S02.E10 Father Christmas (2nd season finale)

[astrohip]

We've made it to the end of the second season. I thought there was a significant improvement in the stories in the back half of S2. Fingers crossed we get an S3.

 

As Christmas approaches, Frasier enlists the entire gang to help Alan reunite with his estranged daughter and meet his new grandchild.

[juno]

1 hour ago, astrohip said:

We've made it to the end of the second season. I thought there was a significant improvement in the stories in the back half of S2. Fingers crossed we get an S3.

 

As Christmas approaches, Frasier enlists the entire gang to help Alan reunite with his estranged daughter and meet his new grandchild.

Nothing to see

Edited November 14 by juno

[Panopticon]

I do agree that we saw some real improvement this season and there were several episodes I really liked. This particular episode, though, was at best mixed. I was charmed by Freddy embracing his inner meddler, and Alan’s big speech to Frasier was beautifully delivered.

But I was distracted by how horrible I felt for David. Making him smash his gingerbread village instead of moving it into another room just wasn’t funny. Can’t any of David’s family feel anything but contempt for him? Especially since I saw more Niles and Daphne in him this episode than I ever have before.

[MaryMitch]

I agree that David's village was wonderful and it's a crime that they destroyed it.

Even though they telephoned the ending - who didn't know who was on the other side of the door? - I still burst into tears when Nora brought her baby to see her Granddaddy Alan. 

[Bumblebee84047]

I don’t know why Freddy saying “I shouldn’t be doing this, I’m half Jewish” made me laugh so damn hard, but here we are.

[Sarah 103]

I like that Holly is now officially part of the group whether she realizes it or not. I like that Frasier is known in universe for parties that go horribly wrong. 

[Avabelle]

I wish that as a season finale this episode had been stronger. Especially as the season as a whole has been a lot better than season one. 
 

They’ve finally started hinting at Eve/Freddy. To be honest I thought he had more chemistry with Alan’s daughter. He has none with Roz’s daughter either.

If they get another season they need to rehab David’s character. I don’t think the actor is great but I don’t know that a brilliant actor could rise above the shitty writing.

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

If they get another season they need to rehab David’s character. I don’t think the actor is great but I don’t know that a brilliant actor could rise above the shitty writing.

David is one of the biggest disappoints of this series. What the writers should have done before they wrote a word of dialogue for him was actually take 5-15 minutes to think about what someone who was raised by Niles and Daphne would be like. What interests, personality traits or characteristics from each parent would he have picked up over the years?

If Freddie ended up being more similar to Martin, it would have been great to see David take after Hester. 

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

Even though they telephoned the ending - who didn't know who was on the other side of the door? - I still burst into tears when Nora brought her baby to see her Granddaddy Alan. 

Right??!? Unfair show!😭😭🥹🥲

 

23 hours ago, Panopticon said:

I was distracted by how horrible I felt for David. Making him smash his gingerbread village instead of moving it into another room just wasn’t funny. Can’t any of David’s family feel anything but contempt for him?

3 hours ago, Avabelle said:

If they get another season they need to rehab David’s character. I don’t think the actor is great but I don’t know that a brilliant actor could rise above the shitty writing.

Maybe they were telegraphing having David move off screen to Europe or California if there's a 3rd season?

[opus]

On 11/14/2024 at 7:39 PM, MaryMitch said:

I agree that David's village was wonderful and it's a crime that they destroyed it.

That’s what I was thinking. You can’t at least just take it over to Eve’s place? No “comedy” in that, I guess.

[Sarah 103]

51 minutes ago, opus said:

That’s what I was thinking. You can’t at least just take it over to Eve’s place? No “comedy” in that, I guess.

Oh there's totally comedy in that. David and whoever is helping them trying to move it without destroying it has serious comedy potential. Either it's Ralph Kramden getting hot drinks at the concession stand at the roller rink while wearing roller skates, or it's a version of "Step one, step two" from the pilot of Full House. 

[NeenerNeener]

16 hours ago, Avabelle said:

They’ve finally started hinting at Eve/Freddy.

Yeah, I thought I saw Eve giving Alice some stink eye when they were sitting on the couch with Freddie. Now we need to see Freddie respond in kind when Eve has a date.

In the first episode with Holly I figured she was going to be a love interest for Frasier. You don't hire Patricia Heaton for a one-off.

For me, this Christmas episode was decent, but not as funny as last year, with the exception of David's gingerbread village. That gag was right up there with the 24 Christmas trees and one chair.

Edited November 16 by NeenerNeener

[ukgirl71]

It hit me hard that Nick Lyndhurst will never have the chance to see a grandchild in real life, the way Alan did 😪  I know it’s just a tv show, but… 

[Annber03]

On 11/14/2024 at 6:39 PM, MaryMitch said:

I agree that David's village was wonderful and it's a crime that they destroyed it.

Even though they telephoned the ending - who didn't know who was on the other side of the door? - I still burst into tears when Nora brought her baby to see her Granddaddy Alan. 

Same. That and the moment when she told him off in no uncertain terms both brought tears to my eyes - her reaction upon seeing Alan initially, and the pain on his face after she left, broke my damn heart. Like you said, the ending wasn't a suprise, but it was made all the more touching as a result. The whole storyline was just wonderfully acted by Lyndhurst in general. 

I also absolutely love that Freddie was the one to reach out to Nora as he did, and could connect with her over how she felt about her father. Freddie was so fun this episode in general - he's very entertaining when drunk, LOL. But yeah. I liked him doing his part to help out, but in a little more low-key sort of way compared to Frasier's whole thing. 

Also liked how everyone, Holly included, got in on Frasier's scheme to get Alan and Nora to reunite. And yay for Olivia getting a nice gift....and not having to worry about Frasier seeing his credit card statements :p. 

I also agree with everyone in regards to David putting all that work into that gingerbread village only to tear it all down. At least get a picture of it or something, to show off his hard work and skill!

Look forward to seeing what a potential season 3 will bring for this show should we get one. 

[Avabelle]

9 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:

It hit me hard that Nick Lyndhurst will never have the chance to see a grandchild in real life, the way Alan did 😪  I know it’s just a tv show, but… 

I thought the same too. Heartbreaking 💔 

[Annber03]

I only just recently found that out about Lyndhurst and...yeah. That's awful. 

[Blakeston]

This was the first time I actually enjoyed the character of David.

I think a crucial part of what made Niles so funny was that he was snippy. David is similar to Niles in certain ways, but he's more like a sweet puppy dog than...well, I'll just say it, a bitch like Niles. Allowing David to be bitchy in this episode made him a lot funnier.

(And I get that he's supposed to be a cross between Niles and Daphne, so it makes sense for him to be nicer than Niles was, but unfortunately it really takes the comedic edge off the character.)

The Alan stuff was okay, but I don't think it was necessary to establish that Nora was mad at him for the exact thing that Frasier did to Freddy. (Down to the age she was when Alan left!) They built up the drama around this long enough that it seemed a little underwhelming.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This was the first time I actually enjoyed the character of David.

I think a crucial part of what made Niles so funny was that he was snippy. David is similar to Niles in certain ways, but he's more like a sweet puppy dog than...well, I'll just say it, a bitch like Niles. Allowing David to be bitchy in this episode made him a lot funnier.

(And I get that he's supposed to be a cross between Niles and Daphne, so it makes sense for him to be nicer than Niles was, but unfortunately it really takes the comedic edge off the character.)

That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of that before. It explains part of why the character doesn't work. 

[MissLucas]

I'm really glad I'm not the only one who was upset about David's gingerbread village plot. I hated that story line so much that the predictable rest of the episode just went 'meh'. Which is a shame because I have to admit the caper plot was great.

This is the second time in a row that the show makes fun of someone who does something nerdy out of love, than has it destroyed for cheap laughs. And to add injury to insult we got incredible food-waste. There was a toddler in neighboring apartment who might have enjoyed one of those houses and they could have donated the rest. I know it's all in the name of comedy but when comedy resorts to making characters look mean or stupid (or both) it just doesn't work for me anymore. 

And it's not the first time David was settled with such a plot. I really hope they change course for his character next season.

#Justice for dollhouses #Justice for gingerbread villages #Justice for David

(And on a more serious note - that must have been a heartbreaking episode for Lyndhurst to play. I had no idea about his personal life.)

Edited November 19 by MissLucas

[Chit Chat]

On 11/17/2024 at 4:38 PM, Annber03 said:

I also agree with everyone in regards to David putting all that work into that gingerbread village only to tear it all down. At least get a picture of it or something, to show off his hard work and skill!

They could've set it up in another room that was out of sight from the living room.  Even if they couldn't move all of it, they could've saved some of it.  What a waste!  

[Panopticon]

The more I think about the gingerbread resolution, the more I don’t get it. It’s classic physical comedy to try to move a fragile object from one place to another under ridiculous conditions. 
 

And since Alan and his daughter did end up reuniting, it would’ve been a nice payoff for Alan to appreciate all the detail David put into the gingerbread village after everyone else mocked it. That would have been a better holiday over-the-ending-credits episode tag than what we got. 

On 11/18/2024 at 6:00 PM, Blakeston said:

necessary to establish that Nora was mad at him for the exact thing that Frasier did to Freddy. (Down to the age she was when Alan left!) 

I assumed that that was Freddy  taking liberties with his own history so that Nora would see his point more easily. Because when it comes to what actually aired on Cheers and OG Frasier, Freddy was younger when Frasier went to Seattle than he claimed in this episode.

Edited November 21 by Panopticon

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Panopticon said:

The more I think about the gingerbread resolution, the more I don’t get it. It’s classic physical comedy to try to move a fragile object from one place to another under ridiculous conditions. 

Exactly. It's like they cut out the best part.

[Yeah No]

On 11/15/2024 at 9:46 AM, Bumblebee84047 said:

I don’t know why Freddy saying “I shouldn’t be doing this, I’m half Jewish” made me laugh so damn hard, but here we are.

I know that line was intended to be funny but there's no "half" about it. Freddy had a Bar Mitzvah so technically he's all Jewish in the eyes of Judaism and presumably would also be in his own. Unless he has since renounced his identity as one and is now only considering his DNA percentages. Also I wouldn't say that about anything I did based on being "half" anything. I'm half Italian but I wouldn't say I shouldn't be making meatballs on that account, lol. My dad was half Jewish although raised a Christian and he would never say he shouldn't be playing with a dredel because he was half Christian. So I was confused there and couldn't appreciate the joke.

BTW I recently rewatched the Freddy Bar Mitzvah episode and it was just as hysterically funny as I remembered it! Frasier was duped by Noel into making a speech in Klingon thinking it was Hebrew, lol.

23 hours ago, Panopticon said:

The more I think about the gingerbread resolution, the more I don’t get it. It’s classic physical comedy to try to move a fragile object from one place to another under ridiculous conditions. 

I know, me too. There were so many ways they could have made that funny by moving it and not throwing it away. It kind of ruined the rest of the episode for me. Although at the very end I thought I saw two of the women take a couple of the houses out of the kitchen that didn't look damaged. So that was confusing too. 

Speaking of confusing, I felt like this episode was confusing and all over the place in several ways, as have been some others. Something is not being handled too well by someone. The showrunner? The writers? The producers? All of the above?

Edited November 21 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Although at the very end I thought I saw two of the women take a couple of the houses out of the kitchen that didn't look damaged. So that was confusing too. 

Those were the 2 houses Eve and Ros (I think?) had brought, which looked fine to me, but were supposed to be inferior to Freddy's architectural masterpiece of confectionary. I'm glad you posted about the reappearance of the less-fancy gingerbread houses being another point of confusion, because I thought few viewers would know what was going on. The OG Frasier used to have a short end-scene after each episode, but the houses being brought back was not worthy of viewers' time, IMO.

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Speaking of confusing, I felt like this episode was confusing and all over the place in several ways, as have been some others. Something is not being handled too well by someone. The showrunner? The writers? The producers? All of the above?

Yeah, the gingerbread house bits seemed like they'd been assigned to an intern to produce — an intern who is going to find a different career. 
Or maybe someone who used to work on the old Frasier show was given the gingerbread parts to produce, and that person is no longer up to snuff.