Will Scarlet, Knave of Hearts: Bloody Hell!

[rachel1496]

Then she redeemed herself and got back together with Will. Am I missing something there? Is the timeline different? 

Nope, you have it right.  Will never fell in love with a villian, he was in love with EF Ana and then fell in love again with newly reformed Ana.  When she was in full Red Queen mode he wanted nothing to do with her.  I have no idea how the writers think this is the same thing as Belle falling in love with Rumple who has been evil since the day they met.

[Rumsy4]

Eddy messes up lines and plots from OUAT in interviews. So, this is not surprising...

I read a meta/theory that Ana backslid after the events of OUATiW. So, both Will and Belle's True Loves chose power over them. I wish they had shown a conversation between them rather then go for the WTF factor. It did not have to be romantic. Show them having drinks over at the Rabbit Hole, and bonding over their broken hearts. Then, their kiss would not have seemed so out of the blue.

[Camera One]

I read a meta/theory that Ana backslid after the events of OUATiW.

 

Oh not again!  Except we will find in a very special flashback that she was coerced to, by a villain who threatened to kill Will.  But Will won't know that until later, and we won't know until 5A. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

. Show them having drinks over at the Rabbit Hole, and bonding over their broken hearts. Then, their kiss would not have seemed so out of the blue.

I could tolerate it more if we saw them gradually bonding, or even knew what the heck happened to Anastasia. We really know nothing about Will's role in the show, and he's been here over half a season already. They're trying to be oh-so-secretive about it and oh-so-clever, but he really feels superfluous. His material hasn't been entertaining and he's had almost no relevance to the main plot. What it looks like is a waste of a character being thrown into a dramatic romance as a way to keep him on the regulars list. What's the point of him even being on the list if they don't want to explore his story?

[scarynikki12]

The only thing I can think of that would make any kind of sense is that Will thinks Ana is dead, has been sneaking around trying to find some kind of resurrection spell, and is dating/hooking up with Belle as a way to manage the pain.  To be honest, my hope for their relationship is that neither is emotionally invested in the other and end up as friends who used to make out/sleep together.  I would love it if they were both completely aware that this is not a forever relationship, that it won't last more than a few months, and that its main purpose is to provide comfort in the wake of a great emotional trauma (Belle dumping Rumpel and Will dealing with whatever happened to Ana).  I would find that far more interesting than a potential love triangle with either Rumpel or Ana.

[Camera One]

Someone in the episode thread I think, or maybe the Relationships thread, speculated that Belle is pregnant and Will is helping her by pretending it's his baby?  But maybe that is too soap opera-ish even for this show, but it would explain the sudden-ness?  

Edited March 11, 2015 by Camera One

[coppersin]

Someone in the episode thread I think, or maybe the Relationships thread, speculated that Belle is pregnant and Will is helping her by pretending it's his baby?  But maybe that is too soap opera-ish even for this show, but it would explain the sudden-ness?  

That was me in the Relationships thread. I'm not sure what is/isn't too "soap opera" for this show anymore, what with the endless revenge plots and a Gordian knot for the family tree, but I'll admit a fake baby-daddy may be too far. Mostly I'm grasping at straws because I think Rumbelle could be interesting but probably won't be, and because I don't see Will moving past Ana. I just don't. So until the timeline is very clearly stated, I'm holding on to the hope that Will and Ana have been separated by magic, and he's just helping out a friend until they're reunited. Which is hopefully soon. And onscreen. 'Cause I really want a little more Will and Ana on my tv, especially after how sweet they looked at Alice's wedding.  

[Curio]

Can I just say how annoyed I am by how the writers have decided to use Will so far this season? Before he made his first appearance on this show, I had all these exciting possibilities in my head about how he could interact with the main cast and bring more witty snark into the show. His first appearance running away from Emma and Charming even had a lot of potential. But then what do the writers do? Have him aimlessly search for something on a beach (which we never found out what that actually was), never let him give the good guys any hints about Hook's heartless behavior (even though his main arc on the Wonderland series centered around his missing heart), and now he's randomly dating Belle out of the blue without any build up (and we still don't know what happened to Ana and it's been 16 episodes now). I feel bad for Socha; he made Will's character interesting and three-dimensional in the Wonderland series, but now he's just a plot device to make Rumple jealous of Belle's new relationship.

 

I think this is quite appropriate: Bloody Hell, Writers! 

Edited April 6, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Poor Will is the Ruby of this season -- made a regular and then promptly forgotten.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm disappointed too. I wish they would have left Wonderland alone. It was perfect.

I remember lurking on tumblr awhile back and read a comment how Will was being portrayed as pre-wonderland in a post-wonderland timeline and I think I agree with that.

Did A&E ever officially confirm if Wonderland had already taken place in the Once timeline? I mean it certainly matches up with stuff that already happened in Once.

Anyways, watching the wonderful arcs the characters go through, like Will's just doesn't click with he's being portrayed. Will fought for his true love and got a happy ending out it. I can't see Post-Wonderland Will jumping into a relationship with Belle after he fought so hard to get back with Ana. Ana can't be dead, because they become King and Queen. And I honestly can't see Ana backsliding into villainous ways like Regina or Rumple after what she went through.

I just don't think Post-W Will would jump into another relationship if Ana's still out there? It doesn't seem right.

And sorry for all the pre/post differentiations. I only did that because I believe that the characters grew and learned some valuable lessons, including Will, during Wonderland. So the Will I see in Once is not the full equivalent of the Will we see at the end of Wonderland.

And yes, I know the writers are probably writing his character more as if no one watched Wonderland, but they could have done a better job.

Oh, and kinda an off topic question: At this point is it necessary to use spoiler tags when talking about Wonderland in the Once thread? People have had a year to either watch it or not if they were interested.

[Camera One]

Did A&E ever officially confirm if Wonderland had already taken place in the Once timeline? I mean it certainly matches up with stuff that already happened in Once.

Anyways, watching the wonderful arcs the characters go through, like Will's just doesn't click with he's being portrayed. Will fought for his true love and got a happy ending out it. I can't see Post-Wonderland Will jumping into a relationship with Belle after he fought so hard to get back with Ana. Ana can't be dead, because they become King and Queen. And I honestly can't see Ana backsliding into villainous ways like Regina or Rumple after what she went through.

 

I feel exactly the same.  I wondered this too, and I vaguely remember someone confirming Kitsis said the Will we're seeing in Season 4 is after the events of Wonderland.

 

I would find it a whole lot more palatable, if this was Will BEFORE the Wonderland series.  He has all the character traits of his pre-redeemed self.   As much as I liked Will on the spinoff, we've seen that journey before, and we don't need to see it again.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

If this was pre-Wonderland Will, that would ruin the mystery behind his presence in Storybrooke, and his budding romance with Belle. At least now, the writing can hint at the possibility of Will/Belle. This would not be possible if this was before the events of OUATiW. Of course, they've done a crappy job of utilizing him, but that's all I've got.

[Camera One]

I agree that is the reason too.  Though the viewers who never watched Wonderland would be curious about his backstory regardless of whether it was before or after Wonderland (if they paid any attention to Will at all, that is).  While the fans of Wonderland would be more liable to be pissed off than wracked with curiosity.

[retrograde]

I'm about 77% sure A&E did confirm it was post-Wonderland Will, but I can't think of what to Google to find any such interview.

[Mathius]

They've confirmed it multiple times. So did Jane Espenson on Twitter.

Poor Will is the Ruby of this season -- made a regular and then promptly forgotten.

Don't forget Archie before her, and Neal after her...though at least he had death as an excuse. Edited April 8, 2015 by Mathius

[rachel1496]

I'm disappointed too. I wish they would have left Wonderland alone. It was perfect.

Anyways, watching the wonderful arcs the characters go through, like Will's just doesn't click with he's being portrayed. Will fought for his true love and got a happy ending out it. I can't see Post-Wonderland Will jumping into a relationship with Belle after he fought so hard to get back with Ana. Ana can't be dead, because they become King and Queen. And I honestly can't see Ana backsliding into villainous ways like Regina or Rumple after what she went through.

I just don't think Post-W Will would jump into another relationship if Ana's still out there? It doesn't seem right.

 

If they make Ana a villian again I'll join the CS fans in the table flipping.  Marrying the Red King was hurtful but it was at worst an incredibly selfish act of self-preservation, not evil.  She was a fairly shitty queen but the real villainous stuff didn't happen until she decided to help Jafar so she could get Will back.  She's already admitted that she was horrible, faced up to it and made amends even when she thought Will would never love her again.   She had the chance to run from Wonderland and she choose to stay and fight.  There's no logical reason why she'd suddenly turn evil after that other than it clears the way for a guilt free Will to hook up with Belle. 

At this point I'm assuming that we're never going to find out what happened to her and the writers are hoping we'll all just forget Wonderland was ever really a thing.

[Rumsy4]

These writers just can't seem to leave things well alone. They're like toddlers who take apart something that was well put together, and mess with it, and make it less that it was. They did this to Cora in Bleeding Through.

[KingOfHearts]

Will sticks out like a sore thumb. You could give his part to any of the other secondary characters. He's basically a Hook/Robin combo. When he joined the show, I thought it was because Wonderland was going to be part of the plot, but so far all we've gotten are Red Queen pages from the library. I understand they wanted to snag the actor, but geez... his character is just so useless and not unique at all.

 

I highly doubt Scarlet Beauty is going anywhere. There's no way they're going to break up two confirmed True Love couples for that. It's Rumpbelle angst, pure and simple.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I highly doubt Scarlet Beauty is going anywhere. There's no way they're going to break up two confirmed True Love couples for that. It's Rumpbelle angst, pure and simple.

 

I go back and forth on this. With this show's obsession with True Love and redemption of villains (except Pan), a successful TLK between Belle and Rumple is almost guaranteed. At the same time, I have a strong feeling that Rumple will die by the end of the series. So, Scarlet Beauty may yet have a future, because leaving any of the main cast without a romantic partner is apparently not an option.

 

I guess the mystery of what happened to Ana will be mentioned as a throwaway line by the end of the season, and that will be it. We may get a backstory episode in S5, if the actress who played Ana is available and interested. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

So, Scarlet Beauty may yet have a future, because leaving any of the main cast without a romantic partner is apparently not an option.

Replying in Relationships.

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[JustaPerson]

Maybe they can retcon the timeline and have the events of Wonderland happen AFTER what's happening right now in OUAT so the Will we saw with Belle was the detached, heartless one who wanted nothing to do with RedQueen!Ana

[Camera One]

I wish the writers cared enough to do that, but I don't think they do.  They specifically chose this timeline, and part of the so-called mystery is what happened to Anastasia.  If they ever even get to the mystery, that is.  It would be pretty ridiculous if it's delayed until 5A.  It certainly looks to be the case, considering Will has been totally irrelevant to the 4B storyline thus far.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

Honestly, they should have just held off on introducing Will until Season 5. I get that the writers wanted to "ease him in" to the story, but there's a big difference between being "eased in to pique interest" and "only using a character for 30 seconds and making their scenes completely random and pointless." Either give him a legitimate story line and purpose to be in town, or don't introduce him at all. And I'm saying this as someone who loved his character in the Wonderland series and was excited about him coming on as a regular in Season 4. At this point, I'd say that Isaac has had more screen time and better character development in a few episodes of 4B than Will has had all season.

[Mari]

At this point, I'd say that Isaac has had more screen time and better character development in a few episodes of 4B than Will has had all season.

Yes, but Isaac is an Alien Vampire Bunny, and you know how much they love those.

 

Will is just a character.

[Curio]

Yes, but Isaac is an Alien Vampire Bunny, and you know how much they love those.

 

Ah, yes. I forgot that we can only flesh out the villains du jours but not the other regular cast members. Silly me.

[angora]

How do they do a plot revolving about Will's girlfriend's heart being stolen and never mention Will's own experience with heartlessness?  I know there's a whole "this show" factor, but come on!  Especially since Will in Wonderland had the best characterization the show has ever done of someone without a heart - have these writers forgotten everything about Will other than his (short-lived) history as a Merry Man?

 

(Although I did love it when he warned Rumpel that he was scrappy.  Oh, Will...)

[Mari]

I was actually sort of hoping that Rumple would try and take Will's heart, only to discover that Will's is currently elsewhere.  (Like safely in storage somewhere;  it's not like Will hasn't done that before.)

[HoodlumSheep]

I know, I think you could sort of see glimpses of the whole "I was heartless once" thanks to some of the looks Socha gave, but it is a shame that he never got to say anything about it or something.

I don't know if Will would hide his heart again after what happened in Wonderland. And then there's the fact that someone else would have had to remove it (unless he somehow acquired magic).

[rachel1496]

Well Show, you've finally done it. I no longer like Will. I no longer care where Ana is and I actually hope she's somewhere far, far away hanging with the Tweedle that didn't sell her ass out to Jafar. Will and Ana as characters and as a relationship were two of the few good things this show as done in a long time so obviously they had to be sacrificed on the Altar of Even More Rumbelle Bullshit.

Speaking of bullshit, Will was heartless for years and he didn't notice anything odd about Belle?

Edited April 27, 2015 by rachel1496

[Curio]

Speaking of bullshit, Will was heartless for years and he didn't notice anything odd about Belle?

 

He apparently didn't notice anything odd about Hook, either.

 

As much as I hate how useless Will is at the moment, I have to give props to Socha for his acting in the episode. When he's actually given decent material, he can convey so much with just a facial expression.

[Shanna Marie]

Well Show, you've finally done it. I no longer like Will. I no longer care where Ana is and I actually hope she's somewhere far, far away hanging with the Tweedle that didn't sell her ass out to Jafar.

Maybe Ana is paying Alice and Cyrus a visit and getting lots of consolation while both of them vow to hunt Will down for her.

 

And in Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville, they stop by Storybrooke and we get another fun scene of them playing with modern conveniences.

[Rumsy4]

Poor Will. Belle looked ready to ditch him in that last scene. The whole "bless you my children" speech by Rumple felt quite disingenuous. I think Rumple is still planning to get rid of Will by using the Author.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I felt so bad for Will, the way his fingers kinda curled slightly, trying to hang onto belle's hand. And then the other part of me's screaming, "you've got Ana back home!" And "WHERE THE WIGGITY-WACK IS ANA?!"

I'm glad Michael Socha finally got a little more to do though, because he is an excellent actor.

[angora]

Yeah, the extent to which Will is working for me is all down to Socha; he's terrific.

 

If they were going to involve Will in this plot, I wish they would've done it like this:  have Will obviously twig that something is up with Belle, and then when he sees Rumpel skulking around, accuse him of stealing Belle's heart (on the grounds that Will recognizes the signs when he sees them - not necessarily an explicit reference to Wonderland, but a good-sized nod.)  Then, have Rumpel see an opportunity to use Will to recover the heart and explain that it's actually Regina who took it, and the plot proceeds as normal (although without Rumpel "bestowing" the job of looking after Belle's heart on Will - ew.)

[Mathius]

Honestly, they should have just held off on introducing Will until Season 5. I get that the writers wanted to "ease him in" to the story, but there's a big difference between being "eased in to pique interest" and "only using a character for 30 seconds and making their scenes completely random and pointless." Either give him a legitimate story line and purpose to be in town, or don't introduce him at all. And I'm saying this as someone who loved his character in the Wonderland series and was excited about him coming on as a regular in Season 4. At this point, I'd say that Isaac has had more screen time and better character development in a few episodes of 4B than Will has had all season.

Turns out A&E have all but confirmed the explanation for Will in Storybrooke won't be until next season. When asked if we'd get it in the finale, their answer was "Not immediately", so I'm guessing we'll get some sort of hint at it but the whole story won't be told until next season.

To which I say "why didn't you just wait UNTIL that season to bring him in!?"

Edited April 30, 2015 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

To which I say "why didn't you just wait UNTIL that season to bring him in!?"

I suspect it had something to do with keeping the actor on the hook while he was already under contract for Wonderland. If they'd let him go after that, there was a good chance he'd have been cast in something else, and then they wouldn't have been able to get him back when they did want him.

[LizaD]

I think it just proves that they actually don't plan things too far ahead that are written in stone or that they are bald faced liars. Or both. As late as 4a interviews they were still claiming that Will's and Will and Anna's story was going to be explored in 4B.

It also proves that these clowns, given enough time, will RUIN any and everything. How is it that they managed to turn the most fun character on Wonderland, played by a charismatic actor into a block of useless wood? How? I guess it isn't too shocking considering even Carlyle's level of talent can't save this dreck. I hope Rigby gets enough work to stay away from this show.

[Curio]

I think it just proves that they actually don't plan things too far ahead that are written in stone or that they are bald faced liars. Or both. As late as 4a interviews they were still claiming that Will's and Will and Anna's story was going to be explored in 4B.

 

"We’re really excited about the second half because we’re going to see much more Will."

 

I think we have very different definitions of the words: much, more, and Will.

[Mathius]

I hope Rigby gets enough work to stay away from this show.

Unfortunately, given their current filming status, Emma Rigby and Naveen Andrews seem most likely to be bought into joining this show. Sophie Lowe and Peter Gadiot are surprisingly busy, but their characters had far less likelihood of appearing anyway.

I think we have very different definitions of the words: much, more, and Will.

We have absolutely had LESS of Will in 4B. Unless every deleted scene from every 4B episode had Will in them, which I find highly unlikely, this statement makes zero sense. Edited May 4, 2015 by Mathius

[LizaD]

 

Unfortunately, given their current filming status, Emma Rigby and Naveen Andrews seem most likely to be bought into joining this show.

I don't know if they're actually interested in having Rigby/Ana back. I'm not sure I want her back either. It'd be hard to watch the superior character get shafted in the service of the absolute trash of a character that needs an entire show and cast of characters to prop her worthless butt. And there's bound to be comparisons and Ana is likely to be destroyed for their pet project. A quick look on IMDB tells me Rigby is moving up in the world. She's in the same movie as Idris Elba! That's life right there.

 

Their history also says if a story keeps getting "pushed" back it's more than likely never going to happen. I'm almost positive they canned Will's story sometime in 4A while they were plotting 4B. He had some nice scenes in 4A with the main cast before they stuck him in Rumbelle purgatory. It says a lot that they don't even bother throwing a bone to his character by giving him a centric. Remember how the writers basically told the Belle fans to shut up cause she got 2 centrics-flashbacks in 4A? Because that of course makes up for her character standing around picking her nose with no lines for the other 9 episodes. They probably think giving him the "grand romance" with Belle is seeing much more of him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

They probably think giving him the "grand romance" with Belle is seeing much more of him.

Replying in Relationships.

[Curio]

When I first named this thread title, it was just a fun callout to Will's favorite catchphrase. But now, it's what I end up saying to myself whenever I look back at how badly the show butchered his "character arc" (if you can even call it that) in Season 4. Bloody hell, writers...why bring him on in the first place if you never bothered to do anything with him?

[HoodlumSheep]

I've just decided to headcanon that it was Will's evil twin brother Bill who for some reason got sucked into Storybrooke and decided to masquerade as him for whatever purpose. He also is in love with Ana.

It makes me so sad. Will was a great character in Wonderland, and It upsets me that a lot of people probably watched his 20 minutes of screen time and probably ended up hating his character. Go watch Wonderland people!

[Mari]

I've just decided to headcanon that it was Will's evil twin brother Bill who for some reason got sucked into Storybrooke and decided to masquerade as him for whatever purpose. He also is in love with Ana.

Or, he was swept back to Storybrooke with the second curse, and stole her picture for consolation, until in Offscreenville--where all the important stuff seems to happen--Rabbit came to fetch him and return him to Wonderland.

 

In the meantime, someone magical that Rumple messed with while Belle stood idly by admiring Rumple's good heart decided to get a little petty revenge by shapeshifting into Will and romancing Belle.  The reveal  and subsequent mhwahahahaing didn't happen because of Rumple's deDark Oneing.

[HoodlumSheep]

In the meantime, someone magical that Rumple messed with while Belle stood idly by admiring Rumple's good heart decided to get a little petty revenge by shapeshifting into Will and romancing Belle. The reveal and subsequent mhwahahahaing didn't happen because of Rumple's deDark Oneing.

Also in the meantime, I hope Ana gives Will a good smack upside the head when she finds out about Belle, with the nice tweedle cheering her on in the background. Alice can be there too (she promised to visit) to glare at him.

Why A&E, why did you do this to Will? ;_;

[Mathius]

Update: Will, Anastasia, and their story have been confirmed by Eddy Kitsis to have been screwed over SPECIFICALLY for guess whose story? That's right, Regina's. F***!

Edited July 29, 2015 by Mathius

[Faemonic]

Update: Will, Anastasia, and their story have been confirmed by Eddy Kitsis to have been screwed over SPECIFICALLY for guess whose story? That's right, Regina's. F***!

You mean this?

 

"There's just so many people that it's like, it's sometimes hard to do that story and sacrifice Regina's story. That's just showbiz." —Edward Kitsis

 

The thing is, I think that shows how Will's story wasn't a priority in the first place. There is always going to be Regina's story, but they could have given Maleficent only one episode like Cruella and Ursula (I actually liked Maleficent and Lily's story, so I'm glad they didn't), or they could have shelved the Author plot and made Regina's story exclusively a struggle through the love triangle rather than looking for God (and relegated Dark Heart Swan motivations to Rumple's spite, maybe with the Author just being a manipulative lie to get the Queens on board.)

 

Instead, they had all that, and I can't really blame them. I liked Will Scarlett, but if I think about having Mulan there instead, maybe commiserating with Robin Hood about how much the Curse sucks because she runs across Aurora on the sidewalk every day and it's awkwaaard, and Robin Hood somehow gets inspired from that to go for adultery, and it's Mulan who throws shade at Captain Jones for dating ("She should have fed you to the ogre when we had the chance! That camp had children! Why are you staring at your new hand like it's evil, blacksmith?") and snogs Belle, and does mushrooms (why did Mulan have a giant sack of opium powder?) ...I was about to say that I'm glad they ruined Will Scarlett instead, but now I don't know. Mulan being more than the show's twofer sounds kind of awesome now.

[Souris]

Michael Socha has a new series. Good for him. Guess we'll never know what happened with Will & Ana.

[Rumsy4]

As far as I am concerned, I'm going to pretend that Will was not in S4 at all. It was all a dream, or a mindworm.

[Souris]

My head canon is that Will was actually the nice Tweedle under an appearance spell on a seekrit mission for Will & Ana.