited May 23, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[SonofaBiscuit]

Quote

 

Anyone seen Poldark? 

Im seeing it everywhere now. Should I bother with it?

 

I wonder why it's suddenly popular?  It came out like a year ago, I think.  Weird.

With Outlander, I thought the first half of season one was kind of interesting.  I hated the last two episodes of the first season, and I had to fast-forward through nearly all of the season one finale (it was a sadistic fucking nightmare).  I'm currently six episodes behind and don't know if I'll ever bother catching up.   

[NumberCruncher]

1 minute ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I wonder why it's suddenly popular?  It came out like a year ago, I think.  Weird.

It aired in Feb. 2015 in the UK and July 2015 in the U.S. but I have seen some popular Olicity Twitter accounts watching it for the first time very recently and I think it has snowballed due to the parallels between it and Arrow (which I admit there are a lot).

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

If it makes you feel any better,

  Hide contents

Winston Graham has been quoted as saying that when he wrote the scene in the book he didn't intend for it to be considered rape even if readers interpreted it as such.  The 1970s series didn't help matters as it did, in fact, portray it as rape and Graham was reportedly very disturbed by it.

 Again, I'm going to see what the modern adaptation does before I judge.

Oh, I was referring to Outlander, not Poldark. But that's one of the reasons I'm very hesitant to dive into the series.

[NumberCruncher]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Oh, I was referring to Outlander, not Poldark. But that's one of the reasons I'm very hesitant to dive into the series.

I know you were and I agree re: Outlander.  There are no shades of gray in that book series.

 

 in terms of using rape as a plot device

I was just merely pointing out that the same can't be said for Poldark

 

where rape isn't a recurring theme

.

Edited May 23, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[thegirlsleuth]

@SmallScreenDiva I stopped reading the Outlander series because of the reason you mentioned.  I think it had weight in the first book, but after that it got cheap.

[Midnight Lullaby]

12 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

And that's certainly your choice.  My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.  Mostly I'm just seeing a lot of chatter on Twitter about how much people are adoring

  Reveal hidden contents

Ross & Demelza's perfect relationship/marriage

so I'm seeing the impending

  Reveal hidden contents

Ross/Elizabeth disaster

and it makes me laugh a bit since that's not how it happens in the books.  I'm just going to wait and see how the subject matter of book 3 is presented before writing the series off altogether.

If it makes you feel any better,

  Reveal hidden contents

Winston Graham has been quoted as saying that when he wrote the scene in the book he didn't intend for it to be considered rape even if readers interpreted it as such.  The 1970s series didn't help matters as it did, in fact, portray it as rape and Graham was reportedly very disturbed by it.

 Again, I'm going to see what the modern adaptation does before I judge.

I don't know what he intended to write but I read what he wrote and I don't blame any reader for interpreting it as such because to me it was, no doubts whatsoever. So either the show changes it completely or it would turn me off. It's not for me.

Well people are just reacting to what the show offered them so if they wanted to follow the books in the darkest aspects too they should have probably been more faithful to them from the beginning IMO. If they show an idealized relationship then do a 180 it's obvious they are going to disappoint people because they sold them that.

[kismet]

Well that's news about Poldark. Maybe I'm glad I didn't realize it was a book series. We'll have to see what the showrunners decide to do.

I have read all but one of the Outlander books and I will agree the quality dropped with each new book. Although it was plotty most of the 

Spoiler

Rapes

At least made some logical sense, especially in historical terms. I will admit it's not pleasant to watch or read but for me it didn't cheapen the story until the latter books when it was surrounded by weaker characters and weaker overall stories. 

I've yet to see Outlander s2, but I imagine the actors are still doing a fabulous job. Im hearing good things. Overall,  I feel like the showrunners are doing their best to balance the book & tv demands. It's certainly a complcated story to bring to the screen with some of it's subject matter. 

[NumberCruncher]

17 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I don't know what he intended to write but I read what he wrote and I don't blame any reader for interpreting it as such because to me it was, no doubts whatsoever. So either the show changes it completely or it would turn me off. It's not for me.

Well people are just reacting to what the show offered them so if they wanted to follow the books in the darkest aspects too they should have probably been more faithful to them from the beginning IMO. If they show an idealized relationship then do a 180 it's obvious they are going to disappoint people because they sold them that.

Fair enough re: the first point.  I doubt I'm going to change your mind when it sounds like it's already set in stone so we'll just leave it there.

As to the 2nd point, I don't think the show has presented it as an idealized relationship.  There are plenty of moments to give viewers pause but that hasn't stopped a lot of people from ignoring the obvious problems.  I also think that the new adaptation has been pretty faithful in general to the darker aspects of the pairing (e.g. his uncertainty at the hasty marriage, his obvious indecision when it comes to choosing allegiances between Demelza and Elizabeth, etc.).  I tend to think that the chemistry between the actors is what has clouded the situation to the point that it's overshadowing the chinks in the armor as it were.

[Midnight Lullaby]

13 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

Fair enough re: the first point.  I doubt I'm going to change your mind when it sounds like it's already set in stone so we'll just leave it there.

As to the 2nd point, I don't think the show has presented it as an idealized relationship.  There are plenty of moments to give viewers pause but that hasn't stopped a lot of people from ignoring the obvious problems.  I also think that the new adaptation has been pretty faithful in general to the darker aspects of the pairing (e.g. his uncertainty at the hasty marriage, his obvious indecision when it comes to choosing allegiances between Demelza and Elizabeth, etc.).  I tend to think that the chemistry between the actors is what has clouded the situation to the point that it's overshadowing the chinks in the armor as it were.

Yeah, for me when a woman says "no" there are no buts.

I should probably say that I didn't idealize it, I really liked the show and the couple but I didn't "fall in love" or anything like others seem to have done, it was a casual watch for me.

I think though that the relationship came out as idealized because the moments of doubt felt understandable because of objective circumstances and they were solved very very fast, while the romantic gestures were given more space and presented the relationship in the most positive light possible.

Spoiler

For example we see him doubting the marriage for one second while he looks at her, then there's a long, sweet scene between them. He talks about it probably being bad for business and we can see it's true but he also says and proves he doesn't care and believes it was the right thing to do. And in the same episode we have him confessing his love and telling her she redeemed him..Also he tells Elizabeth point blank that Demelza is the love of his life..there wasn't much ambiguity left IMO. So I think the negative moments are too short and solved too quickly not to leave that kind of impression of the couple and of him.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, NumberCruncher said:

I'm just sitting here laughing because I already know what's going to happen in S2 (I've read and enjoyed the first 3 Poldark books) so I think people are going to be in for a big surprise who expect the series will be happily ever after.  I'm still planning to watch the series though because I enjoy the characters and all the pretty.

I think it would be a really smart call on the writers' part to avoid some aspects as I just don't see them flying with the modern audience.

Spoiler

Ross doesn't have to be perfect, but him raping Elizabeth is simply vile and why anyone would wish to root for him after that point is beyond me. From what I've read, the writer tried to pass it off as forced seduction in later books, but that's crap. And I think it will be called as such by the general audience as well. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Hi Team Arrow

Sorry for the delay, but I've been sidelined with some kind of evil flu type thing.  We're going try out the "Rate the Episode" poll thing.  Mods were thinking a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being something like "Worse than a day with no Arrow discussions" and 5 being something like "Better that SA shirtless on the salmon ladder"

The above are just random examples.  We're opening it up to you guys to help choose what you want the rating system to be, so brainstorm away.  The only rule is BE POLITE AND MAKE THEM FANDOM NEUTRAL.   (eg, no "1 - Worse than Laurel because she sucks and I hate her".)

[wonderwall]

1) Worse than the skim milk (which is water that's lying about being milk)

5) Better than shirtless Diggle

OR if we're going to be relevant to Arrow

1) Worse than DJ Douchebag

5) Better than shirtless Diggle

:)

Edited May 24, 2016 by wonderwall

[lemotomato]

I gotta go with "worst than season 4 island flashbacks" for 1 and "better than shirtless Oliver on the salmon ladder" for 5

Edited May 24, 2016 by lemotomato

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

23 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

1) Worse than the skim milk (which is water that's lying about being milk)

5) Better than shirtless Diggle

OR if we're going to be relevant to Arrow

1) Worse than DJ Douchebag

5) Better than shirtless Diggle

:)

Dem abs doe. 

[kismet]

56 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Hi Team Arrow

Sorry for the delay, but I've been sidelined with some kind of evil flu type thing.  We're going try out the "Rate the Episode" poll thing.  Mods were thinking a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being something like "Worse than a day with no Arrow discussions" and 5 being something like "Better that SA shirtless on the salmon ladder"

The above are just random examples.  We're opening it up to you guys to help choose what you want the rating system to be, so brainstorm away.  The only rule is BE POLITE AND MAKE THEM FANDOM NEUTRAL.   (eg, no "1 - Worse than Laurel because she sucks and I hate her".)

Hope you're feeling better. :)

I suggest

1. Worse than when PTV becomes unavailable.
2. As bad as the season 3 & 4 flashbacks
3. As good as well-shot action scene or a broken window
4. Better than well-written character scene or shoulder rub
5. Better than a shirtless scene or anytime wardrobe decides to make it clothing optional ;)

Edited May 24, 2016 by kismet

[EmeraldArcher]

32 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I gotta go with "worst than season 4 island flashbacks" for 1 and "better than shirtless Oliver on the salmon ladder" for 5

Ooh, I like those!

How about "Worse than #Poppy's accent"? (Probably not--nothing is worse than that!!) ;-)

or

"Worse than Oliver's flashback wig"

"Worse than a Vertigo trip"

"Worse than a rain coat with too many grommets"

"Worse than watching your father, mother, best friend, and 3 ex-girlfriends die?" (Did I forget anyone?)

"Worse than peeing on a cop car"

"Worse than Star City in May"

"Worse than official CW promotion of Arrow"

 

(I'm starting to think I should spend more time in the Bitterness thread!)

[catrox14]

Worse than Gossip Ghul

Worse than the Blonde Wig to the Black Wig when Black Siren was hit by a car

Worse than Oliver's serial killer flashback photo

[way2interested]

I love these kinds of games!

My picks so far,

1 being worse than leaving Roy in a puddle

5 being better than a day when CW promotes Arrow,

if those are neutral enough!

Edited May 24, 2016 by way2interested

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

"Worse than official CW promotion of Arrow"

Worse than CW promotion of Supernatural (which is worse than Arrow).

[lemotomato]

Weeeeellll... seeing that this is the Arrow forum....

[Chaser]

Worse than Malcolm Merlyn

ETA: Worse than Ollie's serial killer pre-island photo

Edited May 24, 2016 by Chaser

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Weeeeellll... seeing that this is the Arrow forum....

And that was a joke...good grief. I wasn't serious

[kismet]

I like the "worse than leaving Roy in a puddle" because that was an all around failure from character, to actors, production, director, writers, editor & TPTB. I hate the word epic, but that was an epic failure of the show.

I really do think Shirtless needs to be worked in to one of the betters. I'm just not sure it has to be limited to Oliver or Dig. I love those scenes, but I'm sure there are some that watch that appreciate when Felicity & Sara have also been onscreen without a shirt. And if I was a few years older, I might have appreciated a shirtless Ras - it is a CW custom after all to take off your shirt at some point in your run.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Quote

"Worse than Oliver's flashback wig"

Hee!  Loving this one.  

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

Like an order of Big Belly Burger with milkshake and fries :)

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Hee!  Loving this one.  

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

Aww. Oliver's flashback wig is great!

[TrueMyth]

19 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

Just your standard episode of Felicity and Friends?

[BkWurm1]

24 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Hee!  Loving this one.  

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

As average as a day in Star City with a broken window. 

As average as Star City under attack in May.

Edited May 24, 2016 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

Just now, TrueMyth said:

Just your standard episode of Felicity and Friends?

Excuse me. Felicity and friends is a 5, maybe even a 6! ;)

[BkWurm1]

Oops, wrong thread. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by BkWurm1

[wonderwall]

21 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

3 - As standard as the Arrow stunts maybe? Sometimes it's good but sometimes it's bad sometimes it's good but usually it's middling it

Ohhh another one:

1 -  As effective as the SCPD

5 - So good it felt like the Lazarus Pit revived me (my personal favorite :p)

[Chaser]

5 - Almost as good as The Flash

[kismet]

25 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Hee!  Loving this one.  

What would be the standard for a perfectly average 3 episode? 

 

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Aww. Oliver's flashback wig is great!

I love the wig and I know some people here secretly miss it ;) Not everyone recognizes it power, but I do blame part of the flashbacks downfall on the lack of wig. It had Samson affect that we have witnessed in full effect on the show. Never cut your hair on a CW show on film, it's bad news bear. Felicity (the original) should have taught TPTB that vital lesson. It's well detailed online, it should be taught in Showrunner 101.

That being said, it is pretty horrible looking and reminiscent of the serial killer photo. So perhaps its not the wig, but rather OQ willing choosing that floppy surfer gone serial killer look willingly in the first place.

But either way it's probably a 2 or 3 level episode.

[TrueMyth]

2 or 3 - Pointless Parkouring (fun, but a a bit WTF and needless)

[kismet]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

3 - As standard as the Arrow stunts maybe? Sometimes it's good but sometimes it's bad sometimes it's good but usually it's middling it

Ohhh another one:

1 -  As effective as the SCPD

5 - So good it felt like the Lazarus Pit revived me (my personal favorite :p)

Until the Blood Lust hits :/

I do like something about the stunts being in the middle, I suggested something similar because they sometimes are amazing and they sometimes are Meh.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, kismet said:

Until the Blood Lust hits :/

I do like something about the stunts being in the middle, I suggested something similar because they sometimes are amazing and they sometimes are Meh.

The chore of having blood lust = the next episode which usually isn't as good lmfao

And it makes sense because you want another episode to kill it but it doesn't so you're left unsatisfied.

Edited May 24, 2016 by wonderwall