S05.E14: My Bloody Valentine

[DittyDotDot]

When couples kill each other in obscene way, Castiel suspects a Cupid has gone rogue.

 

This episode makes me miss Ben Edlund so very much. The man has such a knack for writing these one-off kooky characters that I feel like I could watch entire series about them alone. Plus, his use of language is something that I adore, so there's also that. I loved the idea of Cupid and it was an interesting take on Famine. Which now I need an aside on...I think all the horsemen in S5 were far more interesting ideas than they were in reality. Famine, like war, was fairly one-note as a character and pretty typical villainous guy that they like to show. But the idea of Famine being about hunger and how they tied it into what was going on with Sam and Dea was fantastic--much like the idea of War in Good God, Y'All. Lesson here, again, show...less is more!

 

Alright enough about that. I thought it was a stroke of genius that Dean wouldn't be affected by Famine because I think what Dean is hungry for Famine can't supply. I don't believe Dean is any more empty or soulless than I believed War when he said Sam wanted to be stronger than everyone. IMO, Dean is hungry for something akin to faith and hope and that can't be filled with a bottle, women, burgers or anything physical. And I think this is the episode where Dean loses what little faith he had in Sam since it's the episode Sam gives in to the demon blood addiction. But more on that when we get to Point Of No Return.

 

My only real irritation about this episode is they aired it out of order so it would coincide with Valentine's Day, which makes the transition into the next episode clunky, IMO. But, if I just reorder my own viewing, that's not really a problem.

[AwesomO4000]

And I think this is the episode where Dean loses what little faith he had in Sam since it's the episode Sam gives in to the demon blood addiction. But more on that when we get to Point Of No Return.

 

And that's an interesting point. I don't think Castiel breaking down helped either. The interesting thing for me is that despite Sam's giving in to the bloodlust, I think in a way, this actually gave Sam more confidence in himself in the end. For one thing, Sam told Dean quickly he was having problems, admitting he would have a problem trying to hunt that way rather than trying to hide it - a huge step in Winchesterland - and then he took himself smartly out of play and asked Dean for help to lock him up. And again this was showing Sam trusting Dean with this information and being mature enough to admit he needed help so he wouldn't get out of control. And then in the end, even though Sam was hopped up on demon blood, he told Famine "no" and refused all of the demon blood (power) Famine offered and went back into detox (despite knowing how awful it was going to be).

 

So even though for Dean it might have been an example of Sam falling off the wagon so that Dean felt he couldn't trust him, in a way, it might've meant the opposite for Sam. He fell off that wagon a little bit and got a taste of demon blood again and even the power that went with it, and instead of entirely falling into it and saying "hell, yeah, give me more!" Sam said "no." But of course, there wasn't really a way that Dean would be able to understand how that was a good thing (understandably), and Sam wouldn't have been able to explain it to him.

 

And I agree with your assessment of why Dean wasn't affected by famine. And at the end of the episode, Dean was still looking and still not being fulfilled.

[DittyDotDot]

The interesting thing for me is that despite Sam's giving in to the bloodlust, I think in a way, this actually gave Sam more confidence in himself in the end.

...

 

And then in the end, even though Sam was hopped up on demon blood, he told Famine "no" and refused all of the demon blood (power) Famine offered and went back into detox (despite knowing how awful it was going to be).

 

I agree, I seemed to have neglected to add my thoughts on Sam here. He may have given into the addiction because of Famine's influence, but in some ways he actually was in control of it this time. And, I don't think he would have fallen off that wagon if not for the extreme situation. I just don't think Dean was in a frame of mind to see it that way, he could only see that no matter what they do they seem to get a step closer to the inevitable. 

 

And, that's a good point that Sam probably gained something from the experience. I have a harder time seeing Sam's progression in finding faith and hope throughout S5. I mean, I know he does find it somewhere, it just doesn't feel like it's given enough care and feeding like Dean's loss of hope and faith is. But it makes sense that being able to control the blood addiction would make him feel like there was hope they could control their own destinies.

[catrox14]

I still think they had Dean become a jerk and then lose hope to rebuild Sam's reputation from s4. They needed someone to be hopeful and someone to be hopeless, I guess. I mean Dean was always the darker view but never the hopeless view. He had a "kick it in the ass" attitude but I guess they daren't have both brothers be hopeful.

[rue721]

This is my favorite from S5. For me, the whole season was so grim, and SPN just didn't seem like it was any *fun* anymore. It just kept getting darker and grimmer and gorier and tbh that wasn't what I wanted to see. I also was really missing pre-Hell Dean at this point. He was just seeming so humorless and it made the whole show seem so humorless. But in this episode, Dean actually made some dumb jokes! Yay! The one-off characters were a lot of fun, too. The medical examiner brought the show to life whenever he was in the scene.

 

Famine himself wasn't scary at all and I wish they'd gone in a different direction with him. A bottomless pit that wants to consume and consume and consume but can never be full shouldn't be so...feeble. The only other real weak spot in the episode for me was that the writing for Sam seemed really dry (YMMV). And (this is so minor, but I find it so distracting) it always seems so strange to me when characters show up places with their face covered in blood like they've been contestants in the blood version of a pie-eating contest. It's disgusting. Wouldn't anyone wipe that off his face? That's what you've got sleeves for! :P So when Sam shows up at the diner with a nasty dried-blood goatee, I just couldn't take him seriously. They do that all the time on vampire shows, too, and it always irritates me. Petty, I know.

 

Oh, but while I'm on petty gripes, I didn't like the little homophobic weirdness about Cupid hugging the guys. Not that I would want a bearhug from him, either. Or bearhugs at all. PERSONAL SPACE. But they just seemed so juvenile in how they were reacting in that scene. Though tbh, I already didn't like that scene because Cupid was going on about John and Mary being arranged by God for breeding purposes or whatever. Why the show keeps insisting on stuff like that, Idk. Do they not get how creepy it is to keep insisting that John and Mary were bred like animals in order to produce pups with a ~good pedigree~? I don't really like the idea of God being a farmer practicing husbandry with human beings, why is that a thing that comes up so much on this show?

 

IMO, Dean is hungry for something akin to faith and hope and that can't be filled with a bottle, women, burgers or anything physical. And I think this is the episode where Dean loses what little faith he had in Sam since it's the episode Sam gives in to the demon blood addiction. But more on that when we get to Point Of No Return.

 

And I agree with your assessment of why Dean wasn't affected by famine. And at the end of the episode, Dean was still looking and still not being fulfilled.

 

I agree, it was his soul that was hungering, not his body. That's what that last scene where he asks for help and nobody hears him is about imo. I always see that as basically suicidal, like he's hungering for oblivion. Or maybe, hungering to *not* feel anything, hungering for numbness. Because he's obviously in a lot of pain at this point. I guess numbness would be an improvement.

 

Sam's story should have been moving in this episode imo, because he does get power over his addiction while it's at its height, but something about the writing for him in this one is too dry for me and it never really had any emotional impact imo. YMMV. Also, I think that Jared was kind of phoning it in. This whole season, really. I actually laughed when he told the second demon he was going to chow down on, to "wait your turn." It just was so corny and silly.

 

The one point in Sam's SL that I do like is when Famine is going on and on talking about how Dean is empty inside, and Cas is scarfing down meat off the floor or something, and finally Sam shows up at the diner -- when he starts exorcising all the demons and Dean is watching them whip out of their human hosts, Dean has this look on his face like I DON'T EVEN KNOW, MAN. I DON'T EVEN KNOW. Just kind of bewildered. I liked that moment because the whole thing *was* just sort of bewildering. I mean, obviously it's not a great for Sam to be wondering the streets trying to suck people's blood, but on the other hand, good thing he had all that demon blood in him and was able to do the mass mental exorcism and save his brother after all!

 

I guess Dean was just looking at the Horseman of the Apocalypse sitting in front of him, and the angel on the floor shoveling meat into his mouth, and his demon-blood-infused brother exorcising a bunch of demons with his mind and was like WHAT. THE. HELL. Like, where are all the *humans*? What IS this madness? Well, that's also kind of how I felt watching S5, I guess.

[mertensia]

I think it was more that Cupid was naked. I wouldn't want to be hugged by a naked Cupid either and I am female. Besides for all we know Cupids have permanent erections or something.

This is a good solid episode.

[catrox14]

A

 

I think it was more that Cupid was naked. I wouldn't want to be hugged by a naked Cupid either and I am female. Besides for all we know Cupids have permanent erections or something.

This is a good solid episode.

 

"Is that your arrow or are you just happy to see me?"...
Dean...probably

[AwesomO4000]

This is my favorite from S5. For me, the whole season was so grim, and SPN just didn't seem like it was any *fun* anymore. It just kept getting darker and grimmer and gorier and tbh that wasn't what I wanted to see. I also was really missing pre-Hell Dean at this point. He was just seeming so humorless and it made the whole show seem so humorless.

 

It's always interesting for me how so many of us fans see the same show and get such a different experience from it. While I totally agree with you about this being a favorite from the season, the rest of your post was not my experience with the episode or the season as a whole.

 

For me it was season 4 * that was relentlessly grim, and this season provided many breaths of fresh air even as the story itself was sometimes grim. For me there were many episodes that provided some lighthearted moments even when there was grim stuff, and even provided some Dean being more lighthearted.

 

In addition to the fun of this episode, some other examples for me:

"I Believe the Children..." with Dean enjoying the ham ("That'll do pig") and teasing Sam with the joy buzzer while also getting out some Sam frustration (he multi-tasked) "pretty sure," and his indulging Sam when Sam insisted he demonstrate the "face that stuck that way" face, and then we get the bonus tooth fairy.

Changing Channels: Dean's Dr. Sexy love. The Japanese game show. The Herpexia add. Sam and Dean doing CSI: Miami, Kitt!Sam. (Sam's "should I honk?" and  Dean's "You could say we pulled it out of Sam's ass." Hee!)... So much to love there.

The Real Ghostbusters: A whole episode of win for me.

Swap Meat: Not the best episode, but there was some fun there, too.

 

The rest of the season was more grim, but even then there were some maybe lighter moments, as for example - for me anyway - the ending of "Point of No Return" and then "Hammer of the Gods" (where Dean even got to enjoy a whole buffet of pies! And even tried to make light of some bad situations "Please be tomato soup, Please be tomato soup.") Though less so, there was even a little fun for Dean in "Free to Be..." And I found the moments with Sam and the zombie in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" at least a little bit of humorous.

 

In contrast, season 4 did have "Monster Movie" , "It's A Terrible Life" , "Wishful Thinking" , and "The Monster At the End..." but as much as I enjoy "Wishful Thinking" and love "The Monster..." those episodes overall seemed somewhat grimmer than their season 5 counterparts. We also had an 8 episode stretch from "I Know What You Did..." through "On the Head of a Pin" with no break at all from the grim, imo. And unlike the glimmers of hope that I found in "Point of No Return" and even "Two Minutes to Midnight" there was really none to be found for me at the end of season 4... and I mean literally: none.

 

* (and season 8, but I've beaten that horse enough.)

 

Edited to add: And oops. For season 5 lightheartedness, I forgot to include "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester." Though not my favorite by a long shot, If I remember correctly, there was some fun Dean there to be had.

 

 

I agree with mertensia about the cupid - I would definitely be "keep the overly affectionate, naked guy away from me."

 

Also, I think that Jared was kind of phoning it in. This whole season, really.

 

I also disagree with the above. I enjoyed quite a bit of Jared's work in this season. I thought he really shined especially in some of the lighter episodes of the season like the ones I mentioned above (though maybe not "Swap Meat" but I don't really like that episode), especially "Changing Channels" but some of his fun moments in "The Real Ghostbusters" and "Dead Men..." (that zombie scene) stick with me. I also liked his portrayal / interaction with Jodi in that episode. Jared's Sam at the end of "The Devil You Know" I found a little disturbing - in a really good way. Sam's anger and frustration at finding out yet another incidence in his life where he was manipulated - and how he was trying to force that into a forced calm even as he took his revenge. The beginning of "Sam Interrupted" (which might also qualify as a small lighthearted moment, too).  And then there were the scenes with Jessica/Lucifer in "Free To Be..." and his scenes of Sam interacting with young John and seeing young Mary in "The Song Remains the Same." (One of my favorite's from Jared.) And of course I also thought Jared did an excellent job as Lucifer in "The End" and even for a lot of "Swan Song." That entire schlocky scene where Lucifer sees the green army man would have been so much worse for me if I didn't see from Jared's portrayal exactly when Lucifer changed over into Sam.

 

So pretty much 3 of my favorite Jared episodes: "The End" , "The Song Remains..." and "Changing Channels" are in this season.

 

Even in this episode, I liked Jared's portrayal of Sam slowly succumbing to Famine's influence... and as amusing as you all know I found the "Bouffant of Angst," I really did feel the scene where Sam is admitting to Dean that he can't go with him, and Jared's little head tilt and voice break at "you better lock me down... but good" gets to me every time. I agree with you about the blood face though... I get that we're supposed to see how totally zoned out on blood he is, but really the makeup department should've done something about that (not Jared's fault. He can't see how weird he looks in that scene). I did like how Jared played that scene though - I could see Sam fighting with himself on what to do and trying to get himself out of the blood's influence.

 

But that's the beauty of this show: we all can see different things when watching the same episodes.

Edited March 12, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[mertensia]

Oh Changing Channels would have been terrible if Jared had just phoned it in. His exasperation with the nurse "seriously lady: what the Hell?" always makes me laugh.

[rue721]

I guess my sense of humor is just different, because I don't find stuff like The Curious Case of Dean Winchester, etc, funny. Obviously it's *supposed* to be funny, but it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. Or, that "lighthearted" stuff in Free To Be You And Me, too...I guess I just don't even really get it. Like that whole thing with the brothel? All the jokes like, OMG one of the girls goes by "Chastity," OMG Chastity flipped out at Cas because he brought up her father...they just weren't funny imo. They were more like a sheltered high schooler trying (too hard) to be funny. But S5 was very much a "try hard" season imo. The guys, and especially Dean, were suuuuuuper macho and "hard," etc. Ugh. I just didn't much like the characters in S5.

 

Also, I just never cared about Sam's "blood addiction" because basically nothing about it makes any sense to me. If demon blood actually makes him stronger, he should totally use it. I mean, why not? It wasn't even doing anything bad to him that I could see. Imo Ruby whispering in his ear was what was encouraging him to act like a douchebag. I think it's nasty that he was drinking blood from people's bodies and was getting off on it, and I would think he'd dislike the association with Yellow Eyes (pouring blood into baby!Sam's mouth), but hey. I guess Sam was fine with that stuff. *shrug* And even just as addiction storyline...we never saw him become addicted so I wasn't that into seeing him get off of it. Who cares about *just* the back half of an addiction SL? Also, I was still struggling to understand or care why there was such a kerfuffle about him getting off of it *completely,* especially since he still uses demon blood from time to time. In Free to Be You and Me, I was afraid that the hunters would find out that Sam triggered the Apocalypse, because DAMN, but who cares about the demon blood? Is that a "thing" in their world, with its own terrible connotations or something? Because a demon telling a bunch of hunters that Sam can do mass mental exorcisms and stuff would actually make Sam look badass, I would think, and wouldn't get them especially pissed off at him.

 

Anyway, I actually thought it was freakier that he was sleeping with a demon than that he was drinking the blood. Because I get why you'd want to have mind-exorcism powers and all that. But sleeping with Ruby was just for fun. *shudder* "Hey [sam], I heard you liked the wild ones."

 

I agree with mertensia about the cupid - I would definitely be "keep the overly affectionate, naked guy away from me."

 

As I said in my above comment, I wouldn't want to be getting bear hugs from Cupid, either, but I thought it was irritating how they played that scene. Came off as homophobic to me how it was supposed to be funny how they were freaked about the hugging but Cupid did it anyway. It felt to me like they were about one second away from saying "no homo." YMMV.

[AwesomO4000]

I guess my sense of humor is just different, because I don't find stuff like The Curious Case of Dean Winchester, etc, funny. Obviously it's *supposed* to be funny, but it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. Or, that "lighthearted" stuff in Free To Be You And Me, too...I guess I just don't even really get it.

 

I don't disagree. I even said above that I didn't like those particular episodes myself, or in the case of "Free to Be..." I preferred the Sam part of the story, but for me that doesn't take away from the fact that there were people who did like them - I seem to remember "The Curious Case..." doing well in our survival game despite me downvoting it often - and that as you said, the episodes were supposed to be light-hearted. I also included a bunch of other episodes that had some lighter parts or were mostly lighter - a few of which I loved. For me, even if I didn't think the humor necessarily hit - such as "Curious Case...", "Swap Meat" , "Free To Be..." , and even a bit in this episode, that doesn't take away from the fact that they weren't entirely "grim" either. They were an attempt to be "light." And for me, in contrast to most of season 4, which in my opinion was making little to no attempt to not be grim, that season 5 often came off as lighter than that and that there were much more - for me - incidences of humorous Dean as I mentioned above.

 

Also, I just never cared about Sam's "blood addiction" because basically nothing about it makes any sense to me. If demon blood actually makes him stronger, he should totally use it. I mean, why not? It wasn't even doing anything bad to him that I could see. Imo Ruby whispering in his ear was what was encouraging him to act like a douchebag.

 

That was the conflict. The blood drinking did do some good, and that was exactly Sam's argument to himself and why it was a slippery slope. But I disagree about the bad effects. Ruby was no longer around at this point, but it was still being shown how the blood was affecting Sam's judgement and behavior, which was brought to a conclusion in "Swan Song" when

Sam drinking the gallons of blood almost immediately contributed to him making a reckless decision,

in my opinion. Sam's whole attitude abruptly changed after drinking it then and in this episode. It also lead to Sam becoming more violent and unreasonable and affected his judgement as shown at the end of season 4. And the fact that Sam's killing Lilith with the powers made his eyes go black as Chuck noted couldn't have been a good thing, in my opinion. And if Sam knows it leads him to that, then I appreciated  his decision in "Free To Be..." to step back and in this episode to try to keep himself from the temptation and then to make sure he got himself detoxed again.

 

Also none of that for me affects Jared's portrayal of Sam this season or in this episode. (As a side note, I think Jared also generally does screaming in pain very well. For example, when he's playing Sam detoxing and crying out to Dean, Cas, and anyone who will listen in this episode, for me, I feel it even without being able to actually see Sam - but miles will vary.)  I thought that the fact that for me, Jared was able to make such an abstract conflict mostly ring true means that in my opinion, I didn't think that he was "phoning it in." For me Sam's emotional arc - his wanting to avoid letting Dean down again, his wanting to fix the mess he made, and his trying to not be the tainted thing his destiny tried to make him - rang truer to me than the stuff that happened in season 4, and part of that was due to how Jared played it. And I gave examples above of some of those moments and some of my favorite Jared episodes which were in this season. I think one of them - "The Song Remains the Same" - was one where you appreciated what Jared did as well.

 

In Free to Be You and Me, I was afraid that the hunters would find out that Sam triggered the Apocalypse, because DAMN, but who cares about the demon blood? Is that a "thing" in their world, with its own terrible connotations or something? Because a demon telling a bunch of hunters that Sam can do mass mental exorcisms and stuff would actually make Sam look badass, I would think, and wouldn't get them especially pissed off at him.

 

In season 2, Dean was very afraid about other hunters found out even about Sam's visions because he thought that would put him in danger. Gordon went after Sam and called him a freak because of his psychic powers, and he convinced other to do the same. At the moment the hunters wanted Sam to drink the blood and help them kill the demons, but considering they also knew about the apocalypse, I'm pretty sure they were most likely going to kill him after that - and obviously put out an APB since in "Dark Side..."

some hunters succeeded in hunting Sam down and killing him.

So, in my opinion, Sam was not wrong in both being wary of working with other hunters who didn't understand him and in trying to avoid using his powers and letting his addiction get to him as he was trying to do here.

[DittyDotDot]

Aww, who would say no to being Dean's Valentine? ;)

I know it's wrong, but the first two couples' deaths in this episode make me very happy. Just how sweet and shy that first couple is and how polite they are when they start biting each other and such. It's so messed up, but so very right too. And then when the second couple are standing there talking about how there's always something that will keep them apart, "and now jail"...yeah, I do a hearty chuckle at that. 

[GirlyGeek]

This episode has some good stuff and is always entertaining for me.  The gore is great.  I liked the horseman and the spin put on Famine's effects.

I still don't quite get what they're trying to say about Dean here because its coming off, to me, like they're saying he's soulless.  I laugh every time Cas goes into the restaurant and like 3 seconds pass and Dean goes "this is taking too long".   Ha ha.  He's not really a sit around and let someone else save the day kind of guy.

I'm especially glad to see Sam overcome his issues in this episode.  Its a HUGE step for him to admit he needs help, to ask Dean to lock him up and to ask Dean to take care of the Horseman alone.  Huge to not keep his struggle a secret and to try and push through.  SO I commend him for that.  And then, when he inevitably gives in to the demon snacks sent to him, he stands up to Famine and exorcises them instead of feeding on them.  He says "No" and that's big growth for him.

Its heartbreaking to watch Dean at the end, listening to Sam screaming and you can just see Dean shattering inside.  He's feeling the inevitability of it all and watching everything fall down around him.  Sam's addiction, Bobby losing hope and in a wheelchair, the looming threat of the devil and the inevitability of one or both of the brothers saying "yes" to their destiny.  Losing Jo and Ellen took a huge toll on him and its all just snowballing and you can see it in his every movement at the end of this episode.

[DittyDotDot]

15 minutes ago, GirlyGeek said:

Its heartbreaking to watch Dean at the end, listening to Sam screaming and you can just see Dean shattering inside.  He's feeling the inevitability of it all and watching everything fall down around him.

You just made me think of something I've never thought of before--I love it when that happens, BTW--the show used to do these little almost repeats of scenes to show us even though things stay the same, they also change. The last time Sam was locked in the panic room detoxing, Dean went outside, prayed and sold himself to the angels in the end. This time he's asking for help. Interesting.

Edited September 23, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Hanahope]

I don't blame Sam for succumbing to Famine's influence.  He did try to resist and at least was able to maintain enough control to kill famine through the demons. I can see why Dean was worried, since its always possible for Sam to do it again, but Sam has gotten better with control at least.  Heck even Castile got caught under famines influence.  

[AwesomO4000]

12 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I can see why Dean was worried, since its always possible for Sam to do it again, but Sam has gotten better with control at least.

I thought that it was also good to see Sam admit to Dean that there was a problem rather than trying to hide it. He's gotten better in season 5 at doing that.

[gonzosgirrl]

This is one of the most under-rated episodes of the series, IMO. I love pretty much everything about it, from the gruesome opening scenes, to Cupid, to MeatLover!Cas. Famine was the creepiest, most menacing of the Horsemen and his words to both Sam & Dean were chilling. I'm not always the biggest fan of JPs acting, but he was on point in this episode. For sheer scary!Sam, it has what is probably my most favourite moment of his of the whole series: the scene where he's drinking Stunt Demon #1 and flings Stunt Demon #2 into the wall. "Wait your turn." Gets me every time.

I think Famine's words to Dean were for him, only a horrible confirmation of what he already believed about himself, and it was painful to watch him take them in, but still so very Dean in pretty much telling the horseman to go fuck himself. And Jensen's reactions as Dean watches Sammy exorcise all those demons at once (which was total badass) were spot on. Of course his silent breakdown in Bobby's yard at the end is stellar.

[AwesomO4000]

I agree with almost all of that, @gonzosgirrl. I love this episode too. It's in my top 25 for sure, maybe top 20.

(The only thing I disagree with is the part about not being a fan of Jared's acting. I tend to enjoy his work in the show.)

10 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

For sheer scary!Sam, it has what is probably my most favourite moment of his of the whole series: the scene where he's drinking Stunt Demon #1 and flings Stunt Demon #2 into the wall. "Wait your turn." Gets me every time.

Loved it, too. That and his "My daddy shot your daddy in the heaaaad." from "Born Under a Bad Sign." Oh, and his, for me, 

Spoiler

creepy-as-all-get-out bloody smile from "Caged Heat."

[bettername2come]

"I respect the crap outta you right now." Well, at least the people in the first five minutes got to have fun as they died. "Unleash the Kraken." Now there's a euphemism for you. "A cupid has gone rogue and we have to stop him before he kills again." I love this show. I love the ridiculous lines they can get away with. Sam tried to run from cupid. I probably shouldn't laugh at Dean's "Perfect? They're dead!" But I did. Cas giving the whole Famine explanation while chowing down on sliders is amusing. Sam and Dean talking at the same time is always welcome. Nothing good ever happens at Biggerson's! I gasped out loud when the guy stuck his hands in the deep fryer. Sam looks so ashamed when Dean says "demon blood." "So, you're saying you're well-adjusted?" "God, no. I'm just well-fed." Sam with a bloody mouth will always be disturbing, but I also enjoy Sam throwing demons around with his mind, so I'm torn. Oh, God the fry cook's in the oil, the fry cook's in the oil! Sam detoxing is always heartbreaking. Same for Dean praying.

[catrox14]

All those lines you quoted come from the pen of Ben Edlund. I love his quirky writing. It's just so out there and wonderful. I wish he would come back.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

That opening with the couple was really hot - until it wasn't, and I was really glad I'd already had dinner when they started chowing down on each other.  

The green cooler was on the counter!  I didn't notice that first time.  That's really why Dean wasn't in a rush to go out - he had Greenie.  ;)  Sam looked a little like Dean spoiled his plans to watch Casa Erotica by not going out.  :)

"Something's always going to keep us apart...Sleep?"  "Now Prison, maybe?"  I hope I was supposed to laugh at those lines, because I did.  

I really liked the coroner.  He was cool.  I'm upset he died.  Those were not human hearts, were they?  They looked way too big.  I like when Cas shows up still on the phone with Dean.  I miss those kinds of funny moments with him.

I thought the bit with the Cupid was funny and cute.  It was meant to be lighthearted fun and that's how I took it.   "Is this a fight?  Are we in a fight?"  Lol.  Oh, Dean.  "This is their handshake."  "I don't like it."  No one likes it."  I like that scene way more than I should.   The Cupid was just sweetly, adorably sad when he found out his love matches had gone bad.  Has the angel mind reading (each other) trick been used before or since?  Seems like it would have come in handy with/for Anna, especially when Cas turned her in.  Maybe they need permission to read each other's minds.  Although, I really do hate the John and Mary were prearranged by Heaven because Sam and Dean needed to be born bit.  

Something that this show used to be really good at - and then lost for awhile (I think it may be making a come-back in latter seasons, S11 and S12, but I haven't done a proper rewatch to confirm) - was starting off all lighthearted and funny and then turning serious and heartbreaking by the end.  

I get that Sam could smell the demon the first time he walked by him and that's how he knew it was a demon - and the second time he recognized him because of the meatsuit (unless Sam got a bionic nose we don't know about because he looked to be too far away to smell him to me), but I don't understand what was with the weird camera focus on Sam's ear in that second demon scene coming out of the medical clinic.  Could Sam hear his heartbeat?  Do demons have heartbeats?  Does Sam have a bionic ear to go with his bionic nose?

I thought Famine as the wheelchair ridden entity was a pretty interesting iteration.  What I don't really understand was why Famine was eating souls.  The horsemen weren't demons. Were they angels?   

Spoiler

Like the Gregori who fed off human souls?

 I wonder what happened to the souls who were eaten by Famine.   Did they get to go to Heaven or Hell or just cease to exist?

Spoiler

Or was it like Amara where they were 'joined' with him for eternity?  Ew.  Or did they end up in the Empty?  

Kudos to Sam for being self-aware enough to realize he couldn't go with Dean and that he needed to be locked down.  I liked how JP was clenching the towel in the background in that scene when Dean told Cas to beam him out of there - subtle but very effective.  

Cas gobbling raw meat was disturbing.  In the past when Sam mind-exorcised demons, they immediately sank into the ground with a burning coal afterglow.  This time, they just conveniently hang around on the surface waiting for Famine to suck them down.  That was sure nice of the demons so that Sam could then use them to kill Famine.  

On 3/11/2015 at 3:50 AM, rue721 said:

This is my favorite from S5. For me, the whole season was so grim, and SPN just didn't seem like it was any *fun* anymore. It just kept getting darker and grimmer and gorier and tbh that wasn't what I wanted to see. I also was really missing pre-Hell Dean at this point. He was just seeming so humorless and it made the whole show seem so humorless. But in this episode, Dean actually made some dumb jokes! Yay! The one-off characters were a lot of fun, too. The medical examiner brought the show to life whenever he was in the scene.

I agree - although I think it started in S4 and continued into this season.    

On 7/6/2017 at 9:53 PM, bettername2come said:

Oh, God the fry cook's in the oil, the fry cook's in the oil! 

I'll admit - I flinched at that.  

On 10/14/2014 at 9:47 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I thought it was a stroke of genius that Dean wouldn't be affected by Famine because I think what Dean is hungry for Famine can't supply. I don't believe Dean is any more empty or soulless than I believed War when he said Sam wanted to be stronger than everyone. IMO, Dean is hungry for something akin to faith and hope and that can't be filled with a bottle, women, burgers or anything physical.

Brilliant description of Dean's 'hunger.'  

[Iju]

we were eating pizza just as sam and dean were going through the "parts" and it was so gross and disturbing we skipped the entire episode, lmao.

bad timing i guess.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Iju

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Iju said:

we were eating pizza just as sam and dean were going through the "parts" and it was so gross and disturbing we skipped the entire episode, lmao.

bad timing i guess.

But you got past the couple eating each other's faces off?

[gonzosgirrl]

48 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But you got past the couple eating each other's faces off?

Not to mention missing one of the best episodes of the series, and that the resolution of the season hinges on its outcome.

[Iju]

50 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But you got past the couple eating each other's faces off?

actually no, we skipped that as well. and that was before the pizza arrived lol.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Iju

[catrox14]

44 minutes ago, Iju said:

actually no, we skipped that as well. and that was before the pizza arrived lol.

My unasked for advice. Watch the episode. It's incredibly important to the entire season.  Seriously. Suck it up and watch it LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My unasked for advice. Watch the episode. It's incredibly important to the entire season.  Seriously. Suck it up and watch it LOL

And the bonus of seeing Cas's... desire, lol. And the naked Cupid. And one of the scariest/creepiest villains. And probably my favourite scenes from Jared in the whole series. Skipping this one over a couple gross scenes (and seriously, in this show? LOLOL!) is doing a disservice to yourself.

[Iju]

On 08/04/2018 at 9:50 PM, catrox14 said:

My unasked for advice. Watch the episode. It's incredibly important to the entire season.  Seriously. Suck it up and watch it LOL

don't worry, i'm not that sensitive over it. i plan to watch it by myself later on tonight ;)

[Iju]

okay so i was so tired last night, i had a really bad headache and went to bed two whole hours earlier than usual but i'm watching with my mother now. i wanted to look at it without her today but she told me not to. will report back soon.

[Iju]

guess what....we ended up watching this during dinner...eating pizza, lol. but no, i stood my ground on this. they tried to delay this as much as they could today and they are PAYING for it.

okay, i was going to keep it to myself last episode, but jared's performance has jumped up these past episodes! i don't know what got into him, he's very noticeable now.

so dean just didn't feel like sexing women and eating? that didn't happen to be a counter effect of famine? huh.

cass is so cute, omg. i absolutely adore him. hungry/starved cass is so funny.

the whole room was screaming when sam lit into the demon, my mother especially. she loves sam so. "Wait your turn." hoooly smokes, that made a shiver go down my spine.

THE MAN EATING THE FRIES IN THE OIL AND THE ONE DEAD INSIDE OF IT. OMG.

ANOTHER OMG. SAM TOOK DOWN LIKE WHAT 7 DEMONS AND THEN DESTROYED POSSIBLY HUNDREDS MORE????? and that was just from two demons. woah. also dean's face the whole time. don't look at me like that, dean. omg. my heart.

the whole run erupted again when dean left bobby's house and broke down, by my mother was so taken by dean crying she blocked her eyes. she was going to cry, honestly. she just couldn't take it.

honestly i liked this episode, a lot. it's definitely worth a rewatch.

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, Iju said:

so dean just didn't feel like sexing women and eating? that didn't happen to be a counter effect of famine? huh.

It was like Dean said. He never held himself from enjoying food, alcohol, and sex when he wanted it so he wasn't driven to those things like Cas and Sam. He didn't deny himself those things.

[Iju]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

It was like Dean said. He never held himself from enjoying food, alcohol, and sex when he wanted it so he wasn't driven to those things like Cas and Sam. He didn't deny himself those things.

yeah, i guess it was just a red herring then.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Iju said:

yeah, i guess it was just a red herring then.

Huh? Dean thought it was because he satisfied his needs that he wasn't compelled by them. Famine, however, told him it was because he was already dead inside, hollowed out by his own life.
 

Quote

 

Famine: Doesn't take much -- hardly a push. Oh, America -- all-you-can-eat, all the time. Consume, consume. A swarm of locusts in stretch pants. And yet, you're all still starving because hunger doesn't just come from the body, it also comes from the soul.
Dean: It's funny, it doesn't seem to be coming from mine.
Famine: Yes. I noticed that. Have you wondered why that is? How you could even walk in my presence?
Dean: Well, I like to think it's because of my strength of character.
Famine: I disagree. Yes. I see. That's one deep, dark nothing you got there, Dean. Can't fill it, can you? Not with food or drink. Not even with sex.
Dean: Oh, you're so full of crap.

Famine: Oh, you can smirk and joke and lie to your brother, lie to yourself, but not to me! I can see inside you, Dean. I can see how broken you are, how defeated. You can't win, and you know it. But you just keep fighting. Just... keep going through the motions. You're not hungry, Dean, because inside, you're already... dead.

 

That's hardly a red herring - it's a major character beat for Dean. Being 'dead inside' was Famine's hyperbole, but the whole gist of it was accurate to Dean's state of mind. I'd say you could draw a straight line from there to the end of 99 Problems.

[Iju]

On 12/04/2018 at 3:10 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Huh? Dean thought it was because he satisfied his needs that he wasn't compelled by them. Famine, however, told him it was because he was already dead inside, hollowed out by his own life.
 

That's hardly a red herring - it's a major character beat for Dean. Being 'dead inside' was Famine's hyperbole, but the whole gist of it was accurate to Dean's state of mind. I'd say you could draw a straight line from there to the end of 99 Problems.

that's the thing. red herrings aren't red herrings anymore when they are revealed. as far as the audience something strange was happening to dean and thought it was connected to famine somehow. that's what i meant.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Iju said:

that's the thing. red herrings aren't red herrings anymore when they are revealed. as far as the audience something strange was happening to dean and thought it was connected to famine somehow. that's what i meant.

There was no red herring here because the audience wasn't being intentionally mislead with Dean's lack of cravings and it was addressed twice.

[Iju]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There was no red herring here because the audience wasn't being intentionally mislead with Dean's lack of cravings and it was addressed twice.

i'm talking like at the very beginning. like cupid beginning, when even sam asked "okay what's going on with you", that's all. 

[AwesomO4000]

I agree with @gonzosgirrl and @catrox14 on this one. A "red herring" for me is a plot point that's a deliberate mislead and that doesn't really go anywhere even though the story seems to make it look important. Sam going "what's wrong with you?" does actually get answered, first through what Dean thought was up with himself, and then through Famine's exaggeration that still held some truth - a potential truth that hit Dean hard and that answer influenced what happened with Dean in the next few episodes. So the reveal of what Famine said was instrumental to the plot due to Dean's reaction to it.

For me, an example of a red herring would be season 4's angel killing plot. The story made a big deal out of it, but in the end, when we found out what it was - Uriel killing his own people for not following his plan - it wasn't what it had been portrayed to be (demons trying to make sure the seals broke) and it was actually a misdirect. The angel killings really had no effect on the main storyline at all, because Uriel was killed and he wasn't the one behind the big plot to begin with. The dead angels weren't connected to the real antagonist behind everything: Zachariah and Michael. If anything, Dean, Sam, and Castiel wasting time on trying to solve that mystery just took time away from the real threat (again Zachariah and Michael). So the angel killing plot was a red herring - a deliberate mislead from the actual plot.

Edited April 15, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[Iju]

17 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree with @gonzosgirrl and @catrox14 on this one. A "red herring" for me is a plot point that's a deliberate mislead and that doesn't really go anywhere even though the story seems to make it look important. Sam going "what's wrong with you?" does actually get answered, first through what Dean thought was up with himself, and then through Famine's exaggeration that still held some truth - a potential truth that hit Dean hard and that answer influenced what happened with Dean in the next few episodes. So the reveal of what Famine said was instrumental to the plot due to Dean's reaction to it.

For me, an example of a red herring would be season 4's angel killing plot. The story made a big deal out of it, but in the end, when we found out what it was - Uriel killing his own people for not following his plan - it wasn't what it had been portrayed to be (demons trying to make sure the seals broke) and it was actually a misdirect. The angel killings really had no effect on the main storyline at all, because Uriel was killed and he wasn't the one behind the big plot to begin with. The dead angels weren't connected to the real antagonist behind everything: Zachariah and Michael. If anything, Dean, Sam, and Castiel wasting time on trying to solve that mystery just took time away from the real threat (again Zachariah and Michael). So the angel killing plot was a red herring - a deliberate mislead from the actual plot.

well i mean what else would be it called then, in your preferred opinion? because it was placed in the episode, however shortly it was concluded, for a reason. a red herring is the same as a distraction right? it seemed distracting to me.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, Iju said:

well i mean what else would be it called then, in your preferred opinion? because it was placed in the episode, however shortly it was concluded, for a reason. a red herring is the same as a distraction right? it seemed distracting to me.

I guess I'm not sure what you were meaning as the distraction? (and I apologize for not understanding - I'm sure that I am missing something.)

In my definition of a red herring it is a distraction, but a misleading one. It is more the mislead that makes it a red herring for me. Sam saying something might be emotionally off with Dean for me wasn't a red herring only because something was emotionally wrong with Dean. Dean just wasn't seeing it or letting himself acknowledge it until Famine pointed it out - exaggeratedly and maybe not entirely right, but enough so that Dean was a bit floored by the analysis. I guess with Dean's situation, maybe it might be called a twist or an unexpected outcome? Even though there was something wrong with Dean, we we're expecting what it was that was wrong with Dean.

I guess - and this is just my opinion - it could have potentially been a red herring if in the end there hadn't been anything emotionally wrong with Dean and there was no effect from Dean appearing to have had something wrong with him. Then Sam wondering if something was wrong with Dean could have been a red herring.

[catrox14]

11 hours ago, Iju said:

well i mean what else would be it called then, in your preferred opinion? because it was placed in the episode, however shortly it was concluded, for a reason. a red herring is the same as a distraction right? it seemed distracting to me.

A red herring in literature or film or TV is defined as something that is intentionally misleading or to distract from the relevant point.

The relevant point to Dean's SL was him not being affected by Famine. Sam's question was the set up for the SL and that question was answered in two ways, so it can't be a red herring.

[Iju]

On 16/04/2018 at 1:54 AM, AwesomO4000 said:

I guess I'm not sure what you were meaning as the distraction? (and I apologize for not understanding - I'm sure that I am missing something.)

In my definition of a red herring it is a distraction, but a misleading one. It is more the mislead that makes it a red herring for me. Sam saying something might be emotionally off with Dean for me wasn't a red herring only because something was emotionally wrong with Dean. Dean just wasn't seeing it or letting himself acknowledge it until Famine pointed it out - exaggeratedly and maybe not entirely right, but enough so that Dean was a bit floored by the analysis. I guess with Dean's situation, maybe it might be called a twist or an unexpected outcome? Even though there was something wrong with Dean, we we're expecting what it was that was wrong with Dean.

I guess - and this is just my opinion - it could have potentially been a red herring if in the end there hadn't been anything emotionally wrong with Dean and there was no effect from Dean appearing to have had something wrong with him. Then Sam wondering if something was wrong with Dean could have been a red herring.

okay, mislead sounds better than red herring in my opinion as well :)

On 16/04/2018 at 10:10 AM, catrox14 said:

A red herring in literature or film or TV is defined as something that is intentionally misleading or to distract from the relevant point.

The relevant point to Dean's SL was him not being affected by Famine. Sam's question was the set up for the SL and that question was answered in two ways, so it can't be a red herring.

thank you for clarifying, awesom chose the right word for me :)

[The Companion]

This is a really spoilery thread so I ended up skipping a lot. For reasons that will probably become clear later to me, this seems to have generated a lot of full season discussion.

I like the take on famine and that first scene was so squicky. However, I don't buy the assertion that Deam was exempt for the reason cited. I am not satisfied that he didn't have anything he hungered for either. Sadly, I worry he was immune for plot reasons so he could be horrified by Sam. Maybe he has some immunity by virtue of his status as a vessel for archangel and I will apologize to the writers, or maybe his abstinence in this episode will be explained. But based on his reaction at the end, I have a bad feeling he will go backwards on the progress they have made. Which is disappointing because Sam turned to him for help, controlled his urges at the end and agreed to detox. That is some serious progress. Particularly when the hunger was strong enough to have Cass eating raw meat in the floor and to have a guy shove himself into a fryer to eat fries. 

I loved the coroner. I was bummed he died. 

[gonzosgirrl]

IMO, Dean was horrified for Sam, not by him. He knew it wasn't his fault this time and I don't think he made Sam feel otherwise- not any more than he already felt himself. Dean begging for help at the end is one of the most powerful scenes of the series. That was not blaming Sam. 

PS I think pound for pound, Famine is the creepiest villain of the series. 

[gonzosgirrl]

24 minutes ago, The Companion said:

However, I don't buy the assertion that Deam was exempt for the reason cited. I am not satisfied that he didn't have anything he hungered for either

I told myself I wasn't getting pulled into these threads any more, but this... 

Of course Dean is going to say his hedonism makes him exempt.  That's Dean. But I find it easy to believe that he's hollowed out enough from Hell, and from all that happened with Sam, and the losses, and the loomimg apocalypse,  that there's nothing left inside right now, not even a true desire. It's a heartbreaking episode on all kinds of levels. 

[DeeDee79]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

IMO, Dean was horrified for Sam, not by him. He knew it wasn't his fault this time and I don't think he made Sam feel otherwise- not any more than he already felt himself. Dean begging for help at the end is one of the most powerful scenes of the series. That was not blaming Sam. 

PS I think pound for pound, Famine is the creepiest villain of the series. 

Of course it was and I completely agree! Personally I thought that it was obvious that Dean was horrified and dismayed because he knew the effect that Famine would have on Sam and he was saddened on what the coming Apocalypse was doing to them. He was equally horrified by Cas's hunger IMO. His plea for help was for all of them, not just for Dean. 

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I told myself I wasn't getting pulled into these threads any more, but this... 

Of course Dean is going to say his hedonism makes him exempt.  That's Dean. But I find it easy to believe that he's hollowed out enough from Hell, and from all that happened with Sam, and the losses, and the loomimg apocalypse,  that there's nothing left inside right now, not even a true desire. It's a heartbreaking episode on all kinds of levels. 

I agree with this also. It was obvious ( to a Dean fan anyway ) that he was pretty indifferent to the indulgences that he once held dear and was now mostly indifferent. The bigger picture seemed to ruin the simple pleasures that he once turned to and it was pretty sad IMO.

[The Companion]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I told myself I wasn't getting pulled into these threads any more, but this... 

Of course Dean is going to say his hedonism makes him exempt.  That's Dean. But I find it easy to believe that he's hollowed out enough from Hell, and from all that happened with Sam, and the losses, and the loomimg apocalypse,  that there's nothing left inside right now, not even a true desire. It's a heartbreaking episode on all kinds of levels. 

Heh. Sorry for pulling you in again. I don't think he made Sam feel otherwise, but I worry that this will drive a wedge between them again. I hope I am wrong. I didn't mean to imply blame actually. I think I failed to flesh out the concern, which is that I worry that Dean will lose some of the trust that has been built back up. And I don't necessarily disagree with it if he does. Many if not most addicts relapse more than once.

It was heartbreaking, particularly that last scene. I guess it was weird to me that even his normal desires left him. If famine heightens something you hunger for, that doesn't mean your other hungers disappear. Dean changed in this episode too.

16 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Of course it was and I completely agree! Personally I thought that it was obvious that Dean was horrified and dismayed because he knew the effect that Famine would have on Sam and he was saddened on what the coming Apocalypse was doing to them. He was equally horrified by Cas's hunger IMO. His plea for help was for all of them, not just for Dean. 

I agree with this also. It was obvious ( to a Dean fan anyway ) that he was pretty indifferent to the indulgences that he once held dear and was now mostly indifferent. The bigger picture seemed to ruin the simple pleasures that he once turned to and it was pretty sad IMO.

Maybe I have missed that shift and it was more pronounced here. But as I think about it more, he wasn't immune. He actually didn't eat food he ordered which I don't think we saw previously.