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thewhiteowl

S05.E07: Nowhere Man

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So the Entity remains the Entity and the reincarnation trouble created a human body in which to place the Audrey Parker consciousness. Logically, if a way to end the Troubles ever comes along, Audrey would disappear.  I wonder if the writers have thought that through.

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I am so over Mara. Just drop dead already. She's sucking precious screen time from Nathan and Duke and any story I might actually be interested in.

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Something seems weird about Audrey.  I don't know what it is, and maybe it's just ER trying to play Audrey without Mara being in there, but something seemed off compared to the Audrey we know from before.

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Something is off, I agree. I figured she should "feel" different because it's only Audrey in there now (perhaps she feels lonely), but whatever the reason may be, Audrey feels off.

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So, Audrey is "just" Audrey, her own person; and no trouble immunity. I think what accounts for Audrey feeling "off"-she doesn't quite feel like she can help like she did before, or at all, for that matter. She's lost the one advantage she had-now she's just "normal" and trying to adjust to that. Plus, everyone in town still thinks she's Mara, and she doesn't really have a way of proving that-aside from letting someone with a lethal trouble kill her.

 

So, at least we know for sure Mara isn't connected with Audrey-so she doesn't have to stick around just for that reason. So killing her won't kill Audrey, and she can't stop the troubles anyway. So what reason does she need to stay around for?

 

Isn't this the third two-parter we've had so far?

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So, Audrey is "just" Audrey, her own person; and no trouble immunity

 

 

 

The only problem with that concept is that it just reminded me that Audrey Parker is Audrey. And she's somewhere else, struggling with memory loss with Bob (or Dave or whatever his name was). The idea this is Audrey without the Entity aspects just makes no sense.

 

That aside, I enjoyed this episode a lot. I've always felt that Emily Rose's acting was serviceable if not stellar but the longer they keep these different personalities around, the limits of her range are really starting to show.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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Freddie Lounds, causing trouble with a camera again. Odd to see her dressed normal-normal rather than Hannibal-normal.

 

I have to admit I'm starting to get a little tired of everything having to be a two-parter that ends on a cliffhanger, but at the same time nothing really feels padded. Even for as arc-y a show as this has been since about the middle of the first season, this season has been even more so. The Mara plot has been more like one continuous episode with a Trouble of the week occasionally poking its head in.

 

As a Lost fan and a fan of sci-fi mystery TV in general, I got a major kick out of the immediate assumption by the 'ghosts' that this is Purgatory. Has there been a show in the past decade where that hasn't been one of the running fan theories? And being me, of course I snickered at Mara calling Nathan Duke's boyfriend.

 

I am unsurprised by Audrey's lack of immunity, as well as her apparent disorientation. The immunity is somehow 'programmed' into Mara herself, and it didn't transfer over into this new body. I wonder if she still has the old memories, though; specifically I was looking at the piano and wondering if she still remembers how to play.

 

Current assumption about how the Trouble of the week is going to play out: The bright light is a camera flash and everything is being caused by the photographer at the farmers' market. She's the fiancee of the 'leader' of the ghosts, and he's the one killing the others to threaten Nathan away from trying to fix this. He figured it out long ago, but he doesn't want to go back because the cancer will kill him for real if he does.

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Current assumption about how the Trouble of the week is going to play out: The bright light is a camera flash and everything is being caused by the photographer at the farmers' market. She's the fiancee of the 'leader' of the ghosts, and he's the one killing the others to threaten Nathan away from trying to fix this. He figured it out long ago, but he doesn't want to go back because the cancer will kill him for real if he does.

 

That's a very good theory, certainly the camera flash thing. Since most of their mythology is derived from the mi'kmaq, there is the native american belief that a photograph can steal one's soul, perhaps this is the Trouble version of this.

This episode was ok but not great. It seems we're getting extra long episodes for the entire 26 episodes which i think is really unecessary for this show. Is this a contractual thing or what? They should have just wrapped up the series in 13 episodes then.

Why didn't Nathan and Audrey ask Vince and Dave about this Trouble. Those two know a lot about the Troubles and since this one seems distinct and has occurred before surely they might know something or at least are able to find out. They have done it before, but I guess since they were not scheduled to appear in the episode they are doing it the hard way.

 

The whole 'just Audrey Parker' thing will need to be explained. So now she is just like brunette Audrey Parker except without the Haven experiences. But since she is the result of a Trouble, when the Troubles end or Duke is deactivated or dies or whatever she disappears?

 

If Mara is using the Troubles to create an army as one poster mentioned some episodes back ( the Guard calling themselves killing machines reminded me of this) then Duke may be the ultimate super weapon for her. He has all those Troubles within him and if she can manipulate them then she can create what she wants.

 

Kind of preferred Audrey with Mara though, she seemed to be the extra spark in Audrey, this season Audrey has become too much of a damsel in distress, rescued twice in 2 episodes. Having Mara chained up all the time is also boring, for someone described as a clever troubemaker, she hasn't been given a chance to show it.

Edited by BlueJay81
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I don't think Audrey will disappear if the Troubles end. I think disconnecting her entirely from Mara and making her fully human will be what keeps her here at the end.  The physical results of a trouble last even if a trouble goes away.   Although I'm a little worried about Dave on that score.  I do agree that Audrey's was "off" because this is all new territory for her. She came to rely on her immunity; and even when she wasn't aware of Mara there was still probably a little bit of Mara (and the other personalities) in her that gave her the confidence to know what to do to end a trouble.  This is a whole new ballgame.  It's probably a little bit what Nathan went through when he lost his sense of touch and had to learn to navigate without it; only with the whole identity crisis thrown in.

 

Speaking of Nathan, kudos to whose who called that he wouldn't be able to feel Audrey. I did wonder when they had Duke ask him if that's why he loved Audrey - nice bit of foreshadowing.  And this latest trouble has got to be his worst nightmare -not only can he not feel anyone's touch, now he can't even touch them and no one can see, hear or feel him. Except of course Mara, who wants only to hurt him. They really need to figure out what to do with her because keeping her chained in the hold of Duke's boat is starting to feel a tad creepy. And I reallllly hope he's not going to give in to let her see his grandfather's journal. I don't like where that's going.

 

Question - why do they think Duke needs Mara to control his Trouble?  He  seemed to do alright with the reincarnation spell without her.

 

I will say that based on the episode description and previews I thought this was going to be another "Audrey in trouble and Nathan tries to save her" episode and it turns out to be the other way around.  Show always manages to surprise.

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This episode felt better, but ER is just so...meh.  I'm an very bothered by Mara's bra.  I know this is going to sound weird.  But they have a woman chained up and she just happens to be wearing a thin t-shirt and her bra is completely visible.  It gives the whole thing a sexual overtone that seems inappropriate.  Would it have been that difficult to put her in one of Duke's t-shirts?  Really?  No wardrobe, make it somewhat sexy.  UGH.  GROSS.

 

I think Freddie the Camera GIrl is the one with the Trouble as well.

 

Another two partner.  It is getting annoying.

 

So now that they are sure Audrey and Mara aren't connected, how about cutting off her toe for realz Duke?  She's a crazy bitch who has caused the death of hundreds of people.  If you need something from her, physical violence might be he way to make it happen. Just stop having her trying to look sexy while you do it.

 

Loved seeing the Chief again.  That was the very best part of the episode.

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she can't stop the troubles anyway. So what reason does she need to stay around for?

 

Because she is immune to the Troubles. Having someone with that ability is a huge help in tracking down the Troubled and working with them to contain the harm. They need her just as they needed all the Haven savers. Mara is just an unwilling and unpleasant helper. I have to say that I'm less worried about her sexualized wardrobe than about her bathroom breaks when Duke is absent.

 

I did not even consider camera girl as source of the trouble but of course that has to be it.  Everything in Tabbyclaw's theory makes sense.

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Something is off, I agree. I figured she should "feel" different because it's only Audrey in there now (perhaps she feels lonely), but whatever the reason may be, Audrey feels off.

There are lots of reasons for Audrey to feel off. She seemed to have been pretty traumatized by being trapped in Mara, forced to watch while Mara hurt the people Audrey loves, and now suddenly she's free. She's also got some serious identity issues going on. Before, she didn't know her origins but knew her purpose in life. Now she knows her origins, and they're pretty awful, and she no longer has that purpose. She has to figure out who/what she is and what she wants to be. And then while she's still reeling from all that, the man she loves seems to have been killed while she was talking to him on the phone.

 

Even though she's now closer to Real Audrey by no longer being part Mara, Sarah, Lucy, etc., I think her experiences in Haven and the things she's learned about her origins (even if they no longer apply to this body and her soul seems to have been separated from that entity) are extreme enough that she's still a distinct individual because those experiences are the kind of things that really change a person. I wonder if she considers herself to be James's mother still, even if her current body may not have been the one that gave birth to him. Does she still have the scar on her foot? Is it really a "new" body or was it somehow spun off from that body, though without the Trouble? I guess I'm thinking about that arc on Farscape where Crichton was split in two, creating two versions of him, with identical memories up to that point, but then they branched out after that, becoming two distinct people.

 

The makeup people aren't even trying, are they? Not only are they not remembering that Nathan's chest should probably look like the surface of the moon by now from all his various gunshot and other injury scars, but he was shot in the shoulder just a few days ago, and yet there didn't seem to be any sign of a healing wound.

 

I'm surprised that I managed to predict that Audrey wouldn't be immune anymore. I guess Nathan isn't just into her because he can feel her because it didn't seem to bother him enough for her to notice it. 

 

It was clever of Nathan to rile Mara up enough in front of Duke that she couldn't help but respond, thus revealing his presence. Her need to snark may be her weakness.

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So I guess Audrey is a similar situation to Duke's daughter I guess. A byproduct of a trouble that wouldn't go away if the troubles ended I guess. I'm ok with Audrey and Emily Rose trying to re-acclimate to Audrey. I think it works for the situation. I hope they start giving Mara something to do now. I like her but if she's not going to do anything I don't need to see her. I enjoyed this episode because it had my favorite elements of Audrey/Nathan/Duke in various permutations and Duke being bad-ass. I'm easy to please. I will admit I still do enjoy Nathan and Mara  bickering.

Edited by icandigit

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This episode didn't really flow for me. I'm a huge Naudrey shipper but that first bed scene failed to grip me like it should.

 

Then after the bed scene the 42 minutes just seemed to fly by. And I couldn't really tell you any detail about anything that happened.

 

No Teagues, no Gloria, no Dwight, boo. Not that our three heroes can not carry an episode but I think the side characters are sometimes what makes or breaks an episode.

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Audrey shouldn't consider herself James's mother because neither her body nor her solely Audrey consciousness gave birth to him. But in twisted circumstances like these, who knows what her psychological relation to the CK is.

 

I admit that the physical impacts of Troubles stay around after the trouble that caused them goes away. But haven't there been troubles where someone creates an alter ego and projects it beyond their own body and that alter ego disappears when the trouble does? That was what I was thinking about regarding Audrey's staying power if the Troubles are ever cured once and for all. But they could of course go with the other explanation; I'm sure Audrey will exist and have a normal life at the end of the show. Probably the Entity never could, which is why they've spun her off.

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I really wish I knew what they were planning in their evil little heads. Last episode the first thing I thought about was the episode friend or faux with the guy with the copy. That seems like something that would definitely leave if the troubles are resolved or if Mara died. I'm actually just throwing ideas out to the wall hoping one of them stick.

Edited by icandigit

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What if this whole shacking up with Duke thing is supposed to "turn" Mara around. Perhaps she'll grow tired of dog food soon enough and want something decent to eat.

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I think the writers were acknowledging how this whole Mara/Audrey separation thing doesn't make sense at the beginning of the episode when Nathan said we have no idea what happened.

 

If Audrey and Mara have never been connected as Mara admitted then what is Audrey? Where does her desire to help the Troubled come from?  If the effects of the Troubles persist even when they have ended completely, then what does that mean for the real Audrey Parker whose memories and life, blonde Audrey Parker now has and intends to keep.

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Agent Howard and those he represents, presumably some power from "over there" that regrets what Mara and William did, only transplanted memories into the Entitiy that came from people who would be willing and able to help the Troubled. Those originals of Lucy, Sarah, Audrey weren't damaged by the uploading. Their memories were copied, not transferred. The real Audrey Parker only got wiped because she found out about her double. Whatever happens to Haven Audrey, who has a whole other set of experiences and memories not shared with the real AP, shouldn't have any effect on the real AP.

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I want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt but they seem to have forgotten completely that:

 

a. there were dozens of personalities given to the Entity over the years - this isn't a binary Audrey vs Mara issue

b. these personalities were not unique but were simply copies of real people living at the time and that therefore

c. there is a real Audrey Parker in the world and this isn't it. 

 

Without the Entity aspects, this person quite literally doesn't exist so I don't think it makes sense for them to split off.

 

I think the writers were acknowledging how this whole Mara/Audrey separation thing doesn't make sense at the beginning of the episode

 

 

Sure but I would have expected some acknowledgement that all the personalities should have been split off. Why would it just be Audrey?

Edited by AudienceofOne
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I think it was just Audrey that split off because that's who Duke was trying to reach with his reincarnation trouble. They didn't say exactly how the reincarnation trouble worked but maybe it would only bring back one past life at a time. Howard (or maybe Dave or Vince) said that "she" was different this time around.  For some reason, Audrey seems to be more "real' than the other personalities.  Maybe the relationships that she formed with Nathan and Duke and the others were stronger or maybe because the barn was destroyed. I don't think the fact that her pre-Haven memories weren't really hers matters.  The fact that original Audrey lost her memory doesn't make her less real than she was before.  They're both alive now and both living their respective lives.

 

I think Tabbyclaw's theory is a good one.  I didn't even think about the photographer at the time but now that I think about it didn't the photo she showed Audrey have both Nathan and creepy guard guy in it? And then both disappeared.  Question is if she knows she's doing it.

 

 

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I think Tabbyclaw's theory is a good one.  I didn't even think about the photographer at the time but now that I think about it didn't the photo she showed Audrey have both Nathan and creepy guard guy in it?

I may be wrong but I kinda remember Nathan waving to the camera. And then later his shadow had a hand up like it was waving.

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Sure but I would have expected some acknowledgement that all the personalities should have been split off. Why would it just be Audrey?

To be honest, I think they are just stalling on this point so they can do their usual information dump in the last episode without giving it room to breathe.

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All the personalities? Lucy, Sarah, swings both ways Veronica?

 

While I'd to like to see all of them and know all of them, I prefer they keep those to flashbacks. I don't know if I'd keep them all straight, hair colour notwithstanding.

 

Thing is, I think Mara is starting to get weary about being a brat. I liked the remark about Audrey always being hungry as though it's something she really can not grasp or hold off in the long run.

Edited by Elsinore

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The whole resurrection part of the trouble apparently went sideways, so nobody (Duke or his journal) knows what to expect. They expected Mara to become Audrey again. Immune to the troubles and everything like it used to be.  I would have been forever suspicious of that solution though and angry with Duke if he wasn't. Audrey, all that time, was 'in there' desperately trying to get out and if it had worked the way they expected, that dynamic might have just swapped.  Audrey is now back in the driver's seat, but Mara is awake and trying to break through. They'd be right back where they started, not sure which one they were dealing with at any given moment.

I guess I should have known Audrey would come back without her immunity when Duke asked Nathan the question I'd been wondering myself for years.  Was it really "love", or simply that she was the only one he could feel? And the minute Duke asked the question, I knew what the answer would be.  Of course it's twu wuv.

I'm trying to accept that Audrey is different because she's "just" Audrey now, and she's not immune.  She's trying to adjust. But I'm a naturally cynical and suspicious person and the troubles aren't usually helpful. More harm than good, generally, so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I guess Dwight went to Cincinnati. I hope Gloria went with him.  They seem to be very close.

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Not that I am advocating for or arguing against this, but how do we know that the other personalities have not washed up somewhere else?  

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Not that I am advocating for or arguing against this, but how do we know that the other personalities have not washed up somewhere else?

 

 

I was half hoping that's what happened and was almost expecting Lucy or Sarah to rock up in this episode and say, "I just woke up on the beach. How weird!"

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Guest Accused Dingo

This show has always been average fair for me. This is the first season in a long time that I have outright enjoyed. I love the idea that "Audrey" is respondible for the troubles and now that the town knows it she has lost a fair amount of the goodwill she has gained over the years. Only Nathan and Duke remain loyal to her and now that she has split from Mara things look like are going to get even more interesting.

Edited by Accused Dingo
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Even if Audrey's new body should disappear once the Troubles are gone, it won't. We know Audrey will be a big part in ending the Troubles, so that plus Nathan's love will make her a real girl. Am I the only one who remembers The Velveteen Rabbit?

 

Adding my vote to the frustration with multi-parters this season.

 

So, who is killing ghosts? Is William back?

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I barely noticed that Audrey didn't seem like herself this episode because she hasn't felt right to me since Season 3. I don't know if it was spending so much time at the beginning of S4 with Lexie, and then with Mara this season, but I honestly think that ER and maybe the writers have sort of lost track of Audrey. Maybe they should have all watched S1-3 again to get back into that space, or maybe I just need to be more patient, but I'm half-resigned to the fact that she will never really be the Audrey we got to know for three seasons.

 

So tired of Mara. Just 100% ready to be done with all Entity personalities who are not Audrey or the Grand Unified Haven Helper Persona.

 

Otherwise, I found this episode interesting and I like when the Trouble ties into what's going on with the characters in general. So I appreciated Nathan finding that he can't feel Audrey anymore, and then disappearing completely. 

Edited by Carrie Ann
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So, who is killing ghosts? Is William back?

 

Since the "ghosts" can interact with each other physically, it would have to be someone whom the trouble turned into a shadow. Best bet is the angry, bearded Guard guy.

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The makeup people aren't even trying, are they? Not only are they not remembering that Nathan's chest should probably look like the surface of the moon by now from all his various gunshot and other injury scars, but he was shot in the shoulder just a few days ago, and yet there didn't seem to be any sign of a healing wound.

I have long ago fanwanked that Nathan has a healing Trouble that no one bothers to mention/ notice. I did think I noticed a little blemish on his shoulder, but it might have just been me, and either way it was nowhere near the size/ ugliness it should be considering the timeline.

 

I also thought it was bizarre that the gash on Dave's head (bleeding freely after the accident) disappeared when he was in the hospital, yet the bruise on Vince's head (from him repeatedly running into things as Dave) was there in both this episode and the next one, in various stages of healing. Maybe Richard Donat is more patient in the make-up chair than either John Dunsworth or Lucas Bryant. Or maybe the Haven fake wound make-up artist can only do bruises.

 

And I know it's done for dramatic effect, but does Duke have to sever his hand like that every time he releases a trouble? Can't he just, like, nick a finger? Because grabbing a knife blade and letting it sink deep enough into your palm to let blood gush out of your fist looks really painful... 

Edited by dargosmydaddy
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I have long ago fanwanked that Nathan has a healing Trouble that no one bothers to mention/ notice.

If you consider that the Troubles are William and Mara's idea of fun, that makes total sense. What fun would it be if Nathan was laid up most of the time or died too soon?

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And I know it's done for dramatic effect, but does Duke have to sever his hand like that every time he releases a trouble? Can't he just, like, nick a finger? Because grabbing a knife blade and letting it sink deep enough into your palm to let blood gush out of your fist looks really painful... 

That's the only way to draw your own blood in TV-Land. On the finale of Buffy, all of the potential slayers sliced open their own hands to use their blood to open the portal. This, knowing they would be heading into the fiercest battle of their lives. With sliced hands--all the better to grasp their weapons with.

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