S07.16 A Hundred Thousand Angels

[GHScorpiosRule]

Season Finale.

Denzell must perform a dangerous operation with the skills he's learned from Claire; William asks for help from an unexpected source in his mission to save Jane.

Edited Wednesday at 07:34 PM by GHScorpiosRule

[BitterApple]

I'm gonna have to rewatch this because what the heck?! How did Faith survive? Did Master Raymond do some sort of witchcraft to resurrect her and if so, why not return her to Claire and Jamie? Also, how would Faith have known the song Claire sang when she was only a newborn (and a presumably dead one at that), when she heard it?

Also, please tell me Jane was an orphan Faith took in because otherwise William slept with his half-niece. Not sure how old Jane was supposed to be, but if Faith was only a little older than Brianna, she would've been extremely young when/if she gave birth to her. 

Of course William has to be an asshole, despite everyone risking their necks to help him. 

Poor Lord John, I hated to see him part with Jamie on a sour note. 

I figured the finale would end with Jamie being arrested for deserting and Claire and Ian would have to rescue him in S8. This was one hell of a plot twist. 

Edited Friday at 10:21 PM by BitterApple

[FnkyChkn34]

Yes, William slept with his niece.  That's the implication, at least!  Ridiculous.  And disturbing...

I don't love where this season went.

[LoveIsJoy]

This was such an odd episode to me for several reasons.  The main one is that I have ZERO recollection of Claire and Jamie having a baby other than Brianna.  Mr. LoveisJoy didn’t remember it either.  We were both like “Whaaaa??”  How many seasons ago did that happen?  And were both stymied by the sudden appearance of Master Raymond.  I was like, “Are we supposed to know who he is?  I mean have we met this character before?”  The Mr. just shrugged 

I also couldn’t understand how Faith could have been old enough to be Jane’s mother if she was roughly the same age as Breanna.  

When Claire announced to Jamie that she wanted to go home, I thought, “where is home?” Didn’t their NC property get destroyed in a fire?

Plus, Ian conveniently tells Rachel the night before that he think he wants to go back to NC with Claire and Jamie.  And, of course, Rachel readily agrees to be by his side first thing in the morning [insert eyeroll].

 I also hated how much of a jerk Jamie still is to Lord John.  He’s not angry with Claire but he can’t forgive Lord John, who BTW, saved Claire’s life?  And who also rescued his son, William.  Ridiculous.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

his was such an odd episode to me for several reasons.  The main one is that I have ZERO recollection of Claire and Jamie having a baby other than Brianna.  Mr. LoveisJoy didn’t remember it either.  We were both like “Whaaaa??”  How many seasons ago did that happen?

Season Two. Season one ended with Claire telling Jamie she was pregnant as they headed for France.

When Jamie went to duel:kill Black Jack Randall because he had raped Fergus, Claire followed him, went into premature labor and gave birth to Faith who was stillborn.

This is the most insulting kind of turn for the show to take because the Faith death was one of Cait’s best work, not to mention it makes no sense. Yes, this is a time travel show, but to pull the most bull shitty of the old and tired soap opera trope is just LAZY.

Edited Saturday at 06:10 PM by GHScorpiosRule

[ch1]

The only purpose for Faith to have lived is to cause horrible suffering for pretty much all involved.  

Besides the jumping the shark angle you have:

1.  Jaime and Claire essentially having their child stolen.

2.  Faith leaving behind 2 young girls that became/would become prostitutes which led one to murder and suicide.

3.  Their uncle unknowingly having sex with his niece.

4.  Jaime and Claire just discovering 2 granddaughters whose lives were horrible and Jaime arriving too late to save one.

If this isn’t just a red herring they really couldn’t have come up with a plot line better than this for the last season?  Even if by some miracle of convenient writing Faith is still alive Jane is still dead.  
 

[FnkyChkn34]

3 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

This was such an odd episode to me for several reasons.  The main one is that I have ZERO recollection of Claire and Jamie having a baby other than Brianna.  Mr. LoveisJoy didn’t remember it either.  We were both like “Whaaaa??”  How many seasons ago did that happen?  And were both stymied by the sudden appearance of Master Raymond.  I was like, “Are we supposed to know who he is?  I mean have we met this character before?”  The Mr. just shrugged 

In addition to @GHScorpiosRule answering about Faith, Master Raymond was also from Paris in season 2.  He owned an apothecary and got involved in their storyline by saving Claire from the Compte (and the King?) through sorcery (?).  It was heavily implied that he was also a time traveler and a healer, and he told Claire that they would see each other again.  Jamie's explanation of her having a dream about him is fine with me, and I'd like to leave it at that. 

[andidante]

I had to watch Roger's reunion with his family twice. It was my favorite part of this episode!

[Ziggy]

12 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

I also couldn’t understand how Faith could have been old enough to be Jane’s mother if she was roughly the same age as Breanna.

I promise I'm not picking on you.  I just noticed that there were a few things you said that no one responded to, and I thought you made some excellent observations that deserved a response.

Faith would likely be about 2 years older than Bri.  Bri was probably 22 when she first came through the stones.  Jemmy is about 10 now, so Bri is 33 ish?  So, it's really not crazy for a 35 year old to have a daughter (Jane) who is, what 15 or 16?  Even now that's not crazy, and in the 18th century, it was probably the norm.

 

12 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

When Claire announced to Jamie that she wanted to go home, I thought, “where is home?” Didn’t their NC property get destroyed in a fire?

Plus, Ian conveniently tells Rachel the night before that he think he wants to go back to NC with Claire and Jamie.  And, of course, Rachel readily agrees to be by his side first thing in the morning [insert eyeroll].

 I also hated how much of a jerk Jamie still is to Lord John.  He’s not angry with Claire but he can’t forgive Lord John, who BTW, saved Claire’s life?  And who also rescued his son, William.  Ridiculous.

Jamie owns about 10,000 acres.  The house burned down, so they would have to start over.  But NC is most definitely still home.

I didn't think it was strange that Rachel so eagerly agreed to move to NC.  They don't really have a place of their own.  They have both been traveling with the Army.  She probably already thought NC would be where they ended up going.  I think the only other option, really, is to continue traveling with the Army.

 

12 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

I also hated how much of a jerk Jamie still is to Lord John.  He’s not angry with Claire but he can’t forgive Lord John, who BTW, saved Claire’s life?  And who also rescued his son, William.  Ridiculous.

Jamie has clearly focused all of his emotions on, "John betrayed me and slept with my wife."  You really would think he'd be just as mad at Claire.  I suppose he wants to be in a good place with Claire, so he doesn't want to be mad at her.  But he's still mad, and he still feels betrayed.  So he feels the need to blame someone.  He can't blame Claire, so that just leaves John.  He's flawed.  Hopefully he gets past it.

How many times do we see something like this play out in real life?  Someone's boyfriend or girlfriend (or spouse) cheats on them, and, rather than being upset with their significant other, they blame the other person.  It might not make sense, but it's quite common.

Edited Sunday at 04:00 AM by Ziggy

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Faith would likely be about 2 years older than Bri.  Bri was probably 22 when she first came through the stones.  Jemmy is about 10 now, so Bri is 33 ish?  So, it's really not crazy for a 35 year old to have a daughter (Jane) who is, what 15 or 16?  Even now that's not crazy, and in the 18th century, it was probably the norm.

When I was 35, my kids were 17 and 15.  Not unheard of.  Married 6 weeks out of high school.

[Ziggy]

Ug, I just replied to my own post instead of editing it!  Wish I knew how to delete it :-)

Edited Sunday at 03:59 AM by Ziggy

[oceanblue]

I think it's a much bigger stretch that Faith was born dead than her age.   😀

[sashabear21]

I thought it was nice of Jamie to come up with some nice adjectives to describe Geneva instead of just telling William, "She was a spoiled, selfish pain in the ass, you know you remind me a lot of her". 

[LoveIsJoy]

19 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Faith would likely be about 2 years older than Bri.  Bri was probably 22 when she first came through the stones.  Jemmy is about 10 now, so Bri is 33 ish?  So, it's really not crazy for a 35 year old to have a daughter (Jane) who is, what 15 or 16?  Even now that's not crazy, and in the 18th century, it was probably the norm

Thanks for your viewpoint. For some reason I was thinking that Bri was younger than 30s, and that Jemmie was only about 8.  I also clocked Jane at early 20s rather than a teenager.  So your scenario is definitely plausible (assuming Faith miraculously survived).

19 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I didn't think it was strange that Rachel so eagerly agreed to move to NC.  They don't really have a place of their own.  They have both been traveling with the Army.  She probably already thought NC would be where they ended up going.  I think the only other option, really, is to continue traveling with the Army.

I didn’t so much think it was strange that she agreed.  I thought it was strange that the decision was made the night before, like it was no big deal she was leaving her beloved brother, or that they had roles in the Army already (really, you can just walk away from duty like that?), and there was no time to even think it through. Maybe that’s just how it was in those days…drop everything at the last second and keep it moving?🤷🏽‍♀️

19 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Jamie has clearly focused all of his emotions on, "John betrayed me and slept with my wife."  You really would think he'd be just as mad at Claire.  I suppose he wants to be in a good place with Claire, so he doesn't want to be mad at her.  But he's still mad, and he still feels betrayed.  So he feels the need to blame someone.  He can't blame Claire, so that just leaves John.  He's flawed.  Hopefully he gets past it.

I agree with this. It was still disappointing to me because the intensity of Jamie and John’s friendship closely matches the intensity of his romantic relationship with Claire.  It was jarring to me that Outlander goes out of its way to depict this fantasy, all-consuming love story for Jamie and Claire.  Contrariwise, with Jamie and John, it’s suddenly all about realism.

Of course now I can see William has inherited Jamie’s petulant, stubborn streak.

[DoctorAtomic]

Why did we take a week off? Build suspense for Claire? No offense to the actor, but I just don't care about Jane. I'm baffled why this is even an ongoing plot. Did we need a 5+ minute scene to open the show? I mean, I'm not going to not want more Lord John, but the plot is a snooze. Also, William is a snit for chewing out Lord John and now running to him to help his whore. Roger and Buck are vastly more interesting. Him and Bree haven't been in a scene in forever. 

I'm actually glad they skipped over showing us Claire in surgery and went right to after. We know she's going to pull through, and focusing on her and Jamie was a good scene. Props to Hunter for pulling it off too. He's got to be the most skilled doctor on the planet. 

Young Ian kisses the dog first. I love it. Jamie helping Claire pee was hilarious. For some reason to me, they both looked really old. I think Claire was thinking the same asking to go home. 

Come on Jamie, at least say your sorry for Lord John's eye and almost getting him hanged as a spy. You can still be ticked about it. No one is blaming you for being upset. 

Why was there a portrait of Claire in the house in the 1740s? Or was that supposed to look more like Bree as Ellen? Weird camera shot on Bree almost sideways talking to Mr. Fraser too. 

Sure, Jamie, leave Claire on her own to recover while you go on a jailbreak for your son's whore. I wasn't expecting her to kill herself. Brutal take, show. Though fitting for William's character in terms of his overall uselessness. I'm not sure why Jamie and Claire should be taking on responsibility for the sister, but it's not like William could raise her. She's probably better off at the Ridge if there's other kids there. Imagine if there was a school there that Roger founded even.

Why can't Denzell just go to the Ridge and be the country doctor? He'd probably like it. 

Why they kill the dog so sudden? It's not like anyone was saying, 'he's getting old.' At least give everyone time to prepare. By which I mean me. 

I enjoyed the episode, but it was kind of flat overall. 

Was that the end of the season? I guess I'll see you all in 2029 or 2030 when the final season airs. 

On 1/18/2025 at 8:26 AM, LoveIsJoy said:

The main one is that I have ZERO recollection of Claire and Jamie having a baby other than Brianna.

I thought she had a miscarriage so I had no idea what was going on. Do not remember any scene of Claire singing at all. I don't really care, but I also don't know what the point is. As some of you mentioned, are they going to spend next season looking for Faith? I can't see how. That's not going to interest me in the slightest. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Why they kill the dog so sudden? It's not like anyone was saying, 'he's getting old.' At least give everyone time to prepare. By which I mean me. 

And ME! And the cruel way to do it making Rollo look like a taxidermy with his eyes WIDE open! I’m having nightmares already.

6 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I thought she had a miscarriage so I had no idea what was going on. Do not remember any scene of Claire singing at all. I don't really care, but I also don't know what the point is.

No, Claire went into premature labor sndvthe baby was a stillborn. And that was the actual flashback to season 2-when Claire sang to DEAD baby Faith, and not a new scene.

The reason? LAZINESS.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't get the narrative choice of getting rid of the dog unless it was just difficult logistically. 

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

Thanks for your viewpoint. For some reason I was thinking that Bri was younger than 30s, and that Jemmie was only about 8.  I also clocked Jane at early 20s 

Bri was born in 1948 and referenced 1980 as the current time, so she's 32. I think Claire got pregnant quickly after Faith died, so my guess is Faith is 34-ish. Like you, I pegged Jane as early 20s. She looked way older than 15 or 16. 

So I'm guessing with this new development they don't go back to the Ridge? If Jane and Frances were living in the Philadelphia area, Claire and Jamie would have to remain there if they wanted to trace back the history. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, Claire went into premature labor sndvthe baby was a stillborn. And that was the actual flashback to season 2-when Claire sang to DEAD baby Faith, and not a new scene.

I didn't think it was a new scene. I just had no recollection of it. tbh, I totally forgot about the first pregnancy until they brought it up here. When was Season 2? I think Biggie was still alive. 

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

If Jane and Frances were living in the Philadelphia area, Claire and Jamie would have to remain there if they wanted to trace back the history.

They're already packed, but that doesn't mean anything. Maybe Claire will write to Raymond first? 

They better not end this entire show without Lord John and Jamie making up. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

34 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I didn't think it was a new scene. I just had no recollection of it. tbh, I totally forgot about the first pregnancy until they brought it up here. When was Season 2? I think Biggie was still alive. 

Season 2 was in 2016. First half was in France, and the latter half back in Scotland and leading up to Culloden.

[taanja]

On 1/17/2025 at 4:01 PM, BitterApple said:

I'm gonna have to rewatch this because what the heck?! How did Faith survive? Did Master Raymond do some sort of witchcraft to resurrect her and if so, why not return her to Claire and Jamie? Also, how would Faith have known the song Claire sang when she was only a newborn (and a presumably dead one at that), when she heard it?

Also, please tell me Jane was an orphan Faith took in because otherwise William slept with his half-niece. Not sure how old Jane was supposed to be, but if Faith was only a little older than Brianna, she would've been extremely young when/if she gave birth to her. 

Of course William has to be an asshole, despite everyone risking their necks to help him. 

Poor Lord John, I hated to see him part with Jamie on a sour note. 

I figured the finale would end with Jamie being arrested for deserting and Claire and Ian would have to rescue him in S8. This was one hell of a plot twist. 

You are literally thinking/asking the same things as me! How would an infant (and a dead one at that!) remember a song her mother sang? and yeah! What did Master Raymond do? maybe he passed off a fake dead baby to Claire/ the nuns but then what the hell did he do with the real baby? < I guess that's why he is asking for forgiveness!

My thoughts went immediately to him selling her to a brothel. (Because Jane said she was in a brothel since she was ten and the little sister was there as well (her virginity being sold to the highest bidder) so maybe they were raised in one? Kind of like Fergus.

and yes! yes! yes! How old was Jane? because Faith was only 2? 3? years older that Bree! and Bree was like 18 to maybe 20 when Jem was born.  So was Faith a child herself when she had a child?

and yup! William fucked his niece. No way to sugar coat that!

They said the final season coming soon -- but I am jaded. Coming soon? Does that mean in a year? Two years? 200 years? LOL

Off to read the book thread because there are some details I have GOT to know!

[ch1]

Since Blood of My Blood is airing this summer I would bet season 8 will come out sometime in 2026.  
 

[LoveIsJoy]

Thanks @GHScorpiosRule and everyone who shared all of your knowledge and insight from past seasons.  I sometimes have a hard time keeping up with changing timelines, characters, etc.  Story arcs often start and end abruptly; with the various accents, half of the time I can’t understand what is being said.  And the amount of time that passes between seasons makes it difficult to remember what happened prior.

Thank goodness I started using closed captioning this season.  That helps a lot.  The Mr. and I decided we need to rewatch season 2, and then make a point to watch season 7 again right before the final season begins.

[DoctorAtomic]

I guess we're not going anywhere with Lord John and Claire still actually being married?

[taanja]

8 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I guess we're not going anywhere with Lord John and Claire still actually being married?

Yeah. I guess there are no laws or anything yet about bigamy?

There were actual witnesses to Claire and Lord John's wedding and then -- poof! it was like all the characters conveniently forgot.

Jaime asks - are we still married? Claire says - how can we NOT be?

Then Lord John calls Claire -  Mrs. Fraser (reiterating that she is not Lady Grey) and well... I guess that's that.

I guess all one had to do was declare -- "We are married!" or "We are no longer married!" and just by saying it out loud - that made it so????

Weird.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, the English did leave Philadelphia. There's no magistrate around to legally annul the marriage. However, they had the dinner party, and Claire was introduced as Lady Grey. If they run into anyone going back to the Ridge that was there, I can't imagine it wouldn't come up. As far as the Crown is concerned, they would be married. By now, you would have thought it would have come in conversation, say, in a scene with just the three of them alone maybe? 

 

[ch1]

I just assumed that once Jaime came back the marriage was just null and void. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I guess it depends if they signed an actual document. I would have thought that it would come up by now.