Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[Celia Rubenstein]

Lotus you seem to believe that what you see on screen is all there is to a person and her life. I happen to believe there is a lot more to someone than what we are shown by Bravo.  I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. 

[Almost 3000]

Great recipe but it just doesn't reflect the bottled version.  It is more like cheap tequila and some nasty Crystal Lite affectation.

Exactly!

[LotusFlower]

Lotus you seem to believe that what you see on screen is all there is to a person and her life. I happen to believe there is a lot more to someone than what we are shown by Bravo.  I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

No, my comments were strictly about Bethenny, not everyone on reality TV or Bravo. She has opened up every single facet of her life, and she's proud of this fact. And she's done so on Bravo, on RHONY, but also on her two spin-offs that were devoted to her life alone, televised therapy sessions, a non-Bravo talk show, books, a speaking tour, and I'm sure I could go on and on. She talks openly and candidly about her mother, her father, her stepfather, her husband, her kid, her employees, her dog, other Housewives, etc... And yet she leaves out her friends? We know everything about her because she wants us to. She might have some deep, dark secrets (we all have stuff we don't want others to know), but having friends is not something you keep secret. Certainly not in Bethenny's world, whose life is an open book.

[Celia Rubenstein]

No, my comments were strictly about Bethenny, not everyone on reality TV or Bravo. She has opened up every single facet of her life, and she's proud of this fact. And she's done so on Bravo, on RHONY, but also on her two spin-offs that were devoted to her life alone, televised therapy sessions, a non-Bravo talk show, books, a speaking tour, and I'm sure I could go on and on. She talks openly and candidly about her mother, her father, her stepfather, her husband, her kid, her employees, her dog, other Housewives, etc... And yet she leaves out her friends? We know everything about her because she wants us to. She might have some deep, dark secrets (we all have stuff we don't want others to know), but having friends is not something you keep secret. Certainly not in Bethenny's world, whose life is an open book.

 

I don't hear anyone else talking about their friends on the show, either. It doesn't mean they don't have any.

 

Look, I think this topic is pretty worn out, to be honest.  I've said all I have to say on the matter.  You can continue if you choose, but I will be napping.  Someone wake me up when this is over. Zzzzzz.

[WireWrap]

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/04/24/see_the_42m_home_of_real_housewives_bethenny_frankel.php

Was this posted? I guess she's not homeless anymore, and I'm also guessing that she's going to sell the apartment where Jason is living.

I gather that the second bedroom shown is Bryn's room but it looks like a standard guest room, not that of a child! JMO

[LotusFlower]

I don't hear anyone else talking about their friends on the show, either. It doesn't mean they don't have any.

I feel like I've repeatedly discussed why Bethenny is different than the other HW's. Not sure why you gloss over that. But I don't care, either! Zzzz....

[breezy424]

What I find weird, and others have too, is Bethenny wanting Bryn's nanny to be her legal guardian.  I believe the reason why Julie was asked to be the godmother because she is Catholic and Bryn was baptized in the Catholic church.  If Beth was going to ask an employee to be a legal guardian, why didn't she ask Julie or even Terry (?) from Florida?

 

IIRC, when Beth had her bridal shower (or maybe it was the baby shower), there were 'friends' there.  Wasn't one of them a woman with a baby?  Maybe Or am I confusing this with another reality show?  I do believe that many of the housewives have friends that they never mention because the friends want nothing to do with it.  However, Beth's selection of a legal guardian is a bit baffling and it makes we wonder if she really is close to anyone.

Edited May 25, 2015 by breezy424

[LotusFlower]

What I find weird, and others have too, is Bethenny wanting Bryn's nanny to be her legal guardian.  I believe the reason why Julie was asked to be the godmother because she is Catholic and Bryn was baptized in the Catholic church.  If Beth was going to ask an employee to be a legal guardian, why didn't she ask Julie or even Terry (?) from Florida?

 

IIRC, when Beth had her bridal shower (or maybe it was the baby shower), there were 'friends' there.  Wasn't one of them a woman with a baby?  Maybe Or am I confusing this with another reality show?  I do believe that many of the housewives have friends that they never mention because the friends want nothing to do with it.  However, Beth's selection of a legal guardian is a bit baffling and it makes we wonder if she really is close to anyone.

That's a good point. Come to think of it, I don't remember anyone throwing Bethenny a bridal or baby shower. That's fine if you're the type who doesn't like showers, but kind of a red flag if you're producing a reality show around getting married and having a baby. With producers looking for storylines and events to film.

The naming of the nanny as Bryn's guardian was weird to me, too. Does anyone remember why Jason's parents weren't named? Or if there was discussion about this?

[MatildaMoody]

I gather that the second bedroom shown is Bryn's room but it looks like a standard guest room, not that of a child! JMO

 

Is this the apartment she bought with Jason or the new one. The article didn't specify.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Beth admitting that she's the tortured one in a relationship. Interesting because some posters said that Jason stamped B with that label:

http://www.bravotv.com/bethenny-ever-after/season-3/episode-303/videos?clip=17959556

 

I don't think that is the clip (or the language) people were referring to when discussing how Jason used Bethenny's confessions of vulnerability against her to tear her down and manipulate her.  IIRC, it was a far less jovial scene from the episode "There is No Normal" where Jason reminds Bethenny she is "damaged" and "not normal" and she should do things his way because her way is messed up. He was pressuring her to visit his parents more often.  I believe they were outdoors on a rooftop, and it ended badly with Bethenny being very upset that Jason would do that to her. It was nothing like the clip you posted. 

[breezy424]

That's a good point. Come to think of it, I don't remember anyone throwing Bethenny a bridal or baby shower. That's fine if you're the type who doesn't like showers, but kind of a red flag if you're producing a reality show around getting married and having a baby. With producers looking for storylines and events to film.

The naming of the nanny as Bryn's guardian was weird to me, too. Does anyone remember why Jason's parents weren't named? Or if there was discussion about this?

IIRC Beth did not want Jason's parents as legal guardians because of their age. 

[WireWrap]

I found a recap that mentions it:

http://www.realitytea.com/2012/05/01/bethenny-ever-after-bombshells-on-the-beach/

Here is the scene where she asks Veronica to be her guardian

http://www.bravotv.com/bethenny-ever-after/season-3/episode-311/videos?clip=18341230#

ETA: I found another recap that mentioned the fact that Veronica was the third nanny for Brynn. Hmm.

 

Does anyone know if Veronica still works for Bethenny?

[breezy424]

I don't think that is the clip (or the language) people were referring to when discussing how Jason used Bethenny's confessions of vulnerability against her to tear her down and manipulate her.  IIRC, it was a far less jovial scene from the episode "There is No Normal" where Jason reminds Bethenny she is "damaged" and "not normal" and she should do things his way because her way is messed up. He was pressuring her to visit his parents more often.  I believe they were outdoors on a rooftop, and it ended badly with Bethenny being very upset that Jason would do that to her. It was nothing like the clip you posted. 

I think the point that so many posters are making is that it was Beth who labeled herself as being broken and damaged.  It was not something invented by Jason.  So yes, Jason has brought it up to Beth but he didn't come up with it.  She did.  And IMO that makes a difference. 

 

And for me, this is an excuse made by Beth to justify her behavior and was the reason why in the heat of an argument, Jason would use her declarations about herself.  I honestly don't remember the scene you are referring to (not saying it didn't happen). 

[sleekandchic]

IIRC Beth did not want Jason's parents as legal guardians because of their age.

I have a clear memory of a TH Bethenny did in that episode. She said it was important to her that Bryn grow up doing "girly things," like getting her nails done, and she knew Veronica would make sure that happened. Bethenny actually wiggled her fingers to illustrate a manicure, too. Lol.

I remember thinking, geez, I'm sure Pennsylvania has plenty of nail salons. And, more important, I thought, yeah that's a really good reason to choose a person as your child's potential guardian.

And putting aside the elder Hoppys, didn't B consider Julie or Teri trustworthy enough to get manicures for Bryn? Oy.

Edited May 25, 2015 by sleekandchic

[sleekandchic]

I went looking for a recap of the episode where Bethenny first tells Jason about her legal-guardian decision because I wanted to see if anyone else picked up on that ridiculous TH about doing girly things. (gimi, your recap link was the second of the two shows in Mexico, when they tell Veronica their decision. The week before is the lengthier discussion between B and J, re legal custody.)

This recap doesnt mention that TH interlude, but it does describe the first part of the Mexican trip that celebrates a B birthday. The breakdown of the marriage is sadly on full display:

http://www.jewishjournal.com/keepingitreal/item/a_bethenny_blog_for_ireland_20120426

Edited May 25, 2015 by sleekandchic

[WireWrap]

Sleekandchic, I loled at this from the site you linked: "Sidebar: I think the best thing Bethenny can do for herself is get in touch with Jill Zarin."

That is a good site for past recaps, they write about Beth and Jill in-depth.

Looking at clips/summaries of clips on the Bravo site was depressing. They all had captions like "Bethenny breaks down," "Not liking each other after marriage?" "Bethenny confronts Jason over X/Y/Z"

Beth is exhausting and has massive insecurities. No man will be enough for that woman because she demands too much from one person. I'm actually getting Davina (Married at First Sight) vibes at times. I'd forgotten the insecurity. She needs a good therapist and to commit to the process if she wants to have a successful long-term relationship with a man besides Andy Cohen.

IMO, just mine, Bethenny loves the courtship but then questions why the guy wants her and pushes him away before he does her. 

[zoeysmom]

IMO, just mine, Bethenny loves the courtship but then questions why the guy wants her and pushes him away before he does her. 

 

 

Nailed it.

I'm sure her money will magnify this insecurity.

Bethenny is beginning to remind me of the fictional character played by Richard Gere in Pretty Woman,  Edward Lewis, who invented wanting more. 

 

I remember her with Jason, Season 1 and wanting him to move in, and looking for property and wanting to discuss it on camera, and getting fired from his job for being on a reality show http://pagesix.com/2008/04/05/housewives-costs-exec-his-job/.  I think he ended up dumping her after she threatened to stab Jill Zarin in the fucking eyes with her chop sticks over yet a long series of bad birthday celebrations.  She is one of the most aggressive female and in the case of Jason Season 1 he walked in time.  Jason Season 3 seemed to drink the Skinny Girl and seemed to think there was a future besides reality star and Page 6 dad.

 

I watched Bethenny and her spin offs and between the incredible number of "I love yous" back and forth and re-enacting when they met this is a woman who was on the hunt and thought she found the perfect piece of clay to form into the perfect Mr. Frankel.  I noticed in Bethenny's most recent pleadings the argument is over whether they took vacations or they were all just for work.  Watching Bethenny became all about her next great idea and having a youthful crew and staff around her at all times so there was never a minute she didn't not have to work.

 

I found giving Veronica legal and physical custody of her child ludicrous.  Even Bethenny with her showing off could not have possibly thought it cute or clever to base something as serious as guardianship of an orphan over their ability to see to things in life like manis and pedis.  I always thought of it more as a keep the child away fro Bob and Carole.   

[Celia Rubenstein]

I always thought of it more as a keep the child away fro Bob and Carole.

 

 

I don't know anything about the person Beth picked as a guardian, but I can understand why she didn't wouldn't want to leave her child with the Hoppys.  They are way too old.  I know, I know ...  some people are lucky to have even an old person take them in and they are grateful for whatever home they get and it can work out, of course I know all that. But it would not be my first choice if Bryn were my child. Not if I had an alternative. I would want her with someone who has a lot more years ahead of them to be there for Bryn.  Someone who might actually provide siblings and a family environment for her.  The Hoppys can't offer that.  It is far more likely that Bryn will end up being their caregiver as they age rather than the other way around.  She shouldn't be stuck with that responsibility.  At least not the hands on responsibility, which is far more likely to happen if she was living with them.  If they needed help funding senior living, fine. She could contribute to that if needed, but no way should that child end up changing the Hoppy's diapers.

 

I don't even want to get started on what clingy, needy people they are.  They raised a son who feels he has to devote most of his free time to them because their other son died, even though it made his wife miserable and contributed to his marriage failing. It wouldn't be any different with Bryn.  It would actually be worse because if Bryn were living with them, it would be because Jason was dead, too.  I can't imagine the claws those two old people would sink into that little girl if that ever happened.  No way should she grow up with the same burden Jason has had to live with, making up for his brother's absence.  That is not his job, and I can see why Bethenny would never want it to become Bryn's job either. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Mozelle]

IMO, just mine, Bethenny loves the courtship but then questions why the guy wants her and pushes him away before he does her. 

 

She's the real-life Don Draper. I remember when Faye told Don: "You only like the beginning of things."

[LotusFlower]

She's the real-life Don Draper. I remember when Faye told Don: "You only like the beginning of things."

I love this!

[LotusFlower]

I watched Bethenny and her spin offs and between the incredible number of "I love yous" back and forth and re-enacting when they met this is a woman who was on the hunt and thought she found the perfect piece of clay to form into the perfect Mr. Frankel.

Here's a scene that really stood out to me - Bethenny gave Jason a new Mac laptop computer as a gift (either birthday or Christmas), which he loved and apparently had coveted and thanked her for. But she wanted him to quit his job and work full-time for Skinnygirl, which he was wavering over, and she said the purpose of the laptop was for Skinnygirl business. So basically it was a gift with strings attached, which I hate!. I remember it created tension, because he loved the laptop and wanted to keep it, but he had reservations about quitting his job, so it was awkward. Talk about using money to manipulate people.

I found giving Veronica legal and physical custody of her child ludicrous.  Even Bethenny with her showing off could not have possibly thought it cute or clever to base something as serious as guardianship of an orphan over their ability to see to things in life like manis and pedis.  I always thought of it more as a keep the child away fro Bob and Carole.

It was totally about the Hoppys. God forbid Bryn have a family.

[WireWrap]

I don't know anything about the person Beth picked as a guardian, but I can understand why she didn't wouldn't want to leave her child with the Hoppys.  They are way too old.  I know, I know ...  some people are lucky to have even an old person take them in and they are grateful for whatever home they get and it can work out, of course I know all that. But it would not be my first choice if Bryn were my child. Not if I had an alternative. I would want her with someone who has a lot more years ahead of them to be there for Bryn.  Someone who might actually provide siblings and a family environment for her.  The Hoppys can't offer that.  It is far more likely that Bryn will end up being their caregiver as they age rather than the other way around.  She shouldn't be stuck with that responsibility.  At least not the hands on responsibility, which is far more likely to happen if she was living with them.  If they needed help funding senior living, fine. She could contribute to that if needed, but no way should that child end up changing the Hoppy's diapers.

 

I don't even want to get started on what clingy, needy people they are.  They raised a son who feels he has to devote most of his free time to them because their other son died, even though it made his wife miserable and contributed to his marriage failing. It wouldn't be any different with Bryn.  It would actually be worse because if Bryn were living with them, it would be because Jason was dead, too.  I can't imagine the claws those two old people would sink into that little girl if that ever happened.  No way should she grow up with the same burden Jason has had to live with, making up for his brother's absence.  That is not his job, and I can see why Bethenny would never want it to become Bryn's job either. 

What little we all saw of the Hoppy's in no way showed them as "clingy" or demanding towards Jason, Bethenny and Bryn IMO. I also did not see them guilt anyone into spending time with them just because 1 son died. That may be the "story" Bethenny used or tried to use because she did not want any extended family, in any way shape or form. Why is it so hard to believe that Jason wants to spend time with his parents and wants them in his/Bryn's life because he loves them, he likes them and he enjoys their company?  Why is it so hard to believe that the Hoppy Sr's are good to and for Bryn and are not trying to use her to replace their dead son?

 

I also do not see where the Hoppy's would expect their grand daughter to take care of them when they are no longer able to care for themselves. That, IMO, is reaching for something not there just to vilify the Hoppys so that Bethenny comes out looking less like an idiot for naming someone she knew very little about as Bryn's legal guardian. Had Bethenny just said it was an age thing, no problem, but then name someone, a close personal friend as the guardian, not someone she knew for a few months as an employee. What makes anyone think that when this woman, the guardian, marries and/or has children of her own that she would treat Bryn like her own, most times that does not happen YMMV though. Is this person still working for Bethenny and if not, is she still present in Bryn's life?

[Grneyedldy]

I was wondering to myself this morning (yes I think about this stupid show way too much) about why are Bravo and Bethenny going with the "raised by wolves" storyline? It's been done already complete with cringe worthy therapy sessions. Then it dawned on me........that's all she had to offer. Now don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few that doesn't dislike Bethenny. I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm a fan, but I do enjoy watching her on the show. Anyway back to my epiphany......she can't show Bryn and their relationship on the show, so there goes the mother angle. Even though she had a boyfriend during filming, he wanted no part of the show, so there goes the romantic relationship angle. I'm pretty sure she has to be careful talking about certain aspects of her divorce, though I'm surprised she's said as much as she has. So that leaves her with her 'Empire" and her new apartment reno. I imagine we will see more of both, but I think she agreed to go deeper into her past (or maybe it was her idea?) to shock the viewers (ya know, kinda sorta). We heard about guns, beatings, mafia, suicide attempts and the like. I can even picture B discussing it with Andy, both of them trying to come up with something good to film. Now the big payoff would be getting Bethenny and her mother together on film.

[WireWrap]

I was wondering to myself this morning (yes I think about this stupid show way too much) about why are Bravo and Bethenny going with the "raised by wolves" storyline? It's been done already complete with cringe worthy therapy sessions. Then it dawned on me........that's all she had to offer. Now don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few that doesn't dislike Bethenny. I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm a fan, but I do enjoy watching her on the show. Anyway back to my epiphany......she can't show Bryn and their relationship on the show, so there goes the mother angle. Even though she had a boyfriend during filming, he wanted no part of the show, so there goes the romantic relationship angle. I'm pretty sure she has to be careful talking about certain aspects of her divorce, though I'm surprised she's said as much as she has. So that leaves her with her 'Empire" and her new apartment reno. I imagine we will see more of both, but I think she agreed to go deeper into her past (or maybe it was her idea?) to shock the viewers (ya know, kinda sorta). We heard about guns, beatings, mafia, suicide attempts and the like. I can even picture B discussing it with Andy, both of them trying to come up with something good to film. Now the big payoff would be getting Bethenny and her mother together on film.

I agree that there is very little of her real life that she is either able to show or willing to show so that leaves her past. It helps that this is what got Bethenny so much support to begin with and I think she leapt at the chance to redeem her image/likeability because she lost a lot of fans during her own spinoff's, her divorce/custody battles and her talk show.  IMO, they are pulling the poor child Bethenny to rehab her image for future product sales. JMO 

[Celia Rubenstein]

What little we all saw of the Hoppy's in no way showed them as "clingy" 

 

To allow your son to make spending every weekend with you a huge issue in his marriage sounds clingy to me.  And selfish.

 

 

 I also do not see where the Hoppy's would expect their grand daughter to take care of them when they are no longer able to care for themselves. 

 

I never said the Hoppy's would expect Brynn to care for them.  It is more a matter of what Bryn might expect from herself.   I saw the reality of the situation more than once as I was growing up.  Someone ended up living with their grandparents and they were guilt ridden about moving out and getting on with their lives because right at the time they were old enough to do so, their grandparents were getting old and frail.  It is a valid concern as a parent, and something I would be thinking about when considering making grandparents the guardian, however benevolent they may be.

 

That, IMO, is reaching for something not there just to vilify the Hoppys so that Bethenny comes out looking less like an idiot for naming someone she knew very little about as Bryn's legal guardian.

 

 

I think the person being vilified is Bethenny.  It was not her decision alone.  Jason agreed.  It was a decision they made together.

 

Had Bethenny just said it was an age thing, no problem, but then name someone, a close personal friend as the guardian, not someone she knew for a few months as an employee.

 

But she did say it was an age thing. To the extent that she chose someone unsuitable, I can't judge. I don't know the woman.  But Jason did know her and he agreed, so that is all I can add in that respect.

 

I can even picture B discussing it with Andy, both of them trying to come up with something good to film. Now the big payoff would be getting Bethenny and her mother together on film.

 

I can totally picture Andy Cohen alone in his darkened little clubhouse, lighting the abundance candles and PRAYING for this to become a reality.  It would be a reality television gold.  

[Otherkate]

Ugh, God, I couldn't stand Jason or the Hoppys. I couldn't even finish watching her spinoff because of them. No thanks.

 

No doubt that Bethenny is majorly messed up and that's not surprising, all things considered. I'm not at all comfortable with questioning what level of abuse (emotional or physical) someone has endured and how they should respond to it, nor how quickly. That said, the woman needs a really good therapist and preferably she meet with him or her not on this show. I can't stand watching anyone in therapy sessions on any of these shows. Blerg.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Otherkate

[WireWrap]

To allow your son to make spending every weekend with you a huge issue in his marriage sounds clingy to me.  And selfish.

 

 

 

I never said the Hoppy's would expect Brynn to care for them.  It is more a matter of what Bryn might expect from herself.   I saw the reality of the situation more than once as I was growing up.  Someone ended up living with their grandparents and they were guilt ridden about moving out and getting on with their lives because right at the time they were old enough to do so, their grandparents were getting old and frail.  It is a valid concern as a parent, and something I would be thinking about when considering making grandparents the guardian, however benevolent they may be.

 

 

I think the person being vilified is Bethenny.  It was not her decision alone.  Jason agreed.  It was a decision they made together.

 

 

But she did say it was an age thing. To the extent that she chose someone unsuitable, I can't judge. I don't know the woman.  But Jason did know her and he agreed, so that is all I can add in that respect.

 

 

I can totally picture Andy Cohen alone in his darkened little clubhouse, lighting the abundance candles and PRAYING for this to become a reality.  It would be a reality television gold.  

We have never heard the Hoppy Srs discuss any of this, who knows if they counseled Jason to meet Bethenny halfway or not. We never heard them get upset about any decision either Behenny or Jason made concerning them so I have no idea what you base your dislike of them on, other than what Bethenny has said to Jason about his decisions/actions and because of that I find it a rather large leap to assign any blame or criticism on them. And even when Bethenn/Jason fought on camera about the Hoppy's visitation, Bethenny never said that his parents were demanding anything. I found it ridiculous that Bethenny just thought that his parents would not be in their lives and that Jason would give up family holiday traditions just because she had none to begin with, rather selfish, IMO, for her to expect that. Now had we seen/heard the Hoppy's demand/argue anything of Bethenny/Jason, it would be different but we did not.

 

I get that Bethenny says/believes her childhood was awful and that she does not want a relationship with her mother because of that but to expect your husband, who's childhood was good/stable/loving to turn his back on his parents just because you did yours is whack and beyond any selfishness I have ever seen. IMO, Bethenny does not want a family that includes "extended family" such as parents, siblings, Aunts/Uncles or cousins.

 

As for Bryn someday possibly being there for her grandparents, I have no doubts that they would/could/did make arrangements for elder care, times have changed and most seniors that age are already prepared for that eventuality. I have witnessed first hand a number of grandchildren raised by their grandparents and not 1 took care of them when the elder no longer could do themselves because arrangements were already made and the grandparent refused to allow it to happen. Again, IMO, it is a stretch to accuse them of something like that when you/we know nothing about them other than normal, loving parents, in-laws and grandparents.

 

As to why Jason decided on the nanny as guardian, I think he went along to get along. Really, all we ever saw was Bethenny ask her to be it just in case but we never saw them go to a lawyer and draw up the legal papers so it is just as possible that this was for the show only and not real at all. Either way, it was sad IMO, really sad, to ask someone you barely know to raise your child just in case. Oh, and I have no problem that they did not ask the Hoppy's either as I do think someone younger is better but that is in no way a guarantee that something doesn't happen to them before the Hoppy Sr's become frail or die themselves. Life is full of unknowns. JMO

[WireWrap]

Ugh, God, I couldn't stand Jason or the Hoppys. I couldn't even finish watching her spinoff because of them. No thanks.

 

No doubt that Bethenny is majorly messed up and that's not surprising, all things considered. I'm not at all comfortable with questioning what level of abuse (emotional or physical) someone has endured and how they should respond to it, nor how quickly. That said, the woman needs a really good therapist and preferably she meet with him or her not on this show. I can't stand watching anyone in therapy sessions on any of these shows. Blerg.

I agree about the Therapist on the show, IMO, it is just for the show and not for real. I don't think Bethenny wants to change, to heal, to be a happier person. She has built her fortune on her "poor Bethenny was raised by wolves" storyline and without it she is would get called out on her behavior.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I think some fans identify with Bethenny so much that they see Jason through her eyes. He's not someone who eats babies and steals money from the poor. He's kind of a dumb, at times selfish guy. Nonetheless, he hasn't done anything that evinces anything but good intentions towards his daughter and his relationship with her.

 

I don't personally identify with Bethenny at all.  I just go by what I have seen on screen when it comes to Jason's behavior.  And it looks to me like is not above mind-fucking his wife to advance his personal agenda.  He seems like the kind of guy who is totally capable of putting his interests above those of his daughter.  He would have moved out of the apartment and not turned Bryn's home into a pressure cooker if he was that concerned with her well-being, for example.  But he wants that apartment, so he stayed planted.  Even though it must have been hell for Bryn to live like that.

 

As for Bryn someday possibly being there for her grandparents, I have no doubts that they would/could/did make arrangements for elder care, times have changed and most seniors that age are already prepared for that eventuality.

 

I don't understand why it is okay to assume they made arrangements for their elder care when we never saw it, but it is wrong to assume they never told Jason to lighten up on the visit issue just because we never saw it.  

 

I get that Bethenny says/believes her childhood was awful and that she does not want a relationship with her mother because of that but to expect your husband, who's childhood was good/stable/loving to turn his back on his parents just because you did yours is whack and beyond any selfishness I have ever seen.

 

I don't think asking your husband to not set up visits with the in-laws every weekend is asking him to turn his back on his parents.  I think Bethenny just wanted a more reasonable schedule. 

 

 

[HunterHunted]

I don't personally identify with Bethenny at all. I just go by what I have seen on screen when it comes to Jason's behavior. And it looks to me like is not above mind-fucking his wife to advance his personal agenda. He seems like the kind of guy who is totally capable of putting his interests above those of his daughter. He would have moved out of the apartment and not turned Bryn's home into a pressure cooker if he was that concerned with her well-being, for example. But he wants that apartment, so he stayed planted. Even though it must have been hell for Bryn to live like that.

I don't think asking your husband to not set up visits with the in-laws every weekend is asking him to turn his back on his parents. I think Bethenny just wanted a more reasonable schedule.

Jason and the Hoppys wanting visits every weekend bugged me because it never allowed Bethenny and Jason the time to be a family together. Plus those trips were just going to get more onerous the older Brynn got. Soon she would have birthday parties to attend, sports, or dance classes. I think it was better to establish a routine that worked rather than acquiesce to the visits and be resentful.

[WireWrap]

I don't personally identify with Bethenny at all.  I just go by what I have seen on screen when it comes to Jason's behavior.  And it looks to me like is not above mind-fucking his wife to advance his personal agenda.  He seems like the kind of guy who is totally capable of putting his interests above those of his daughter.  He would have moved out of the apartment and not turned Bryn's home into a pressure cooker if he was that concerned with her well-being, for example.  But he wants that apartment, so he stayed planted.  Even though it must have been hell for Bryn to live like that.

 

 

I don't understand why it is okay to assume they made arrangements for their elder care when we never saw it, but it is wrong to assume they never told Jason to lighten up on the visit issue just because we never saw it.  

 

 

I don't think asking your husband to not set up visits with the in-laws every weekend is asking him to turn his back on his parents.  I think Bethenny just wanted a more reasonable schedule. 

I don't think Bethenny was above "mind-fucking" her husband, IMO, it went both ways but Bethenny was the only one that used tears to manipulate the other and to manipulate the viewers.

 

None of us know why Jason stayed in that apartment after they separated, it could also be that he knew Bethenny would block him from seeing Bryn or allowing her overnights in any apartment he got. Maybe Bethenny should have just sucked it up for the sake of their daughter.

 

I said they may have made arrangements because most elderly parents are doing this now and they have always come across as thoughtful people to me. You were the one that said you would hate to see " the claws those two old people would sink into that little girl" even though they have never behaved in anyway other than loving/giving to their granddaughter. You, IMO, made a giant leap based nothing other than Bethenny's own paranoid imagination, not anything they said, did or have shown.

 

Again, why bash his parents for what Jason wanted because we never heard them weigh in on this. And why only bash Jason on this, why not Bethenny for not trying to find middle ground? IMO, they were both selfish in this argument and to blame the only active grandparents for this fight is ridiculous IMO.

 

I stand by what I said in an earlier post....IMO, Bethenny does not want a family that includes any grandparents, Aunts/Uncles or cousins. She wants a family that only includes 3 people and her employees. She had better pray that Bryn doesn't want those same things when she marries and has a child because Bethenny will be out in the cold herself.  JMO

[WireWrap]

Jason and the Hoppys wanting visits every weekend bugged me because it never allowed Bethenny and Jason the time to be a family together. Plus those trips were just going to get more onerous the older Brynn got. Soon she would have birthday parties to attend, sports, or dance classes. I think it was better to establish a routine that worked rather than acquiesce to the visits and be resentful.

As far as we know, the Hoppy's never made that demand, only Jason, and I agree, it would be too much but we never heard Bethenny try to find middle ground either. Both dug their heels in and refused to consider anything else.

[WireWrap]

So much word. Just about everything we've seen in the media about what went on in the apartment during the breakdown of the marriage came from Bethenny's mouth. Beth has proven time and time again that she is subject to hyperbole when it benefits her. I cannot emphasize the fact that YMMV.

Jason got back some respect from me, not that it mattered LOL, because he kept his mouth shut and his team/lawyers/family quiet as well. Bethenny lost what little respect/sympathy I had left for her because she and her team/lawyers/friends went public AND her testifying against Jason then steeling the custody issue before he/lawyers had a chance to question her or defend himself with his truth, whatever that was/is. IMO, that was a PR ploy by Bethenny and her legal team, nothing more and I found that despicable/cold/vengeful/hateful. IMO, Jason put his love of their daughter before his hatred of Bethenny,she did the opposite. again, JMO though LOL

[zoeysmom]

I don't know anything about the person Beth picked as a guardian, but I can understand why she didn't wouldn't want to leave her child with the Hoppys.  They are way too old.  I know, I know ...  some people are lucky to have even an old person take them in and they are grateful for whatever home they get and it can work out, of course I know all that. But it would not be my first choice if Bryn were my child. Not if I had an alternative. I would want her with someone who has a lot more years ahead of them to be there for Bryn.  Someone who might actually provide siblings and a family environment for her.  The Hoppys can't offer that.  It is far more likely that Bryn will end up being their caregiver as they age rather than the other way around.  She shouldn't be stuck with that responsibility.  At least not the hands on responsibility, which is far more likely to happen if she was living with them.  If they needed help funding senior living, fine. She could contribute to that if needed, but no way should that child end up changing the Hoppy's diapers.

 

I don't even want to get started on what clingy, needy people they are.  They raised a son who feels he has to devote most of his free time to them because their other son died, even though it made his wife miserable and contributed to his marriage failing. It wouldn't be any different with Bryn.  It would actually be worse because if Bryn were living with them, it would be because Jason was dead, too.  I can't imagine the claws those two old people would sink into that little girl if that ever happened.  No way should she grow up with the same burden Jason has had to live with, making up for his brother's absence.  That is not his job, and I can see why Bethenny would never want it to become Bryn's job either. 

Hey Meryl dial it down a bit.  (I think that was Bethenny's line.)  None of this ever happened in the show.  Jason never complained about spending time with his parents or being forced to spend time with his parents over some sort of survivors guilt.   In fact they are before the court discussing the number of vacations they had during the marriage.  Can't be out of town without the Hoppys and visiting them every weekend.   I think it is fair to say Bethenny "Lost at Sea" Frankel is prone to exaggeration.  Has there ever been a scene where Jason says unequivocally that they must spend every weekend with his parents?  I get it she did not want to spend time with his folks.

 

I can be entertained by over the top scenarios but assuming an orphaned child would be ruined by her grandparents is a pretty big stretch.  Reminds me of Betty Draper wanting to send her boys to live with her brother (a man they hardly knew) because there was a woman in the house even though it meant  cutting Don out of their lives.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

I don't think Bethenny was above "mind-fucking" her husband, IMO, it went both ways but Bethenny was the only one that used tears to manipulate the other and to manipulate the viewers.

 

None of us know why Jason stayed in that apartment after they separated, it could also be that he knew Bethenny would block him from seeing Bryn or allowing her overnights in any apartment he got. Maybe Bethenny should have just sucked it up for the sake of their daughter.

 

I said they may have made arrangements because most elderly parents are doing this now and they have always come across as thoughtful people to me.  (snip)

 

Again, why bash his parents for what Jason wanted because we never heard them weigh in on this. And why only bash Jason on this, why not Bethenny for not trying to find middle ground? IMO, they were both selfish in this argument and to blame the only active grandparents for this fight is ridiculous IMO.

 

I stand by what I said in an earlier post....IMO, Bethenny does not want a family that includes any grandparents, Aunts/Uncles or cousins. She wants a family that only includes 3 people and her employees. She had better pray that Bryn doesn't want those same things when she marries and has a child because Bethenny will be out in the cold herself.  JMO

 

 

Why am I required to bash Bethenny?  My first post was about the elder Hoppys suitability as guardians.  Later I posted about my opinion of Jason.  I don't feel it is necessary to include a list of Bethenny's shortcomings in every post, especially when her behavior is not the subject I am remarking upon. It's irrelevant.  It is not as if one party's bad behavior negates that of another.

 

I continue to be confused as to why it acceptable to make assumptions and engage in speculation about the Jason and the Hoppys so long as it favors them, but it is unacceptable to speculate and assume when the posters opinion is against them.  That really seems like a double standard.

 

You were the one that said you would hate to see " the claws those two old people would sink into that little girl" even though they have never behaved in anyway other than loving/giving to their granddaughter. You, IMO, made a giant leap based nothing other than Bethenny's own paranoid imagination, not anything they said, did or have shown.

 

That is my opinion of the Hoppys based on what I saw on my television screen.  You obviously don't agree.  C'est la Vie. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

 I think I might have seen the episode where Jason ate kittens, though.

 

I realize that is supposed to be some kind of a joke, as disgusting an image as it is.  But Jason does seem to be willing to take his anger out on innocent animals.  As Bethenny described in her sworn court testimony:

 

"I found out that Jason locked Cookie in the storage unit in our apartment with her dog bed and bowl," she said.

That same night, while Frankel was out, Hoppy put the dog in a bag, hailed a cab, dropped the pup off at a dog hotel in New York City and "wouldn't tell me or my assistant where she was until after midnight," Frankel added.

 

 

Who does something like that?  What a terrible thing for poor Bryn to witness if she was there.  I can only hope she wasn't.

[zoeysmom]

When Bethenny first notified Jason via letter she wanted a divorce IIRC she was out of town at the time, Jason reportedly changed his work schedule so he didn't have out of town trips.  Bethenny on the other hand over the past two or three years has been photographed in LA, Aspen, Miami-numerous times, the Caribbean sometimes with the child sometimes without now she calls them work trips.  In three months Bryn's schedule forever changes and she is expected to be in school.  With the rancor between the two of them I don't see home schooling as an option.

 

I have to say Jason trying to establish roots for a child whose mother claims to have none is a good thing.  At this point unless Jason has separate funds to maintain the family home I do think he needs to find a suitable home for he and Bryn to share when they are together.  Hopefully one without a Skinny Girl bar and all white.  I would love to see the child have a little color in the living areas.  For a very long time Bethenny was pretty diligent in trying to remove Jason from the family home and from Bryn's life.  I find it odd now Bethenny wants to be friends with Jason.  Not as odd over making a BFD of her father in law in his shorts in the family home and yet dismissing her step father beating her mother in front of her.  Bethenny has unusual trigger points.  She is also very coarse.  I find it hard to believe she was shocked by the shorts escapade but goes on TV and talks about "braiding each others' pussy hair."   So I think she needs to define who she is -suitable proper or the get off my jock woman.

[zoeysmom]

I realize that is supposed to be some kind of a joke, as disgusting an image as it is.  But Jason does seem to be willing to take his anger out on innocent animals.  As Bethenny described in her sworn court testimony:

 

 

Who does something like that?  What a terrible thing for poor Bryn to witness if she was there.  I can only hope she wasn't.

This is a dog that bites people -but we will never know Jason side of the story as Bethenny capitulated rather than be cross examined.  Storage unit IN THE APARTMENT, maybe Jason was tired of picking up poop and wiping urine.  Why doesn't Bethenny provide care for her own pet?  It would seem if she was leaving the apartment she would take her dog with her.   Was Bethenny's bedroom locked?  What was he suppose to do with the dog?  Why is her assistant around at midnight?  Neither of these stories are that jarring.  Jason should not have to deal with the dog in his home if he doesn't want to. A dog hotel is a nice thing to do.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Cookie is nippy, but Jason never had a problem with the dog before.  He was shown with her all the time.  His treatment of her seems to be a response to his feelings about the situation with his wife.  I seriously doubt Cookie changed her entire disposition to Jason because Bethenny was having a problem with him.  Not unless Jason himself started treating Cookie differently.  Which is not hard to believe.  He locked her in some kind of pantry.  How shitty a person that guy is.  He wouldn't even tell Bethenny where the dog was.  What was the purpose of that?  The whole thing was done to aggravate Bethenny imo.  It had nothing to do with Cookie's behavior.

 

Why doesn't Bethenny provide care for her own pet?

 

I think when you get married and have a child, a dog, even one that predates the marriage, qualifies as a "family pet."  I don't think Bethenny should be required to board the dog just because she is going out for the night.  Or have to worry about  her being locked in the pantry while she is gone for a few hours.  It's cruel and shows what kind of person Jason is.  

 

Seriously, they were couple enough for Jason to claim half the money she made but not a couple enough that he could deal with the dog on his own for a night?  No.  I don't think so.

[sleekandchic]

My overall impression of the elder Hoppys was one of 60-ish, pleasant, small-town, laidback people, out of their element in the glare of tv lights. I thought both were terrible actors. For example, when Mrs H went on wedding-shopping trips with B, it was obvious to me that we were seeing reenactments or even sham excursions; still, Mrs H tried to be a good sport. Like, "oh yes, Bethenny, I agree that of the three gowns you tried on today, the Amsale is THE ONE!" when the Amsale had been a fait accompli long before the scene was filmed.

But the scene with the Hoppys that will always stand out to me is the Thanksgiving dinner that went horribly wrong. Bethenny was still presenting herself as more an accomplished chef than a booze-mogul in those days, and she and her husband hosted the holiday in their home. When B removed the turkey from the oven, she discovered the oven was broken and the turkey was not done. Meltdown ensued, including B demanding Julie call somebody about the stove.

The Hoppys were deer in the headlights in that scene. Mrs H stayed frozen to her chair, mute. Once Jason hopped to action, Mr H assisted him and said, "oh it isnt too bad, maybe we can cut it up and microwave it." (The bird was really still frozen, and raw!)

I didnt see any kind of tv sitcom-stereotypical buttinsky in-law moves that day.

Now, I know much of what we witnessed was blocked and staged and playacted for the cameras. But I honestly dont remember the elder Hoppys ever presenting as overbearing or demanding. Whatever Jason requested or demanded seemed to come from his own wishes.

I think the characterization of the elder Hoppys as creepy loons expecting their granddaughter to "replace" their dead son (a 21 year old who died in 1991) is very sad, unfair and not anchored in any kind of reality of what we as audience ever saw or read. I'm guessing they probably love Bryn deeply, but I feel sorry for them that Jason hooked up with Bethenny, who will never give them peace. I also question Jason's core, too, since he marched in, with eyes wide open. Either he was (as some believe) a calculated opportunist, or else, he genuinely fell in love with a woman who clearly flies over the cuckoo's nest.

Either way, Jason has his own 45-year-old issues, and his poor parents are being raked now for just basically existing in his life. JMO, but I think that's pretty awful.

Edited May 26, 2015 by sleekandchic

[zoeysmom]

Cookie is nippy, but Jason never had a problem with the dog before.  He was shown with her all the time.  His treatment of her seems to be a response to his feelings about the situation with his wife.  I seriously doubt Cookie changed her entire disposition to Jason because Bethenny was having a problem with him.  Not unless Jason himself started treating Cookie differently.  Which is not hard to believe.  He locked her in some kind of pantry.  How shitty a person that guy is.  He wouldn't even tell Bethenny where the dog was.  What was the purpose of that?  The whole thing was done to aggravate Bethenny imo.  It had nothing to do with Cookie's behavior.

 

 

I think when you get married and have a child, a dog, even one that predates the marriage, qualifies as a "family pet."  I don't think Bethenny should be required to board the dog just because she is going out for the night.  Or have to worry about  her being locked in the pantry while she is gone for a few hours.  It's cruel and shows what kind of person Jason is.  

 

Seriously, they were couple enough for Jason to claim half the money she made but not a couple enough that he could deal with the dog on his own for a night?  No.  I don't think so.

Have you ever heard of crate trained dogs?  They go in their little crate that has their food and water and a bed-far smaller than a utility closet.  There was obviously something that required the dog be segregated.  If Jason's behavior is cruel to you I suggest you never go to a dog show.  The back lots are filled with dogs in containers and crates.  Sometimes their owners are in another state. 

 

Jason isn't cruel he s practical.  If the owner is available he should not have deal with an unruly dog.  Remember that crate trained dog thing. It works for many dog owners.

[sleekandchic]

Well, FWIW, I dont believe Bethenny's version of Cookie-gate. There had to be more to it than how she painted it.

Jason loved that dog and treated her well in their show. Im too tired to go into detail but there was a scene with infant Bryn in her carseat, and Cookie jumping out of the car to go find B. Jason broke the fourth wall, looking toward the crew to watch over Bryn while he chased Cookie.

If B had allowed herself to be cross examined on some of her allegations, Id be more sympathetic. But that move she made, settling custody out of court, speaks volumes to me, none of it good.

Edited May 26, 2015 by sleekandchic

[breezy424]

Why am I required to bash Bethenny?  My first post was about the elder Hoppys suitability as guardians.  Later I posted about my opinion of Jason.  I don't feel it is necessary to include a list of Bethenny's shortcomings in every post, especially when her behavior is not the subject I am remarking upon. It's irrelevant.  It is not as if one party's bad behavior negates that of another.

 

I continue to be confused as to why it acceptable to make assumptions and engage in speculation about the Jason and the Hoppys so long as it favors them, but it is unacceptable to speculate and assume when the posters opinion is against them.  That really seems like a double standard.

 

 

That is my opinion of the Hoppys based on what I saw on my television screen.  You obviously don't agree.  C'est la Vie. 

 

But the question is what did you see on your tv screen that even suggested that the "elder" Hoppys' were clingy or needy? 

 

I do have to say that the categorization of the 'elder' Hoppys'  are way too old is a bit offensive.  And not being able to imagine the claws those two 'old' people would sink into that little girl if that ever happened?  No way should she grow up with the same burden Jason has had to live with, making up for his brother's absence.  Old, old, old.  Like they have a foot and a half in the grave.  They were in their early sixties when the discussion of guardianship came up.  Geez.  So, someone who has a lot more years ahead of them should be there for Bryn?  Someone who might actually provide siblings and a family environment for he?  This person may never have that or they could choose to be in some dysfunctional horrible relationship.  There's no guarantee.  How well did they even know this person? 

 

Hey, people in their sixties and seventies can be quite responsible, loving and able to give guardianship to a child.  People of this age have run countries, Fortune 500 countries and keep up with a child .  And heck, they can even hire Veronica the nanny.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

Have you ever heard of crate trained dogs?  They go in their little crate that has their food and water and a bed-far smaller than a utility closet.  There was obviously something that required the dog be segregated.  If Jason's behavior is cruel to you I suggest you never go to a dog show.  The back lots are filled with dogs in containers and crates.  Sometimes their owners are in another state.

Jason isn't cruel he s practical.  If the owner is available he should not have deal with an unruly dog.  Remember that crate trained dog thing. It works for many dog owners.

 

There was no crate so this is kind of irrelevant.  Cookie is not a crate trained dog. If she were and Jason had merely put her in her usual crate, it would be different.  But that's not the situation.  He isolated the dog in the pantry, then after Bethenny left again he spirited the dog away to a kennel and then wouldn't tell her where he'd taken her.  The fact that he refused to disclose Cookie's location should remove all doubt he was just doing it to fuck with Bethenny.  There is just not reason to not tell her where "her" dog is. 

[breezy424]

There was no crate so this is kind of irrelevant.  Cookie is not a crate trained dog. If she were and Jason had merely put her in her usual crate, it would be different.  But that's not the situation.  He isolated the dog in the pantry, then after Bethenny left again he spirited the dog away to a kennel and then wouldn't tell her where he'd taken her.  The fact that he refused to disclose Cookie's location should remove all doubt he was just doing it to fuck with Bethenny.  There is just not reason to not tell her where "her" dog is. 

Except this is Beth's side of the story.  So the 'situation' is Beth's version.  All I know is that after Beth and Jason were together, it was Jason who walked that dog.  Not Beth.  And why would it be Jason's responsibility to take care of the dog after Beth filed for divorce.  There was never a question of who would have custody of Cookie. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Cookie is a living, feeling creature.  It saddens me to hear people talk about her like she is an old pair of shoes that Jason was free to just cast aside once they were of no personal value to him any more.  

 

Divorce or no divorce, he has an obligation as a civilized human being to treat that dog fairly.  What he did was not fair.  That apartment was as much her home as it was his.  He had no right to treat her that way.  He used her to hurt Bethenny, and that says more about him than I needed to know. 

[zoeysmom]

There was no crate so this is kind of irrelevant.  Cookie is not a crate trained dog. If she were and Jason had merely put her in her usual crate, it would be different.  But that's not the situation.  He isolated the dog in the pantry, then after Bethenny left again he spirited the dog away to a kennel and then wouldn't tell her where he'd taken her.  The fact that he refused to disclose Cookie's location should remove all doubt he was just doing it to fuck with Bethenny.  There is just not reason to not tell her where "her" dog is. 

Tits on an ant.   This is why Bethenny had to shut down her custody case.  Neither parent was insufficient or unable to care for the minor, Bethenny for whatever reason wanted the power position in the custody arrangement.  These tales you are bringing forth are a big snore for a judge.  He didn't flush the toilet, he locked my vicious dog up.  He wouldn't tell my assistant where the dog was.  This wasn't a dog custody case it was about the child.    Bethenny wanted a divorce and things didn't go her way.  Jason is not a fungible male figure in Bryn's life that Bethenny wishes he were.  I am going to give Bethenny the benefit of the doubt-I don't think it is about support or the apartment I just don't think she wants to share her daughter.

 

My question is why are these people screwing around with a dog until after midnight and if the dog was of paramount importance to Bethenny should have taken it with her on her second departure.  It doesn't matter-Bethenny would rather put it out there the father of her daughter is a bad person-she is the one making choices for her daughter.  She should let this stuff go and accept the fact that parents have equal rights. 

[LotusFlower]

Cookie is a living, feeling creature.  It saddens me to hear people talk about her like she is an old pair of shoes that Jason was free to just cast aside once they were of no personal value to him any more.

That sounds like how you describe Jason's parents.

[WireWrap]

There was no crate so this is kind of irrelevant.  Cookie is not a crate trained dog. If she were and Jason had merely put her in her usual crate, it would be different.  But that's not the situation.  He isolated the dog in the pantry, then after Bethenny left again he spirited the dog away to a kennel and then wouldn't tell her where he'd taken her.  The fact that he refused to disclose Cookie's location should remove all doubt he was just doing it to fuck with Bethenny.  There is just not reason to not tell her where "her" dog is. 

We only have 1 side of this, Jason has not said word 1 about it. Again, as someone mentioned, did Bethenny lock her bedroom and the office leaving nowhere else to confine the dog, maybe he had guests over and the dog was her aggressive self around someone new. Jason has kept his mouth shut, not saying anything against Bethenny in the press so we do not have the full story. JS

Edited May 26, 2015 by WireWrap

[Almost 3000]

Have you ever heard of crate trained dogs?  They go in their little crate that has their food and water and a bed-far smaller than a utility closet.  There was obviously something that required the dog be segregated.  If Jason's behavior is cruel to you I suggest you never go to a dog show.  The back lots are filled with dogs in containers and crates.  Sometimes their owners are in another state. 

 

Jason isn't cruel he s practical.  If the owner is available he should not have deal with an unruly dog.  Remember that crate trained dog thing. It works for many dog owners.

Bethenny had a scene in the first or second episode of this season's RHoNYC getting out of the limo with Cookie and she cautioned the bellman about the dog. Just sayin... Edited May 26, 2015 by Almost 3000