Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Palimelon]

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Perfectly summing up why most of us are so disgusted that so many people don’t care about valuing good anymore, letting alone sticking together. 

I was only pointing out who that person may have been in response to someone else asking who that person was, ir, is it someone who is famous/semi-famous/a blogger/etc that they didn't recognize.

If anyone does know who that is, please let us know.

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That whole Trad Wife thing concerns me.  Even before it became a thing I would see a lot of women in their 20s saying they didn't have to work because their man did.  That seemed to be their goal.  Have a man take care of them. 

Of course, the Trad Wife influencers on social media are making some good $ off of that, something women in general don't seem to understand when they want to be a TW and just want a man to take care of them.

[BetyBee]

16 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Can I ask why some people still say "Democrat party"?  I think I know, but I've seen it on here.  This isn't against any posters, but in general it has become a thing.  I am guessing it is a form of disrespect?  when I respond on any platform that says that, I say "Republic party", because yes, I am petty that way.

I think it was Frank Luntz who began the habit of saying Democrat every time, because it includes RAT and he felt that was a good way to denigrate the party. I NEVER say it that way!

ETA: I heard John Fugelsang say this election was an example of Christianity triumphing over Christ. 

Edited November 11 by BetyBee
Unrelated addition, but an important point

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, tearknee said:

Collectivism is a thing of the past and not just in the USA. E.g. the abolition of the closed shop in the UK and the end of the unionized "a job for life" culture was a symptom not a cause.

It's because people have been convinced they can do better on their own.  That they can do their own "research" and disregard what experts say.  We saw it during Covid. 

[Yeah No]

14 minutes ago, atomic said:

What is unfathomable to me is that people did not draw the line at an attempted coup. At a weeks long effort to illegally discard the results of an election and install an unelected president. At the behind-the-scenes schemes that sought to use violence as a means to stop certification so that fake electors could be chosen instead. That the democratic principles that this country was built upon were under the worst attack since the Civil War.

That best friend I was talking about in a previous post turned on Trump in 2020 as a result of his non-handling of the pandemic and the insurrection, but obviously she is proof that people's memories are short and after a few years they can start to make excuses to justify why that isn't such a big deal to them anymore while the price of eggs is. I lost my father to Covid in April of 2020 and when I saw "that bastard" parading around without a mask at the White House after he had Covid it took my hatred of him over the top. Maybe if she lost her father the way I did she might not have been so "forgive and forget" about it. But she and my Dad were very close so I still don't get it. I will never get it.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, BetyBee said:

I think it was Frank Luntz who began the habit of saying Democrat every time, because it includes RAT and he felt that was a good way to denigrate the party. I NEVER say it that way!

Yeah that weasel. Wasn't he the guy who started saying climate change instead of global warming because it sounded less scary? Also the estate tax started being called the death tax to in fact scare people.

 

Just now, Yeah No said:

Maybe if she lost her father the way I did she might not have been so "forgive and forget" about it.

Maybe not. I've spoken before about a former friend, an LPN, in California who quit her well paying job because she refused to get the vaccine. Her mother died of Covid.  She simply said she had a good long life. As if it was well what can you do?  She was never political but her views on things were definitely left leaning.  But now she is right leaning. So right leaning she posted a meme making fun of the terrorist beeper explosions a couple months ago.  

[PRgal]

38 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

That whole Trad Wife thing concerns me.  Even before it became a thing I would see a lot of women in their 20s saying they didn't have to work because their man did.  That seemed to be their goal.  Have a man take care of them. 

 

Yet they're trying to make money as influencers doing "home stuff."  What a way to make Martha Stewart look bad.

[Palimelon]

Quote

ETA: I heard John Fugelsang say this election was an example of Christianity triumphing over Christ. 

Well, Jesus is weeping, and they aren't tears of joy.

[bluegirl147]

When I was a kid up until I was 13 or 14 I went to church.  And even then I knew it wasn't for me.  Too much male superiority being taught (I didn't yet know the word patriarchy).  Too much judgement. Just too much period.  I was probably already an agnostic at that point and as I got older became an atheist.  I had seen the Republican party embrace more and more what we used to call the Christian Right (what I now call the Republican Party) and I knew it was going to be a problem.  I mean here we had the Speaker of House cheating on his cancer stricken wife all the while proclaiming family values.  Then we had GW start faith initiatives.  In the government.  Separation of church and state be damned. But it was the GOP literally believing Trump is their lord and savior excusing everything he did thinking he was sent by god to save them that has forever corrupted them.  I don't believe in god or heaven or hell but if I'm wrong I truly hope all these people are given the afterlife they so richly deserve.

[Yeah No]

28 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

ETA: I heard John Fugelsang say this election was an example of Christianity triumphing over Christ. 

Thank you for that, I was not aware of Fugelsang. I listened to his podcast "If you're a true Christian, how can you vote for Donald Trump's "Revenge" Tour?" (click underlined for link) and it was just what I've been thinking and saying all this time about the religious right.

It pisses me off because I'm a Christian and hate what that has become identified with in the U.S. because of the religious right and their warping of Christianity. I was born and raised an Episcopalian and that church as are many "mainstream" churches is dying in this country as more people are turned off to Christianity and religion in general because of the extreme right, which is increasingly identified as the only example of Christianity in this country. Meanwhile Episcopal teachings are more in keeping with the true teachings of Christ than fundamentalist, right wing Christianity. A LOT more.

Anyone who really WAS a Christian would never vote for Trump just on the basis of his character. How you can profess to stand for kindness, fairness, justice, forgiveness and selflessness on the one hand and support someone who embodies just the opposite is unconscionable to me. And the epitome of hypocrisy. And this BS about how "God uses flawed vessels" is another example of total BS used to brainwash the weak minded.

BTW, Mayor Pete is an Episcopalian, and chose to be so because he is a thinking person who understands these things. The Episcopal church in the U.S. has been openly embracing gay people for decades now and has had openly gay bishops for that long too. But people only hear the loudest and most extreme right-wing mouthpieces on religion and the other forms of it are drowned out.

It sounds a lot like what is happening politically in this country. Extreme rhetoric and exploitation of people's weaknesses and emotions is always more effective than the truth, unfortunately. Christianity has been warped and used by people with their own selfish agendas for as long as it's been around and Trump and the far right Christians he has somehow seduced to support him by lying to them about his beliefs are yet another example of that. I think they've made a deal with the devil, but why they don't know that never works out is beyond me. But they are hardly what I would call "Christians" anyway.

[Palimelon]

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it was the GOP literally believing Trump is their lord and savior excusing everything he did thinking he was sent by god

Oh, he was sent by someone, all right. Just not God.

[supposebly]

I'm only here as a German Canadian, so while I see a rightward movement all over the world, I am wondering whether some of it can be due to the always widening gap between less affluent and the ever dwindling middle class. Keep in mind, I'm not an economist and I am very panicked about the backwards movement against people's rights and protections. But this post is about my thoughts about the economic pressures that may have contributed to some of this mess.

The CBC has an analysis that showed that people with higher education and more money remained with voting Democratic while more people on the low end of the socioeconomic scale moved toward Republican. That has been a development for quite a while not only in the US.

The Social Democratic party in Germany with a long tradition of fighting for worker's rights has become a shadow of its former self, partly, I think, due to globalization pressures where cheap goods have made unions who help getting people decent wages less important. And now we have an awful non-distribution of wealth. And most people with money and education vote left-leaning. I think that should give us pause. 

I'm also wondering if the simple fact that if you spend your whole day worrying about money and how to feed your children just makes every other topic irrelevant. I'm not defending people's choices for Trump, far from it, but I also think it's difficult to estimate what is foremost on people's minds.

I'm simplifying, of course, but as someone who's been broke or at least quite poor for most of her life, the desperation and mindset that comes with this kind of situation tends to block out almost everything else and doesn't promote rational thinking most of the time. You think until your next paycheck, if you can pay rent or will be homeless next month, that's it. I've been a lot less stressed and anxious about politics when I had no money. My anxiety mostly went to those places not to my rights as a woman. It still sometimes does because it's actually quite hard to get out of that mindset.

We have an ever widening gap between rich and poor and I can't help but think that the strong push for globalization is partly responsible for it. We now have these incredibly powerful multinational corporations that more or less determine/influence policy and in the US, they can even bribe people into voting for someone (Musk) and of course, it's not for the good of everyone.

Governments in the late 20th century thought globalization and easing of international trade was a good idea and any counter-movement was deemed "nationalist" or "protectionist" and we still think of that as a bad thing. I was watching the West Wing out of nostalgia in the last few weeks, and they were arguing for globalization and more trade to make governments like China more "democratic" and it will make things cheaper for everyone. I think that aged terribly. And Canada benefitted a lot from that, make no mistake. And the EU too.

And now we are so deep in a situation where wages are low, prices have been cheap, interest rates low (compared to the 80s and 90s), that a short-term protectionist measure (Trump's tariffs for everything), will backfire (see Brexit). I'm also not so sure he actually will be able to get them all through.

And all the money from globalization and more open international trade went to corporations and no one fought for labor rights, and decent wages because there was less pressure to do that. Hence, weaker unions and a backlash against them.

Now, an interest rate of 5% makes it incredibly difficult to afford a mortgage because the wages never increased with everything else. 

I'm not an economist but I think the world economy is in for a rough ride unless we can find means to redistribute the wealth better. And I don't think that's news. We've known that for quite a while.

[Palimelon]

With all the talk of religion in the US, there is another interesting statistic about US presidents, besides the ones about how they have all been male and only one has been non-White; only 2 of them have belonged to non-Protestant churches. Make what you will of that...

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

When I was a kid up until I was 13 or 14 I went to church.  And even then I knew it wasn't for me.  Too much male superiority being taught (I didn't yet know the word patriarchy).  Too much judgement. Just too much period.  I was probably already an agnostic at that point and as I got older became an atheist.  I had seen the Republican party embrace more and more what we used to call the Christian Right (what I now call the Republican Party) and I knew it was going to be a problem.  I mean here we had the Speaker of House cheating on his cancer stricken wife all the while proclaiming family values.  Then we had GW start faith initiatives.  In the government.  Separation of church and state be damned. But it was the GOP literally believing Trump is their lord and savior excusing everything he did thinking he was sent by god to save them that has forever corrupted them.  I don't believe in god or heaven or hell but if I'm wrong I truly hope all these people are given the afterlife they so richly deserve.

I respect your beliefs. I also see them as an example of what is happening in the US and probably the world too, when corrupted religion turns people off to God and faith. I don't attend church myself, although the Episcopal church is not and never was (in my experience) about pushing patriarchy and controlling women's lives and bodies, otherwise my mother in particular never would have been one. There may be a more conservative form of it around but that was not the tradition I was brought up in nor is it the one Mayor Pete joined. Although I personally don't care for any form of organized religion because it always attracts people that corrupt it for their own purposes and weaknesses. So I definitely sympathize with anyone that is turned off to organized religion. One of my undergrad. majors was in Theology and for me it's about my beliefs and the way I choose to live my life, not worshiping in an organization. The interesting thing is that I often agree with atheists and agnostics on this subject. I have just chosen to stick with my beliefs in spite of what other hypocrites do and say.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Christianity has been warped and used by people with their own selfish agendas for as long as it's been around

What happened was Republican politicians saw what happened to politicians who didn't embrace the Religious Right.  McCain didn't and then tried to and still lost.  They kept getting more and more power and then there was Trump willing to sell out to them and he has basically let them dictate to him what they want.  Majority of this country did not want Roe repealed but Trump's Evangelical base did so he did their bidding.  As much as I want money out of politics I want religion out just as much.

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

With all the talk of religion in the US, there is another interesting statistic about US presidents, besides the ones about how they have all been male and only one has been non-White; only 2 of them have belonged to non-Protestant churches. Make what you will of that...

I will and I don't think most of them were members of right wing, conservative Protestant churches, which I in particular get offended at being lumped in with. Most of them were Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians or Unitarians, all of which are pretty opposed to all that right-wing Christianity typically stands for in the U.S. and what it has been commonly identified with. And of course there's Mayor Pete, who is Episcopalian by choice, which says a LOT about how different they are. So I make BIG distinctions between Christian denominations and it pains me that many people lump us all together with the conservative right-wing denominations.

6 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

As much as I want money out of politics I want religion out just as much.

Amen to that! Separation of church and state!

14 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Oh, he was sent by someone, all right. Just not God.

Trump himself now thinks he was sent by God. He keeps saying his life was spared from assassination by God for a reason. So now he thinks he's the freaking Messiah too.....

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Although I personally don't care for any form of organized religion because it always attracts people that corrupt it for their own purposes and weaknesses. So I definitely sympathize with anyone that is turned off to organized religion.

Yes.  I don't have a problem with faith. I have a problem with religion.  Too much money and power involved.  And most religions do not treat women well.

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I have just chosen to stick with my beliefs in spite of what other hypocrites do and say.

Yes because you have the freedom to do that.  The problem is too many people think what they believe can be forced on others.

9 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

With all the talk of religion in the US, there is another interesting statistic about US presidents, besides the ones about how they have all been male and only one has been non-White; only 2 of them have belonged to non-Protestant churches. Make what you will of that...

I remember hearing the fear some people had of a JFK winning was his Catholic beliefs would influence his policies.  Now we have politicians proudly saying their religious beliefs dictate their policies. And oh yeah they think they should also dictate what you believe too.

12 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I'm also wondering if the simple fact that if you spend your whole day worrying about money and how to feed your children just makes every other topic irrelevant.

It also makes you more likely to want to believe someone telling you your financial situation was caused by (fill in the blank) instead of government policies or corporate greed.

 

[Palimelon]

Quote

I will and I don't think most of them were members of right wing, conservative Protestant churches, which I in particular get offended at being lumped in with.

Oh, it wasn't meant to reflect on the presidents themselves, but an interesting unspoken fact about voters as well. America isn't ready to elect a woman for president, and they seem just as hesitant, though less so, to elect someone who isn't a member of a protestant church.

Because as @bluegirl147 points out:

Quote

I remember hearing the fear some people had of a JFK winning was his Catholic beliefs would influence his policies.  Now we have politicians proudly saying their religious beliefs dictate their policies. And oh yeah they think they should also dictate what you believe too.

I remember back in 2000 there was a lot of coded statements from people about having Joe Lieberman next in line to be president if something happened to Al Gore had Gore won the election.

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Oh, it wasn't meant to reflect on the presidents themselves, but an interesting unspoken fact about voters as well. America isn't ready to elect a woman for president, and they seem just as hesitant, though less so, to elect someone who isn't a member of a protestant church.

They elected Biden and he's RC, but again he was a man. But a lot of those conservative-right Christians don't even think those of us from the "mainstream Protestant" faiths are Christians in the first place, and they actively spread that in their teachings. Their definition of Christianity is you believe their way or you're not even a Christian. So I don't know if being a mainstream protestant is enough for them to be honest. Most mainstream Protestant faiths accept evolution (as does the RC church) and have women ministers and priests, and teach equality of the sexes and to them that's "Godless" stuff. It may have been enough to be just any kind of Protestant to get elected in the past but I wonder about that these days, especially in red states.

I had a Jewish friend that converted to one of those conservative Christian faiths and she tried to tell me that I was not a Christian. Me, who went to a Jesuit university and studied theology!

 

[Palimelon]

As much as we may not want to admit it, that bias when it comes to voting for president might not just be limited to conservative-right Christians.

You have to wonder if Kennedy, Obama, and Biden might be outliers with regards to the outcome of future presidential elections. I do hope I am wrong though.

[supposebly]

As to the religion topic, that seems to me quite a US thing, maybe a Canadian thing a bit too, and of course in the Middle East. Certainly not in Europe. Well, maybe in Poland for a while. And Ireland. I couldn't speak to Africa, South America, or Asia. Well, maybe it's not a primarily US thing once I think about it.

Not that Germany is in a good position right now. The left-leaning government coalition just collapsed on November 4. See Germany moving more to the right with the next election. Unless the more conservative party can siphon off those more extremist votes. 

 

[Is Everyone Gone]

The trad-wife thing is concerning because of the polished veneer trad-fluencers now have on their SM. So many young women just see their "perfect" life on IG and aspire to be trad-wives.

My favorite line about trad wives comes from Rosalynn Carter:

“I can’t stay at home and do Cokes and teas, although I think that for those people who want to do that, then that’s surely important to them.”

Heh. I loved her. Such a no-nonsense, progressive lady. 

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

It also makes you more likely to want to believe someone telling you your financial situation was caused by (fill in the blank) instead of government policies or corporate greed.

Along with that there is the all too common belief that there are easy fixes to complicated problems.   It's one of the many reasons why people vote in authoritarian leaders.  

41 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I had a Jewish friend that converted to one of those conservative Christian faiths and she tried to tell me that I was not a Christian

In a FB group I belong to a perfectly lovely lady, well educated and well spoken was convinced that Catholicism was not a Christian religion.  Now that I think about it she's an excellent example of people who will never be convinced of basic, obvious FACTS because they prefer to cling to their opinions.  

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Along with that there is the all too common belief that there are easy fixes to complicated problems.   It's one of the many reasons why people vote in authoritarian leaders.  

Legislating by bumper sticker. There is a theory that if your policies won't fit on a bumper sticker, most Americans won't remember it or possibly even understand it.

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Legislating by bumper sticker. There is a theory that if your policies won't fit on a bumper sticker, most Americans won't remember it or possibly even understand it.

We found at Tea Party rallies there were people who didn't know Medicare was government run.   There are people who think ACA and Obamacare aren't the same thing.  And of course Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work.

Set aside disinformation and misinformation there are too many people who are content to just simply not know things.  I don't know if it's willful ignorance or they are just too scared to know the truth.  

To quote Isaac Asimov:

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

Edited November 11 by bluegirl147

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

We found at Tea Party rallies there were people who didn't know Medicare was government run.   There are people who think ACA and Obamacare aren't the same thing.  And of course Trump doesn't understand how tariffs work.

I remember.

 

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Along with that there is the all too common belief that there are easy fixes to complicated problems.   It's one of the many reasons why people vote in authoritarian leaders.  

In a FB group I belong to a perfectly lovely lady, well educated and well spoken was convinced that Catholicism was not a Christian religion.  Now that I think about it she's an excellent example of people who will never be convinced of basic, obvious FACTS because they prefer to cling to their opinions.  

Yes, just like like the opinions that were formed by people using mind control tactics, brainwashing, fear mongering, us-vs them talk and other cult-like tactics on the political far right. It's no wonder that people that already have been susceptible to those kinds of cult-ish belief systems and tactics in the religious arena were ripe to fall into the cult of Trump. 

And now they are elevating him to almost messianic status. That bit about being spared by God for a reason is troubling because now they are convinced he was sent by God to save them from the evils of the "left".

[Dimity]

18 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And now they are elevating him to almost messianic status. That bit about being spared by God for a reason is troubling because now they are convinced he was sent by God to save them from the evils of the "left".

When Trump eventually goes to his reward the cult will raise statues to him but the history books will not be kind. 

I take deep breaths and know that eventually this too will pass but, sadly,  a lot of good people are going to be hurt along the way.

[bluegirl147]

6 minutes ago, Dimity said:

When Trump eventually goes to his reward the cult will raise statues to him but the history books will not be kind. 

I wonder how many people who voted for him are actually part of his cult or how many people voted for him because they aren't happy with the Biden/Harris administration.  And as far as history books go we have seen what some red states have done with history books.  

[PRgal]

Globalization and education play a role, I think.  However, make no mistake that all of this, the income gap, tariffs, etc, will most definitely HURT international corporations.  And this in turn will not only hurt the billionaires that own them, but those who invest in said corporations, whether they be regular middle class, the so-called "millionaire next door" (actually, these people are more or less middle class...they just have more liquid assets but live in average neighbourhoods and have strict budgets), etc.  Basically everyone.  There's so much different information coming, that people like me don't even know how to deal with our investment portfolio.  I mean, my son's university fund is "safe" right now, but will it be when he's 18 and off at school?  How much WILL he have then?  I hope it won't go down to zilch.....it's years away, so I suppose I'm okay.....

[suomi]

Hey to everyone, long time no chit chat. I was active on the daily in Sister Wives forum but gradually burned out. (OG3 - - > is mine!)

Chiming in here because it is Veteran's Day in the US. Father was first-generation Finnish-American, born in 1921 in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, the third of 15 children (12 survived to adulthood). 

Enlisted in the Army Air Corps (precursor to the US Air Force) two days after Pearl Harbor. Served in what is called The Forgotten Theater, CBI (China-Burma-India), achieved rank of Staff Sergeant. Assignment was to locate and recover downed aircraft and crew, RAF IIRC. Spoke very little about his tour - his face, voice, demeanor would change and I learned to leave it alone. The most he said was "The mind never forgets the smell of burned human flesh."

He served during the construction of the Burma Road which was used to supply China (our ally) because of invasions by the Japanese. Also served during construction of the Ledo Road after Japan closed the Burma Road. Many of the Merrill's Marauders came through his camp - they were a deep penetration, long-range, special forces jungle warfare unit. He said "those poor bastards" had dysentery so bad that they cut out the seat of their trousers in order to have something halfway decent to wear. Best advice he got there was "Never stand behind a Marauder."

Returned home weakened by recurrent malaria, feet/ankles/calves permanently discolored by jungle rot - but never wounded. Moved to SoCal, married, father of three, nearly reached his 94th bday. He was a walking encyclopedia, and I miss him every day.

Looking forward to reading more "feels" about veterans. We are grateful, and we remember you.

[Dimity]

59 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I wonder how many people who voted for him are actually part of his cult or how many people voted for him because they aren't happy with the Biden/Harris administration. 

I think (I hope) that the cult is a smaller subset.  There are always going to be people who vote for "their" party no matter who is leading it and then there are people who will always blame the current administration for everything going wrong in their lives.

Speaking of - I was just reading an article claiming that many voters went for Trump because of the unfairness they see where undocumented migrants are jumping the queue ahead of those trying to immigrate to the US legally.  Uh huh.  Interesting that this is the issue they see as being unfair - they don't seem to have any problems with the multitude of other issues where fairness comes into play.  Only this one.  Yes, it's really all about being fair.  Sure it is.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

However, make no mistake that all of this, the income gap, tariffs, etc, will most definitely HURT international corporations. 

The only way it hurts the corporations is if consumers stop buying their products.  Corporations will raise their prices as they always do when faced with supply chain problems, inflation or just when they fucking feel like it and consumers will keep buying what they need because they need it.  But I look for discretionary spending to slow down.   We will get a clue how things are going to go when we see the holiday sales reports. How many people are already slowing down their spending?

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, suomi said:

Hey to everyone, long time no chit chat. I was active on the daily in Sister Wives forum but gradually burned out. (OG3 - - > is mine!)

Chiming in here because it is Veteran's Day in the US. Father was first-generation Finnish-American, born in 1921 in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, the third of 15 children (12 survived to adulthood). 

Enlisted in the Army Air Corps (precursor to the US Air Force) two days after Pearl Harbor. Served in what is called The Forgotten Theater, CBI (China-Burma-India), achieved rank of Staff Sergeant. Assignment was to locate and recover downed aircraft and crew, RAF IIRC. Spoke very little about his tour - his face, voice, demeanor would change and I learned to leave it alone. The most he said was "The mind never forgets the smell of burned human flesh."

He served during the construction of the Burma Road which was used to supply China (our ally) because of invasions by the Japanese. Also served during construction of the Ledo Road after Japan closed the Burma Road. Many of the Merrill's Marauders came through his camp - they were a deep penetration, long-range, special forces jungle warfare unit. He said "those poor bastards" had dysentery so bad that they cut out the seat of their trousers in order to have something halfway decent to wear. Best advice he got there was "Never stand behind a Marauder."

Returned home weakened by recurrent malaria, feet/ankles/calves permanently discolored by jungle rot - but never wounded. Moved to SoCal, married, father of three, nearly reached his 94th bday. He was a walking encyclopedia, and I miss him every day.

Looking forward to reading more "feels" about veterans. We are grateful, and we remember you.

Welcome back, you have been missed! My father was a "walking encyclopedia" of all things historical and related to WWII. He was also a WWII vet., mostly in post-war Europe and North Africa. He saw the devastation in Poland and Germany, and was greeted as a hero in Paris.

After the war he enlisted again and served in the Army Reserve Signal Corps., ascending to the rank of Captain. He taught Signal Corps. for many years in the USAR school in NYC. After he formally retired from the Army he became a recording technician for the American Foundation for the Blind in NYC, where he met many celebrities that came to record talking books for the blind.

My mother was also a WWII veteran in the Women's Army Corps. She was stationed in Vermont and New Jersey, where she ascended to the rank of sergeant and editor of her base's newspaper. Both of my parents enlisted multiple times and met in the service in the early 1950s in NYC. Both of them were by chance Episcopalians. My mother was of Sicilian and Maltese descent and my father was a Mayflower descendant and half Jewish on his father's side. So they were amazed to have so much in common!

My mother worked full time as a legal secretary in the late '60s and '70s in Manhattan. She was tri-lingual in English, French and Italian so she was in demand by multinational law firms. Toward the end of her career in the late '70s she made more money than my Dad! In her 40s she went to college at night and eventually achieved a Master's in Creative Writing from City College in NY. After she retired she edited theses and resumes part time. She died in 2001 right before Sept. 11. She worked for many years only 2 blocks away from it.

Both of them were truly amazing, wonderful people and I miss them both every day. As you probably remember, I lost my Dad to Covid in early April of 2020.

[Bookish Jen]

The Regina Georges of MAGA are out in full force on social media. I've seen plenty of Trumper women on places like Twitter (I refuse to call it X) claiming now Trump has won a second term a we need to have a mean girl renaissance and make bullying great again. When have these women ever stopped being mean girls and bullies? Never.

Before I ever heard of Donald Trumper, I grew up amongst Trumpers. When I was 10, my family moved to a very conservative community. Even though it was the next town over from the one I had moved from, it might has well been Mars. The town I lived in until I was 10 was filled with kind, friendly, and caring people. This new town was filled with uncaring, crass, and meanspirited people. They totally looked down on outsiders and were total bullies. I left soon after graduation and moved to a major city. So many of my classmates stayed in this town or moved back to this town after college, and they still retain the backward, racist, bigoted attitudes they had growing up. The last time this town was in the local news was when one of its sports teams left racist and anti-Semitic messages in the visiting team's locker room

Sadly, we live in a world where empathy is demonized and cruelty is celebrated.

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, Bookish Jen said:

Sadly, we live in a world where empathy is demonized and cruelty is celebrated.

I've read that narcissism is on the rise and one of the symptoms of that is lack of empathy. It can also be true of people with other types of personality disorders, which are also the rise as well.

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

The last time this town was in the local news was when one of its sports teams left racist and anti-Semitic messages in the visiting team's locker room

I still live in the town I grew up in and during Trump's first term my high school football team played a home game against a predominately African American team.  There were signs saying Trump your ass and some other nasty things. It became a big thing and the local media covered it.  The school superintendent apologized for some fan's behavior and said it wasn't reflective of most people at the game or in our county.  Well not surprisingly to me there was outrage among some of my fellow citizens and that superintendent lost her job not too long afterwards.  The mean girls I went to school with grew up to be mean women.  And they raised a new generation of mean girls. And boys.  

Edited November 11 by bluegirl147

[Bookish Jen]

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I've read that narcissism is on the rise and one of the symptoms of that is lack of empathy. It can also be true of people with other types of personality disorders, which are also the rise as well.

Sadly, narcissism is rewarded. Being a decent person, a mensch, is not.

[Bastet]

14 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Twitter (I refuse to call it X)

Same.  If Elon insists on deadnaming his own child, I'll deadname the hell out of his stupid site.

[kittykat]

3 hours ago, supposebly said:

I'm also wondering if the simple fact that if you spend your whole day worrying about money and how to feed your children just makes every other topic irrelevant. I'm not defending people's choices for Trump, far from it, but I also think it's difficult to estimate what is foremost on people's minds.

I think you make an interesting point here. Because again I've been that person lurking all over social media looking for an answer, a perspective from the Trump voters.  And the above sentiment appears to be the most common reply I see.  I see a lot of people talk about immigration reforms, I see a lot of Gen Z males generalize that the Democrats ran a man-hating campaign, which really grinds my gears because our side dared to suggest that other Americans of the non-white, non-male contingent be allowed equal rights.

But again, as you said above.  I've read a lot of comments from Trump supporters male and female who have expressed this very sentiment: that it's hard to care about women's rights and trans rights when they're worried whether they'll be able to put food on the table next paycheck.  And, look, I think I understand where they're coming from but I can't resign myself to agree with it.  The Democrats had an uphill battle with the economy and the incumbents always struggle and lose votes in reelection years.  To me the economy and women's rights are one and the same because Women Work!  If a woman wants to contribute to her household and bear children, she has the right to feel secure not only economically but medically.  And I think a lot of female Trump voters didn't see those issues as one and the same, which is a shame because you shouldn't have to sacrifice one for the betterment of the other.

It also leads to the feeling I've had that this election has not been decided on facts but perception.  Whether by racism, sexism or their own preconceived economic notions Trump voters perceived that he was the better guy despite increasingly loopy rally appearances and vague platitudes.  Then again people bought this forty years ago in the Reagan era.  Trump makes them feel good to be a proud American.  It's morning in Trump Country.  And right now I have no idea how the Democrats are going to fight this.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

It also leads to the feeling I've had that this election has not been decided on facts but perception

More and more life has become all about perception. Fake it till you make it.  Having social media lives that don't match up with your real life.  Trump himself saying once he is as rich as he feels on any given day.  Influencers telling you that you too can live their life if you just buy this brand of lipstick.   And now we have AI masquerading as reality.  Which brings me to

4 minutes ago, kittykat said:

And right now I have no idea how the Democrats are going to fight this.

I don't think we can change things till Trump is dead. I have yet to see anyone on that side that even comes close to that level of devotion he inspires in so many people.  But the big question what exactly remains after Trump is finally gone?

[Anela]

I’ve just seen Jessica Yellin (news not noise) post a video from trump’s “border czar”.  He said that deportations will happen, and told democrats to get out of the way. 😣

Edited November 11 by Anela

[Dimity]

3 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

But the big question what exactly remains after Trump is finally gone?

I've heard people say Donald Trump Jr wants to step up in the fulness of time.  Which makes sense as Trump and his followers think he's a king so of course...  However, only Trump is Trump (thankfully).

[peacheslatour]

Speaking of our veterans. I used to think about them every time I went to vote before we got mail in voting here in Washington. No matter how tired I was after work, no matter that it was usually pouring down rain and dark and shitty out I would drive my ass over the the elementary school, with my young son and vote. I would think, people went to war and gave their lives for my right to do this and I'm damned if I am going to throw away my voice because it's inconvenient. Fuck people who don't vote. I blame them just as much as the MAGAts.

[bluegirl147]

8 minutes ago, Anela said:

I’ve just seen Jessica Yellin (news not noise) post a video from trump’s “border czar”.  He said that deportations will happen, and told democrats to get out of the way. 😣

My question is how exactly are they going to know who to deport?  Are they just going to round up brown people?  Are they going to ask people to report their neighbors or coworkers? Because we all know how reliable those people will be.  I truly believe that Trump and his worst supporters think they can get rid of millions of minorities.  Undocumented or not.  That is their true objective. To stop this country from becoming a minority majority population.

[ebk57]

26 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I've heard people say Donald Trump Jr wants to step up in the fulness of time.  Which makes sense as Trump and his followers think he's a king so of course...  However, only Trump is Trump (thankfully).

I'm just laughing because the thought of Don Jr trying to step into anything is...laughable.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, ebk57 said:

I'm just laughing because the thought of Don Jr trying to step into anything is...laughable.

He isn't called Beavis (with brother Eric being Butthead) for nothing.

[Dimity]

29 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of our veterans. I used to think about them every time I went to vote before we got mail in voting here in Washington.

Any veteran or serving member of the military who voted for Trump...well  I guess I better not finish that sentence because there is no way I can be calm about it.  A man who despises military service, who refused to meet with wounded soldiers, who called prisoners of war losers...despicable.

[partofme]

54 minutes ago, kittykat said:

But again, as you said above.  I've read a lot of comments from Trump supporters male and female who have expressed this very sentiment: that it's hard to care about women's rights and trans rights when they're worried whether they'll be able to put food on the table next paycheck.  And, look, I think I understand where they're coming from but I can't resign myself to agree with it. 

I have no understanding or sympathy for where they’re coming from.  They’re either really ignorant or they’re lying and  “the economy “ is code for they voted for Trump because of racism because Republicans are always bad for the economy and their policies always hurt poor and working class people.  

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, atomic said:

It boils down to that for me too.

As a woman of color, especially one living in the south, it does not really surprise me that being a racist was not a dealbreaker to people in this majority white country. It does not really surprise me that being a misogynist was not a dealbreaker to people in this society where the patriarchy is still alive and well.

What is unfathomable to me is that people did not draw the line at an attempted coup. At a weeks long effort to illegally discard the results of an election and install an unelected president. At the behind-the-scenes schemes that sought to use violence as a means to stop certification so that fake electors could be chosen instead. That the democratic principles that this country was built upon were under the worst attack since the Civil War.

How that was not disqualifying to so many Americans is something I'll never wrap my head around either.

That's the part that disturbs me the most, too. If I'm going to criticize the Biden admnistration for anything it's that they didn't immediately clear house and kick out everyone involved in January 6th upon taking office, and pass a law ensuring that Trump could never legally run for any sort of political office ever again. That should've been their first order of business. Maybe if that had happened things would be very different now.  There is absolutely no justifiable reason Trump should've been allowed to run agian, and the media should've hammered that home relentlessly instead of obsessing over Biden's age. 

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

They want to privatize the VA.  That would be a nightmare. 

There are so many veterans who stop in to get help with VA stuff at where I work - I don't handle them as part of my job, but I know many of my coworkers do and I can hear their conversatons with those patients sometimes from their respective offices. 

Some of those veterans likely voted for Trump. If/when he and his adminstration do this, I can already HEAR the ranting they'll do when they come in to try and deal with any issues relating to that and being able to afford treatments or getting paid or whatever. 

And I'm just gonna sit there not being the slightest bit surprised and quietly thinking, "Gosh, who could've seen that coming." 

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And I'm just gonna sit there not being the slightest bit surprised and quietly thinking, "Gosh, who could've seen that coming."