S02.E03: Every Mother's Son

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Klaus and Elijah receive a cryptic invitation to dinner from their mother Esther, who continues to inhabit the body of Harvest girl Cassie, they find themselves preparing for the worst. With the help of a new witch named Lenore, Klaus, Elijah and Hayley attempt to stay one step ahead of Esther, but things quickly take an unexpected turn. While Elijah finds himself reluctantly teaming up with Gia, a newly-turned vampire, Hayley is faced with an enticing proposition about her new status as a Hybrid after a startling encounter with Esther. Finally, Esther reveals a shocking secret about Klaus' childhood and unveils her ultimate plan for her children.

 

Promo:

http://youtu.be/4Dae9nfT9MI

 

Clips:

http://youtu.be/4t2iWpNwB1M

 

http://youtu.be/SGSmdyzJeTk

 

Behind the scenes:

http://youtu.be/tbKaw1xYADQ

 

[AlliMo]

I'm glad for the Esther body jump because the actress playing her in the teenager was just not selling it. The actor playing Finn, however, captures his self righteous prattling pretty darned well.

 

Esther remains unrelentingly awful, though I guess I see where they all get their arrogance.

 

ETA: I just realized that the new witch is played by Sonja Sohn from "The Wire," and I don't know how they managed that but that is a spectacular casting coup.

Edited October 21, 2014 by AlliMo

[Luciano]

The actor playing Finn, however, captures his self righteous pretty darned well.

Yeah, I like this Finn. The character has always been sort of blah to me, but he finally got personality tonight!

[Artsda]

I loved the family dinner, how I wished Kol (real Kol) and Rebeckha could have been there too. 

[HunterHunted]

I'm glad they didn't waste Sonja Sohn in a random cameo. I think she'll be fantastic as the always awful Esther. With Elijah's talk about how a vampire's emotions are heightened, it made me wonder if that wasn't an aspect of the spell taken from Esther's personality. For all of Klaus' petulant rages, Esther is truly monsterous as she vacillates back and forth between insane love for her children and the desire for filicide.

That was Finn to the nth degree. He is so self-righteously smug when he's doing mommy's bidding.

I appreciate Hayley rolling her eyes at Elijah. He's so black and white with his relationships. He can't have an adult conversation with Hayley on why he needs to be a little distant. I love him, but he's a dumbass.

[driedfruit]

Good episode. I missed Kol. And I really hope the show does at one point deliver a real reunion involving all the brothers, the mother and father, and Rebekah whenever Claire has time to film.

 

Finn has got massively upgraded. He was boring as a vampire, but now that he's a witch I think his character has a lot of potential. Nice to see him handling both Klaus and Elijah, while on TVD his original ass got handed to him by Klaus and Rebekah. I really hope he doesn't get his old body back. The new actor is cuter and the character is a lot more interesting this time around. 

 

I'm not that happy about the new body Esther inhabited. The actress acts too crazy, and I've always loved how Esther seemed perfectly sane on the surface. And actually, I don't find Esther particularly crazy. Her children are monsters so she should want to rid the world of them. I liked that her intentions can go either way, like with the necklace sapping Klaus of his strength that protected him from killing and turning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

KIMA! I knew it was her as soon as I heard her voice! I just watched the reunion of The Wire cast at Paleyfest over the weekend so it was awesome to see Kima back on my tv again a few days later!

 

Oh, Finn, you pompous windbag. I get being mad that Klaus daggered him for 900 years but good lord STFU. Every time he gets undaggered, I see why Klaus daggered him in the first place.

 

I can't wait to see whose body Kol is in now. I hope it's not that musician that was singing in the bar at the end when Elijah and Gia were talking. I really dislike the orange lighting the show is using to illustrate Esther and Finn doing magic. The lighting on the singer seemed a little similar so I wasn't sure if that was the show telling us that Kol got put into that guy's body. Maybe I'm giving the show too much credit for being subtle when we know that Plec & Co usually prefer the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

 

I used to love Elijah but gawd, he was such a dick to Gia for most of the episode. First he admonishes her for wasting his time when HE is the one who was charging through the streets. If you know she is the one taking you to the witch, then let her lead you, dummy! Then he tells her to get a python by compelling someoine but without teaching her anything about compulsion. Who is wasting whose time now, Elijah?

 

I still love watching Elijah interact with his family (aside from Klaus, that is, because I'm tired of the same old song and dance they do where Klaus has temper tantrums and blames everyone and then Elijah tries to soothe him). As annoying as Finn is, I love watching the siblings interact. One thing that is very believable about their relationships is the old resentments and the way they know how to push each other's buttons. Seeing those flashbacks made me realize part of the reason Klaus is the way he is - Esther has been telling him he's a special snowflake for ages!

 

I hate the way Klaus treats everyone like a child, an idiot, or a servant. When he said, "I'M TALKING TO YOU!" to Hayley, I just rolled my eyes. Later when Elijah started to follow Hayley, Klaus said, "Leave her. I need you with me." Yes, heaven forbid anyone do anything that doesn't benefit Klaus in some way.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Kaboom 2.0]

I would like to suggest to the show runners that the next body Kol should inhabit is NB's. :-)

 

Do you think we'll ever see the young witch whose body Esther dumped? She is the only other young sacrificial witch left, other than Davina.

 

Re: Finn's new body, add me to those that like the actor. I didn't have a problem with the original Finn actor over on TVD since Finn is a mama's boy who has been asleep for 99% of the last thousand years but I like how this actor on TO portrays him, a lil bit of witchy swagger to go along with the self righteous prattling. And FANTASTIC cheekbones. (/shallow)

 

As we didn't hate Esther enough, she's also to blame for telling super baby Klaus that he's the most speshul thing ever in the whole world. Thanks a lot, asshole. Still can't wait for her to go against Mikael in the Worst Parent Ever battle royale that's brewing. Omg I just thought of this, since Esther loves to inhabit witches, would she try to jump into Davina at some point?? If she did she would control Mikael. Mmmm....

 

I'll wrap this up by saying how much I enjoy that Marcel knows Elijah and Klaus so well, what buttons to push, etc. Gia annoyed me, don't know if it's the actress or what. Hopefully Elijah will compel her and have her traipse around the city finding/stealing various things to make her think she's important.

[Morrigan2575]

This was good, a little slow but I enjoyed all of the character aspects. I thought the dinner scene was great. I like the actor playing Finn and was getting used to teen Esther. However, I'm really looking forward to Lenore/Esther, the actress brought a lot of warmth to the role. Not sure if it makes sense but Lenore/Esther actually made me wonder if there really was some love there. I don't think the teen actress could have pulled off the range.

 

No Cami, Davina, Kol or Mikael but there was still a lot to entertain. I really hope we get a true family reunion soon.

[September]

And actually, I don't find Esther particularly crazy. Her children are monsters so she should want to rid the world of them.

 

 

I think that Esther, as Klaus said in the previous episode, is the real monster. She let Mikael abuse Klaus for years and she didn't do anything about it (well, she gave Klaus the necklace that weakened him), she turned her children into vampires without thinking about the consequences, she tried to kill them, she tried to kill Klaus's baby, and now she is going to destroy everything they hold dear so they beg her "to release them from their pain". She is a monster and she is completely crazy.

[Cattitude]

I finally liked an episode. Elijah was much more himself. I do like the witch version of Finn better. I still don't understand what Esther is actually offering them? Glad Esther jumped bodies, though no real explaination as to why? The plot doesn't make much sense to me. I mean she did it right in front of them so it wasn't for surprise factor. Makes no sense.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Cattitude

[driedfruit]

I think that Esther, as Klaus said in the previous episode, is the real monster. She let Mikael abuse Klaus for years and she didn't do anything about it (well, she gave Klaus the necklace that weakened him), she turned her children into vampires without thinking about the consequences, she tried to kill them, she tried to kill Klaus's baby, and now she is going to destroy everything they hold dear so they beg her "to release them from their pain". She is a monster and she is completely crazy.

 

I disagree with Esther being a monster. I think she has made mistakes, some with unintentional consequences (ie. the blood lust of vampirism) and she's very much a Machhiavellian in that she services the greater good, which makes her the same as most TVD/TO witches. But I don't think any of those things make her worse than Klaus/Elijah/Kol...  

 

I can't blame her for the child abuse since Mikael was a strict and brutal patriarch, so I'm not so sure how valid Esther letting him do anything is. Considering all we know about him, I wouldn't put it past him to be abusive to his wife as well. That said, Esther's reaction in the first flashback wasn't that of an unconcerned parent. And the necklace was a case of her greyer morals--yes she made Klaus weaker, but she protected him from his werewolf temper and committing murder, as well as the agony of turning every month and potentially committing even more murder. 

 

The woman has her reasons, and they're usually better reasons than Klaus and his siblings have. I don't think she's any more crazy than historic kings and modern day presidents that wage wars or drone strikes. Casualties, etc. She's not a very good person, but she's not a bloodthirsty brute either. But her children are, and wanting to get rid of them definitely doesn't make her a bigger monster. 

[September]

 

I can't blame her for the child abuse since Mikael was a strict and brutal patriarch, so I'm not so sure how valid Esther letting him do anything is. Considering all we know about him, I wouldn't put it past him to be abusive to his wife as well. That said, Esther's reaction in the first flashback wasn't that of an unconcerned parent. And the necklace was a case of her greyer morals--yes she made Klaus weaker, but she protected him from his werewolf temper and committing murder, as well as the agony of turning every month and potentially committing even more murder. 

 

Let wasn't the appropriate word (English is not my first language). What I meant is that Esther knew that Mikael was abusing Klaus and she didn't do anything about it and I think that she could have because she was a very powerful witch. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I finally liked an episode. Elijah was much more himself. I do like the witch version of Finn better. I still don't understand what Esther is actually offering them? Glad Esther jumped bodies, though no real explaination as to why? The plot doesn't make much sense to me. I mean she did it right in front of them so it wasn't for surprise factor. Makes no sense.

I think Esther is offering to let Elijah and Klaus jump into new mortal bodies which means that they will live in human bodies without any unnatural vampire/Original powers and then die when their mortal bodies get old (as opposed to Esther killing them herself).

At first I thought Esther jumped bodies because Elijah had seen her in Cassie's body and she wanted to hide, but when she jumped into Lenore and Hayley told them where she was, Lenore said that her plan all along was to have them come to her. It didn't seem like was a more powerful witch than Cassie so I'm not sure why she bothered jumping but I am just glad I don't have to deal with Cassie's expressionless face and monotone voice.

[Cattitude]

I think Esther is offering to let Elijah and Klaus jump into new mortal bodies which means that they will live in human bodies without any unnatural vampire/Original powers and then die when their mortal bodies get old (as opposed to Esther killing them herself).

 

 

But if Esther just jumps from body to body and doesn't ever have to die, then it seems that is also what would happen with the rest of them b/c it seems Kol and Finn are now witches, which also makes no sense to me. If they all could always use witch power why did Esther not just teach them spells and help them protect themselves as children instead of turning them into vampires? I really don't understand where they are trying to go with this story at all. Hayley isn't a witch so what exactly is she offering her?

Why did Esther make Mikael a vampire to kill them if she could have done what she is now all along?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Cattitude

[ElectricBoogaloo]

But for any of them to continue jumping bodies would require magic, presumably Esther's, and she has no intention of letting them live forever because it's unnatural. She wants them to stop being the abominations she created. By putting them in human bodies, she is unvamping them but not killing them outright herself. I think the non-crazy part of her who still loves them thinks that it will be a relief to them to be able to live normal human lives (remember how Rebekah wanted the cure so she could have kids and a family?). This is all conjecture though since she never explained why she thinks this is the solution. You'd think they would have her spell it out as they usually do with the other plots/characters.

ETA: I think she is offering Haley a body jump for the same reason. She will go back to being a normal human instead of a hybrid. She won't have powers but she also won't to have to deal with turning into a wolf. Esther thinks going back to being human is a gift and some supernaturals might be glad to go back to being human. I wonder how any of the characters on TVD would react to her offer.

Edited October 21, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[immortalfrieza]

Or maybe Esther is just going to cure their vampirism, I don't see where anyone gets the idea that she's going to body jump them.

 

I can easily see why this family is as screwed up as it is. They've got a mother that was more than capable of stopping him that stood by while the father tortured her son for shits and giggles, turned them all into vampires without any thought to the consequences and then acts like it's not all her fault, and now we've got the mother who is intent on torturing her children until they essentially beg for death, which, lest we forget, will probably kill all the other vampires in the world in the process, innocent or not. All the while claiming that she loves and cherishes her children, which is really just her justifying her own sadistic tendencies to herself. Yeah, Esther's children may be monsters but she's more monstrous than any of them by far, even Klaus, just because at least they own up to what they really are and the actions they take, Esther thinks she's actually doing good by doing what she's doing. Esther is COMPLETELY insane, there's no question about that. One of Klaus' quotes comes to mind:

 

Klaus: [Esther] was the true monster. She changed her children, stole our innocence, made us vampires, condemned us to an eternity of bloodlust, and then acted as if we were to blame.

 

Very true. I'm surprised Klaus in particular is as sane as he is after all his family has put him through. If any of the family has an excuse to be completely and utterly gibbering insane it's him.

Edited October 21, 2014 by immortalfrieza

[bluebonnet]

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about The Worst Parents in the World returning in such a big way to the plot.  These parents are so awful, there's no grey anywhere with them.  It's fun watching villains on tv, but entertainment is lost when the villains are just so evil.  It actually seems like they are doing all they can to wipe out what little grey might have existed with these parents.  I could have believed that Esther was truly marginalized and had no way to fight back against her abusive husband.  It's a stretch, but I would have suspended disbelief for it.  Then we learn that Esther can use a cheap necklace and some KY jelly to control Klaus and yet somehow there wasn't a quick and easy talisman that could control her viciously violent husband.  My ability to cling to the tiniest bit of grey with Esther vanished.  

 

On the plus side, I really enjoy how the siblings interact, especially when their parents are around.  I can live with the over-the-top evil villains  if the sibling interactions continue to be so enjoyable.  

[immortalfrieza]

Then we learn that Esther can use a cheap necklace and some KY jelly to control Klaus and yet somehow there wasn't a quick and easy talisman that could control her viciously violent husband.  My ability to cling to the tiniest bit of grey with Esther vanished.  

Yes, as far as we've been shown Mikael is just a normal human man rather than a witch himself, so it seems that could she have easily stopped her husband's abuse of her child with a literal snap of her fingers, so I find it far more likely she actively encouraged his behavior than anything else.

[September]

Yes, as far as we've been shown Mikael is just a normal human man rather than a witch himself, so it seems that could she have easily stopped her husband's abuse of her child with a literal snap of her fingers, so I find it far more likely she actively encouraged his behavior than anything else.

THIS! If she was able to create a necklace to weaken Klaus, she could have stopped her husband.

 

I would love to know why she tried to kill her granddaughter, an innocent baby who hasn't done anything wrong. Maybe to make Klaus suffer?

[rue721]

it seems that could she have easily stopped her husband's abuse of her child with a literal snap of her fingers, so I find it far more likely she actively encouraged his behavior than anything else.

 

As I understood it, in that first flashback in the woods, when Kid!Klaus told Esther that he was too scared to hunt when he was near Mikael, Esther's takeaway from that conversation was that Klaus's fear of Mikael could keep him in his place and stop him from getting too uppity/"able to hunt"/likely to trigger the curse. So she weakened Klaus with the necklace, to keep Klaus from being able to protect himself from Mikael, and to paint even more of a target on Klaus's back for Mikael -- because weakened/targeted like that, Klaus would have plenty of reason to be afraid of Mikael and to stay afraid of Mikael forever (or at least, as long as he wore the necklace), and therefore to stay in his place (aka, not trigger the curse) forever (or at least, as long as he wore the necklace). Considering how appalling that is, Klaus handled the realization pretty calmly, imo.

[sashabear21]

Finally got to watch last night's episode as it was taken over by the local channel for Monday Night Football here.  Jeez, can't Esther be happy that at least some of her children get along? Finn's boring as hell, Kol is pretty much insane, but Klaus, Elijah, and Rebekah get along okay and after 1,000 years, that's something.  My mom can't even get her kids in the same room without us having a huge fight that started 5 minutes before over a kale and brussel sprout salad, "I'm mad at you for something I don't remember why from 30 years ago!", "Your fault brussel sprouts, grumble grumble!", "It's Christmas you assholes, take a step back!". Count your blessings Esther.  Stop switching bodies and realize all families are messed up, yeah yours is a little bit more than most, but you kinda did that to yourself.  

[rue721]

I'm not sure how I'm feeling about The Worst Parents in the World returning in such a big way to the plot.  These parents are so awful, there's no grey anywhere with them.  It's fun watching villains on tv, but entertainment is lost when the villains are just so evil.

 

One of the things that I think TO genuinely does well is that its characters just *cannot* shake the past. So I get kind of a kick out of it when a character is just terrible and Iimpossible to deal with because I figure that the other characters are just going to have to figure out some way to deal with them anyway. Like, Klaus is the biggest PITA who ever existed, and Rebekah tried to make that work for a millenia, and like ten minutes after she finally got a break and moved away (and the actress even left the show, she was really gone), she had to come back to pick up Klaus's goddamned kid! Or, and this is kind of sick, but I actually find it hilarious how Mikael is just The Worst, I mean, he has literally not one good quality that I can think of, but he's like a bad penny the way his kids can't lose him. If he's not turning up in his kids' dreams or they're not having arguments about what he did way back when or they're not fleeing across the world trying to avoid him or they're not having flashbacks about him or they don't have to "explain" him to some shocked friend or Klaus isn't literally dragging his coffin around, then Mikael's even coming back ALIVE ffs! It's so terrible that you just have to laugh. I mean COME ON. What do you know it, he's going to come back with his stupid white ash stake and call Klaus "boy" and say Rebekah is his favorite and beat Elijah up while claiming that he doesn't particularly want to beat Elijah up and be EXACTLY THE SAME. He even listens to the same Islandic folk chants as he did 1000 YEARS AGO. LOL. He's probably going to get killed again and haunt them again and come back again, and on and on for eternity.*

 

So yeah, when the parents, or any of the characters really, are just absurdly awful, I find it amusing, because it's like...I dunno, watching the supernatural teen soap version of a Beckett play or something. Yup, life is futile. Yup, it keeps going anyway. Yup, always with these people -- the sucky side of kismet. It always cracks me up to think of it (HOW many times have they "won" and "lost" NOLA now?).

 

*Reminds me of Keats's Ode on a Grecian Urn. They're frozen in this one moment/dynamic that eternity has drained of meaning. Thinking about it, their indestructability/immortality and the way they each have this prescribed personality and role in their family/the world make me think of myths about the Greek gods in general. ANYWAY. It's too late, I'm now not talking sense.

[driedfruit]

Then we learn that Esther can use a cheap necklace and some KY jelly to control Klaus and yet somehow there wasn't a quick and easy talisman that could control her viciously violent husband.  My ability to cling to the tiniest bit of grey with Esther vanished.

 

There is a reason Mikael loathed weakness, it's because strength meant survival in their society. If she made Mikael weak it would come at a terrible cost to their family. In most strength based patriarchal societies, the families without a powerful male head don't fare too well. And she definitely wasn't strong enough of a witch to stand against the whole village. 

 

Klaus: [Esther] was the true monster. She changed her children, stole our innocence, made us vampires, condemned us to an eternity of bloodlust, and then acted as if we were to blame.

Very true. I'm surprised Klaus in particular is as sane as he is after all his family has put him through. If any of the family has an excuse to be completely and utterly gibbering insane it's him.

 

 

Esther's original vampirism spell wasn't supposed to include the bloodlust. That was a mistake she made, and one she owns up to. And it's not that she blames her children and wants to punish them, but she can't sit by and watch them continue to torture and massacre innocents for the rest of eternity. Turning them human is actually very kind, and Klaus would think so too if he wasn't such a power obsessed, bloodthirsty tyrant.  

 

Esther thinks she's actually doing good by doing what she's doing. Esther is COMPLETELY insane, there's no question about that.

 

 

She IS doing good. If Esther wipes out the vampire race, all of whom are at least one time killers and regular offenders of mind violation, she'd be saving millions of innocent lives from murder and rape all around the world.

Edited October 22, 2014 by driedfruit

[bluebonnet]

There is a reason Mikael loathed weakness, it's because strength meant survival in their society. If she made Mikael weak it would come at a terrible cost to their family. In most strength based patriarchal societies, the families without a powerful male head don't fare too well. And she definitely wasn't strong enough of a witch to stand against the whole village. 

 

 

That doesn't have anything to do with Mikael's vicious violence towards his children.  It's actually possible to show strength without gravely abusing one's children.  If there's a talisman to make someone weak, surely there's a talisman to make someone calm the fuck down.  

 

 

Esther's original vampirism spell wasn't supposed to include the bloodlust. That was a mistake she made, and one she owns up to. And it's not that she blames her children and wants to punish them, but she can't sit by and watch them continue to torture and massacre innocents for the rest of eternity. Turning them human is actually very kind, and Klaus would think so too if he wasn't such a power obsessed, bloodthirsty tyrant. 

 

She doesn't take any responsibility for her own actions as a parent.  She made a mistake with a spell, ok.  Mistakes happen.  But all we've ever seen of Esther is of a terrible, shitty, abusive, manipulative parent.  She's made them what they are and now she just continues to manipulate and terrorize them.  She can't even sit down to a family dinner without ulterior motives.  Why should they even consider any 'gifts' from Esther when she's never given them any reason to believe she can offer something good?  

 

She IS doing good. If Esther wipes out the vampire race, all of whom are at least one time killers and regular offenders of mind violation, she'd be saving millions of innocent lives from murder and rape all around the world.

 

 

Well that would suck because wiping out all these characters means we have no more show.  But seriously, there is a right and wrong way to go about these things. The idea of ridding the world of any bad stuff is hopelessly romantic, but it's implausible for obvious reasons.  

[rue721]

There is a reason Mikael loathed weakness, it's because strength meant survival in their society. If she made Mikael weak it would come at a terrible cost to their family.

 

It seems like Mikael was injuring Klaus pretty seriously. I mean, in this past episode he impaled him into a tree with his sword, and in other episodes he was doing crazy shit like beating him with a bull whip. During all the time Klaus would have to spend recovering from injuries like that, how could he contribute to the family in virtually any meaningful way? The cost of not weakening Mikael and therefore keeping him working at top capacity, was the Klaus's work capacity was severely diminished (because of Mikael's violence toward him). On net, I doubt that the family was better off with, for example, Mikael operating at 100% (no necklace, no injuries) and Klaus operating at 50% (necklace + injuries), compared to Mikael operating at 80% (necklace, no injuries) and Klaus operating at 80% (necklace, no injuries).

 

I think that Esther thought that Mikael was *helping* Klaus by "keeping him under control." Like she said about the necklace, I think she saw Mikael's violence and intimidation as a way for Mikael to protect Klaus from himself. She seemed to assume that the minute Klaus got out from under Mikael's thumb or lost the necklace (or got rid of the binding spell) or otherwise got "out of control," that he would become the monster he was ultimately doomed to be (triggering the curse, etc). If she could have daggered human!Klaus and kept him completely paralyzed/compliant/"controlled," in the same way he eventually kept daggering all his siblings, I feel like she would have. Now I know where he got that from, I guess!

 

In light of this SL about the weakening necklace, I actually wonder if Mikael was/is also operating under a spell of Esther's to make him especially strong and wrathful against Klaus specifically. It's bizarre how bloodthirsty he's always been toward *just* Klaus, especially considering he supposedly thought Klaus was his own son the whole time they were alive.

Edited October 22, 2014 by rue721

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wonder how long Marcel wore that bird necklace and was inadvertently weakened by it.

[immortalfrieza]

That doesn't have anything to do with Mikael's vicious violence towards his children.  It's actually possible to show strength without gravely abusing one's children.  If there's a talisman to make someone weak, surely there's a talisman to make someone calm the fuck down.  

I doubt Esther would even need a talisman to get Mikael to stop abusing Klaus, I don't see why all she'd need to do is tell Mikael "if you beat up my kid one more time I'll snap my fingers and break your spine" or something like that. Regardless, Esther could have easily stopped Mikael in one way or the other. I think Mikael suspected the entire time that Klaus wasn't his kid, so he tortured Klaus for fun to make himself feel better about that.

I wonder how long Marcel wore that bird necklace and was inadvertently weakened by it.

It probably only worked on Klaus, and they didn't really make it clear what they meant by "weakened". Did it mean that Klaus was weaker than a normal human, or did it just prevent Klaus' werewolf gene from activating?

Well that would suck because wiping out all these characters means we have no more show.  But seriously, there is a right and wrong way to go about these things. The idea of ridding the world of any bad stuff is hopelessly romantic, but it's implausible for obvious reasons.  

The idea that wiping out all the vampires would be a good thing is flawed anyway, considering that from what we've seen on both shows they run the gauntlet from complete mass murdering psychopaths to basically good people, just like real people. I don't know how many vampires there are in TVD world, but plenty of them are probably good people that have never killed anyone. Do the bad vamps outweigh the good? We don't know since we have no idea how vampire society works, the New Orleans vampires being the closest to an actual community that we've seen and they've been pretty vague about that.

[driedfruit]

That doesn't have anything to do with Mikael's vicious violence towards his children.  It's actually possible to show strength without gravely abusing one's children.  If there's a talisman to make someone weak, surely there's a talisman to make someone calm the fuck down.  

But it's not like Mikael is gonna stupidly trust his wife and wear a talisman. He knows she was this incredibly powerful witch. He'd chuck any necklace she gave him as far as he could throw it. LOL

 

I don't even think the talisman works on normal human attributes. Klaus was perfectly strong for a human ('weak' Klaus bested Elijah in sword fight). What the talisman seems to do is ward off Klaus' supernatural strength from his werewolf side. At least that's how I understand it. 

 

She doesn't take any responsibility for her own actions as a parent.  She made a mistake with a spell, ok.  Mistakes happen.  But all we've ever seen of Esther is of a terrible, shitty, abusive, manipulative parent.  She's made them what they are and now she just continues to manipulate and terrorize them.

 

The whole point of Esther's return is precisely that she does take responsibility. The reason she's trying to wipe out vampirism is to redeem her own mistake.  And she obviously loves her children, but she's a Machiavellian to the core so things like terrorizing them is only a means to a worthy end. She's a terrible parent, I completely agree, but she's also kind of a saviour. If I lived in TVD universe I'd be grateful to her. :P

 

It seems like Mikael was injuring Klaus pretty seriously. I mean, in this past episode he impaled him into a tree with his sword, and in other episodes he was doing crazy shit like beating him with a bull whip. During all the time Klaus would have to spend recovering from injuries like that, how could he contribute to the family in virtually any meaningful way?

 

Klaus looked about 8 when she made him the necklace. He'd be a scrawny kid/teen for another 8 years or so, maybe 10 depending on how fast he'd develop. 

 

I don't know how many vampires there are in TVD world, but plenty of them are probably good people that have never killed anyone.

 

 

There's no such a thing. The most 'good' vampire in TVD is Caroline and in her 2 or so years of being a vampire she has murdered into the double digits. Stefan and Damon actually had a conversation about how every vampire kills, even the good ones (I think this was back when Elena originally turned). The mind control is almost as bad as the murder (in many cases worse), and again, the nicest vampire out there uses it every other day. Also most vamps have lived for 100s of years while most of their kill are teens and in there 20s and never even get one lifetime. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by driedfruit

[rue721]

But it's not like Mikael is gonna stupidly trust his wife and wear a talisman. He knows she was this incredibly powerful witch. He'd chuck any necklace she gave him as far as he could throw it. LOL

 

I doubt that Mikael would be so distrustful of his own wife, he still has never even said a bad word about her or to her that I know of. Even when he referred to her to Davina a little while ago he said something about Davina using the Grimoire of "a master." Klaus claimed that once Mikael found out that Klaus wasn't his son by blood, Mikael killed Esther when he slaughtered the werewolf pack -- but in reality, Mikael didn't attack Esther even then.

 

Also, I think it actually would be more likely than not that he actually did and maybe still does carry something around of Esther's, like a "favor" or lock of her hair or something, as a token of their marriage (since I don't think men wore wedding rings back then?). I don't think Esther would have to use a magical object to put a spell on him anyway, I think that she could probably just have put a spell on him directly. She even eventually put that binding spell on Klaus directly so that he couldn't turn into a wolf, so I doubt that it would have been impossible for her to put a spell directly on a regular human being like Mikael.

 

I doubt Esther would even need a talisman to get Mikael to stop abusing Klaus, I don't see why all she'd need to do is tell Mikael "if you beat up my kid one more time I'll snap my fingers and break your spine" or something like that. Regardless, Esther could have easily stopped Mikael in one way or the other. I think Mikael suspected the entire time that Klaus wasn't his kid, so he tortured Klaus for fun to make himself feel better about that.

 

What I got from their conversation at dinner is that she actually thought it was a good idea that Mikael was beating Klaus, it wasn't even just that she was neutral about it, she supported it, she thought that it was protecting Klaus from his own monstrous/werewolf impulses. I dunno, I was pretty shocked that she would do things like:  When her young kid tells her he's scared to go hunting with his dad, apparently she thinks, "uh oh, if he's scared, soon he's going to be pissed, and then since he's a ticking time bomb/monster, he'll murder someone and trigger the curse -- so I'd better do something to keep him in check now," and gives him a talisman to make him more vulnerable. When she finds her son impaled to a tree with a sword and beaten bloody, and he's holding something that's *weakening* him, she doesn't slap it out of his hand, she tells him to go on and put it back on. Can't he not wear the necklace while he's healing at least?

 

If it turns out that Mikael is so rabid because she put a spell on him, so that he'd act as a sort of guard dog and keep Klaus "in his place," and they manage to break that spell, can you imagine how Mikael would feel? His kids only know him as a monster. He *has* been a monster for a 1000 years. This is probably wishful thinking on my part, that they'll break a spell and he'll just kinda shake his head and be like, "what? I did WHAT?" and suddenly be a kind/not bloodthirsty person. It's probably not even a good idea, story-wise. I mean if that happens, then what, Mikael is a total victim and Esther is a total monster? But after this necklace thing, and Esther's new plan destroy her kids' lives to keep them in line (and this is the softer-and-fuzzier Esther, at least she's not planning outright murdering them or to create yet another Golem (aka, Original, aka, Alaric) out of some human being to sic on them), I'm wondering what else Esther was rigging up back then.

 

Speaking of Esther's plan, I'm actually not really sure what specifically she's trying to take away from each person in order to bend them to her will? She said she'd already gotten Klaus where she wanted him, but I don't really see how? He seemed to end the episode with as much hubris as ever, but I don't think that was what she was going for? I also literally can't understand what she says when she mentions that at the very end when she's talking to Finn, which probably doesn't help. I was trying to think about what she would do to everyone else anyway, but I'm not coming up with anything very interesting, tbh. What do they even have that she could ruin/take?

 

Also, why was she late for that dinner, and why did she send Finn to stall for her?

 

Anyway, because I KEEP FORGETTING to mention it, I wanted to put out there that I *love* Esther/Lenore and Finn/Vincent, these actors are wonderful. I have no idea how they pulled a coup like getting Sonja Sohn on this show, but I hope she stays for the duration, she's perfect for the role. I really can't wait to see Esther and Mikael's reunion now, I'm practically rubbing my hands together in glee. And I don't think I've ever seen the actor playing Vincent before, but damn, in this past episode I actually cared about Finn (and was scared of him, he was incredibly creepy). They're really bringing the characters to life, it's great.

 

What is UP with Finn, anyway? Why is he so bizarrely obsessed with Esther? When they said before that he was a momma's boy, I didn't realize that he was jealously watching from afar whenever she spoke to her other kids or anything as creepy as all that. And I feel bad for him, because Esther repays him for his (albeit uncanny) devotion by murdering him in her spell last time, and using him as her lackey now. If Esther's MO is to put people in such a vulnerable, awful position that they have no other option but to turn to her for help, and then she can make basically whatever deal she wants with them, then what did she do to put Finn in that position? Also, why do Finn and Elijah apparently despise each other? I thought that Elijah was the apple of everyone's eye in that family. Oh. Wait. Never mind, I maybe answered that last question myself.

[TheHappinessHotel]

Why did Esther swap bodies?  Is there a reason for that?  Does that mean Finn and Kol switched as well?

 

I second what others have said above about a "real" family reunion!  I absolutely love The Original family and would like to see the original characters who potrayed them all come back.  

 

It was great to see the original Esther in flashbacks last night.  What is current Esther offering them though?  Stripping them of vampirism and turning them into witches?

 

Does anyone know why Claire Holt left?  Is she working on another project?

 

Also, why did Mikael pick Klaus to abuse?  I know he later founds out that Klaus isn't his, but why did he single him out all those years prior?

All these questions are popping into my head.  If Mikael didn't kill Esther like Klaus thought, then how did she die?

Edited October 23, 2014 by TheHappinessHotel

[rue721]

Does anyone know why Claire Holt left?  Is she working on another project?

 

Yes, she's on a network show (a detective show set in the 1970s, iIrc) that's premiering in January.

 

What is current Esther offering them though?  Stripping them of vampirism and turning them into witches?

 

I think she's offering to put them into human bodies, so they can live out human lives.

 

I don't think she's making them witches, I think they're witches by birth (or at least some of them are?), because they're her descendents. Back on TVD, it seemed like magic was something that cropped up in some witches' descendents and not in others, but on this show, characters were able to do things like use fetus!Hope's blood as part of a spell that required the blood of a witch, since fetus!Hope was 1/4 witch (by way of Esther). So I don't think it's as arbitrary on this show, I think on TO, if you're descended from a witch, then you're a witch (or part-witch or whatever).

 

On the other hand, maybe Esther just put Finn and Kol into witches' bodies, and that's why they can practice witchcraft?

 

I know Kol was a witch already, even in his old body, but I don't think that was true of Finn. On TVD, though, the ability to practice witchcraft also seemed like it's something that only starts manifesting in late adolescence/early adulthood, so maybe the other siblings just didn't happen develop it before they died, but would have if they'd lived longer?

 

If Mikael didn't kill Esther like Klaus thought, then how did she die?

 

Klaus killed Esther in a rage, or at least that's what the paintings in the caves over by Mystic Falls depicted. Mikael had already run off to slaughter the werewolf pack, so Klaus told his siblings that Mikael had killed her. The TVD gang told Rebekah about the paintings, she confronted Klaus, and from what I remember, he confirmed that he'd done it, but didn't give a lot of detail. When Esther came back from the dead soon after, she told Klaus that she forgave him for it, but I don't think they talked about the details, either. I wish they would do a flashback of *that.* Considering that Esther was a powerful witch, I actually don't know how Klaus even got the jump on her and managed to kill her, though. I also don't remember or they never revealed what was going on that led to him going into a rage, either.

[TheHappinessHotel]

Yes, she's on a network show (a detective show set in the 1970s, iIrc) that's premiering in January.

 

 

I think she's offering to put them into human bodies, so they can live out human lives.

 

I don't think she's making them witches, I think they're witches by birth (or at least some of them are?), because they're her descendents. Back on TVD, it seemed like magic was something that cropped up in some witches' descendents and not in others, but on this show, characters were able to do things like use fetus!Hope's blood as part of a spell that required the blood of a witch, since fetus!Hope was 1/4 witch (by way of Esther). So I don't think it's as arbitrary on this show, I think on TO, if you're descended from a witch, then you're a witch (or part-witch or whatever).

 

On the other hand, maybe Esther just put Finn and Kol into witches' bodies, and that's why they can practice witchcraft?

 

I know Kol was a witch already, even in his old body, but I don't think that was true of Finn. On TVD, though, the ability to practice witchcraft also seemed like it's something that only starts manifesting in late adolescence/early adulthood, so maybe the other siblings just didn't happen develop it before they died, but would have if they'd lived longer?

 

 

Klaus killed Esther in a rage, or at least that's what the paintings in the caves over by Mystic Falls depicted. Mikael had already run off to slaughter the werewolf pack, so Klaus told his siblings that Mikael had killed her. The TVD gang told Rebekah about the paintings, she confronted Klaus, and from what I remember, he confirmed that he'd done it, but didn't give a lot of detail. When Esther came back from the dead soon after, she told Klaus that she forgave him for it, but I don't think they talked about the details, either. I wish they would do a flashback of *that.* Considering that Esther was a powerful witch, I actually don't know how Klaus even got the jump on her and managed to kill her, though. I also don't remember or they never revealed what was going on that led to him going into a rage, either.

 

 

Thanks for all the info!  It is very much appreciated.

While I am happy Claire got another gig, I am a tad saddened as well.  The Originals seems like a sure thing (multiple seasons) so I am kind of surprised she jumped ship like that.

[Cattitude]

Claire Holt missed LA and didn't want to be in Atlanta long term. She chose to leave to be in LA not for another show. I guess since then she got this other show.

Plec says she will make guest appearances.

[driedfruit]

I doubt that Mikael would be so distrustful of his own wife, he still has never even said a bad word about her or to her that I know of. Even when he referred to her to Davina a little while ago he said something about Davina using the Grimoire of "a master." Klaus claimed that once Mikael found out that Klaus wasn't his son by blood, Mikael killed Esther when he slaughtered the werewolf pack -- but in reality, Mikael didn't attack Esther even then.

 

Also, I think it actually would be more likely than not that he actually did and maybe still does carry something around of Esther's, like a "favor" or lock of her hair or something, as a token of their marriage (since I don't think men wore wedding rings back then?). I don't think Esther would have to use a magical object to put a spell on him anyway, I think that she could probably just have put a spell on him directly. She even eventually put that binding spell on Klaus directly so that he couldn't turn into a wolf, so I doubt that it would have been impossible for her to put a spell directly on a regular human being like Mikael.

Mikael isn't an idiot. If Esther gave him a necklace and suddenly he was weaker, he'd know that she was behind it. And he would get rid of her gift, at least to see if there was a change. The only reason it worked on Klaus is because he was a kid. 

 

I think you're overestimating Esther's powers. If she could just put a spell on people, then she would just put a spell on Klaus. She wouldn't have to freak out every time the kid lost his necklace or it got ripped off of him. The spell she later used to suppress his wolf side from his vamp doesn't count. That spell harnessed the magical power of a doppelgänger (Tatia). And she didn't have one of those to kill for every time she wanted to do a spell. 

 

If it turns out that Mikael is so rabid because she put a spell on him, so that he'd act as a sort of guard dog and keep Klaus "in his place," and they manage to break that spell, can you imagine how Mikael would feel? His kids only know him as a monster.

 

That doesn't make sense, because Mikael was brought up in a very masculine kill or be killed society, where weakness was a sin. His attitude towards parenting is obviously gonna be different than our modern one. Probably something he learned from his own father. Though, his hatred for Klaus has always been extra. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by driedfruit

[mac123x]

What is UP with Finn, anyway? Why is he so bizarrely obsessed with Esther? When they said before that he was a momma's boy, I didn't realize that he was jealously watching from afar whenever she spoke to her other kids or anything as creepy as all that.

 

Honestly, I was getting a major incest vibe whenever Flashback!Esther or Possessing!Someone!Esther interacted with Finn.  Her loving caresses of his cheek could have been motherly love, but it just came across as icky to me.  Maybe he's just stuck in on Oedipus complex and it's entirely one sided, but it looked mutual.  Just ... eww.

 

I'm liking the way this show is going so far, with multiple, mutually antagonistic groups.  Originals, moonlight-ring wolves, Esther & Finn, Kol seeming to go rogue and maybe teaming up with Davina & Michael.  It's got some potential.

[ursula]

On 10/22/2014 at 10:47 AM, driedfruit said:

She IS doing good. If Esther wipes out the vampire race, all of whom are at least one time killers and regular offenders of mind violation, she'd be saving millions of innocent lives from murder and rape all around the world.

 

On 10/23/2014 at 5:32 AM, driedfruit said:

There's no such a thing. The most 'good' vampire in TVD is Caroline and in her 2 or so years of being a vampire she has murdered into the double digits. Stefan and Damon actually had a conversation about how every vampire kills, even the good ones (I think this was back when Elena originally turned). The mind control is almost as bad as the murder (in many cases worse), and again, the nicest vampire out there uses it every other day.

Wish I could quote all these arguments because they are so well said. While we know that vampires can find some form of moral code, and live relatively un-violent lives, the bottom line is that they are a threat to humanity as a whole. It's hard to notice - because all our pov characters are vampires or hybrids - all the dead bodies lying around the Mikaelson house, or the stoned-out girls that offer their wrists to be sliced and drained into wine cups. Even Caroline's blood-bag diet is still a vampire robbing hospitals of a finite life-saving resource. The closest a vampire ever came to living a "decent" life was Stefan's bunny diet, and that was laughed off in the first few seasons of the show.