The First 48

[Lindz]

Oh boy. A suspended student kills while out of school. That's just great! Students shouldn't be suspended, they should get detention. MORE school, NOT LESS!! DUH!! & WTF?! He tried to drag an INNOCENT classmate down with him! TRASH!! I'm  surprised it wasn't over drugs. I couldn't make sense of their stories of how it happened, doesn't make the boy any less dead. Shocking one detective thought he didn't do it, didn't they remember the friend saying the guy had short dreads... which he had?!! I wanted to see his location history. That woulda put him at the scene. Guess it's a good thing he was a good shot. He got the guy intended & didn't hit his friends. I doubt either will get life. If so, definitely parole, especially the one that shot in the air. It's bothersome seeing the cops driving without wearing seatbelts! So irresponsible & unfair!

[Enero]

17 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Oh boy. A suspended student kills while out of school. That's just great! Students shouldn't be suspended, they should get detention. MORE school, NOT LESS!! DUH!! & WTF?! He tried to drag an INNOCENT classmate down with him! TRASH!! I'm  surprised it wasn't over drugs. I couldn't make sense of their stories of how it happened, doesn't make the boy any less dead. Shocking one detective thought he didn't do it, didn't they remember the friend saying the guy had short dreads... which he had?!! I wanted to see his location history. That woulda put him at the scene. Guess it's a good thing he was a good shot. He got the guy intended & didn't hit his friends. I doubt either will get life. If so, definitely parole, especially the one that shot in the air. It's bothersome seeing the cops driving without wearing seatbelts! So irresponsible & unfair!

There were a lot of things disturbing about this case. Kids with guns. Kids getting suspended as you said and not instead being remanded to an alternative school for troubled kids. The 20 year old victim being a violent abuser and robbing people, even though he had an electrician license. Sadly, death or jail was likely going to be his fate anyway, with the way he was living his life. The victim’s ex-girlfriend still loving him with all her heart despite him giving her two black eyes at one point. The detective thinking the one guy was innocent even though there was nothing to prove his story was the truth. The dad of the suspect whose oldest son was due to return from prison within days and now his youngest son was about to go to prison. Him feeling like a failure as a father due his sons’ horrible choices. The youngest son apparently being very smart, smart enough to skip grades and get into a prestigious school but still ending up on the wrong path. SMH. 

This case stirred up a lot of emotions for me, anger, sadness, disappointment etc. There were no winners here. I agree the suspects will likely be out in 20 years since neither had priors. So they’ll still be in their 30s. But any chance they had of reaching their potential will likely be gone. Like the detective said three young lives ruined over nothing. Sad. 

[Enero]

This week’s case with the hit, shoot and run driver was intense. When they were in the standoff at the suspect’s house I thought he was either going to come out of the house with guns blazing or they were going to find him dead inside. 

I was baffled as to why the detectives were treating him with kid gloves when they got him to the station ie asking what he did for a living, repeatedly asking if he was okay with talking them etc. Of course he lawyered up. I don’t know about the detective’s speculation that the suspect might have PTSD. From his non-chalant response to being arrested and the smirk at the press when they asked if the murder was over a hit and run, this guy seems like another POS killing over nothing. The evidence against him doesn’t seem all that strong, no bullet casings in the car, don’t know if they even found the murder weapon. Don’t know if the witness was given the opportunity to positively ID him in a line up, but hopefully the DA will be successful in putting him away. 

[El maestro]

I am still amazed how somebody can be so stupid to buy a gun for a boyfriend/felon who can’t buy it legally.

 

What do you expect the to do?

[mythoughtis]

12 hours ago, El maestro said:

I am still amazed how somebody can be so stupid to buy a gun for a boyfriend/felon who can’t buy it legally.

 

What do you expect the to do?

Same with accepting a used  cell phone from them, or getting in a car you know they didn’t buy.  

[Lindz]

I guessed it was a Corolla from the black FRONT GRILL!! DUHHHHHH!! NONE of them caught that?!! Talk about LUCKY BREAK! That extra footage was EVERYTHING. What SMART person follows someone to a dead end & confronts them?? I mean, really. I think he'll claim self-defense, even though that falls apart when he led them to the dead end & stopped & shot an unarmed man... What a STUPID stand-off!!! It makes NO SENSE to put themselves in danger like that, unless it's an ACTIVE THREAT to life. Cops shouldn't try to apprehend suspects like that, they should wait until they're outside and alone! How useless were those 2 women?? Didn't know if he was there. Didn't have his phone number. USELESS! I hope they tracked his movements to find the gun, let the survivor identify him, & did a GSR test. Crazy how the victim did what the killer did & side-swiped a car! I wouldn't call this Road Rage, it's more like Hit & Run & Follow or Ambush.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Lindz

[Enero]

On 6/2/2021 at 11:34 AM, Lindz said:

I guessed it was a Corolla from the black FRONT GRILL!! DUHHHHHH!! NONE of them caught that?!! Talk about LUCKY BREAK! That extra footage was EVERYTHING. What SMART person follows someone to a dead end & confronts them?? I mean, really. I think he'll claim self-defense, even though that falls apart when he led them to the dead end & stopped & shot an unarmed man... What a STUPID stand-off!!! It makes NO SENSE to put themselves in danger like that, unless it's an ACTIVE THREAT to life. Cops shouldn't try to apprehend suspects like that, they should wait until they're outside and alone! How useless were those 2 women?? Didn't know if he was there. Didn't have his phone number. USELESS! I hope they tracked his movements to find the gun, let the survivor identify him, & did a GSR test. Crazy how the victim did what the killer did & side-swiped a car! I wouldn't call this Road Rage, it's more like Hit & Run & Follow or Ambush.

I think they were lying. Wasn’t one of them his grandmother? How could she not at least know his phone number? And he was lying about being asleep and not hearing his phone or the calls to come out but conveniently answered his messages when his mom text him. 

Though dangerous I think they do the standoff because they want to apprehend the suspect ASAP. They don’t know what he’ll do next but mainly because they might not have the man power or budget to stakeout the residence until the suspect decides to emerge. 

Regarding the victim I think he was shocked by the side swipe and was purely running on adrenaline when he followed the suspect to the dead end.   It was a very unwise decision that unfortunately cost him his life. 

[andromeda331]

The suspects in Caught Up episode were idiots. First shooting the guy in the middle of a busy shopping center and then driving away in a Mustang. Even if you know nothing about cars you know what Mustang looks like. It did make it easier for cops having dozens of witnesses to tell them about the shooting and very identifiable car.  Not to mention the shopping center cameras catching the whole thing.

I forget the name of the episode from last week but they were investigating a homeless man murdered by another homeless man. They were interviewing one of the witnesses and her small bag of chips kept moving. While interviewing her its on the table with a cup, when the detective gets up to leave the bag is crushed up and in the cup. When he comes back with pictures of the suspect the bag is back on the table. When he leaves again its back in the cup. 

[Joan of Argh]

On 5/28/2021 at 4:24 PM, Enero said:

This week’s case with the hit, shoot and run driver was intense. When they were in the standoff at the suspect’s house I thought he was either going to come out of the house with guns blazing or they were going to find him dead inside. 

I was baffled as to why the detectives were treating him with kid gloves when they got him to the station ie asking what he did for a living, repeatedly asking if he was okay with talking them etc. Of course he lawyered up. I don’t know about the detective’s speculation that the suspect might have PTSD. From his non-chalant response to being arrested and the smirk at the press when they asked if the murder was over a hit and run, this guy seems like another POS killing over nothing. The evidence against him doesn’t seem all that strong, no bullet casings in the car, don’t know if they even found the murder weapon. Don’t know if the witness was given the opportunity to positively ID him in a line up, but hopefully the DA will be successful in putting him away. 

The only explanation I heard for them treating him with kid gloves was that he was an ex marine vet who served 4 yrs in Iraq and they were worried that he had PTSD and that’s why he killed the other guy.

I mean I guess there has to be some reason for him killing someone over a fender bender… maybe active duty and killing people drove him nuts? 🤷‍♀️

[NJRadioGuy]

On 8/22/2021 at 4:54 AM, Joan of Argh said:

The only explanation I heard for them treating him with kid gloves was that he was an ex marine vet who served 4 yrs in Iraq and they were worried that he had PTSD and that’s why he killed the other guy.

One of the best interview techniques starts off with asking the suspect or person-of-interest a lot of benign questions, eliciting the longest/best answers possible and maybe even kidding around a bit in the room. Get him talking about nothing. Find out what makes him tick, what makes him open up (or close down). Then go for subjects that he's going to always agree with (damn, the Giants really do suck this year, etc). Affirmative answers.

Then get into the meat of things and if you're lucky you might get something usable before he realizes he's just been sold 40 years worth of Florida swamp land. The stereotypical "good cop" role.

[Enero]

Watched the latest two episodes of The First 48. They’re back with new shows that were filmed last year. The case in Gwinnett County, Georgia, how stupid can you be to call an Uber to take you to the scene where you’re going to commit a murder and after committing the murder you call an Uber to pick you up so that you can flee? On top of that the suspect used his real name for the Uber and had it pick him up from his father’s house! This guy had to be high, utterly stupid or just didn’t care if he got caught. Or perhaps it was all of the above. Glad they caught him but this will definitely go down as one of the dumbest criminal moments I’ve ever seen.

The case from last week in Mobile where the woman called her male friend to “scare” the victim because he was beating her female friend was a mess. First off, I’m surprised the woman who called the male friend wasn’t charged with murder. I’ve seen other cases like this on the show where the person who set up the attack, which is what she essentially did, are also charged. Secondly, it’s unfortunate that the guy who committed the murder f*cked up his life AGAIN. And this time for good. Apparently he’d been in trouble before but was turning his life around, had a legitimate job etc., but now will likely end up spending the rest of his life in prison over a situation that had nothing to do with him, very poor choice. 

Sadly, I didn’t feel for any of the victims in these two cases, except the victims in the Gwinnett County case who unfortunately,  got caught up in the crazy. Thank goodness the kid wasn’t at the house don’t he might’ve been a victim as well. His meth dealer and domestic abuser father I can’t have much sympathy for. The same for the victim in Mobile who abused his girlfriend. 

[NJRadioGuy]

On 10/22/2021 at 7:24 PM, Enero said:

 how stupid can you be to call an Uber to take you to the scene where you’re going to commit a murder and after committing the murder you call an Uber to pick you up so that you can flee? On top of that the suspect used his real name for the Uber and had it pick him up from his father’s house! This guy had to be high, utterly stupid or just didn’t care if he got caught.

Yeah, I'd bet his lawyer is going to play the mental defect card at trial. Something wasn't right between that boy's ears.

But with that said, if I were in the State's Attorney's office I'd be seeking the death penalty for this guy, to be honest. If he actually did what's he's accused of doing he's a textbook case for the bonus round. Or at the very least, agree to take the needle off the table if he spares the families the anguish of a trial and pleads out to a LWOP sentence.

[mythoughtis]

I’m watching the episode called ‘ the dark trail’.  No idea if it was a new episode or not.  I’m only a few minutes in.  The episode opens with the widow talking several months after her spouse is killed in a homeless encampment by two men with guns.   She’s wearing a chain necklace with a large ( at least 5 inches) pistol pendant.  What the w$&@/? 
As the episode unfolds, a witness tells the police about the shooting and then describes the now widow as a gangster type that will want to retaliate against the shooters herself.  Sure enough she tries to deny knowing the shooters and the Tulsa detective calls her on it.  So she gives up a name. 

It just makes me angry that she loses her spouse to gunfire and then casually wears a gun pendant months later.   

Edited December 17, 2021 by mythoughtis

[charming]

She disturbed me waxing poetic about her "relationship" with the homeless man and their tent life of drugs. She was trying to adjust being back in the "real" world while being confused about why her kids were taken away from her?  She was off. 

The suspect with the face full of tats looked at the camera and asked if he was going to be on The First 48. I agree with Jason, he was scary looking.

Every time they're in OK and mention the Quick Trip I get nervous! Everything bad happens at the Quick Trip.

It was a troubling episode.

Edited December 18, 2021 by charming

[Enero]

15 minutes ago, charming said:

She disturbed me waxing poetic about her "relationship" with the homeless man and their tent life of drugs. She was trying to adjust being back in the "real" world while being confused about why her kids were taken away from her?  She was off. 

This. It really was laughable how she and the homeless guy who was a witness was trying to play up their life as them doing what they needed to do to get back on track. When what got them off track was doing what they continued to do…drugs. SMH. It’s always the drugs. No matter how “harmless” it may be, ie weed, will get you killed. Though I think they were selling and using harder drugs than that. 

What was crazy too about this case was that both suspects were in their late 30s approaching 40. I mean to still be gang banging at that age and low in the pecking order at that is pretty sad. 

[NJRadioGuy]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:11 PM, mythoughtis said:

I’m watching the episode called ‘ the dark trail’.  No idea if it was a new episode or not.  I’m only a few minutes in.  The episode opens with the widow talking several months after her spouse is killed in a homeless encampment by two men with guns.   She’s wearing a chain necklace with a large ( at least 5 inches) pistol pendant.  What the w$&@/? 

Yeah, that was a bit messed up, but it didn't really bother me that much. It was indeed a new episode. I don't really have too much disdain for the woman or her late husband. They chose a particularly bad path in life and were skirting the edge of the law, but it's still a terrible thing that happened to him, and indirectly to her. Dope is a cruel mistress.

She's a lost cause, I'm afraid, although one can hope that somehow, sometime, she'll break out of the gangster/dope lifestyle. Probably a stint in prison will be the catalyst, since she's likely headed down that road. Forty years, and Life Without were just sentences for the two scumbags. 

[mythoughtis]

11 minutes ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Yeah, that was a bit messed up, but it didn't really bother me that much. It was indeed a new episode. I don't really have too much disdain for the woman or her late husband. They chose a particularly bad path in life and were skirting the edge of the law, but it's still a terrible thing that happened to him, and indirectly to her. Dope is a cruel mistress.

She's a lost cause, I'm afraid, although one can hope that somehow, sometime, she'll break out of the gangster/dope lifestyle. Probably a stint in prison will be the catalyst, since she's likely headed down that road. Forty years, and Life Without were just sentences for the two scumbags. 

Oh, I agree that the only people responsible for the man’s death are the two people who killed him.  Not her-and I think you described her in just the right way.  Anger was probably the wrong word for me to use.  Disbelief, sadness, recognition that she is a lost cause as you said.  It’s just so senseless that people die over disrespect and I felt like she didn’t recognize that senselessness. 

[charming]

I was also fascinated by Face Tattoo Suspect's girlfriend in the white BMW. How are you a woman looking at that man and deciding this is someone you want a relationship with. What's her story?  I'm so curious about the backstory of everyone involved.

I'm loving the new episodes.

[TVbitch]

Regarding the guy who was shot at the strip club, it always pisses me off when the detectives berate, belittle and shame someone who is afraid to talk or testify cuz they have to live in that neighborhood and are afraid of retaliation. It's so easy for the detectives to say "do the right thing". They just want to solve their case and are not going to do anything to protect these witnesses. They don't have to live in the hood as a snitch every day looking over their shoulder and face that retaliation which is very real, or face putting their family in harms way. 

[andromeda331]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:22 PM, TVbitch said:

Regarding the guy who was shot at the strip club, it always pisses me off when the detectives berate, belittle and shame someone who is afraid to talk or testify cuz they have to live in that neighborhood and are afraid of retaliation. It's so easy for the detectives to say "do the right thing". They just want to solve their case and are not going to do anything to protect these witnesses. They don't have to live in the hood as a snitch every day looking over their shoulder and face that retaliation which is very real, or face putting their family in harms way. 

Yes, they know how things are in that neighborhood but still don't ease off. I was worried that he would end up being the only evidence they had and the killer would go free. But as it turned out they didn't need him at all. They had plenty of witnesses plus video of the whole crime. How stupid and horrible the man was shot over needing to go the bathroom. 

[Lindz]

On 1/20/2022 at 12:22 PM, TVbitch said:

Regarding the guy who was shot at the strip club, it always pisses me off when the detectives berate, belittle and shame someone who is afraid to talk or testify cuz they have to live in that neighborhood and are afraid of retaliation. It's so easy for the detectives to say "do the right thing". They just want to solve their case and are not going to do anything to protect these witnesses. They don't have to live in the hood as a snitch every day looking over their shoulder and face that retaliation which is very real, or face putting their family in harms way. 

There's something wrong with a person choosing to live with a murderer being free in society. How's it feel safer to live with a murderer OUT of prison? How are they not scared of them being free?!! So disturbing. What kind of society is that?!! Not mine. Not one I'd want to be a part of. They need to fix that or they'll keep killing each other off. Makes no sense. I guess that's why they can't be given the responsibility to police their own neighborhoods if they think senseless murder is acceptable. Why would cops even bother responding? Just leave them to deal with everything. Don't bother investigating or anything. It's simple. Don't break the law, you won't go to jail. Don't harm/kill & don't threaten to harm/kill another person & you won't go to jail. That's not allowed & it shouldn't be. It's not about closing a case, someone's DEAD. The killer shouldn't be free to hurt or kill someone else.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lindz

[Lindz]

Ugh. Another change I don't like! First the font & music, now they're starting with someone talking about the dead person, like they usually did at the end? 😒😒 Come on! Start with the 911 call & get to it! It was great the way it was!

[Lindz]

LICENSE PLATE READER FOR THE WIN!!!!! So amazing!!! Soon, everything will be on camera & criminals will be rounded up within minutes of their crime. I can't wait! I wish they had kill switches & could immediately put them down. Save us all the time & money... Strange case. They were there, randomly, to rob a random person? So disturbing. I think the teen was involved & will probably be involved in another crime.

[Lindz]

Man. Those Tulsa cops seem so inept. They just let people lie & don't even follow-up & ask for proof of what they say. The circles to get that convoluted story was RIDICULOUS!!! WHY would that girl set up her own boyfriend to be robbed? It makes NO SENSE!!! A DAMN MESS!!! They didn't even know there was another man there & they let him run loose & what'd he do? Kill someone. SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!! He was in the complex after the killing, WHY didn't they arrested him?!?!!!! Did they drug test the dead guy? So bizarre. A pack of robbers, bringing in people to rob. Convenient & disturbing. 😅😂 I need robbing to stop being a thing. Guns = death. These fools never learn. Who raised these animals?!!!

[Enero]

On 1/22/2022 at 3:26 PM, Lindz said:

There's something wrong with a person choosing to live with a murderer being free in society. How's it feel safer to live with a murderer OUT of prison? How are they not scared of them being free?!! So disturbing. What kind of society is that?!! Not mine. Not one I'd want to be a part of. They need to fix that or they'll keep killing each other off. Makes no sense. I guess that's why they can't be given the responsibility to police their own neighborhoods if they think senseless murder is acceptable

No one has said murder is acceptable, but as @TVbitch said there is extreme risk in being a witness from these high crime neighborhoods. The witness and/or their family members could end up (and have been known to end up) hurt or killed themselves from talking. And sometimes talking is not just about the murderer retaliating but those whom they are affiliated with attacking, especially if the suspect is in some type of gang. It’s a complicated situation that’s not as simple as “doing the right thing.” It’s really easy to throw out that mantra from the comfort of our plush living rooms and nice neighborhoods where the worst crime committed is jaywalking. 
 

On 1/21/2022 at 11:30 PM, andromeda331 said:

Yes, they know how things are in that neighborhood but still don't ease off. I was worried that he would end up being the only evidence they had and the killer would go free. But as it turned out they didn't need him at all. They had plenty of witnesses plus video of the whole crime. How stupid and horrible the man was shot over needing to go the bathroom. 

Ok. That kid though was troubled. When he admitted to the murder he tried to cry, but as soon as the detectives left the room it was back to stone cold. That was extremely disturbing to witness, someone so young being unfeeling about taking a life. 

The case this week was very sad. A 15 year old kid dying over a drug deal gone bad. It was heartbreaking watching the father’s grief. I hope he’s getting some type of therapy and has support from family and friends. He seemed so alone during the follow up interview. Very sad. 

[NJRadioGuy]

14 hours ago, Enero said:

The case this week was very sad. A 15 year old kid dying over a drug deal gone bad. It was heartbreaking watching the father’s grief. I hope he’s getting some type of therapy and has support from family and friends. He seemed so alone during the follow up interview. Very sad. 

I'm trying to figure out why they bleeped out the name of the Mustang driver (Denzel Wilburn) since he was arrested and charged with a related felony. Apparently he's now been indicted on felony murder in the case by a Grand Jury if news reports are correct. Glad that Dillard got locked up for life without parole. He earned that sentence.

As for people doing the right thing--or not--the risk of retaliation is very high if an area is gang infested. But there's also the street culture of not cooperating with what many perceive as an occupying army of their enemy.

[mythoughtis]

3 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

I'm trying to figure out why they bleeped out the name of the Mustang driver (Denzel Wilburn) since he was arrested and charged with a related felony. Apparently he's now been indicted on felony murder in the case by a Grand Jury if news reports are correct. Glad that Dillard got locked up for life without parole. He earned that sentence.

As for people doing the right thing--or not--the risk of retaliation is very high if an area is gang infested. But there's also the street culture of not cooperating with what many perceive as an occupying army of their enemy.

The blurb at the end of the show said the DA declined to pursue any charges against the driver.  Therefore his lawyer might have gotten the editors  to hide his name.  The grand  jury you mention must have happened after the editing of the show was done.  

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by mythoughtis

[friendperidot]

I just discovered this show a couple of months ago. I live in Tulsa, so I find the Tulsa stories the most interesting. I don't hold the TPD in very high regard. I'm about the most law abiding, goody two shoes person you'd ever want to meet, but I've unfortunately had several encounters with the TPD because of my screwed up family. Some have been very helpful, others terrible. I don't like being accused of drug using or abusing any one just because I have rotten family members, but they tend to treat everyone in the family like criminals. 

I quit reading the Tulsa World about 15 years ago and quit watching the local news about 5 years ago for reasons we're not allowed to talk about on this site. When I hear something has happened, and I want to know more, I'll look it up and read a few sources. This show almost makes me consider watching the local news but nah, it's not worth the aggravation.

Edited March 5, 2022 by friendperidot
don't know where that P at the beginning came from

[Enero]

The case this week was just awful. That Ben guy was a POS. How awful to command dogs  (pit bulls) to attack his love rival out of jealousy.  They said CJ had injuries over 90% of his body and his parents said he was unrecognizable when they went to view his body. Even when Ben  learned CJ had died he didn’t respond. He didn’t care that CJ was dead. And unfortunately the poor dogs became victims in this too as they were put down due to the attack. SMH.

Sidebar - The Tulsa detectives can be so unprofessional. When interviewing the witnesses they oftentimes seemed to leading the witnesses a bit with their statements. I hope the case holds up in court. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Enero

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, Enero said:

The case this week was just awful. That Ben guy was a POS. How awful to command dogs  (pit bulls) to attack his love rival out of jealousy.  They said CJ had injuries over 90% of his body and his parents said he was unrecognizable when they went to view his body. Even when Ben  learned CJ had died he didn’t respond. He didn’t care that CJ was dead. And unfortunately the poor dogs became victims in this too as they were put down due to the attack. SMH.

Sidebar - The Tulsa detectives can be so unprofessional. When interviewing the witnesses they oftentimes seemed to leading the witnesses a bit with their statements. I hope the case holds up in court. 

He was definitely not a decent person.  That was apparent from his first interview through his arrest.   Every third word was foul language, cussed out the camera crew, bragged our his rehabilitation. 
I feel sorry for the little girl.  Mom hops from one boyfriend to another, tries to have both boyfriends, lies for the one that killed the other.  Finally came clean.  
I also felt sorry for the witness.  No idea why she didn’t come forward without being asked, but she was obviously shocked and afraid.  I would think that the police also interviewed the neighbor who tried to scare off the dogs with the gunshot.  Maybe they did but  didn’t air it because he wasn’t supposed to have a gun. 

[Enero]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

He was definitely not a decent person.  That was apparent from his first interview through his arrest.   Every third word was foul language, cussed out the camera crew, bragged our his rehabilitation. 
I feel sorry for the little girl.  Mom hops from one boyfriend to another, tries to have both boyfriends, lies for the one that killed the other.  Finally came clean.  
I also felt sorry for the witness.  No idea why she didn’t come forward without being asked, but she was obviously shocked and afraid.  I would think that the police also interviewed the neighbor who tried to scare off the dogs with the gunshot.  Maybe they did but  didn’t air it because he wasn’t supposed to have a gun. 

I agree with everything said here, especially the comment about the little girl. She likely has a tough road ahead  with her mom’s revolving door of boyfriends whose characters are shady at best. There was also mention that both guys with whom she was involved has/had substance abuse issues. So I’m guessing she may have similar issues as well. The little girl witnessed what happened and will likely be traumatized for life from it unless she gets therapy. Very unfortunate situation for her.

[andromeda331]

Yeah, that murder was completely messed up. Siccing dogs on him? That poor man and those poor dogs. I did like that his family didn't hold anything against the dogs. How sad that the victim loved and had pitbulls of his own?

I feel for the daughter too. She's going to be very messed up. Poor kid.

[Lindz]

YAY! They went back to starting with the 911 call!!! I hope they keep it that way. It's weird seeing family members talking about the person & we don't even know who they are or what happened.

[Lindz]

Idk about the Darrin Wilson case. He was stealing from people & I can't help but think he was gunna use that gun he was trying to buy to rob people and potentially kill them. If that was his future, then I find his murder protected who he could've harmed. If they want to know what happened, they should enlist one of those legit psychics. Maybe he stole from a "friend" & they killed him. Weren't there tire tracks? Did the foam trace back to a certain car? Did they dump the nearby cell tower? Any security cams from the basketball court to where he was dumped? It seems like they're relying on the DNA too much.

[NJRadioGuy]

On 3/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, Enero said:

Sidebar - The Tulsa detectives can be so unprofessional. When interviewing the witnesses they oftentimes seemed to leading the witnesses a bit with their statements. I hope the case holds up in court. 

Not just Tulsa. And a number of them they seem to phrase their on-scene witness questions poorly as well. "You didn't happen to hear gunshots last night did you?" Instead of "What time did you hear gunshots last night," or "how many shots did you hear?"

If they have a shooting suspect in for questioning within a couple of hours why aren't they administering GSR tests first thing on arrival? Or maybe that's something they don't like showing for some reason? Then assuming they test positive you have a valid line of questioning.

Or you can totally bulls#!+ the suspect. I remember one detective I met a long time ago would say that the perp "failed the GSR test, and from the sample our CSI people took, we matched it to the scene. Can you explain how the gunpowder residue on your hands exactly matches the powder taken from the dead body and the empty shell casings?" I'd bet less than 50% would laugh in the cops' faces when asked that.

For that matter, I'm frankly surprised that they don't out and out trick suspects a lot more. Maybe that's a northeast tactic more than it is down south?

[Enero]

8 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

For that matter, I'm frankly surprised that they don't out and out trick suspects a lot more. Maybe that's a northeast tactic more than it is down south?

Perhaps it is based on what tactics  the detectives are trained to use when interrogating a suspect? Illinois and Oregon have banned deception when interrogating a suspect who’s a minor. And as I understand a couple of other states are considering the same measure. I think some states does not allow detectives to outright lie about what evidence has been obtained related to the crime. They can stretch the truth about that evidence ie we have video of you on the scene, but in truth the video is unclear. They can’t outright lie and say they have video of the crime with the suspect identified on camera if they have no video at all. This could also be why some jurisdictions don’t use deception to ensure there are no issues with the charges if filed. 

It’ll be interesting to see if more states eventually get onboard with banning deception when interrogating a minor.

[NJRadioGuy]

21 hours ago, Enero said:

Perhaps it is based on what tactics  the detectives are trained to use when interrogating a suspect? Illinois and Oregon have banned deception when interrogating a suspect who’s a minor. And as I understand a couple of other states are considering the same measure. I think some states does not allow detectives to outright lie about what evidence has been obtained related to the crime. They can stretch the truth about that evidence ie we have video of you on the scene, but in truth the video is unclear. They can’t outright lie and say they have video of the crime with the suspect identified on camera if they have no video at all. This could also be why some jurisdictions don’t use deception to ensure there are no issues with the charges if filed. 

It’ll be interesting to see if more states eventually get onboard with banning deception when interrogating a minor.

Depends on the case for me. If you have an irredeemable predator who just happens to be 17 years and 11 months old I have no sympathy, but an impressionable 15 YO who falls in with the wrong crowd and ends up doing 30 years for taking part in something stupid after an interview, yeah, that would haunt me.

To me, I think the best tactics are to ask things like "You were arrested in 2015, so we have your fingerprints and DNA on file. You're going to need to explain how your fingerprints were found on the car" (even if in fact they weren't). Ask a lot of leading questions rather than neutral: "So after you left the gray Chevy on Smith Street who did you go to see" vs "Were you in a gray Chevy the other night?" Or if you're not going to do that, one very effective sales tool is to ask a bunch of simple easy things where the answer is always 'yes.' Get friendly and ask them interspersed with other chatter. Then land a bigger question that isn't "did you shoot Fred Smith?" but rather "Were you on Pine Street with Dan Jones the other night?"

[auntjess]

I'm watching a Kansas City, KS episode, and instead of a lineup of photos, they show the witness just the photo of the suspect.
I didn't think that was done.

[NJRadioGuy]

12 hours ago, auntjess said:

I'm watching a Kansas City, KS episode, and instead of a lineup of photos, they show the witness just the photo of the suspect.
I didn't think that was done.

Depends on the circumstance. I forget that episode specifically, but I've seen it done in a number of other cases, from different departments. If they know that Joe Blow was the guy but just can't prove it, or need corroboration, they can show the witness a single picture and ask "Who's this? What do you know him as?" etc. "Oh, that's my ex, L'il Joe." Cross-reference in the database and boom.

It could definitely give a defense lawyer something to work with, but if the detectives don't have anything else concrete it's worth a try, I guess. Or at least one extra piece of evidence in the folder that can add up to a solid case if they can prove other elements of the crime.

[mythoughtis]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:38 PM, auntjess said:

I'm watching a Kansas City, KS episode, and instead of a lineup of photos, they show the witness just the photo of the suspect.
I didn't think that was done.

It depends.  If the suspect is someone the witness knows, then they are just trying to match up the name with the face or confirm that this face is ‘ little man’. Often these witnesses know the face and the ‘street name’, but they don’t know the ‘legal’ name. That seems to be when they use a single photo.  Otherwise they use a six pack if the witness doesn’t know the person, 

[Lindz]

How do THREE people get shot??? I just can't make sense of it. I need to see some trajectory!!! Was his hand in front of her face? She's dumb for staying there with them playing with guns. She didn't deserve to be shot. It doesn't make her any less dead. It's hard to believe it wasn't intentional. You have to pull the trigger. Dumb kids playing with guns. How fun. The cop shouldn't have told him he wasn't going home. Maybe he would've actually said some version of what happened. They all lie, they don't deserve the truth!

[Lindz]

Gotta love when the murderer ACTS guilty & avoids the family! It's so much worse when they act normal, like they're grieving & want the murderer caught. It takes too long for the phone records to come in! He's a murderer on the loose! HURRY UP! They couldn't find out he was supposedly at the motel BEFORE him returning their call???? Like check his credit card charges? They couldn't find out he had a .40 caliber gun before he told them?? It seemed like they did nothing to investigate him & just waited for him to call them back. I hope that's not the case cuz that's ridiculous. People shouldn't be interviewed over the phone. You can't see them, their reactions, & their body language. Although, he's the type of killer that denies it with a straight face. So disturbing! Glad they arrested him!

[mythoughtis]

I am glad they caught the guy that killed  the brothers  while they were sleeping.  Although I still don’t really understand the motive. The older brother had kids and a job.  The suspect didn’t.  That’s the whole motive?  - what was he supposed to gain?  The kids and the job weren’t going to become his afterwards.   

[Enero]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:44 AM, Lindz said:

People shouldn't be interviewed over the phone. You can't see them, their reactions, & their body language. Although, he's the type of killer that denies it with a straight face. So disturbing! Glad they arrested him!

I agree. But wasn’t the issue that he was missing and they had no idea where he was? They’d been calling him but his phone would go straight to voicemail. When he finally called in I think they just went ahead and interviewed him over the phone. With the way he was obviously dodging the police they probably thought they may not get an opportunity to interview him again. So they just did it when they finally had him on the phone.

On 5/20/2022 at 6:46 PM, mythoughtis said:

I am glad they caught the guy that killed  the brothers  while they were sleeping.  Although I still don’t really understand the motive. The older brother had kids and a job.  The suspect didn’t.  That’s the whole motive?  - what was he supposed to gain?  The kids and the job weren’t going to become his afterwards.   

When finally caught the suspect looked disheveled and a little out of it. Maybe this was due to him being on the run for several weeks, but I wondered if he was just unstable. The motive could really be envy. Though killing the guy wouldn’t get him the life he wanted, he probably couldn’t stand to see someone so close to him live the life he wanted. The mom said he lived with the brothers at one point then moved out. Maybe he was asked to leave which may have been the trigger for him to murder them. 

[mythoughtis]

Episode called Freestyle.  A would  be rapper, homeless, found dead in the road. 
I am  watching the interviews of the people found with the suspect at the time of his arrest.  One of them is a young woman  who graduated high school at 15, and went to college.  Yet, here she is in the company of a meth head   murder suspect.  
The second is a crazy guy in his own right, who doesn’t really know the name of the suspect  he was with, but knows he killed a guy.    The third, a woman, was in the car with the suspect when he shot the rapper.   Yet somehow the first woman knows  nothing about the murder. 
Can I just say that it floors me how people can continue to associate with someone they know killed a person and who is being searched for by the police? 

Edited July 10, 2022 by mythoughtis

[TVbitch]

I guess drugs will do that to you. They don't appear to value life much, including their own, seeing as they were all crashing with a crazy drug addled car stealing murderer whose name they didn't even know.  

Don't blame Ronnie for declining to continue that interview. 

[Lindz]

I guessed the car was a Toyota Carolla from the front grill & compact size. I don't even know cars like that. Lucky guess. WTF was that murderer's deal? He must've still been high. Weirdo. Same for that other guy. Fish scale? HUH?! The witness didn't explain the gun. When did he brandish it? Did he have it out the whole time? WHERE IS IT? WHERE'D THEY GO AFTER THE MURDER? WHAT'D THEY DO? The story doesn't end at the murder. 😒

[Lindz]

Ugh. That FOOL! Thinking he sounds so smart saying he pleads the fifth. Um. You're NOT on trial! You're NOT being deposed! You sound GUILTY AS HELL!!! He meant to request an attorney but he's so methed out of his mind he kept pleading the fifth. I hope he gets life without parole. He shot that guy & dumped him on the side of the road over nothing. Maybe it was drug paranoia or drug irritability. Thinking he was rapping about him makes no sense. Either way, it's another case of drugs = death.

[NJRadioGuy]

Tangentially relating to The First 48, I just happened to catch a show called Crime 360, which is basically the same premise as this show but with more reliance on forensic evidence collection. What makes this interesting is the Season 1 Episode 9 episode called Bad Blood, from 2008, which was the first case in Homicide for Cleveland Det. Tom Armelli when he was just a Padawan. The lead in the case was Det. Veverk who I really wish had been on First 48 because he really was camera friendly. His partner at the time was Kathleen Karlin, so another familiar face. I think that show only lasted two seasons, which was unfortunate.

[Enero]

On 7/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, mythoughtis said:

Episode called Freestyle.  A would  be rapper, homeless, found dead in the road. 
I am  watching the interviews of the people found with the suspect at the time of his arrest.  One of them is a young woman  who graduated high school at 15, and went to college.  Yet, here she is in the company of a meth head   murder suspect.  
The second is a crazy guy in his own right, who doesn’t really know the name of the suspect  he was with, but knows he killed a guy.    The third, a woman, was in the car with the suspect when he shot the rapper.   Yet somehow the first woman knows  nothing about the murder. 
Can I just say that it floors me how people can continue to associate with someone they know killed a person and who is being searched for by the police? 

On 7/11/2022 at 11:05 AM, TVbitch said:

I guess drugs will do that to you. They don't appear to value life much, including their own, seeing as they were all crashing with a crazy drug addled car stealing murderer whose name they didn't even know.  

Don't blame Ronnie for declining to continue that interview. 

This. The drugs had destroyed all logic for everyone involved. 

Just watched this episode. It was sad seeing all these young kids throwing their lives away on drugs. The victim apparently got into meth, of all things, because he wanted to fit in. Sad. 
 

The suspect looked and sounded like the meth had left him a few cans short of a six pack. He was paranoid and crazy and looking for someone to kill. I think he sought out the victim and would’ve killed him whether he was rapping in the back seat or not.