S04.E06: The Primary Source

[shura]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Saying "it's just a show, it just happened because the writers want it to" divorces you from that willing suspension of disbelief. 

[…]

If you just want to hand-wave all logic as a writer's prerogative to do whatever the hell they want, I don't really understand why you would even want to watch the show or care about it.

There is more to it.  Accepting this as a valid argument makes it pointless for us to come here and discuss the characters, what they did and why, what it means and how it made us feel.  The answer to all of this is “well, they don’t exist, it’s just something written for our entertainment, there is no need to think about it.”  What are we all doing here then?

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was shocked that they didn't put the stone back, but maybe they are setting it up for a "theft discovery" plot later? I don't quite know how they'd be discovered-- maybe the place has security cameras? It just seemed like (1) gratuitously sloppy, and (2) notably camera-highlighted. 

I noticed that, too. I rewatched the episode last night and it hit me, the way Isaac was so insistent that he wrote down a lot more about his life and the war...maybe he did indeed do so, but just not in his diary? Maybe a lot of that kind of information was in letters he wrote home to Beatrice or his family, or sitting somewhere where he held one of his many jobs (he was an attorney when alive, after all, so maybe some of that stuff is stored away with whatever work he did in that capacity, for instance), or something of that sort. And maybe they'll stumble upon those records or letters or whatever some other way at some point down the line, whether they're buried somewhere else at Fort Ticonderoga or at some other site entirely. 

[PaulE]

On 12/7/2024 at 5:02 PM, shura said:

On 12/7/2024 at 4:50 PM, Annber03 said:

I think they tend to swing back and forth with those kinds of feelings - one minute they'll be eager to leave, for the reasons you note, and then the next they'll have a thought of, "But maybe I'm not ready to go/don't want to go just yet...". 

That is probably true.  Yes, this is eternity, but it’s a known and reasonably enjoyable one.  Being sucked off may very well mean transitioning to another eternity, one that they don’t actually know anything about.  Who is to say that it’s not going to be all emails and Zooms that should have been emails, too?

I think that, on the surface, they all want to leave because of the reasons some of you have given--frustration at not being able to interact with the world as they used to, boredom, etc.  But if they really examined their feelings, I think they'd be more hesitant, not so much because of fear of the unknown, but because they've become family.  Remember, when Nigel went back to the shed he said he'd grown to think of the other mansion ghosts as family, and he was there only a short while.  So think of how it must be for the others, who've been with each other for decades and centuries.  Even though they annoy one other, they'd miss not being in each other's lives (such as they are).  Hetty is the most vocal about wanting to "escape" and move on, but methinks the lady doth protest too much.  

Oh, and on another point, I absolutely agree with those who were annoyed about Jay sitting in the back seat of the car.  Really?  Seriously??  Pete, you can't even drive anymore, so get in the back!

Edited December 8 by PaulE

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I think that, on the surface, they all want to leave because of the reasons some of you have given--frustration at not being able to interact with the world as they used to, boredom, etc.  But if they really examined their feelings, I think they'd be more hesitant, not so much because of fear of the unknown, but because they've become family.  Remember, when Nigel went back to the shed he said he'd grown to think of the other mansion ghosts as family, and he was there only a short while.  So think of how it must be for the others, who've been with each other for decades and centuries.  Even though they annoy one other, they'd miss not being in each other's lives (such as they are).  Hetty is the most vocal about wanting to "escape" and move on, but methinks the lady doth protest too much.  

The writers have done a good job of using the ghosts' attitudes about being "sucked off" as a comedic mirror metaphor for viewers' attitudes towards death.

 

6 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Oh, and on another point, I absolutely agree with those who were annoyed about Jay sitting in the back seat of the car.  Really?  Seriously??  Pete, you can't even drive anymore, so get in the back!

Pete riding in the front both ways seemed like a rather pointed reveal for a 22 minute show. Maybe this will feed into an impending sea change for Pete's attitudinal adjustment.
OTOH, sitting in the front give Pete a chance to see a bit more, and he's only been free-ranging for a short time, so maybe that's all there is to it.

[shura]

15 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Oh, and on another point, I absolutely agree with those who were annoyed about Jay sitting in the back seat of the car.  Really?  Seriously??  Pete, you can't even drive anymore, so get in the back!

Jay is just too nice.  I would be like, Pete, my friend, you know we can occupy the same space, right?  You are not Isaac or Flower, you’ll be the only one to suffer if we do that.  So I will be sitting in the front and you sit wherever works for you.  

[Annber03]

18 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I think that, on the surface, they all want to leave because of the reasons some of you have given--frustration at not being able to interact with the world as they used to, boredom, etc.  But if they really examined their feelings, I think they'd be more hesitant, not so much because of fear of the unknown, but because they've become family.  Remember, when Nigel went back to the shed he said he'd grown to think of the other mansion ghosts as family, and he was there only a short while.  So think of how it must be for the others, who've been with each other for decades and centuries.  Even though they annoy one other, they'd miss not being in each other's lives (such as they are).  Hetty is the most vocal about wanting to "escape" and move on, but methinks the lady doth protest too much.  

YES. This. This is what I meant with that theory. And I stand by that as the big reason they're still here. 

(Mind, even if that is the case, just because they don't WANT to leave, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, because the show's also implied that getting sucked off is one of those things you don't really have any control or say over, it just...happens at random. But, yeah, I do think, on a personal level, they don't want to leave as much as they often claim they do.)

Course, there's also the out of show reason that none of these characters will ever get sucked off unless it either happens in the series finale or one of the actors ever were to decide to leave for good for one reason or another, but that's a whole other topic :p. 

[PaulE]

53 minutes ago, shura said:

Jay is just too nice.  I would be like, Pete, my friend, you know we can occupy the same space, right?  You are not Isaac or Flower, you’ll be the only one to suffer if we do that.  So I will be sitting in the front and you sit wherever works for you.

Amen!  Of course, Jay, as you say, is just too nice to actually say that, at least to his pal Pete (he'd probably have no trouble threatening Trevor or Hetty).  In fact, now that I think of it, he might have offered to let Pete sit in the front for all we know.  And, honestly, despite Pete's more obnoxious side that we've seen this season, I don't think he'd ever want to jeopardize his relationship with Jay by giving him a hard time about sitting up front.  But, yeah, Jay is TOO nice.

[mojito]

2 hours ago, shura said:

There is more to it.  Accepting this as a valid argument makes it pointless for us to come here and discuss the characters, what they did and why, what it means and how it made us feel.  The answer to all of this is “well, they don’t exist, it’s just something written for our entertainment, there is no need to think about it.”  What are we all doing here then?

I like to read the funny comments some people make. At the same time, I'm a bit surprised at all the in-depth discussions I see here about ghost logic. 

When they decided to go the fiction route with Isaac's story, I immediately thought that this was an opportunity for Hetty and Sass to write an account of Isaac's "secret" life a la Walter Mitty. Plenty of opportunity for illicit sexual encounters and soap opera-like drama. Completely their cup of tea.

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, mojito said:

I like to read the funny comments some people make. At the same time, I'm a bit surprised at all the in-depth discussions I see here about ghost logic. 

When they decided to go the fiction route with Isaac's story, I immediately thought that this was an opportunity for Hetty and Sass to write an account of Isaac's "secret" life a la Walter Mitty. Plenty of opportunity for illicit sexual encounters and soap opera-like drama. Completely their cup of tea.

I'm not familiar with Walter Mitty (off to Wiki now!) but I LOVE that idea :D. That'd be awesome. And Isaac would no doubt have opinions on whatever they wrote about him, too :p. 

I like the discussion about ghost logic and whatnot here. At the end of the day I agree that it's a fun sitcom and we're probably thinking about this stuff far more deeply than the writers much of the time, but still, it does make for interesting discussion. And the writers have talked about how they enjoy hearing fans' speculation and theories and so on in regards to all the worldbuilding, and the way fans will notice these little details. There's also been interviews with the cast where it's clear they put a lot of thought into stuff relating to their characters and ghost lore in general and so on as well. 

So yeah. I think it's neat that this show can allow for and provide this kind of in depth conversation.

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

YES. This. This is what I meant with that theory. And I stand by that as the big reason they're still here. 

(Mind, even if that is the case, just because they don't WANT to leave, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, because the show's also implied that getting sucked off is one of those things you don't really have any control or say over, it just...happens at random. But, yeah, I do think, on a personal level, they don't want to leave as much as they often claim they do.)

Course, there's also the out of show reason that none of these characters will ever get sucked off unless it either happens in the series finale or one of the actors ever were to decide to leave for good for one reason or another, but that's a whole other topic :p. 

My dream ending for the series would be the house ghosts ascending at the same time and Sam discovering new ghosts. It would be like the ending to Charlotte's Web.

[PaulE]

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I like the discussion about ghost logic and whatnot here. At the end of the day I agree that it's a fun sitcom and we're probably thinking about this stuff far more deeply than the writers much of the time, but still, it does make for interesting discussion. And the writers have talked about how they enjoy hearing fans' speculation and theories and so on in regards to all the worldbuilding, and the way fans will notice these little details. There's also been interviews with the cast where it's clear they put a lot of thought into stuff relating to their characters and ghost lore in general and so on as well. 

So yeah. I think it's neat that this show can allow for and provide this kind of in depth conversation.

I often think to myself, "Why am I obsessing about these things going on in a fictional universe?" but there's just something satisfying about all the analyses and exchanges of opinion that I can't put my finger on.  Obviously we all enjoy it or we wouldn't be here, but I know there are others who wouldn't waste a second on any of this.  To each their own.

So if we're a bit looney at least we're all in the same psych ward.

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was shocked that they didn't put the stone back, but maybe they are setting it up for a "theft discovery" plot later?

I think that Pete yelled that the tour group was headed their way, so they all fled the scene rather quickly.  Correct me if I'm wrong on that, please!

42 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I often think to myself, "Why am I obsessing about these things going on in a fictional universe?" but there's just something satisfying about all the analyses and exchanges of opinion that I can't put my finger on. 

Exactly!  My life is rather quiet & boring, so being able to chat with you fine folks is a highlight of my day!  Thanks for the company!!  🥰

[kathyk2]

Talking about tv shows is like discussing sports which I also do. There is nothing wrong with a group of people discussing a common interest. I used to belong to a Harry Potter fan group before Yahoo eliminated their groups. Today is Utkarash's birthday. It might be fun to have the ghosts celebrate a birthday rather than the day they died.

[Annber03]

40 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Today is Utkarash's birthday. It might be fun to have the ghosts celebrate a birthday rather than the day they died.

I've wondered sometimes if the show would ever touch on that aspect of the ghosts' lives somehow. Maybe Sam or Jay celebrating their respective birthdays has the ghosts reminiscing about memorable birthdays of their own, for better or worse. Or maybe in learning more about the ghosts' pasts we get, if not their exact birthdates, at least the general time of year they were born, or things of that sort. It'd be an interesting part of their pasts to explore a bit. 

[Skooma]

5 hours ago, shura said:

There is more to it.  Accepting this as a valid argument makes it pointless for us to come here and discuss the characters, what they did and why, what it means and how it made us feel.  The answer to all of this is “well, they don’t exist, it’s just something written for our entertainment, there is no need to think about it.”  What are we all doing here then?

I thought we are were discussing a TV show we all enjoy.  What scenes we liked in an episode and why.  How an actor used a turn of phrase to best advantage.  What the writers cooked up to move a storyline forward. 

Not what happened to a non-existent dog after a fictional character became a ghost and that was only used as a plot device to flesh out said ghost.  I just can't get into the fan fiction stuff of what happens when the TV set is turned off at all.  TV show itself, yes.  🤷‍♂️

[Annber03]

Eh, that's how fans tend to discuss shows (or movies, or books) online in general. Going beyond what happened in the episode and speculating and theorizing and imagining "what if" scenarios and whatnot. Totally fine if that's not one's thing, but for many fans it's a fun little way to enhance their enjoyment of something. 

[shura]

10 hours ago, Skooma said:

I thought we are were discussing a TV show we all enjoy.  What scenes we liked in an episode and why.  How an actor used a turn of phrase to best advantage.  What the writers cooked up to move a storyline forward. 

Not what happened to a non-existent dog after a fictional character became a ghost and that was only used as a plot device to flesh out said ghost.  I just can't get into the fan fiction stuff of what happens when the TV set is turned off at all.  TV show itself, yes.  🤷‍♂️

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most people limit themselves to just that.  We make comments and observations, to which it's just not relevant that this is simply a TV show that someone wrote.  If someone wants to discuss what would happen to this dog in a hypothetical world that looks like the world of the show, what difference does it make that this world is not real?  I am not interested in discussing the dog, but I appreciate that someone brought up the thought.  Why not?  It's all good.

[chaifan]

10 hours ago, Skooma said:

I just can't get into the fan fiction stuff of what happens when the TV set is turned off at all.  TV show itself, yes.

I'm with you on this.  My comments (both online and in real life) are probably 80%+ about the writing.  My pet peeve is consistency, both with characters and story arcs, second is line is having smart characters do stupid things just to drive a plot.  So, for this episode, I'm irked that in 3 1/2 seasons we've never once seen little shafts of light appear when Sam has been outside, but now we learn animals get sucked off.  Or, wanting me to believe Sam & Jay know so little about old documents that they think they can fool an authenticator with Jay's calligraphy pen.  My mind will first go to "really? the writers couldn't have come up with a better plot?  Here's my idea..."

I really can't get into the "oooh, Jay's gonna be so mad when the ghosts rat him out to Sam",  unless we actually see Jay getting mad.  Sometimes I'll come up with my own "fanwank" to fill in gaps so storylines make sense.  Like Trevor's dog - I just assume he had a responsible pet sitter that would keep checking in until they got an "I'm home!" from Trevor.  Like I do when I pet sit for friends, or they do for me.  Other times I just handwave it away, and just enjoy the show.  Like the complete absence of Carol this season.

I do enjoy the "wouldn't it be fun if they did X" types of discussions, alternate plots, etc.  But yeah, I just can't really get worked up about a fictional dog of a fictional character.  

I guess we're all here for different reasons, so I just roll with it.  But yeah, the concern about Trevor's dog in these comments has made me laugh a bit.

Edited to add:  What bothers me about the dog thing is that the writers should have anticipated this, and put in a simple one liner that would put viewers at ease.  That's a writing quibble. 

Edited December 9 by chaifan

[tennisgurl]

That was a fun episode, Isaac's story being made into historical fiction seems like a pretty good call considering the lack of sources outside of a ghost, although the twist where Isaac's a vampire is really what makes it art. 

Awwww the ghost snail got to give Trever closure about his dog, although I really am curious about why that snail was a ghost in the first place, what went on in his snail life that led to him becoming a ghost snail? 

A lot of continuity in this one, a Carole mention, Isaac's feud with the masons, Thor eating his best squirrel friend, Hetty's son killing Alberta, Trever's obituary picture, Sass's storytelling power...

Edited December 9 by tennisgurl

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm irked that in 3 1/2 seasons we've never once seen little shafts of light appear when Sam has been outside, but now we learn animals get sucked off. 

How often do you think animals die on this property? I've lived in my house for 18 years and have only found a couple of dead squirrels in my yard. I don't see any reason why animals would just be dropping like flies left and right on the Woodstone property, or why Sam would necessarily be in the right spot to see it happen. Especially if it's not a snail and it goes up quick.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

That was a fun episode, Isaac's story being made into historical fiction seems like a pretty good call considering the lack of sources outside of a ghost, although the twist where Isaac's a vampire is really what makes it art

Since Isaac didn't keep a journal about his wartime activities, I wonder just how true his tales of his glory days are.  I think Nigel corrected him a few times about certain events. 

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Awwww the ghost snail got to give Trever closure about his dog, although I really am curious about why that snail was a ghost in the first place, what went on in his snail life that led to him becoming a ghost snail? 

Alberta was funny when she said to the snail "you must've been one bad snail!"  It's hard to say why it didn't ascend once it died.  Could it have resisted the light because it didn't understand?  Maybe its sole mission was to help Trevor. Oh well, it was a good storyline for Trevor, so I'm glad that he got some closure about his beloved dog.  

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

How often do you think animals die on this property?

Every bug that hits a windshield while driving, every spider that you smash in a kitchen or bathroom, every ant or worm you step on outside...  I see dead mice or small birds not infrequently in my own yard or while on walks.  But normally small animals like this will get picked up/apart by other animals, so they don't stick around long.  Nature has it's own cleaning system set up that way.  

Woodstone is a huge piece of property.  We've seen that the sucked off beams are easily visible at night.  Little wild critters like deer mice have very short life spans, there would be mouse deaths almost daily on a large property like that.  It would just make sense if animals were being sucked off that Sam would be seeing random beams on a regular basis.  And that would be something the show could have some fun with.

It just seemed like this concept of animals being ghosts and getting sucked off came out of nowhere.  The writers could have easily introduced it earlier this season with just a few seconds bit about Sam trying to pet a dog that turned out to be a ghost dog, or trying to catch a ghost mouse, or something like that.  That's the continuity that we've seen before, and that I expect from this show.  

Honestly, though, I just don't think the writing has been as good this season, overall.  The first few episodes didn't hit for me, Pete's just weird, things like this...  Or maybe I'm just cranky and need chocolate... 

 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

How often do you think animals die on this property? I've lived in my house for 18 years and have only found a couple of dead squirrels in my yard. I don't see any reason why animals would just be dropping like flies left and right on the Woodstone property, or why Sam would necessarily be in the right spot to see it happen. Especially if it's not a snail and it goes up quick.

2 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Every bug that hits a windshield while driving, every spider that you smash in a kitchen or bathroom, every ant or worm you step on outside...

Now I want to have an episode in which Sam goes to the city to a place that has a cockroach problem. She would likely say something like, "Oh. I've never seen indoor fireflies before," which would either be brushed off or get her a psych eval or a drug test.

 

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Since Isaac didn't keep a journal about his wartime activities, I wonder just how true his tales of his glory days are.  I think Nigel corrected him a few times about certain events. 

That moment in "Dumb Deaths" when Isaac's talking about the conflicts that led up to the Revolutionary War and Nigel contradicting every single point he made :p. 

[possibilities]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really am curious about why that snail was a ghost in the first place, what went on in his snail life that led to him becoming a ghost snail? 

I have decided it was a bodhisatva snail, who specifically stayed around as a ghost to aid Trevor in his grieving.

[PaulE]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

10 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Since Isaac didn't keep a journal about his wartime activities, I wonder just how true his tales of his glory days are.  I think Nigel corrected him a few times about certain events. 

That moment in "Dumb Deaths" when Isaac's talking about the conflicts that led up to the Revolutionary War and Nigel contradicting every single point he made :p. 

Though to be fair to Isaac, wasn't some of that simply American vs. British points of view about the Stamp Act and so forth?  Pretentious blowhard though Isaac might be, he actually is a genuine patriot (so is Nigel, for that matter, which is why they butt heads so often).  

[Annber03]

This is true, too! Good point :D. And for as frustrated as they often get with each other when debating this stuff, it's also clear that's something they can respect about each other. 

[Bastet]

Just now, PaulE said:

Though to be fair to Isaac, wasn't some of that simply American vs. British points of view about the Stamp Act and so forth?

Absolutely.  Isaac's delusions of grandeur are a separate issue; those disagreements with Nigel weren't about fact checking in any objective sense, just two people on opposite sides of a war arguing their version of events which precipitated/fueled that war.

[Skooma]

17 hours ago, PaulE said:

Though to be fair to Isaac, wasn't some of that simply American vs. British points of view about the Stamp Act and so forth?  Pretentious blowhard though Isaac might be, he actually is a genuine patriot (so is Nigel, for that matter, which is why they butt heads so often).  

Yeah he was at the Boston Tea Party too.  Just not THE one by the docks.  Lol.  He was pro Patriot and not a Tory but he was also not that truthful or even that active either.

Sam looked him up on the internet early on and all it said about him was that he surrendered Fort Ticonderoga to the British then died of dysentery some time later.

Edited December 10 by Skooma

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

Isaac's delusions of grandeur are a separate issue; those disagreements with Nigel weren't about fact checking in any objective sense, just two people on opposite sides of a war arguing their version of events which precipitated/fueled that war.

The disconnects in this episode between Isaac's memories and the realities as shown in the one "Primary Source" uncovered are symbolic, IMO, of much history recorded in books in essay form. Although the term "alternative facts" can be upsetting when applied to obvious and known fallacies, I suspect the book that Sam almost got published might have been riddled with them, based mostly on Isaac's delusions of grandeur.

I'm glad Isaac was happy to switch to the vampire version, because the truth would have been too painful for him or probably any soldier of any war, and not a reveal conducive to a light comedy TV show. And I'm glad our little comedy show full of heart continues to rehabilitate its characters into more loveable ghosts
— which arguably fits with the discussion upthread as to why these ghosts are in a sort of purgatory.

[iMonrey]

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

Every bug that hits a windshield while driving, every spider that you smash in a kitchen or bathroom, every ant or worm you step on outside...  I see dead mice or small birds not infrequently in my own yard or while on walks. 

I like to think bugs don't have souls. 

I take your point, but if animals are dying outside in the daylight it's possible the beam of light isn't really noticeable unless you're right next to it. And if it's happening at night, Sam wouldn't see it. 

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I like to think bugs don't have souls.

I wish I could think that way, but it's impossible for me to not personify them when I squash them (I'm one of those snowflakes who gets itchy welts from non-poisonous nippers).

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

if animals are dying outside in the daylight it's possible the beam of light isn't really noticeable unless you're right next to it.

Good point!

[possibilities]

I write most days, and if anybody read it, it would be sooooo boring. It's where I dump all my random thoughts, it's not a narrative of anything interesting. I tried re-reading a year's worth at the end of every year for a while, and it was SO BORING. Even on years where I thought I'd had an interesting year, the things I was writing about were not interesting.

I imagine that whoever pitched this story for the show might also be a similar type of journaler. 

If I have anything interesting to say, I can talk to someone else about it, or write something for pubic consumption. But all the boring junk floating around my brain is what I write down for myself so it's not rattling around in there forever with no outlet.

So, to me, the sandwich talk was funny. It was the kind of funny that makes my own incredibly boring and repetitive journaling less embarrassing.

[proserpina65]

On 12/7/2024 at 1:16 PM, Skooma said:

It's just a comedy show.  A light, popular TV entertainment.  Not a theological or philosophical seminar we are watching. 

That doesn't mean we can't want logical explanations for why things happen.

 

[proserpina65]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:32 PM, Skooma said:

I thought we are were discussing a TV show we all enjoy.  What scenes we liked in an episode and why.  How an actor used a turn of phrase to best advantage.  What the writers cooked up to move a storyline forward. 

Not what happened to a non-existent dog after a fictional character became a ghost and that was only used as a plot device to flesh out said ghost.  I just can't get into the fan fiction stuff of what happens when the TV set is turned off at all.  TV show itself, yes.  🤷‍♂️

People are allowed to talk about whatever aspects of a particular episode catch their attention.  Some of us want the show to have some internal logic - which it appears to have for the most part - so eventually wanting a vaguely believable reason for someone to be sucked off isn't crazy.  Perhaps if those comments are not of interest to you, you could scroll past them.

 

[Skooma]

46 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

People are allowed to talk about whatever aspects of a particular episode catch their attention.  Some of us want the show to have some internal logic - which it appears to have for the most part - so eventually wanting a vaguely believable reason for someone to be sucked off isn't crazy.  Perhaps if those comments are not of interest to you, you could scroll past them.

And I have the right to reply to a person that challenged me to my pov and that I was looking at things the wrong way.  I said to each their own yet I'm still suppose to not have the right to my opinion?

[Orcinus orca]

@Skooma there is a handy feature on Primetimer.  Saves you from getting booted off when making any "board on board" comments.

 

Edited December 11 by Orcinus orca

[PaulE]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I write most days, and if anybody read it, it would be sooooo boring. It's where I dump all my random thoughts, it's not a narrative of anything interesting. I tried re-reading a year's worth at the end of every year for a while, and it was SO BORING. Even on years where I thought I'd had an interesting year, the things I was writing about were not interesting.

I kept a daily diary for several decades (no longer, alas) and, like you, I included a lot of personal thoughts that might only be interesting if I were famous, which I'm not.  (I, too, reread some of those recently and it was like watching paint dry, so I understand what you mean.) But I also did write about things going on in the world, and in some cases there were fairly descriptive accounts of events such as the Bicentennial celebrations, Charles and Diana's wedding, my travel experiences, and 9/11.  And if you read the diary entries of famous people of the past, such as Queen Victoria or Chips Channon or Noel Coward, most of them also seem to do both.  I just think that if you're living through a revolution and you're keeping a diary, you'd probably devote some of your writing to those experiences--not necessarily in a narrative, since you wouldn't always have the time to do so in the middle of a combat zone--but something.  Isaac's diary might actually have had significant value if he'd provided eye-witness accounts of battles, Washington's demeanor, etc.  But this guy, who wanted so much to leave his imprint in history, completely blew it.

[Annber03]

And that is one reason of many why I wonder if we'll learn that anything he did write on those topics is on some other sort of document. I could see him being the sort to just kind of...stash random papers and letters and whatnot somewhere and not really being sure what he wrote down where and when. Was it in the diary, or a letter, or just scribbled on some random scrap of paper? Who knows :p? I too used to keep journals when I was younger, and I also wrote stuff on random sheets of paper that all just got jumbled together after a time, so I would totally get this. Even with the journals I have, I'll be damned if I can remember exactly what I wrote in each specific one. 

[Bastet]

I doubt they plan to get back into the reality of Isaac's life.  That Isaac didn't do much of anything other than surrender a fort and then shit himself to death has been mined for four seasons, and I think finding his own diary failing to show otherwise is the intended conclusion of the biographical book portion of this ongoing storyline, and now they'll shift to the historical fiction vampire version Sam will be working on as the source of humor, with storyteller Sass no doubt contributing ideas that will make Isaac crazy.  This second phase will make it realistic that the project keeps dragging on without reaching the publication stage, since now Sam has to write a different book.

[Annber03]

I'm not even thinking in terms of the book, I agree that part of things is probably settled and whatnot. That was more just my main theory as to why some of his memories and recollections wouldn't have been in his diary. 

But even if the book aspect of things is settled and they're going the route they are with that, if they do explore more of his personal life somewhere down the line, that'd be a good way for them to potentially revela something else about him along the way 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

I doubt they plan to get back into the reality of Isaac's life.  That Isaac didn't do much of anything other than surrender a fort and then shit himself to death has been mined for four seasons, and I think finding his own diary failing to show otherwise is the intended conclusion of the biographical book portion of this ongoing storyline, and now they'll shift to the historical fiction vampire version Sam will be working on as the source of humor, with storyteller Sass no doubt contributing ideas that will make Isaac crazy.  This second phase will make it realistic that the project keeps dragging on without reaching the publication stage, since now Sam has to write a different book.

Maybe in the series' penultimate episode and finale Sam's vampire book deal will be finalized with a contract that will relieve them of much of their financial stress in maintaining an old structure. 
I can clearly imagine Sam showing Jay and the ghosts a mockup of the jacket with an illustration that clearly shows a character resembling Rose McIver's iZombie character — perhaps Captain Isaac Higgentooth's love interest, LOL.
Or his mother?
Ooo! And maybe some jacket mock-ups for her future proposed books in the series featuring zombie versions of the 7 other main ghosts.🥰

But please no TV tie-in zombie novels for the Ghosts series IRL.🙅‍♀️

Edited December 11 by shapeshifter

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

I doubt they plan to get back into the reality of Isaac's life.  That Isaac didn't do much of anything other than surrender a fort and then shit himself to death has been mined for four seasons, and I think finding his own diary failing to show otherwise is the intended conclusion of the biographical book portion of this ongoing storyline, and now they'll shift to the historical fiction vampire version Sam will be working on as the source of humor, with storyteller Sass no doubt contributing ideas that will make Isaac crazy.  This second phase will make it realistic that the project keeps dragging on without reaching the publication stage, since now Sam has to write a different book.

Yeah, I can't imagine the original version would have sold well. The only reason a publisher picked it up is because they were fooled into thinking another publisher was interested in it. 

[nora1992]

On 12/6/2024 at 5:52 PM, Chit Chat said:

In regard to Bucky, since Trevor's parents stayed at the mansion after learning of his death there, maybe Sam could come up with some excuse to call one of them and ask about the dog.  She could say she's doing some kind of small tribute to him as part of the hotel's history and then ask about the dog in the obituary photo.  If it's news that would upset Trevor, she wouldn't have to tell him, but if it's something that would give him closure, that would be nice.  

Didn’t Trevor use Enron as one of his stock tips?  That bankruptcy was 20+ years ago.  How long do dogs live?

[kathyk2]

On 12/10/2024 at 8:16 AM, Skooma said:

Yeah he was at the Boston Tea Party too.  Just not THE one by the docks.  Lol.  He was pro Patriot and not a Tory but he was also not that truthful or even that active either.

Sam looked him up on the internet early on and all it said about him was that he surrendered Fort Ticonderoga to the British then died of dysentery some time later.

Why is Isaac so dumb this season? He's always had a big ego but he's been smarter than this.

[ams1001]

38 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

Didn’t Trevor use Enron as one of his stock tips?  That bankruptcy was 20+ years ago.  How long do dogs live?

Depends on the breed (in general, smaller breeds tend to live longer). Looks like his dog was a Lab; they live 10-12 years, on average.

The record for the oldest is 31 years (a dog in Portugal who died in 2023, though apparently there's some dispute about whether he was really that old); previous record is 29.

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, nora1992 said:

 How long do dogs live?

I'd assume that the dog died long ago, but my point was that maybe Sam could ask one of his parents about the picture of Trevor & Bucky and find out who kept Bucky after Trevor died, etc.

We've had big dogs, and they usually lived 'til 11-12 yrs old.  However, we had a 100-pound dog that was just shy of 15 when he died, and he was healthy until the very end.  We were pleasantly surprised by his life span.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

Why is Isaac so dumb this season? He's always had a big ego but he's been smarter than this.

Eh, I wouldn't say he's dumb. I think a lot of this is him trying to channel any frustrations and feelings he's got about certain other things and issues going on in his little world right now into this particular situation, or his awkward attempts to "be a better person". The more he's struggling to know how to deal with something big that's happening to him, the more his ego balloons out of control. 

That, and this is just how the ghosts in general tend to be. They take one big step forward in learning something and improving themselves, only to take three steps back :p. It's a slow learning process, LOL. 

[Ilovepie]

People over here questioning the logic of escarghost and the new ink in the diary, meanwhile I am questioning how they rolled up to the fort and immediately found a diary that had been barely buried under a stone for 250 years and not discovered before this moment? 😂

And I second that Jay is too nice. All of the ghosts are kind of mean to him (tattling on him about the Sonic) even though he treats them like they are alive most of the time when he can't even see them. If I was Jay I would have just sat in the front seat. If Pete didn't like it, he could move. Pete needs to be taken down a notch or ten.  I hope he is the first to lose his ghost power. 

[Driad]

53 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I am questioning how they rolled up to the fort and immediately found a diary that had been barely buried under a stone for 250 years and not discovered before this moment?

Mischievous history students who hide old-looking documents all over the place, so they can laugh later when people base scholarly articles on them?  Was Isaac's name in the diary?  He did not seem to remember what he had written.