Dragon's Den (Canada) - General Discussion

[EverCat]

I'd like for the show to get rid of Diane Buckner. I don't understand why she is there. Shark Tank doesn't have some strange woman roaming around narrating the show. It gets annoying when she is talking over the pitches which are self-explanatory.

[LakeGal]

I wish they would change clothes now and then.  I realize they wear the same so they can edit the shows whatever way they want.  But that jacket of Michael's and those leather pants on Arlene are getting on my nerves. Maybe they could at least wear something plainer so I wouldn't notice it so much.

 

I always liked Arlene in the past.  But since Kevin has gone she is being used as Queen Bee.  This kind of annoys me.  The guys all see to bow down to her.  They act like they have to protect her.  I would rather have the Dragons fight a bit.  But this lovefest with Arlene is just too sickeningly sweet for me.  Maybe they should bring in another female Dragon and let Vikram go. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by LakeGal

[Kel Varnsen]

The athlete deal had to have been prearranged, not that I mind much. I'm a bit surprised there wasn't more of a joint deal arranged, but all in all I'm fine with it. 

I figured it had to be prearranged too. I mean I doubt Michael can put up 2 million of his company's money without any kind of board review or anything. And if it ever got out that he backed out of the deal in the due diligence phase it would be terrible PR.  Also at first I also thought that all the Dragon's might go in, but then David spoke and he was absolutely right, David Chilton has no reason for a corporate sponsorship. And like Traveller519 said it seems like the perfect deal for Michael since he can have Olympic Gold Medalists show up at corporate events of his, or entertain business associates at hotel rooms or whatever during events held in Canada.

 

Also on a side note, those two gold medalist women were both gorgeous. 

 

 

It reminds me more of something the British predecessor does.  UK Dragons Den likes to have different types of pitches so you get bands looking to be signed, a young Formula 1 Racer seeking a sponsor, an artist who wanted backers for a single art showing, theatrical tours.  Every episode seems to have something besides a straight-up product-selling business. I tend to forget how buttoned-down the CBC (and especially US) versions are until they do something a little different.

I liked that they mixed it up a bit. Having some of the other options like you described, or maybe having scientists looking for research money could add an interesting new level to the show. Especially since it seems like the level of the businesses isn't what it used to be.

 

Wonder of wonders! Vikram made a deal! And it wasn't food related! Honestly it almost felt like it was a gimmie at that point.

 

 

I was amazed by that too. Although I do wonder why he doesn't try to get in on some of those partnership deals. I mean that dog shower thing, with Jim and David in on it it seems like it would be a guaranteed money maker, why not try and get a piece of that. Plus if you go in with someone else, especially experienced Dragon's I would have to think there is way less risk.

[looksee]

The compost bin is a smart idea, but what is going to stop all the other companies that already make compostible food containers from doing the same? They're very lucky to get Arlene because their products will be all about the marketing. I wish they had ask the guys how much it retails (how many are in a pack and how much?). Me, I line my stainless steel bin with newspaper and throw the bin in the dishwasher when it needs a cleaning.

[UsernameFatigue]

I thought the green lid guys said that the product sold for $6.99 for a pack of 5? I am not positive though. Wow, Jim sure got pissy with Arlene and it sounded like David got annoyed back with him (as well as Arlene). I don't know how successful they will be, but I am glad they went with Arlene and David rather than Jim just because he was being such a baby.

 

I thought the dog buddy idea was a terrible one. I can see wanting a buddy for your dog, but I would have to know someone really well before I would leave a pet with that person. Heck, look at what happened to those poor dogs that were left with a petsitter who was being paid to look after them, and she left them to die in the canopy of a pickup I did love though watching the dogs running back and forth while the guy was making his pitch.

 

The circus guy was interesting. I remember seeing his business on the second floor of a building at the New Westminster Quay (assuming it is the same one) and wondered how profitable it was.

[Oinky Boinky]

A phone that is also a lighter?

 

Who is your customer?  Who is demanding this?  Who will pay for this?

 

I am going to stick to my old tried and true method of rubbing two smartphones together to start my fire.

[Kel Varnsen]

There was an article today in the Ottawa Citizen about how those two freestyle skiing gold medalist sisters have had difficulty finding funding and have had to go on a reality TV to try and get support. And the more I think about it the more I really don't get it, I mean is this just a Canadian thing? I mean even if you forget about skiing all together, these are two gold medalists who have an extra bit of a story hook about being sisters. Plus they are young and really attractive. You would think all kinds of companies would be lining up to try and get them to be there spokespeople. Am I missing something? 

[The Crazed Spruce]

That lighter phone comes darn close to replacing the reusable pizza box as the worst product ever pitched on this show.

[Taeolas]

You're missing the 300lb gorilla south of our border. The fact is, a lot of Canadian companies are just simple facades in front of US corps. Which I suspect makes it harder for our truly national efforts to get funding. Companies are more likely to support the American athletes because they'll have a larger target to aim at and draw from. 

 

Plus, I think Canada's athletic framework in general isn't as robust as, say the European ones for various reasons. It's basically the classic Canadian problem of being halfway between American and European, and hurting because of it.

 

Of course, I may just be puffing hot air; I don't really follow athletics enough to know one way or another; but the above is what I've heard (or think I've heard) through the years and/or are extrapolating from common sense assumptions. 

[Taeolas]

I've gotta wonder if they had to cut/edit around Jim lamenting about missing Kevin for tearing into that "smart phone" product at the end of the pitch. It's certainly up there for one of the worst long-run pitches. 

 

The compostable bins look interesting. The condo/apartment market for them will probably be great. Family's would probably want a larger more permanant container in general, so wouldn't be the market for them; but single people and couples would probably jump at them. (If my city had a compost program I'd probably consider them). Arlene should be a good fit for them, either to get them the advertising or to flip them to a bigger player. 

 

It took most of the season, but Vikram seems to be starting to get the hang of it. While I don't think he made any deals, it did seem he was looking to team up on a few of them.

[looksee]

I thought the green lid guys said that the product sold for $6.99 for a pack of 5?

 

Ah ok I must've missed that part. Thanks! I actually sell compost containers in my shop and I'm conflicted if I should give them a chance...I currently sell paperbags designed specifically for food scrap (ie. does not leak). It's a couple bucks cheaper and looks like it holds about the same amount as the green lid.

[Amarsir]

The phone guy reminded me of Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Not only did he have the same smirk, but his whole pitch sounded like "I know what these business bozos want to hear," followed by an utter flop.

 

Wow, Jim sure got pissy with Arlene and it sounded like David got annoyed back with him (as well as Arlene). I don't know how successful they will be, but I am glad they went with Arlene and David rather than Jim just because he was being such a baby.

I'm pretty sure he was joking. It's much more in his character to play mad than to actually be mad, and "I'm going to launch my own and take yours out" is exactly the kind of taunt you would make when playing around.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he really wanted the deal and thought he'd get it. But I didn't sense any genuine hard feelings.

[Amarsir]

That makes a fair amount of sense. Unless it's purely a Canadian business - and most aren't - it makes sense to choose ad campaigns that can cross borders.  (I mean here I am a DD regular viewer and I live in New Jersey.)

[Kel Varnsen]

That makes a fair amount of sense. Unless it's purely a Canadian business - and most aren't - it makes sense to choose ad campaigns that can cross borders.  (I mean here I am a DD regular viewer and I live in New Jersey.)

You're probably right, although there are a decent amount of Canadian companies. And even companies that are Canadian affiliates of American companies when they air commercials in Canada they oftentimes like to remind the viewers that they are part of Canada. Companies like Walmart always reference that they are "walmart Canada" in their commercials. Home Depot and McDonalds have similar tactics. Plus with the number of other Olympians that seem to get exposure you would think these women would be an advertisers dream.

[Taeolas]

Well, some changes are coming to the Den. We have to look for a new Dragon. And it isn't Vikram that is leaving.

 

David Chilton is leaving

 

Next season will also feature some changes, as Dragon David Chilton is leaving the show to focus on his deals full-time.

Having starred as a Dragon for three seasons, David closed 22 deals which include success stories like Awake Chocolate; Steeped Tea; Hand and Beak; Love Child Organics; and The Heft.

 

That's a bit disappointing; he's really grown into his position as a dragon since showing up. Still, it sounds like he's a more hands-on dragon too, so getting more deals might be detrimental to him.

 

I hope they can find another Female Dragon; it would certainly help balance the den a bit more IMO. 

[JustBecause]

Wow. It seems as if Dragon's Den can't keep their Dragons to save their lives. As it is, I concur with those who say that this should be the opportunity to get a 2nd female dragon to take the open seat.

 

Now this might be an impossible dream...but what if Dragon's Den went for Daymond from Shark Tank, and give him Vikram's (or maybe David's) seat?

 

My rationale is simply this: he appears to be the odd man out more often than not on Shark Tank lately and maybe the allure of a seat in the Den that'd be his and his alone might be compelling. Plus, we gave Shark Tank Robert and Mr. Wonderful, so they "owe us" (and there's no way in hell that I personally want Marc Cuban anyway near Dragon's Den).

[The Crazed Spruce]

Now this might be an impossible dream...but what if Dragon's Den went for Daymond from Shark Tank, and give him Vikram's (or maybe David's) seat?

I don't think Daymond has enough ties to Canada to qualify for the show. Nice thought, though.

Personally, I'd like to see a shark from Newfoundland in the den, or at least the Maritimes. (I wonder, does Danny Williams have enough of a net worth to count?)

[sadiegirl]

I am so sad to hear about David.  He is my favorite.  Even though I live in the US, I enjoy Dragon's Den more than Shark Tank and he's one of the reasons why. I hope whoever they find is more like David and less like the two new Dragons, because they have not grown on me at all.

[Amarsir]

That is a terrible shame. Not only was he broadly interested in all kinds of businesses and entrepreneurs, but he was behind a lot of the den camaraderie.  Without him I fear there will be fewer joint deals, less joking around, and generally less fun.

 

I can't imagine who they'll get to replace him, but I certainly wouldn't mind another woman on the panel also.

[Traveller519]

Freestyle skiing is this weird balance when it comes to sponsorship especially with the new slopestyle and halfpipe disciplines where competitors were not previously part of a team. In those sports the athletes have historically been self managed entities, they independently get their sponsorships from the Equipment, Clothing, Energy drink, etc. companies and managed which events they were competing in.

 

With the sport moving to a FIS-regulated "world cup" format where they're on teams, most are still under old contracts, and much more marketable to the sponsors as individuals than team members. So when it comes to team based competition the team can't pull on the equipment manufacturers the way a national downhill team can. There's too many competing interests.

 

Canada has the biggest Freestyle ski team, along with the US, in the world. Their funding requirements are huge, and it's tough to find that sponsorship via normal avenues.

[sadiegirl]

I would love to try the Nova Scotia Fisherman's cuticle cream but it's $11 to ship to the states.  Meaning the shipping will be more than the product.  Hope I can find it locally because I'm really interested.

[Kel Varnsen]

It makes sense I guess with the family episode would have a bunch of deals (it seemed like a bit more than usual, but I am not keeping track). But it still kind of seems that Vikram doesn't quite "get it" when it comes to being on the show. I mean I think it was the won ton pitch (might have been the ice cream), where Jim made an offer, and then Vikram went after him and made the exact same offer. Now just thinking about it from a business owner's point of  view, why would you go with Vikram when you could go with Jim who was offering the same amount of money? For the same amount of money I am not sure what kind of situation there would be where Vikram would be a better partner than Jim. 

[Amarsir]

That's true. While Vikram's a well-qualified Dragon, he's not fighting for deals the way he needs to. Not going in on enough things and not undercutting where he would have to.  Not only does Jim have obviously better connections, but he just has a better track record on the show.  If Vikram would fight for deal for a year or so, even offering higher valuation than he really wants to, I think he'd be able to come back for another season and have more entrepreneurs favoring him.

[Kel Varnsen]

So it looks like Arlene is leaving too. The article isn't too specific, but I would assume it would be at the end of the season. Hopefully they can get some someone good. Because I am not sure I want to watch the show just to see Jim.

[Amarsir]

Woah.

 

I wonder if they'll end up putting the show on hiatus or possibly doing some kind of reboot. Not that they need to, but not only would Jim be the only original Dragon, he'd be the only one with more than 1 season of experience.

[Kel Varnsen]

Woah.

 

I wonder if they'll end up putting the show on hiatus or possibly doing some kind of reboot. Not that they need to, but not only would Jim be the only original Dragon, he'd be the only one with more than 1 season of experience.

Jim is probably thinking that considering he is richer than most other dragons (not sure how rich Michael is) and the fact that next year it would be him and 4 really inexperienced Dragon's (none who will have his level of fame), he could make a ton of money by picking up some really profitable companies, just based on lack of experienced competition.

[Taeolas]

Whoa, now they have to get a new female dragon. Hopefully they can get 2. I can understand Arlene leaving, but this is a big departure.

 

Next season, no matter who they get, will be rough; that's a lot of new blood, but maybe it will be needed. With the ratings DD pulls in, I don't see them putting the show on hiatus, but it might be time to shake things up a bit more.

 

I'd almost argue that they should let Jim retire too. He's the Elder Dragon in more ways than one; by carrying on with the two newest dragons + replacements, they'd be able to have a fresh look in general. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I would rather see them get rid of Vikram than get rid of Jim. Jim I find is more interesting, goes in on more deals and has developed more of a character. Plus I imagine that CBC would want to keep some consistency so that people tuning in will at least someone they know and expect to see on the show.

 

Then again it will be curious to see who they could get. I wonder how many crazy rich CEO types who have the time to film 20 episodes a year of the show, plus do promotion there are in Canada? Probably not many who have the kind of fortune Jim does. Some quick searching tells me his fortune is more than 6 times that of the next richest dragon (Michael) and 32 times that of David. It is easy to see with his deals, compared to say David's or Vikram's that having that kind of money makes a difference.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[PRgal]

I'd love to see a 40-ish Dragon.  It would be nice to have a slightly younger perspective on things.  All of the Dragons are 55 or over, right? 

[UsernameFatigue]

 I think Jim was joking after he lost the deal, but I believe he was quite serious during the back and forth with Arlene. Jim being surly is not that uncommon, though it is more often directed at pitchers that annoy him. However being rude to Arlene is not a first for him.

Edited February 13, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[Traveller519]

The Won Ton deal would have been such a good parternership deal for Jim and Vikram. Vikram could have got them west coast distribution, probably helped tweak the machine and started selling the machine to food wholesalers. I was a little angry he didn't go in on that one.

 

Wek appears to be taking the the former Brett deals. He likes a good story. Kevin would have lost his mind at some of his deals.

[Amarsir]

You might be right. Much as I said in another thread that Vikram needs to learn to undercut his deals as befits his place in the pecking order, Jim has learned that he doesn't have to and therefore acts like the alpha dog a bit too much.

[Amarsir]

For a minute there I really thought Jim was going to back the Bigfoot guy.  That would have been the craziest deal in DD history.

 

Again Vikram makes an offer that's just not competitive.  The biscotti family asked $100k for 15%. David offered just that.  Arlene eventually offered that plus another $100k in marketing.  But Vikram wanted 25% plus a 3% royalty.  Even before Arlene came in he was clearly banking on his background offering value that I'm just not sure the pitchers are buying into.  

[sadiegirl]

I want to try that biscotti.  Sounded like the orange/chocolate was very tasty.

And yes to Vikram not really understanding that he doesn't (yet) have the kind of reputation where people will pick him even when he's not offering the best deal.

 

Very sad that the guy's laptop was stolen - you know, the one with all the pictures of this creature that doesn't exist...

[Taeolas]

In a move that surprises no one, rumour has it that Vikram Vij may be leaving the show.

 

On the one hand, 3 Dragons leaving in one season is rough. The producers might pull out the stops to encourage him to stay. Especially since two of Vij's main undercutters are leaving as well.

 

On the other hand, it's obvious to us that he just isn't fitting in as a dragon. He's misplaying the deals he's offering, and just isn't selling himself as a good partner all in all. 

 

Losing all these dragons at once is surprising, but it's a great time to shake things up. It'll be a rejuvenated show next season I'm sure, since the pitchers and the dragons will be feeling out who's best.

From another article it's obvious the show is a lot more intense than we see.

 

“What people forget is that the audience only sees a small portion of what goes on,” says Wise. “The seasons I worked on the show, filming started at 7 a.m. and ended at 9 p.m. So a day was filled with more than a dozen pitches; each could last an hour, sometimes more. Multiply that by weeks of shooting and that is hundreds of pitches that one has to hear. That would take a lot out of anyone.”

And then there are deals to be followed up on.
“It’s not just the money, but the time and effort it takes to help and mentor those entrepreneurs who win the investment,” he says. “Each deal can add hundreds of hours to the investor’s annual calendar.”

 

In the first article, Jim mentions he has 2 people hired *JUST* to handle deals he makes on the show. That shows the depths of his pockets, and is probably something the other dragons can't handle as well. David certainly feels more hands on, and Arlene seems like she's a hands on type as well. 

 

I really hope we can get 2 female dragons coming up. If CBC were smart, they'd get 4 new Dragons, and start rotating the den, like Tank does.

 

Hell, if CBC and ABC and the Sharks could work out a deal, I wouldn't mind an episode with a Shark or two 'coming up to visit' (and not Kevin or Robert), Any of the sharks would be a great as a visitor. (Imagine Mark and Jim getting in a bidding war; thankfully their interests are different enough that that wouldn't likely happen)

[Kel Varnsen]

Hell, if CBC and ABC and the Sharks could work out a deal, I wouldn't mind an episode with a Shark or two 'coming up to visit' (and not Kevin or Robert), Any of the sharks would be a great as a visitor. (Imagine Mark and Jim getting in a bidding war; thankfully their interests are different enough that that wouldn't likely happen)

I don't see that happening either, but it would be nice if we could get another dragon with the same level of wealth that Jim has. Because you are right the dude is rich enough so that for any deal he gets he can just assign some junior executive with an MBA to be the representative for Treliving International who is the liaison with that company.  Without having someone as rich as him, I worry he could just buy out any good deal that comes along and no other dragon could hope to compete (especially if most of the other new dragons are ones that people wouldn't know).

 

Plus the one thing I always liked about Brett was that being a billionaire he really had a whole other level of "don't give a shit" money that the other dragons didn't have. So dropping $50,000 on something he thought was cool, but would never make him any money, was no big deal.

[Traveller519]

I'd much rather see Vikram partner on some of those deals. Learn the ropes and offer your insight.

[Traveller519]

Yeah, the Canadian Billionaire pool just isn't that big.

 

It would be awesome if they could get Belinda Stronarch. She's a known name, could probably get a good portion of the family trust over, is incredibly photogenic, and I'm sure she'd love doing something to help prop up the CBC. The Lululemon guy would be entertaining, if he wasn't such a terrible person. Mark Schienberg would be awesome! Huge net worth, new money, and entertaining.

[The Crazed Spruce]

It would be awesome if they could get Belinda Stronarch. She's a known name, could probably get a good portion of the family trust over, is incredibly photogenic, and I'm sure she'd love doing something to help prop up the CBC.

Ooooooooh, she'd be perfect.

[sadiegirl]

Rewatching this episode now and I'm confused about the homeless guy.  He said he's been homeless and living out of the back of his truck but that his wife visited him regularly.  Where was she living?  And couldn't be live there too? I'm sure there's a logical explanation but I was trying to figure out the logistics and couldn't.  So I wish they had gone into his story a bit more (never thought I'd say that since I hate the stories on Shark Tank).

[Miss Scarlet]

Nice job by the editors showing Michael declaring that he never makes deals on products with an expiration date during the Won Ton pitch and the making a deal with the ice cream line at the end of the episode.

[Miss Scarlet]

David's leaving and Jim and Michael (and possibly Vikram) are still going to be there?

 

I'm out.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'd much rather see Vikram partner on some of those deals. Learn the ropes and offer your insight.

I honestly don't know why he doesn't try that more. I mean David did that all the time when he first started, and Bruce was the king of doing that for just about anything that wasn't something where he knew all about the industry. 

 

Very sad that the guy's laptop was stolen - you know, the one with all the pictures of this creature that doesn't exist...

 

Maybe it was Bigfoot that stole his laptop?

 

Overall this episode was kind of boring for me. Fell asleep through a couple of the pitches.

[The Crazed Spruce]

The CBC announced their Fall lineup today, and officially renewed Dragon's Den for another season.

[Amarsir]

If you want to win deals, look how David did made that offer for the socks. He gets the protection of a debt structure and they get a better valuation.

 

Wek was awesome with his 85% offer, just kind of railroading a couple punks who thought they knew what hardball was. That's exactly what the show needs sometimes and even Kevin couldn't have done it that well.

 

The Hockey strategy guy was both crazy and boring. I'd have rather seen one of the quick pitches get expanded, even the cereal pants.  I'm just glad we got the abridged version and not 10 minutes of powerpoint.

 

The squib product was really interesting. It immediately seemed like a very small market, which they honed in on. But it could work. I could totally see the industry making them the standard, and that's a nice solid business.

[Traveller519]

A few really big deals this week. Hundreds of thousands of dollars for over a million dollar valuations. That's cool too see. So often this show focuses on the small guys. 

 

I do wish they would cut it out with the wack jobs though. Sasquatch Man and Hockey Strategist kill the momentum of the show.

[Amarsir]

I didn't mind Sasquatch Man. Part of the show's tone for me is that it doesn't take itself too seriously. And that sometimes pays off on long shots, like when a cereal called "Holy Crap" turned out to be a huge seller.  (Not that they weren't a serious business, but the name would get them objections already.)  It also helps me stay lighthearted during the serious market / awful pitch moments.  Like the ones with scam-type health claims, or the ridiculous-valuation-and-not-budging people.

 

I do think they need to keep it moving for momentum though: keep stuff on screen only as long as it's interesting.  But I don't think one silly pitch hurts the presentation of what comes before and after.

[Kel Varnsen]

For the most part that was boring. Who the hell thought letting that hockey guy pitch to the dragons? That was terrible TV. Any one  of those dud pitches they show in that segment near the end would have been better.

 

The artist thing was a little interesting, but again knowing the history why let it through. I would have thought that when deals are agreed upon the dragons would make every effort to finish due diligence before the show airs, Since otherwise I bet you would see a ton of the same thing, where a person shakes on a deal, then the show airs, they get a giant bump in sales and realize they don't need to give away equity.

 

Other than that drama the pitch seemed stupid. Michael going off about all these top artists he knew seemed dumb. I mean does anyone think that Snoop Dogg is going to let people book him for shows using some phone app? Unless I have entered the world of the movie Old School, I don't see that happening.

 

Plus I am getting kind of tired at Arlene going on and on about how she is a marketing expert. I am sure she is, but at the same time it would shock the hell out of me to find that Jim Treliving doesn't employ a small army of marketing experts just as skilled as Arlene, based on all the businesses he owns.

 

Also Vikram and his lack of offers actually made me laugh for once. In the thing for the cell phone cleaner he talked  about how in India he studied as a chemist so he might know something about the product. Then when it came time to make offers he said he was out because it was not something he had any expertise in.

[Taeolas]

Now we'll just have to wait and see who the 2 or 3 new Dragons will be. Considering they're losing Arlene and David, I suspect they'll pull out the stops to try and keep Vikram at least for this coming season now.

[Kel Varnsen]

I really didn't understand the point of that drink thing. If you are buying a premixed drink at the liquor store already, what is the advantage of the bottle within a bottle design? When you pour it you end up with the exact same thing if it had just come in one bottle.

It seemed like it would have worked better as a new cocktail shaker design since you wouldn't have to measure ingredients and would always get the same ratio.