S04.E02: The Art Of Construction

[dialyn]

I could handle a princess aesthetic and I could even handle a designer returning to her wheelhouse over and over, but someone really does need to tell Kate she's had a few birthdays since her sixth and it's time to realize she's not actually a princess, no matter how hard she plays dress up. And it's about to cross the line from annoying to sad/creepy...put down the tiara and back away slowly.

 

 

I've never been married, nor am I apt to at this late date to have a wedding, but I have a weird fascination for wedding shows and I've noticed an awful lot of brides have a fixation on being a princess or queen for their wedding, and many of them are the same age or older than Kate.  My feeling is that Kate is less interested in winning Project Runway All Stars and much more interested in advertising her brand, and part of her brand is the fantasy of the royal wedding (shouldn't we all know better but still there are people who insist on living in a fairy tale for a day before reality sets in).  This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if the reason she is dressing the way she is has to do with that branding she is doing. She is, in other words, catering to her niche. 

 

Frankly, if she likes to dress up like a princess, I don't see who she is harming.  Better that then some of those nearly-not-there dresses that the singers and starlets have been wearing lately.

 

It could be my bad memory, but I thought Zanna did manage to give some useful advice this last episode.  I could, of course, be wrong about that since I really don't remember what she said and I don't want to watch the episode again to nudge my sluggish brain.

[RealityGal]

 

Frankly, if she likes to dress up like a princess, I don't see who she is harming.  Better that then some of those nearly-not-there dresses that the singers and starlets have been wearing lately.

 

You're right, its not hurting anyone.  But I do think its odd for a grown woman to wear a tiara unless she is a beauty queen or queen of a country or queen of a country fair, or homecoming queen.  It makes me scared that she is going to ether some poor guy and force him to be her Disney prince.  But I've watched a lot of Criminal Minds.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I have noticed the same pronunciation of foe-werd on some native Californians too (as in born and raised in California, never lived outside the state). These people also pronounce pillow as "pellow' so it's not just one particular letter or vowel. I can't explain it but I laugh every time I hear it.

I'm a native Californian born and raised and despite three plus decades in NYC  I, too , say foe-werd.  I don't think I say "pellow" but I definitely have retained my terrible flat California accent.

[kitmerlot1213]

You're right, its not hurting anyone.  But I do think its odd for a grown woman to wear a tiara unless she is a beauty queen or queen of a country or queen of a country fair, or homecoming queen.  It makes me scared that she is going to ether some poor guy and force him to be her Disney prince.  But I've watched a lot of Criminal Minds.

 

To me, Kate's wearing a tiara is sort of an inside joke, sort of like how US skier Julia Mancuso wore won when she accepted her gold medals at the Olympics.  It seems harmless to me.

 

But when Michelle speaks in her weird faux accents and does her strange dances, I see someone desperately trying to appear cute and/or charming.  But then again, I loathe Michelle.

[dialyn]

I'm a native Californian born and raised and despite three plus decades in NYC  I, too , say foe-werd.  I don't think I say "pellow" but I definitely have retained my terrible flat California accent.

It's funny but I am also a native Californian (Southern California) so I have read with interest all the notions about the California accent.  I don't say any of these words in a special California accent as detailed in various postings (nor does my native born brother or our native born friends). What I have noticed is that I often pick up accents from other areas so once in awhile my father's Oklahoma accent sneaks in, other times my mother's Wisconsin accent and, once in awhile, I come up with a Southern accent for no good reason than apparently my ears love the sound of it.  Maybe I just don't hear a terrible flat accent because I have grown up around native Californians (in fact, I'm not sure what is meant by a flat California accent), but I love the lively mix of accents in my area. Accents are like spice to language. 

 

And, just to be a bore, I don't see what accents have to do with the designers. We may not like someone's voice, but they aren't really media stars as yet, and that's not part of the contest. Their voice is the fashion that walks down the runway.  While I love being judgmental about how someone looks or sounds as much as anyone, it has nothing to do with their ability to send something interesting down the runway.  Alyssa is something different because as the host, she does present an image with her voice, and she is judged partially on how she sounds.  To my taste, I would rather listen to Cat Deeley, who has made her accent part of her charm (how she gets the audiences to join in when she says the word "judges," for example--very purposeful and always with a twinkle).   Still, at the end of the day, how she sounds or how she dresses also makes no difference because Alyssa's not influencing the designers (until the day they are given the task of creating a garment for her, which might be interesting considering the taste in maternity clothes her stylist is showing). 

 

I know one thing, I would hate to be in a business where you can't ever make a mistake in how you speak or what you wear or what your hair looks like or, gasp, how much you weigh.  I know that's a choice all of these people make and they know what they are in for when they get in front of the camera, but I don't think that's anything I could ever do (or would be asked to do).

 

I am looking forward to the next episode.  I am so hoping that designers perk up and can manage better fashions despite the short deadlines.  It could be wicked good fun depending on how they work on it. That speculation is, of course, for a different thread.

Edited November 11, 2014 by dialyn

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm a native Californian born and raised and despite three plus decades in NYC I, too , say foe-werd. I don't think I say "pellow" but I definitely have retained my terrible flat California accent.

The other weird California pronunciation I hear is bag as "baig." Imagine how I giggled when we had a sleepover in high school where we were reminded to bring our pellows and our sleeping baigs.

I don't know how much of Alyssa's awful styling on this show is Lifetime's cheap budget and how much is her bad taste. I have no issue with her pregnancy weight gain (I hate when women are like oh, yes, I'm nine months pregnant but I've only gained nine pounds because I didn't want to look like a whale!) but the way she is dressed. She doesn't have to wear skin tight dresses or muumuus. There have just been so many unflattering outfits on her and it's only the second episode. If Lifetime isn't willing to fork over money for expensive maternity clothes, even Target has some cute tops and dresses.

[kitmerlot1213]

And, just to be a bore, I don't see what accents have to do with the designers. We may not like someone's voice, but they aren't really media stars as yet, and that's not part of the contest. Their voice is the fashion that walks down the runway.  While I love being judgmental about how someone looks or sounds as much as anyone, it has nothing to do with their ability to send something interesting down the runway. 

 

 

I always thought that part of the reason for the deigners being on the show is to garner an audience/supporters, so if the designer seems fake or phony, I can't imagine many people would want to hire them or buy their designs.  For example, would many people want to work with/for Korinna who has a meltdown at any type of criticism?  If they portray themselves badly or get a bad edit, that could cast them in a bad light in the fashion industry.

 

Or maybe I'm just over-thinking this :)

[dialyn]

I always thought that part of the reason for the deigners being on the show is to garner an audience/supporters, so if the designer seems fake or phony, I can't imagine many people would want to hire them or buy their designs.  For example, would many people want to work with/for Korinna who has a meltdown at any type of criticism?  If they portray themselves badly or get a bad edit, that could cast them in a bad light in the fashion industry.

 

Or maybe I'm just over-thinking this :)

How they behave is different from having an accent.  I wouldn't want to hire someone who was undependable, who couldn't follow directions, who refused to work with team members.  I honestly don't know why the designers become so unconscious of the camera....or the camera seems to bring out the worst in some of them.  I can't judge whether they are fake or phoney, but I certainly can tell, even from heavily edited snippets, that they are thoughtless or inconsiderate or outright rude in their language or behavior.  Would I want to hire someone who tells all in front of a camera?  Think about it...I imagine designers at the high end work with people who are in positions that would like to be able to keep some of their personal lives confidential.  Who on the All Stars would you trust?  Not just to make a great dress but to keep anything they heard to themselves?  In the business world, there are always certain things you don't want your competitor to know.  Would they be able to contain themselves?  I know some of them could.  I'm not sure of others.

Edited November 12, 2014 by dialyn

[ThatsDarling]

I didn't really notice it when it came down the runway, but looking at pictures, Helen's dress sure was ugly. Her color sense is horrible.

 

Naturally, she was on Twitter whining about being "robbed" of a top 3 placement and more screen time. It amazes me how little self-awareness she has.    

[RealityGal]

I didn't really notice it when it came down the runway, but looking at pictures, Helen's dress sure was ugly. Her color sense is horrible.

 

Naturally, she was on Twitter whining about being "robbed" of a top 3 placement and more screen time. It amazes me how little self-awareness she has.    

She really thinks she ought to be on screen more?  Is she aware of how truly unlikable she is?

[dialyn]

She really thinks she ought to be on screen more?  Is she aware of how truly unlikable she is?

I'm probably wrong but my take would be that she doesn't think there is any problem with her but the problem is with other people.  She seems pretty adept at the blame game.

[RealityGal]

I'm probably wrong but my take would be that she doesn't think there is any problem with her but the problem is with other people.  She seems pretty adept at the blame game.

You're right.  Of course its everyone else!

[Calamity Jane]

I'm a native Californian born and raised and despite three plus decades in NYC  I, too , say foe-werd.  I don't think I say "pellow" but I definitely have retained my terrible flat California accent.

I've lived in SoCal since 1965 and have noticed in the past 20 years that my students "mell" letters and break their finger "nells."  Drives me nuts.  The vowels are definitely flattening out and short i is becoming indistinguishable from short e (pin and pen sound the same).  As a linguistics minor, I find it all interesting.  Off-topic from the show, but interesting.  

[dialyn]

I've lived in SoCal since 1965 and have noticed in the past 20 years that my students "mell" letters and break their finger "nells."  Drives me nuts.  The vowels are definitely flattening out and short i is becoming indistinguishable from short e (pin and pen sound the same).  As a linguistics minor, I find it all interesting.  Off-topic from the show, but interesting.  

I don't think that's a purely Southern California thing ... there has been a change in pronunciation among certain age groups that has very little to do with this region but seems to be driven by other influences.  But, yes, definitely off topic for Project Runway.

[Julia]

I imagine Helen has a fine case of psychic blueballs from losing the opportunity to play psycho street urchin Ophelia over Alexandria.

[Bebecat]

Also, Kate is reliving her recent dream wedding, probably,,where she WAS princess for a day lol

Anyway...send her home please, in a sweep with Helen and Michelle...that is my dream elimination.

And put Alyssa in a darned uniform of some sort...anything would be better than whatever is going on now. Do they let her choose samples meant for fashion models?? I can picture her running in every week like a kid playing dress-up, grabbing the most inappropriate and ill-fitting, unflattering outfit and a bunch of stylists cringing with horror. Or...a bunch of catty, nasty stylists who for some reason hate her and convince her these ridiculous choices suit her.

I wonder if Heidi watches, lol...she may have her moments but it barely matters, she was wear anything.

[ThatsDarling]

I'm probably wrong but my take would be that she doesn't think there is any problem with her but the problem is with other people.  She seems pretty adept at the blame game.

Anyone who criticizes her or her garments in any way is a "hater," but Helen thinks she's totally justified in wishing death on bloggers and contestants who dare suggest she's less than perfect.

 

It's so foul that the producers brought her back. She's uncomfortable to watch. 

Edited November 12, 2014 by ThatsDarling

[Julia]

I guess I figure Helen was meant to be another Tim Gunn salvage, but since she a) doesn't recognize that she looked terrible the first time, and b) has to actually compete this time, I don't think her behavior is going to improve. It does seem unlikely she'd be tweeting ungraciously about the judges if they'd handed her another free ride, though, so that's cheering.

 

I'm a little concerned that Michelle's twitter is more cheerful than I'd like.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Julia

[RealityGal]

I guess I figure Helen was meant to be another Tim Gunn salvage, but since she a) doesn't recognize that she looked terrible the first time, and b) has to actually compete this time, I don't think her behavior is going to improve. It does seem unlikely she'd be tweeting ungraciously about the judges if they'd handed her another free ride, though, so that's cheering.

 

I'm a little concerned that Michelle's twitter is more cheerful than I'd like.

I'm thinking Michelle either:

 

a) realized she came off way bad last time and is desperately trying to improve her image

b) is on drugs

c) is punking in some way by being over the top saccharine sweet

d) b and a

e) b and c

[novhappy]

Is there a current season of project runway all stars on now? What night is it on?

[RealityGal]

Is there a current season of project runway all stars on now? What night is it on?

Yes, its on Thursday nights.  I watch it online after it airs on TV so I don't know exact times.

[Beden]

As my often faulty memory recalls, wasn't Helen in some horrible accident--a car wreck or something--which left her in a coma with severe head injuries? I think it happened while she was in London at some point in the past. This all came out in her original season and she basically said something along the lines of that she's been close to death and it made her realize that she should do whatever she wanted and fuck the consequences because life is short and you never know.

 

She may well have been a wackadoodle before all that but I'm tempted to cut her some slack, at least on a personal level. And no, I don't like her designs all that much either.

 

 

I always thought that part of the reason for the deigners being on the show is to garner an audience/supporters, so if the designer seems fake or phony, I can't imagine many people would want to hire them or buy their designs.  For example, would many people want to work with/for Korinna who has a meltdown at any type of criticism?  If they portray themselves badly or get a bad edit, that could cast them in a bad light in the fashion industry.

Of course they're trying to showcase themselves/their lines/their businesses. And I'm slightly surprised that, after a dozen seasons, they remain so clueless regarding the impressions they make and the picture of themselves they often present. Arrogant, overemotional, entitled and all of that; no, I wouldn't hire the ones who can't keep their shit together. If I were shopping for a red carpet gown, a wedding gown or some other custom piece I'd sure as hell want someone who will listen to my ideas, thoughts, requirements and be willing to work with what I want/need. Oh, and maybe be pleasant while they're doing it. Helen is right about one thing; life's too short to fight needless battles about the small stuff.

 

Some of these kids aren't doing themselves any favors. Give me a calm, professional Dmitry any day.

[Julia]

As my often faulty memory recalls, wasn't Helen in some horrible accident--a car wreck or something--which left her in a coma with severe head injuries? I think it happened while she was in London at some point in the past. This all came out in her original season and she basically said something along the lines of that she's been close to death and it made her realize that she should do whatever she wanted and fuck the consequences because life is short and you never know.

 

She may well have been a wackadoodle before all that but I'm tempted to cut her some slack, at least on a personal level. And no, I don't like her designs all that much either.

 

Not that I recall. As I recall Helen's story, she's a professional student with affluent artist parents who lives and works in Jersey. I think you maybe be thinking of Elisa Jimenez. 

 

I would be OK with Helen being abrasive, with or without near death experience. Whiny, dishonest, manipulative and mean is something else.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Julia

[BathKol]

I didn't really notice it when it came down the runway, but looking at pictures, Helen's dress sure was ugly. Her color sense is horrible.

Naturally, she was on Twitter whining about being "robbed" of a top 3 placement and more screen time. It amazes me how little self-awareness she has.

WTF?! I heard about the Helen Twitter drama but only caught the tail end of her Instagram rages, where she was doodling turds and wagging tongues on Helen's face and then blasting people for saying how mean she was.

And yes, that was Eliza Jimenez who was run over in London and apparently some part of her brain short circuited afterward. She was the one who was dripping bodily fluids onto her clothes and talking in a raspy voice with her eyes rolled up in her head. I'm a spiritual person and am all for metaphysics and mysticism, but she was less on the beautiful, mysterious side and more stranger than fiction.

[Beden]

 

Not that I recall. As I recall Helen's story, she's a professional student with affluent artist parents who lives and works in Jersey. I think you maybe be thinking of Elisa Jimenez.

 

I would be OK with Helen being abrasive, with or without near death experience. Whiny, dishonest, manipulative and mean is something else.

Ah, I stand corrected--blame my crap memory and apologies to Elisa.

 

And yes, nasty is as nasty does, especially without a near death experience.

[Lamb18]

I'm feeling a female win this year because the first three All Stars were won by men, so I'm seriously pulling for either Sam or Sonjia. Dear Flying Spaghetti Monster, I hope that it's not going to be Michelle, Kate or Helen, but if I have to choose between those three, I'm going for Kate. Michelle would be next. If it were Helen, I'll never watch All Stars again.

Maybe it's a "redemption" season for Helen because Tim Gunn feels she should have won her season.

 

You're right, its not hurting anyone.  But I do think its odd for a grown woman to wear a tiara unless she is a beauty queen or queen of a country or queen of a country fair, or homecoming queen.  It makes me scared that she is going to ether some poor guy and force him to be her Disney prince.  But I've watched a lot of Criminal Minds.

I watched that episode, too, last week!

[PepperMonkey]

OMG, Lamb! I just had a panic attack even thinking of Helen being redeemed!!!! Take that back, naow!!!

[BathKol]

OMG, Lamb! I just had a panic attack even thinking of Helen being redeemed!!!! Take that back, naow!!!

Don't worry - they already planned whom will be given the mark of the beast so we just have to wait and see.

It's a toss up between these people. It will be either Helen or Michelle but only time will tell. Sonjia might win...but only by the hairs of her nose.

[Julia]

Don't worry - they already planned whom will be given the mark of the beast so we just have to wait and see.

It's a toss up between these people. It will be either Helen or Michelle but only time will tell. Sonjia might win...but only by the hairs of her nose.

 

Think positive. Giving it to Justin would do wonders for their asshole problem *and* serve as the ultimate validation of the Tim Gunn save, so, twofer.

[BathKol]

Think positive. Giving it to Justin would do wonders for their asshole problem *and* serve as the ultimate validation of the Tim Gunn save, so, twofer.

I know - I try!!! I have a feeling that Justin will be in there but I have NO idea what the producers want for this season? Nobody here is sporting a sob story of personal struggle and everybody has an air of seasoned calm.

[Tony]

Maybe it's a "redemption" season for Helen because Tim Gunn feels she should have won her season.

 

Another nail in the coffin for Tim Gunn. He can officially get off my screen now.

[Lamb18]

Note: I don't know if he really thinks that, it's just supposition on my part.

[dialyn]

I don't know how much influence Tim Gunn has on the actual judging.  On "Under the Gunn," he made well known his preference for certain contenders, but Heidi and Neil Patrick Harris came in at the end, overrode him, and created a different ending from the one he wanted.  According to Heidi, the reason why Gretchen won over Mondo is that guest judge Jessica Simpson changed her vote to join Nina Garcia and Michael Kors for a Gretchen win.  The point is that it probably means the least that Tim Gunn has a preference and more weight to the judges and whoever is the swing vote in case of a tie.  So far Tim Gunn hasn't got a vote.   Actually in the All Stars version he seems has no influence since he isn't part of the All Stars (unless he is working behind the curtains).  In the last couple of regular seasons, he has come down with the top three and lower three garments for the judges to look at more closely and made some comments to the judges at that time, but that doesn't seem to be happening in the All Stars.  Blame him for some lapses in behavior (and I do), but I don't think he is responsible for the judging results (unless something is going on off camera, which it may well be).

Edited November 17, 2014 by dialyn

[BathKol]

I don't know how much influence Tim Gunn has on the actual judging. On "Under the Gunn," he made well known his preference for certain contenders, but Heidi and Neil Patrick Harris came in at the end, overrode him, and created a different ending from the one he wanted. According to Heidi, the reason why Gretchen won over Mondo is that guest judge Jessica Simpson changed her vote to join Nina Garcia and Michael Kors for a Gretchen win. The point is that it probably means the least that Tim Gunn has a preference and more weight to the judges and whoever is the swing vote in case of a tie. So far Tim Gunn hasn't got a vote. Actually in the All Stars version he seems to have less influence. In the last couple of regular seasons, he has come down with the top three and lower three garments for the judges to look at more closely and made some comments to the judges at that time, but that doesn't seem to be happening in the All Stars. Blame him for some lapses in behavior (and I do), but I don't think he is responsible for the judging results (unless something is going on off camera, which it may well be).

I never knew that about the whole Simpson last minute switch. That was one of the early Lifetime seasons I watched years after its original run, so I never quite got sucked into the whole Gretchen Vortex.

On the subject of Tim Gunn, he's a walking oxymoron to me. He seems to, at times, play along with the producers and then alternatively backlashes at them by screwing the system, such as picking Charkita over whomever they originally wanted as the 'save' and fucking the judges over by giving out bad advice to the favorites. I think his behavior on Under the Gunn had a lot to do with the show not being what he had originally signed up for. I don't think he was planning on doing a Project Mentorship with a bunch of PR rejects and the three worst personalities to ever grace television screens. Anya was and always will be haunted by her sex tape scandal, Mondo exploited his own self for pity, and what has Nick done worthwhile? Other than be an annoying turd like Santino said?

Edited November 17, 2014 by BathKol

[dialyn]

I'm probably a little dense, but I don't see how Tim Gunn's misread of the judges' preferences (and, really, who could predict the judges from week to week) and giving advice on that misreading does anything but hurt the designers, not the judges.   We really don't know what Tim Gunn had in mind for "Under the Gunn" but he put his name on it and part of the problem of the show was related to his behavior during it....no, I'm not giving him a free pass on that.  As for what Nick has done that was worthwhile, I think that depends on your viewpoint. I imagine one reason he was included is that the Fashion Institute of Design & Merchandising (where Santino went on scholarship) served as the location for "Under the Gunn" and Nick Verreos is associated with them, including being a teacher there. He has also been a tireless promoter of "Project Runway,"  which, for better or worse, probably gives him some latitude.  He also seems to be actively designing:  http://www.nikolakidesign.com. What else does he need to do?  Have no idea what Santino has against Verreros but I don't take his word for anything he says about someone else unless he has proof that person deserved it.

 

None of this has anything to do with this season's All Stars, of course; blame the long detour on my short stint as a librarian.

Edited November 17, 2014 by dialyn

[RealityGal]

On the subject of Tim Gunn, he's a walking oxymoron to me. He seems to, at times, play along with the producers and then alternatively backlashes at them by screwing the system, such as picking Charkita over whomever they originally wanted as the 'save' and fucking the judges over by giving out bad advice to the favorites.

 

Anya was and always will be haunted by her sex tape scandal, Mondo exploited his own self for pity, and what has Nick done worthwhile? Other than be an annoying turd like Santino said?

 

See, my feeling is that the producers were probably on board with the Char save.  I, personally, wanted him to save it for Fade.  However, early on, Char was a favorite, and people have always said that they like her personality and her story....even those who hate her designs.  I could see the producers wanting to save a likable contestant.

 

I like Nick and Santino.  Why can't they like each other?  There is enough of my love to go around, they don't have to fight ;) just kidding

[yeswedo]

As Tim is not appearing on All Stars please take detailed discussion of him over to the Project Runway forum. A comment here and there is ok in this forum but too far off topic derails the conversation.

 

Thanks!

[BathKol]

Edited my comment

Edited November 17, 2014 by BathKol

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Alyssa - these.two.QUAR-TERS would buy you a better dress than your StayPuft get up. Also, you sort of talk like a soap operatic Stepford wife. It's weird, but boy I'd laugh if you got to smack the cry out of Helen with that tone.*

 

*surfs in on a wave of LOL*

 

I don't even watch this show, but this utterly delights me, potatoradio. QUAR-TERS, indeed.

 

*surfs back out*