Chit-Chat: The Feels

[peacheslatour]

Just now, JustHereForFood said:

I can't tell if this is supposed to be joke or not.

Irony is just about dead, isn't it?

[JustHereForFood]

6 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

 

That's communism, not socialism. 

Communism is where the government take everything and (allegedly) distribute it in accordance with people's needs.

Socialism is where the government takes a percentage and uses it for the benefit of everybody.  It's sort of like tithing, so I don't quite get why so many so called christians are against paying their share.

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

France has Democratic socialism. It's how everyone is able to go to college and people have state sponsored health care. I would love to see that type of socialism here.

That's not socialism, that's social democracy. Key word: democracy, AKA people can vote for those in charge and vote them out if they don't like them (and they usually do, hence the frequent changes between social democratic and right-wing governments).

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Irony is just about dead, isn't it?

I know education is underpayed in the US too, but I thought that something as significant as WW2 was still taught? Especially since many US soldiers fought and died in the war.

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

That's not socialism, that's social democracy. Key word: democracy, AKA people can vote for those in charge and vote them out if they don't like them (and they usually do, hence the frequent changes between social democratic and right-wing governments).

I know education is underpayed in the US too, but I thought that something as significant as WW2 was still taught? Especially since many US soldiers fought and died in the war.

France has Democratic socialism.  Read my post again.

[JustHereForFood]

6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

France has Democratic socialism.  Read my post again.

Democratic socialism =/= social democracy. In fact, democratic socialism is kind of an oxymoron, because socialism is by its core autocratic.

But I give up. 

[annzeepark914]

8 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Nope. That's why there are large segments of society that think WWII was about fighting socialism and not the Nazis/fascism.

Maybe it's time for Hollywood to create a movie about WWII. There are so many gripping stories (the French underground, code-breaking at Bletchley Park, parachute drops in Nazi held areas, concentration camps, etc). If it's not being taught in high schools, then feature some of today's popular stars to help draw an audience & teach young people what really happened from the late 1930s to mid-40s. 

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I know education is underpayed in the US too, but I thought that something as significant as WW2 was still taught? Especially since many US soldiers fought and died in the war.

It might still be taught, but it depends on how deeply they go into the details of what lead up to WW2 and the war itself, as well as everything that came after. 

Plus, see my comment a few pages back about how there are some groups in this country that are actively trying to limit what kids are allowed to learn about in this country, or who will omit aspects of things from history books that may not fit a "pro-America" mindset or which focus on individuals that aren't straight white men or so on and so forth. Sure, the U.S. fought on the Allied side in that war, but our country had its own questionable/awful actions during that war as well, so...(overseas fighting Hitler while actively putting Japanese people into internment camps here in the States, for instance). 

So even if kids are still learning about the war in and of itself, depending on what kinds of books they have/how up to date those books are/what kind of curriculum the school district has/etc., they may only learn the basics and bare bones at most. 

Edited November 24 by Annber03

[Soapy Goddess]

13 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

France has Democratic socialism. It's how everyone is able to go to college and people have state sponsored health care. I would love to see that type of socialism here.

And who do you think is going to pay for all the "free" stuff?

[tearknee]

 

26 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

And who do you think is going to pay for all the "free" stuff?

Someone else? ;)

Edited November 24 by tearknee

[Palimelon]

Quote

And who do you think is going to pay for all the "free" stuff?

The same way many things of that sort are paid for, taxes.

Quote

I can't tell if this is supposed to be joke or not.

If only it were.

Quote

Maybe it's time for Hollywood to create a movie about WWII. There are so many gripping stories (the French underground, code-breaking at Bletchley Park, parachute drops in Nazi held areas, concentration camps, etc). If it's not being taught in high schools, then feature some of today's popular stars to help draw an audience & teach young people what really happened from the late 1930s to mid-40s. 

But there have already been many movies about WWII. From older movies like The Diary of Anne Frank, Judgement at Nuremberg, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, Sophie's Choice, to newer movies like Oppenheimer, Inglorious B*stards, Jojo Rabbit, Dunkirk, The Zone of Interest, and so many TV movies and miniseries like The Tuskegee Airmen, Band of Brothers, and Holocaust. Plus so many more that others can add to the list.

I don't think the issue is not enough WWII content in pop culture, but that the way it's reaching younger people needs to be rethought. Maybe have "influencers" on Tiktok promote these movies, both older and new.

Edited November 24 by Palimelon

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

 

I don't think the issue is not enough WWII content  in pop culture, but that the way it's  reaching younger people needs to be rethought. Maybe have "influencers" on Tiktok promote these movies, both older and new.

Needing influencers to get people to pay attention to our and the world's history is a sad state of affairs. Society has definitely taken a wrong turn.

[Palimelon]

That may be, but it is what it is.

BookTok has helped many authors reach a wider audience, we may as well use that same platform for historical films as well.

Edited November 24 by Palimelon

[supposebly]

Maybe it would be better if there were more movies about the lead-up to the Third Reich.

So many of the big ones are about "beating the Germans heroically" instead of showing how Hitler was able to get to power in the first place. So many imply that this "wouldn't happen here".

[Yeah No]

On 11/22/2024 at 2:50 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Me three.  It's my safe place.  I need to talk about all of it and this is place has been where I'm able to do that and get feedback from all of you. So yes thank you Mods.

Maybe it's your safe place, but it sure hasn't been mine. I have felt that my words have been targeted, picked apart, twisted and dismissed in very nasty ways several times on this thread. It's largely why I have dropped out of the discussion. I don't need to feel like a punching bag. I was bullied as a kid and this is triggering me big time. I am a human being with feelings. I'm DEFINITELY not the enemy and don't deserve to be treated like one. Maybe we need a thread for Democrats that aren't at the very extreme left end of the political spectrum and don't see every issue in us/them/black and white terms.

And P.S., what gets me is I agree with the majority of the posts on this thread, especially yours. Ironic, isn't it?

[Anela]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

And who do you think is going to pay for all the "free" stuff?

When my parents were divorced, my single mother was able to take care of us in England, where we had free health care.  Every time we got sick (I got sick a lot), she didn’t have to worry about medical bills.  I could see a doctor, and get my medicine, just like that.  

I saw someone tweeting in response to another person talking about Denmark paying 40% in taxes.  This woman responded with the things she doesn’t have to worry about, because of where that 40% goes.  

Edited November 24 by Anela

[Yeah No]

On 11/22/2024 at 7:30 PM, Annber03 said:

On 11/22/2024 at 11:04 AM, partofme said:

I’m really happy your friend was okay, and I have nothing against any of the first responders, they are all heroes, I’m talking about Republican politicians, they created a really bad atmosphere in the US post 9/11, I lived in New York and there was no coming together in any real way.  

Yep. They were all too happy to use 9/11 for their own political gain ("Vote for me, 'cause we can't ever forget 9/11 and the terrorists will win if you don't vote for me/us!" And of course Giuliani and his "$9.11" fundraiser, 'cause, y'know, he was mayor on 9/11, just in case anyone forgot that)...

...and yet at the same time they were also dismissing New York City as not part of "real America". No, it was full of all those "liberal elites" whose values wouldn't possibly align with those of us here over in "real America", aka flyover country. They talked out of both sides of their mouths when it came to New York and 9/11 and were more than happy to stoke the flams. 

I agree it was the politicians, not the people. But I wasn't referring to politicians in my posts nor just New Yorkers either, just the people whose words to the effect that we pulled together that are down in interviews and in print from back then, of which there were many, including my injured friend who was interviewed many times about this and is in TV documentaries. He of all people, a liberal Democrat was down as saying how much we pulled together. And I witnessed it myself. And no, it was not just in NYC. Here in New England it was the same. Many people up here had friends and relatives that worked in the towers. One coworker's brother died. A high school classmate of mine also died, in addition to the one that was injured. 

The nation was united in mourning for the victims, and it had nothing to do with politics. In the end we are all just people, not our political opinions and affiliations, and at times like that those disagreements seem petty and more insignificant in the big picture.

We should be rejoicing in the fact that we have the right to disagree with each other. In some parts of the world at some times in history (even now) that has not been allowed. I was brought up to respect and admire our freedoms by some very liberal parents, BTW, and so I prefer to concentrate on the things that make this country great and not get bogged down in petty disagreements, especially with other Democrats that basically agree with me. America doesn't need to be made great "again". It is already great right now. Sure a lot of things need to be fixed and that shouldn't be forgotten AT ALL, but that doesn't diminish the things that make this place great. I prefer not to be a "glass half empty" person about this. I prefer to see the bigger picture.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

It might still be taught, but it depends on how deeply they go into the details of what lead up to WW2 and the war itself, as well as everything that came after. 

Plus, see my comment a few pages back about how there are some groups in this country that are actively trying to limit what kids are allowed to learn about in this country, or who will omit aspects of things from history books that may not fit a "pro-America" mindset or which focus on individuals that aren't straight white men or so on and so forth. Sure, the U.S. fought on the Allied side in that war, but our country had its own questionable/awful actions during that war as well, so...(overseas fighting Hitler while actively putting Japanese people into internment camps here in the States, for instance). 

So even if kids are still learning about the war in and of itself, depending on what kinds of books they have/how up to date those books are/what kind of curriculum the school district has/etc., they may only learn the basics and bare bones at most. 

And also, teachers only have a finite amount of time each school year to teach history. There is no way for them to teach anything too in depth unless the school system allows for teachers to teach a WWII specific class. Any general world history or US history curriculum only has a couple of hours to teach on any period when you have to start at the beginning and cover centuries.

[Palimelon]

Quote

When my parents were divorced, my single mother was able to take care of us in England, where we had free health care.  Every time we got sick (I got sick a lot), she didn’t have to worry about medical bills.  I could see a doctor, and get my medicine, just like that.  

Sadly it seems like the Tories were doing their best to gut the NHS and replace it with a for-profit system for everyone, like in the US.

[Yeah No]

On 11/22/2024 at 7:30 PM, Annber03 said:

They do know that prior generations were part of various movements, but they also know that a lot of people from the "boomer" generation seemed to turn their backs on a lot of the ideals they once fought for. Some of the same people form that genration who fought to let men grow their hair long and let women wear pants to school are the same ones now having meltdowns over pronouns and transgender people, for instance. Or they took a hard right and voted for Reagan and helped usher in the era that allowed Reagan and his administration to kickstart a lot of the shit we're still dealing with now. 

And then they see their fellow classmates getting shot and killed at school and adults around them just...not pushing to fight to put a stop to this, or caring more about their guns than students' safety, and they're listening to their parents/grandparents dismissing climate change, which is something that's going to clearly have a significant impact on younger generations going forward - the older generations won't be around to deal with the effects/don't think it's real, so they just shrug it off and vote for poeple who also dismiss and refuse to do anything about it.

And so on and so forth. Obviously, of course, this is not true of everyone from that generation. My mom is of that generation and she would and does completely side with younger generations' concerns about this stuff, and votes accordingly. As others have noted here, there were/are plenty of people from older generations who put in a lot of time and effort and hard work for progressive causes, and I can only imagine how incredilby devastating it has to be for those of you who fought so hard to see people actively trying to dismantle everything you worked so hard for. 

But I do think for some younger people ,that is where their heads are at with this stuff, fair critique or not. And if they're hearing parents and grandparents in their own everyday lives echoing conservative views and refusing to support progressive policies and complaining about how young people today are too "woke" and "sensitive snowflakes" and whatnot, they'll then take that and just kind of expand it to a negative view of people of those generations as a whole. I think the whole "OK boomer" thing was basically the result of them being tired of all the negative stereotypes they kept hearing about their own generation, so they threw it back at boomers as sort of a "How do you like it?" sort of response. 

-All of that being said, however, younger people are also shooting themselves in the foot as well, because a lot of younger people don't vote as often as they should. And a large part of that is because we're in an era now where people feel like a political candidate has to fit the most perfect checklist imaginable in order to be worthy of someone's vote. A lot of younger people were really not happy with Biden/Harris' stances on the Israle-Palestine conflict, for instance, and so some of them just refused to vote, or did a protest vote. 

Of course, that's completely backfired on them and on the people they support, 'cause now Trump and the GOP are in power and if anyone thinks they're going tto be even remotely helpful to the Palestinian people, then they are clearly living in a delusional fantasyland. 

I am down elsewhere defending Boomers because I think a lot of this is perception about them not the reality. Also, it depends on which Boomers you're talking about. Many of the older Boomers that remember the 1950s were raised with very traditional values and so some of the liberal experimentation they did when they were young was very surface and did not stick. For those of us in the later Boom or Gen Jones/Gen X generations, we were raised with those more liberal values and took them more to heart. For us it wasn't a rebellion that we experimented with and got over, we internalized those values as children and took them to be the norm.

I remember when I was getting into my teens and the disco era became big that a lot of the former hippies and radicals that comprised the older Boomers had suddenly become a part of the "establishment" themselves. I was shocked because that was not my reality, at least not in my head nor the heads of many people my age. It also shocked me how many of them suddenly supported Reagan. So as long ago as 1980 my mind was blown at how many former hippies and social progressives were suddenly turning their backs on all this progress. They then went on to give the rest of us a bad image among the younger people that we really didn't deserve. And now we're being lumped in with them....sigh. 

Edited November 24 by Yeah No
It was my teens, not 20s.

[Anela]

3 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Sadly it seems like the Tories were doing their best to gut the NHS and replace it with a for-profit system for everyone, like in the US.

That’s what a friend told me.  I remember, five years ago, when trump was over there, and he said something about the NHS being “on the table”.  The reaction he got, had him backtracking.  

[Browncoat]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

Maybe it would be better if there were more movies about the lead-up to the Third Reich.

So many of the big ones are about "beating the Germans heroically" instead of showing how Hitler was able to get to power in the first place. So many imply that this "wouldn't happen here".

The recent movie "White Bird" was a good example of the lead-up.  It was set in a part of France where people thought it wouldn't happen.  And of course it did, but it started with tiny things that just grew.  There aren't enough like this, though, and since it was a small film, I don't think it got a lot of press or promotion, either. I recommend it.

[peacheslatour]

20 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I am down elsewhere defending Boomers because I think a lot of this is perception about them not the reality. Also, it depends on which Boomers you're talking about. Many of the older Boomers that remember the 1950s were raised with very traditional values and so some of the liberal experimentation they did when they were young was very surface and did not stick. For those of us in the later Boom or Gen Jones/Gen X generations, we were raised with those more liberal values and took them more to heart. For us it wasn't a rebellion that we experimented with and got over, we internalized those values as children and took them to be the norm.

I remember when I was getting into my teens and the disco era became big that a lot of the former hippies and radicals that comprised the older Boomers had suddenly become a part of the "establishment" themselves. I was shocked because that was not my reality, at least not in my head nor the heads of many people my age. It also shocked me how many of them suddenly supported Reagan. So as long ago as 1980 my mind was blown at how many former hippies and social progressives were suddenly turning their backs on all this progress. They then went on to give the rest of us a bad image among the younger people that we really didn't deserve. And now we're being lumped in with them....sigh. 

I remember the Manson murders. After that, people cut their hair and went to business school. Also the "peace, love and flower power" movement in music became almost embarrassing when the likes of Jimi Hendrix, The Doors and Led Zeppelin showed up.

[bluegirl147]

I wonder if another country is going to make movies about Trump's rise to power.

36 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Sadly it seems like the Tories were doing their best to gut the NHS and replace it with a for-profit system for everyone, like in the US.

Because it works so well for us?

11 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I remember the Manson murders. After that, people cut their hair and went to business school. Also the "peace, love and flower power" movement in music became almost embarrassing when the likes of Jimi Hendrix, The Doors and Led Zeppelin showed up.

I still think the music from that era is some of best ever.   Over 50 yrs later I still listen to it.  50 yrs from now are people going to be listening to what is out now?

45 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And also, teachers only have a finite amount of time each school year to teach history. There is no way for them to teach anything too in depth unless the school system allows for teachers to teach a WWII specific class. Any general world history or US history curriculum only has a couple of hours to teach on any period when you have to start at the beginning and cover centuries.

And how many students are going to want to read about it on their own?  I grew up and I still am a reader.  I read every night before I go to bed. I can't remember a time when I wasn't in the middle of reading a book.  I finish one and immediately start reading another one.  Hoe many kids today are growing up reading outside of what is assigned?

Edited November 24 by bluegirl147

[Palimelon]

Quote

Because it works so well for us?

Modern day capitalism says yes.

Quote

became almost embarrassing when the likes of Jimi Hendrix, The Doors and Led Zeppelin showed up.

I really like Jimi Hendrix and Led Zepplin. Tons of great songs by both. Not a huge fan of The Doors but I do like a few of their songs.

[Enigma X]

8 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

I  really like Jimi Hendrix and Led Zepplin. Tons of great songs by both. Not a huge fan of The Doors but I do like a few of their songs.

Totally off-topic overall, but in reference to your comment. I agree with all of this. when I was 5 in 1980, I decided Led Zeppelin was my favorite band. I now have 5 Led Zeppelin tattoos.

[Anela]

6 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Totally off-topic overall, but in reference to your comment. I agree with all of this. when I was 5 in 1980, I decided Led Zeppelin was my favorite band. I now have 5 Led Zeppelin tattoos.

We're the same age.  But Adam Ant was my favourite, at that age, and my first crush. I watched him on Top of the Pops. 

 

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Maybe it's your safe place, but it sure hasn't been mine. I have felt that my words have been targeted, picked apart, twisted and dismissed in very nasty ways several times on this thread. It's largely why I have dropped out of the discussion.

I skim here daily, but the arguing, hair splitting, and jargon throwing quickly convinced me it was not my happy place.  I skim and read only those posts that have some possibly factual information that may enlighten me or lead me to visit Mr. Google to seek additional information.  

Political jargon is perhaps the fastest way to get me to run, that or ultra-conservative sound bites. 

[peacheslatour]

14 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Totally off-topic overall, but in reference to your comment. I agree with all of this. when I was 5 in 1980, I decided Led Zeppelin was my favorite band. I now have 5 Led Zeppelin tattoos.

My first love.

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

My first love.

I was a Jimmy girl. Now that I am older and knowing what I know now, I am not proud of that. That is a different thread though.

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I was a Jimmy girl. Now that I am older and knowing what I know now, I am not proud of that. That is a different thread though.

Yes, Pagey had problems. I have to remind myself to separate the art from the artist with talent like his.

[Dimity]

[peacheslatour]

I think we're all in this weird dark place right now. I go from being furious to being terrified to feeling numb. Every day I go through four of the five stages of grief. Acceptance is never going to happen for me.

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

 

I saw someone tweeting in response to another person talking about Denmark paying 40% in taxes.  This woman responded with the things she doesn’t have to worry about, because of where that 40% goes.  

 

And that 40% is likely not on every single amount earned.  Most tax regimes have a scale of taxes whereby the first X amount is tax free, the next chunk is at a lower rate and only the top chunk of income is taxed at the highest rate. 

[PRgal]

My parents are early boomers ('47 and '48) and being from a different culture, view the world today even more dying ifferently.  People seem to ASSUME (usually by people I call GWL (Guilty White Liberals), but also some people from other backgrounds who are just...unaware) that we'd be more open-minded since we're supposed to be, you know, "marginalized."  But you talk to my parents and you'll see the opposite.  They're actually A LOT like other older boomers, those of European ancestry who have been in Canada for generations.  They don't "get" today's society and I was once criticized for telling my son that marriage is between two people (this was after he said he wanted to marry all his "bug bros" (at the same time)....the "bug bros" are the boys in his class who hunt for bugs at recess) rather than a man and a woman.  Equal marriage has been legal in Canada for almost 20 years.  My dad has also worked with people who were openly gay, so I don't understand why he has issues.  I told my dad that he can't say this around my son, especially when one of the bug bros has two dads.  

At 45 (so late Gen X/Xennial), I'd say that I try to get today's world, but I'm often at a loss.  I can't deal with how I'm told to identify myself (e.g. I have to play victim and be considered "marginalized" when I was taught that one will always be a victim if they always think they are.  Or tha I should use my Chinese name more often rather than a "colonized" name.  Some people don't even believe that Cynthia is, indeed, my "real" (as in legal) name.  Or they think my parents were Tiger Parents (well....to a certain extent...I mean, I DID play piano and my parents DID put me in a computer camp...in the late 80s).  My dad will never say that he is one because he didn't feel like he was and still doesn't at 77 and neither would my mom).  I'm really at a loss these days when it comes to identity politics and a lot of other issues that they young'uns seem to want to talk about.  I'm also this close to not donating to my alma mater anymore because they seem to want to want to play with the whole identity politics thing in the sense of affinity groups rather than something like the multicultural club I had when I was there (the only thing that I DIDN'T like about it was when the club's head told me I couldn't sing something I learned from my voice lessons because it was in Italian and I have no Italian heritage.  It's a multicultural club for goodness sake!  And the Italian girls in the club were okay with it).  I love my alma mater and my time there, and YES, if my son were a daughter, she'd be there right now.  But one thing I'm NOT a fan of are those clubs and how I'm sure the girls are guilted into joining.  I feel badly for students whose families have been in the country for generations and have no connection to the old world at all.  Or those who just don't WANT to join.  Like I didn't want to be part of the Chinese Students' Association in undergrad.  How could I even be made to feel welcome when their signs were ONLY in Chinese.  It clearly meant "CBCs (Canadian born Chinese) Who Can't Read Need Not Join."  There weren't many Chinese adoptees...or any...from my era.  The one child policy began about a year after I was born, I believe.

[JustHereForFood]

Considering all of the misinformation that appears on social media, I would be vary of movies being promoted there.

There are tons of movies about WW2, unfortunately our consumption of media has changed a lot and reading some of the internet debates, it seems that people are less willing to watch anything that doesn't support their views 100%, which history is never going to. I am still in favor of things being taught in schools, if it's a problem of time, then we could move move quickly through the ancient times and let people interested in them look it up in their free time and concentrate more on the 19th and 20th century which still have a huge impact on our lives.

[Palimelon]

Quote

There are tons of movies about WW2, unfortunately our consumption of media has changed a lot and reading some of the internet debates, it seems that people are less willing to watch anything that doesn't support their views 100%

I mean, I guess people in denial about the Holocaust won't want to watch them? Or think something like Schindler's List or The Diary of Anne Frank is purely fiction or that Judgement at Nuremberg wasn't based on real events.

[PRgal]

5 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Considering all of the misinformation that appears on social media, I would be vary of movies being promoted there.

There are tons of movies about WW2, unfortunately our consumption of media has changed a lot and reading some of the internet debates, it seems that people are less willing to watch anything that doesn't support their views 100%, which history is never going to. I am still in favor of things being taught in schools, if it's a problem of time, then we could move move quickly through the ancient times and let people interested in them look it up in their free time and concentrate more on the 19th and 20th century which still have a huge impact on our lives.

Audie Cornish just interviewed someone who said that Dems (and other liberal/progressives) need to change their current philosophy of "righteousness" if they want to win PEOPLE.  

 

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Considering all of the misinformation that appears on social media, I would be vary of movies being promoted there.

There are tons of movies about WW2, unfortunately our consumption of media has changed a lot and reading some of the internet debates, it seems that people are less willing to watch anything that doesn't support their views 100%, which history is never going to. I am still in favor of things being taught in schools, if it's a problem of time, then we could move move quickly through the ancient times and let people interested in them look it up in their free time and concentrate more on the 19th and 20th century which still have a huge impact on our lives.

I remember back in the late nineties, my son and his friends were really into WWII. They loved the old movies and went to the range for target practice every chance they got, My son did so well on his SAT's he was being courted by West Point. They even flew out here to meet with him personally. Then 9/11 happened and Bush invaded Iraq. That was it for them. They thought we got into it for bogus reasons, scapegoating them because God forbid we should go after the Saudis, what with all that oil. Anyway enlisting went right out the window for the majority of them. 

[JustHereForFood]

6 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

I mean, I guess people in denial about the Holocaust won't want to watch them? Or think something like Schindler's List or The Diary of Anne Frank is purely fiction or that Judgement at Nuremberg wasn't based on real events.

Well, there are people throwing hissy fits about Jewish historical figures being played by Jewish actors, so...

[Palimelon]

Not sure how that relates to ignorance about the past and Holocaust denial, but ok.

[JustHereForFood]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

Not sure how that relates to ignorance about the past and Holocaust denial, but ok.

It is denying of history and reality when somebody says for example that Mary (mother of Jesus) was Muslim instead of Jewish, when she lived centuries before Islam existed. And it stems from similar sentiments as the denial of Holocaust - wanting to rewrite history so that one's favorite group of people is only shown in positive light and the people they dislike are always shown negatively.

[peacheslatour]

Just now, JustHereForFood said:

It is denying of history and reality when somebody says for example that Mary (mother of Jesus) was Muslim instead of Jewish, when she lived centuries before Islam existed. And it stems from similar sentiments as the denial of Holocaust - wanting to rewrite history so that one's favorite group of people is only shown in positive light and the people they dislike are always shown negatively.

Mary was Jewish. As was Jesus.

[Palimelon]

Quote

It is denying of history and reality when somebody says for example that Mary (mother of Jesus) was Muslim instead of Jewish, when she lived centuries before Islam existed.

Ah, I see. Now I get what you are referring to. And why.

Also, as per Islam, it has nothing to do with rewriting history or about people they dislike being shown in a negative light. That's just an stereotypical view of how Islam is.

Quote

And it stems from similar sentiments as the denial of Holocaust - wanting to rewrite history so that one's favorite group of people is only shown in positive light and the people they dislike are always shown negatively.

Nah, it stems from the whitewashing of historical figures in general. Same reason we have lots of people from the Middle East and north Africa being played by people of European descent, or people in Hollywood suggesting Julia Roberts should play Harriet Tubman.

Edited November 24 by Palimelon

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

It is denying of history and reality when somebody says for example that Mary (mother of Jesus) was Muslim instead of Jewish, when she lived centuries before Islam existed. And it stems from similar sentiments as the denial of Holocaust - wanting to rewrite history so that one's favorite group of people is only shown in positive light and the people they dislike are always shown negatively.

Islam didn’t even exist back then! 

[JustHereForFood]

Anyway, 9 movies from this list of top 100 movies are about WW2 at least in some way, 5 from this one and 8 from this one, so I don't think a lack of movies is the problem.

I still remember people talking about the facts that Churchill was racist and Hitler was a vegetarian not in terms of how we should judge people as a whole, but as some weird gotcha that maybe history was not so black-and-white as we consider it or something. When WW2 was one of the most black-and-white conflicts in history one can think of.

Edited November 24 by JustHereForFood

[PRgal]

Not about WWII (but WWI), but if anyone wants to learn about the horrors of war I highly suggest All Quiet on the Western Front.  It’s not from the ally side but German. The Canadian equivalent is The Wars by Timothy Findley.  Both were part of the English curriculum at my high school in the 90s (yes, we read books in translation). 

[Palimelon]

I mean, it doesn't have to be a "gotcha" moment but it call be true at the same time.

[Dimity]

47 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

When WW2 was one of the most black-and-white conflicts in history one can think of.

So much this.  It's insane the way I hear people trying to minimize the horrors that the Axis powers (let's not leave Japan out here) inflicted on the world.

 

[peacheslatour]

21 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Not about WWII (but WWI), but if anyone wants to learn about the horrors of war I highly suggest All Quiet on the Western Front.  It’s not from the ally side but German. The Canadian equivalent is The Wars by Timothy Findley.  Both were part of the English curriculum at my high school in the 90s (yes, we read books in translation). 

We read that in school. It's utterly horrific, that and Johnny Got His Gun made me passionately anti war.

Edited November 24 by peacheslatour

[Makai]

 

7 hours ago, Palimelon said:

I don't think the issue is not enough WWII content in pop culture, but that the way it's reaching younger people needs to be rethought. Maybe have "influencers" on Tiktok promote these movies, both older and new.

I doubt it would help. One thing I have learned from social media, is the extreme level of self delusion humans are capable of. The people who need the lesson are watching but are in complete denial. Right now social media is going crazy with Trump supporters in complete denial that Wicked is political and a perfect allegory for our current political climate. The same people lost their minds when they finally realized that Homelander on The Boys is supposed to be Trump. 

Edited November 24 by Makai

[Dimity]

26 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Both were part of the English curriculum at my high school in the 90s (yes, we read books in translation). 

I can't recall offhand if we had any books set during WWI or II on the curriculum in my high school, but I came of age when there was a lot of children's fiction out there set, especially during WWII and many,  if not most, of these books are still in print.  For younger readers I would highly recommend When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit by Judith Kerr.