S48.E12: Icarus Time

[blackwing]

It’s laughable that Shauhin said he was playing the best game.  How?  Part of me wanted him to make it to the end so he could get zero votes.  
 

I don’t understand what happened… I guess I thought Kyle’s plan was to get Joe and Eva to distrust Shauhin so they would vote for him.  Then clue Mitch in at the last minute and K/K and Mitch vote out Eva.  If Eva plays an idol then Shauhin still goes home.  
 

They clearly told Mitch of the plan.  He is a follower and votes for whoever someone tells him to.  
 

I guess they don’t know that Eva has an idol.  However, both Joe and Shauhin at least know she woke up in the middle of the night.  Has Shauhin not told anyone?  I think he thought he was Joe’s right hand and they were tight and thus protected Eva?  Stupid.  
 

Next round is the last time Eva can use her idol.  One of either Joe or Eva will for sure win immunity, and she will play the idol on whoever doesn’t win.  They are guaranteed to make final four.  
 

Again, why no puzzles?  Last season it was nonstop puzzles in individual immunity.  

[violet and green]

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I guess they don’t know that Eva has an idol.  However, both Joe and Shauhin at least know she woke up in the middle of the night.  Has Shauhin not told anyone?  I think he thought he was Joe’s right hand and they were tight and thus protected Eva?  Stupid.  

Everyone knows she has an idol! She tells them publically about it all the time. Eva's idol is the one Star gave her. The advantage she got from the middle of the night thing has expired. But she told them all about that too!

[iMonrey]

21 hours ago, AntFTW said:

If both Kyle and Kamilla make it to Final 3, she has to reveal that Kyle is really a lawyer. That'll be her mic drop moment. 😂

I don't see how. It will still be a credit to Kyle, not to Kamilla. The fact that she didn't tell anyone Kyle was a lawyer isn't exactly a game-winning move. In fact I'm not even sure she knows he's really a lawyer.

Or, if you mean the jury won't want to give the money to a lawyer, it doesn't mean they'll give it to Kamilla. They'll just give it to whoever is the third person.

I get so tired of people who go on reality shows and pretend their profession is so impressive they have to lie about it because others will see them as a threat. What egos. Another reason I don't really like Kyle.

[blackwing]

7 hours ago, violet and green said:

Everyone knows she has an idol! She tells them publically about it all the time. Eva's idol is the one Star gave her. The advantage she got from the middle of the night thing has expired. But she told them all about that too!

Ah that’s right, I mixed it up with the now expired Safety without Power.  No idea why the others are fine with letting Eva keep an idol, makes no sense to not try and flush it or blindside her. 

Edited May 17 by blackwing

[violet and green]

18 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Ah that’s right, I mixed it up with the now expired Safety without Power.  No idea why the others are fine with letting Eva keep an idol, makes no sense to try and flush it or blindside her. 

I know. She and Joe are planning to waltz into final four and have effectively told everyone that for weeks. It is bizarre the lack of gameplay from the others, and I include Kyle and Kamilla here, who could have got either of them/both of them out prior to now.

[tinkerbell]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

get so tired of people who go on reality shows and pretend their profession is so impressive they have to lie about it because others will see them as a threat. What egos. Another reason I don't really like Kyle.

Yes it's right up there with people who think that because of their appearance (young/old/blonde/cute/small) others will underestimate them. 

[Carey]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Or, if you mean the jury won't want to give the money to a lawyer, it doesn't mean they'll give it to Kamilla. They'll just give it to whoever is the third person.

While it might end up being a moot point throughout, I can't see anyone going all in for Mitch.  Those two both in the F3 plus anyone other than Mitch is curtains for them.  Lawyer or not

[astrohip]

20 hours ago, Blip said:

Why did Probst call out Eva for cheating in the reward challenge, instead of pretending not to notice?  He must have figured she would slide right off anyway if she straightened her legs, or that she would get to eat at the reward meal, since winner of reward always brings her along.

She didn't cheat, she simply broke one of the rules. Cheating implies acting dishonestly to gain an advantage. It was clear from her reaction that she didn't realize using her legs like that was not allowed.

And why would he pretend not to notice? You're implying he favors one player over another. Jeff may love certain stories, and isn't above playing up anything he can for eyeballs, but he considers the integrity of Survivor to be Job One.

[meep.meep]

On 5/15/2025 at 12:43 PM, Nashville said:

Stock footage; they do have about a quarter century’s worth to pull from, after all….

Seriously this.  Nobody thinks that whale swims by every day do they?  Or a snake just happens to climb up a branch when someone is thinking of doing something shady?

[choclatechip45]

Boring episode can't wait for this season to be over. I can finally see a scenario Kyle could win since Joe is gullible. 

[iMonrey]

8 hours ago, violet and green said:

I know. She and Joe are planning to waltz into final four and have effectively told everyone that for weeks. It is bizarre the lack of gameplay from the others, and I include Kyle and Kamilla here, who could have got either of them/both of them out prior to now.

I think it speaks to the weakness of Kyle and Shauhin's gameplay, as well as their over-inflated egos. Neither wanted to go against the Core Four and both thought they could actually convince the jury they played a better game than Joe. And while it may end up being irrelevant, neither seemed to consider the possibility that Eva might be an attractive option for the jury if she turns on the waterworks. The editors sure as hell seem to think she's got a great story, even if they don't.

[30 Helens]

18 hours ago, blackwing said:

It’s laughable that Shauhin said he was playing the best game.  How?  Part of me wanted him to make it to the end so he could get zero votes.  

I’m sure he was playing the best game… as he defines it. What he failed to realize is, his definition doesn’t matter. Jury opinions are the only opinions that count. He basically came out and said “everyone else thinks Joe is playing the best game, but they’re wrong”, which is laughable in so many ways.

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get so tired of people who go on reality shows and pretend their profession is so impressive they have to lie about it because others will see them as a threat. What egos. Another reason I don't really like Kyle.

Eh, in this case I think it was because he was afraid people would be prejudiced against him because they hate lawyers. A lawyer in a previous season lied about his profession for that same reason. A tow truck driver or debt collector might do the same…

People have also lied because they were afraid others would see them as already wealthy, and therefore undeserving of the big prize. Like that annoying woman from a couple seasons back who owned a company, or the former pro football player. (I really can’t remember names.) I get all of this. Players want to be judged on their social and physical games, not preconceived notions about their lives outside of the game. I don’t think it has anything to do with ego.

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Seriously this.  Nobody thinks that whale swims by every day do they?  Or a snake just happens to climb up a branch when someone is thinking of doing something shady?

If they had as many snakes slithering around as the editors imply we would see a lot more jumping and squealing than we do.  Even people who aren't particularly afraid of snakes have a startle reflex when they suddenly see one on their foot.

If the show didn't take itself so seriously, they could probably give us an hilarious montage of cast members doing just that.

[Cotypubby]

21 hours ago, blackwing said:

Ah that’s right, I mixed it up with the now expired Safety without Power.  No idea why the others are fine with letting Eva keep an idol, makes no sense to not try and flush it or blindside her. 

I really think they are all afraid of voting for the autistic person with the big sob story, like it will somehow cause them to be crucified on social media for being big meanies or something.

[JudyObscure]

On 5/15/2025 at 9:36 AM, tinkerbell said:

I'm waiting for a letter from home that says, "when you get home be sure to congratulate your sister who once again got straight A's"

OR

"You missed mother's day. We all chipped in for a gift. Your share is $88. Please Venmo me."

Mine would say, "Are you sure you got the dates right on that  show you're on?  We watched "Wheel." every night last week and didn't see you. 

 

 

Edited May 18 by JudyObscure

[PaperTree]

14 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Eh, in this case I think it was because he was afraid people would be prejudiced against him because they hate lawyers.

Everybody hates lawyers.

Until they need one.

A good one kept me out of jail in 1992.  Changed my opinion😎

[rr2911]

5 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I really think they are all afraid of voting for the autistic person with the big sob story, like it will somehow cause them to be crucified on social media for being big meanies or something.

That's exactly what I think.  None of the jurors want to be the meanie!  I think Probst pushed a "feel good story" season and he's going to get it one way or the other.  I think he really wants Eva to win.

[30 Helens]

33 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

That's exactly what I think.  None of the jurors want to be the meanie!  I think Probst pushed a "feel good story" season and he's going to get it one way or the other.  I think he really wants Eva to win.

Nah. Eva is the Feel Good story of the season. But Joe ticks all of Jeff’s boxes for strong, sensitive yet rugged hero type. He embodies Jeff’s Survivor ideal. I think Jeff will weep if Joe doesn’t win.

[violet and green]

On 5/17/2025 at 12:38 AM, laurakaye said:

I do not understand the constant anvils over the head from production to try and make us all worship this guy. 

It really is odd. I wouldn't be surprised if they do a military flyby next ep.

Perhaps they didn't have much to work with, after their stupid journey thing (and largely Cedrick - and I also blame Kyle and Kamilla for removing Thomas who was not dull) led to the ouster of every potentially interesting person who came prepared and equipped to play. It is the strangest editing of any season I can recall.

Edited May 18 by violet and green
typo

[iMonrey]

On 5/18/2025 at 1:07 AM, 30 Helens said:

Eh, in this case I think it was because he was afraid people would be prejudiced against him because they hate lawyers. A lawyer in a previous season lied about his profession for that same reason.

Kyle is still quite young (31). At best he's at some law firm where he's pretty far down on the ladder. He's not some rich, big-shot attorney, he's still a newbie. Which is why it strikes me more as ego than anything else for him to think his profession is such a threat he needs to keep it secret. He could tell people he just got out of law school and just got a job at a new firm doing mostly grunt work, nobody would be intimidated by what he really does or resent it. But the fact that he feels the need to keep it secret says to me he thinks others will view him as a "threat" because lawyers are so smart and so cagey. 

We're also seen a lot of cops do the same thing - not because they're afraid others don't like cops but because they think it makes them look too "smart" and they'll be perceived as a threat. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/17/2025 at 10:23 AM, iMonrey said:

I get so tired of people who go on reality shows and pretend their profession is so impressive they have to lie about it because others will see them as a threat.

In the specific context of Survivor, there have been a lot of lawyers and law students cast. Probably at least one each season for the last 20 or so.

There's a certain rationale that makes sense to me to not want to reveal being a lawyer during Survivor.

1. Lawyers/law students have had some level of success at the game. At least three winners, John Cochran, Yul Kwon and Nick Wilson, fall into those categories.

2. One might reasonably think that being a lawyer would raise your threat level should you get to FTC because lawyers hypothetically would be better at giving a closing argument on their behalf to a jury than people from other professions. (Never mind that most lawyers are not trial lawyers, and even among dedicated trial lawyers, some  can't argue their way out of a paper bag, can't connect to people, can't adapt to changing circumstances, etc. Nor that even the best trial lawyers can only do so much with a given set of facts and a given set of rules. If Mitch, for example, were secretly a lawyer, he still couldn't make a compelling case as far as I can see for why he deserves a million dollars for the game he has played).

3. One might reasonably think that in a game that frequently revolves around manipulation/trust issues, that being overtly in a profession that gets a rap for being manipulative and untrustworthy is a hinderance and that people would attempt to use it against you.

4. One might reasonably think that being a lawyer might also mean that jurors will conclude that you don't "deserve/need" the million because you're already likely to be rich thanks to being a lawyer. (There's such a thing as student loans, and not all lawyers make big bucks.)

On 5/17/2025 at 1:17 PM, tinkerbell said:

Yes it's right up there with people who think that because of their appearance (young/old/blonde/cute/small) others will underestimate them. 

There's a certain truth to that too, both in real life and in Survivor.

[iMonrey]

@Chicago Redshirt you make fair points, but it speaks to other players making dumb assumptions, as if there are no bad/dumb lawyers or dumb/bad cops. Which there certainly are. And with Kyle in particular I tend to err on the side of ego rather than precaution, because nobody has reacted to the obvious threat of Joe being a fireman as a distinct advantage, both physically and as an appealing prospect to a jury. 

My impression is also influenced by so many of the dummies who go on Big Brother who think they have to lie about what they do, as if being able to take three months off to go on a reality show doesn't clearly demonstrate a lack of stable employment. I remember one girl who didn't want anyone to know she was a nursing student because she thought it made her too much of a threat.

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

@Chicago Redshirt you make fair points, but it speaks to other players making dumb assumptions, as if there are no bad/dumb lawyers or dumb/bad cops. Which there certainly are. And with Kyle in particular I tend to err on the side of ego rather than precaution, because nobody has reacted to the obvious threat of Joe being a fireman as a distinct advantage, both physically and as an appealing prospect to a jury. 

My impression is also influenced by so many of the dummies who go on Big Brother who think they have to lie about what they do, as if being able to take three months off to go on a reality show doesn't clearly demonstrate a lack of stable employment. I remember one girl who didn't want anyone to know she was a nursing student because she thought it made her too much of a threat.

It's not necessarily true that other players will make dumb assumptions about lawyers being smart or tricksy or what have you.

It's about managing the risk of other players making assumptions and those assumptions coming back to bite you.

For as much hype as Jeff tries to generate about Survivor being a "social experiment," occasionally I'd say that label makes sense. We don't really get answers to some of the questions posed by players' choices, as such. But one component is: how much can you change about how people perceive you to your advantage? 

We will never get an answer to how much or how little Kyle (or anyone else) has been helped by pretending to not be a lawyer (or whatever profession they are). It's likely that labeling himself a lawyer would have put Kyle in a certain box in some people's minds that would be different from whatever he's pretending to be. Would they keep that initial impression of him and have it color their approach to him, for good or bad? Or would they get to know the real him/the him he puts himself out as and change accordingly? Again, no way to prove it, but I'd wager that Joe at a minimum would have been much more skeptical of Kyle's pushing to get rid of David and most recently of his suggesting Shauhin was disloyal of Kyle had self-identified as a lawyer from the jump.

Speaking of Joe: like even though I'm sure there are some firefighters who are cowardly, lazy dickheads, the stereotype is that they are brave, active and kind. If I were Joe, I might have played down or lied about my being a firefighter because I would think that the positive associations with being a firefighter would make people want to make sure I didn't get to the FTC,

Now it turns out that apparently this particular group of contestants has little awareness of who's a threat and who's not. 

Another problem with the "social experiment" is that at this point it has been hopelessly tainted by the fact of it having been run 47 times in a public fashion such that it skews the results. Especially since everyone is on it is a self-proclaimed super fan, they are at least familiar with what strategies have worked and what strategies have failed, and usually they base their games on what they have seen succeed.

This particular crop for whatever reason is actively not following Survivor 101 strategy.(For instance, not trying to trick Eva into flushing her idol, which if people were following Survivor 101 strategy she wouldn't even have gotten gifted in the first place, not trying to break up the Eva/Joe duo, not targeting Joe when he was completely vulnerable the other week, not considering an alliance of outcast to challenge the Cool Kids, not seemingly considering loyalty to their original tribes)

The thing I would love most (next to a no-Idols season) would be a cast of no-stars, no-fans. Have everybody who is a contestant be someone who barely is aware of the game and make them figure things out from scratch, rather than modeling themselves after Survivor rock stars.  

Edited May 20 by Chicago Redshirt

[rr2911]

I know this is a minor detail that was changed when this new era of Survivor came back, but for S50 I would like for Jeff to use the phrase "Come on in guys" at the challenges.

[Lantern7]

Crap, I realized that  I forgot to look for Erik’s cartoon. Here’s “Inception”:

Edited May 22 by Lantern7