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S01.E07: VII

Snazzy Daisy
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aghst

aghst

Cathryn tells her story in the most roundabout way.

Why wouldn’t she simply say he raped her and that he forced her at knifepoint to pose for those pictures?

Then she’s rushing to the hospital rather than calling police or hospital security, sending vague texts to Robert.

When she’s trying to make herself throw up, she’s courteous to rush to the bathroom rather than vomit on the kitchen floor.

Then she’s running and happens to have running shoes on!  She runs and chases a flock of pigeons flying, very dramatically.

Meanwhile, Stephen knew Cathryn was telling the story, only recognized it just as he was about to inject Nick with poison.

Until that point, he was acting like a sociopath, which may have made sense, Jonathan was a chip off the old block.

Why did he have a come to Jesus moment because Nicholas asked for his mom, to take him away?  The way he said it, it sounded like he wanted to die.

Stephen burns everything, though he decides to check out every photo as he threw them into the fire.  Notices little Nick witnessing his mom being forced to pose seductively.  How did Jonathan not notice the kid in the frame?

Nick must have witnessed a lot more, probably didn’t go back to his room and fall asleep or tried to block out the sounds from the other room.

Cathryn and Robert sit closely by in the hospital, with him trying to apologize.  She doesn’t get mad or emotional, just says she can’t forgive him.

Again, unreal the way she expresses herself.

Cathryn still ends up with the posh home after the divorce and a chance to reboot her relationship with her grown up junkie son.

Alls well that ends well?

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Zaffy

Zaffy

I was lured into this by the stellar cast.
I stopped watching after episode two.

This way of storytelling is driving me crazy. Rely on a "mystery" cause you have a weak story. I just can't stand a "story" where we see people just acting without us knowing why. 
And ok, I could understand keeping what really happened for the finale, but having a man planning a revenge that includes murder without telling us why he thinks Cathryn is guilty was ultra frustrating. And the only flashbacks were basically fiction that his wife created based on their son's photos. ARGH!
But I was curious enough to google for the book's spoilers and I realized the issue was with the book and not with the show.
So after you brave people watched the whole thing, what do you think this story was about?

  1. How creepy Jonathan and his family were?
  2. a comment about our society ?
  3. What grief can do to people?
  4. What rape can do to the victim?
  5. All of the above?
  6. No message, just a bad written story with some style  and not much sense? 
  7. Too many series not enough good (or even average) writers?
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catsitter

catsitter

I thought at first, when Stephen pulled the photo out of the fire, that it was going to be one of those silly last-minute twists, and that he would see something which proved Catherine was lying, such as a bottle of booze and two glasses. At least that didn't happen. But if Nancy was so obsessed with Jonathan's photos, surely she spotted Nicholas in that photo too?

 

It looked as though Stephen was taking a knife with him to the hospital, but then his murder weapon was just going to be a syringe again?

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Mindthinkr

Mindthinkr

I felt a bit duped. I thought I was watching a story about one thing, only to discover the truth was another thing entirely. I also didn’t care how they wrapped it up sitting on the couch. No mention of the other aspects of her life that was ruined. Was the book still for sale or did they pull the book and put the truth out there in the media to take suspicion off of Catherine? What was the end point of Stephen other than he erased both his wife and son from his life and the false memories he held so dear. I guess I should have stopped watching too. 
 

To answer question 3 @Zaffy

I have witnessed grief do a wide range of things to people or a family. I have witnessed first hand how it can destroy a family. 

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Ellaria

Ellaria

(edited)

Lots of thoughts about this finale. The use of the unreliable narrator was central to the story itself as well as how we viewed this show.

Nancy’s book was what she chose to believe about the last days of her son’s life. We know that she was in deep denial. Her book was a coping mechanism - a dangerous one - but Stephen seemingly accepts most of it as truth despite knowing that Nancy never truly processed her grief.

Robert accepts the book as truth along with the word of a stranger (Stephen).He chooses not to accept what Catherine is trying to explain.

Clearly, the scene at the end where both men ask each other “why didn’t you question it” is the central point of this show. One man doesn’t question his wife’s story and then tries to destroy another family. Another man questions everything about his wife and destroys his own family.

Edited by Ellaria
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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

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Nicholas says he doesn’t remember much about their Italian holiday. Based on the half-burnt photo, little Nicholas did see some of the things that happened on that fateful night.

On the hospital bed with Stephen standing next to him, Nicholas instinctively recognizes Stephen’s cologne/deodorant (he is wearing Jonathan’s) and he identifies that smell with his mom, calling for her. That’s the moment when Stephen realizes that Catherine is telling the truth.

 

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shelley1234

shelley1234

I always knew in my bones that Nancy was an unreliable narrator.  She just couldn't know all that she wrote.  She filled in the pieces that made her son the hero and Catherine the evil, slut villian.   

Catherine was victimized many years ago and then again by all the people in her life that are supposed to be by her side.  It speaks to why many women never report rape and sexual assault...because they often are not believed and/or blamed for allowing or causing it to happen.  

The thing I find most unbelievable is that Stephen who was so filled with grief and rage that he was planning to murder two people to get vengeance...that anything could shake him and get him to believe what Catherine was saying was the truth.  And that he did it in the span of a hour or two.   

Did I enjoy this series?  I'm not sure.  But I am pretty sure I am not supposed to.   Beautiful acted by Blanchett and Kline though.  

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aghst

aghst

Stephen probably knew his son was capable of suspect behavior.  

He didn't want to believe Cathryn at first but it probably brought up old memories.

When he was burning the books, Nancy's manuscript, her sweater, his wedding band and the photos, the voiceover said that Nancy had always "dressed up" Jonathan's behavior.

So he probably realized that not only was Jonathan capable of raping women, he probably did it.

 

 

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sadie

sadie

It was an adequate ending. I read the book and it did a much better job at the end of explaining why Stephen believed her, the things he saw in his son and he knew he was “off” but his wife would never acknowledge it and would just cover for Jonathan, so when Catherine told him her story he knew she was telling the truth. There were clues throughout his life that he was violent and had issues with women. They gave us some clues along the way but if you didn’t already know the end you easily missed them. 
 

it really hit home when Catherine said to Robert you are more okay that I was brutalized and raped than the thought that I had a one night stand, was powerful and again explains why a lot of women just stay quiet. Even with its flaws I enjoyed the series. I was happy she booted his ass to the curb, what a spineless jerk he turned out to be.

  • Like 9
Straycat80

Straycat80

I enjoyed this series even though it was all over the place and I found myself yelling WTF at my TV quite a few times about a lot of criticism’s everyone has already mentioned. 
The best part for me was at the end when Robert and Stephen asked each other why they didn’t question it (apparently the story/book). Duh! 
If I had been Cathryn at the end I would not have been so nice and comforting to Robert, I would have punched him. 
@zaffy: 3&4. 

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Mindthinkr

Mindthinkr

4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

It ended the way I thought it would and was generally depressing and tedious overall. I was left wondering if Cathryn had any lasting effects from the drain cleaner in her tea.  It seemed like a lot of lives were ruined over a misunderstanding.

The drain cleaner was in the syringe he planned to inject into her son’s port. He had crushed up some sleeping tablets the ER gave him with a spoon and put that into her tea. 

Madding crowd

Madding crowd

(edited)

Yes, lives were ruined because of a misunderstanding over the meaning of a set of photographs. It doesn’t make it less horrifying. Tragic misunderstandings are a well known dramatic theme in literature, stage plays and movies. This is one of my least favorite themes because it always seems preventable and over the top.

Edited by Madding crowd
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SoMuchTV

SoMuchTV

4 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Why did the cinematographer/editors use iris-outs so often? They added nothing. If anything, they made the scenes seem flippant.

Is that what some of the scene transitions are called? I assumed there were different transitions to differentiate Catherine’s memories vs the book re-enactments, but honestly I didn’t pay close enough attention to say whether they were consistent. 

hoodooznoodooz

hoodooznoodooz

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Is that what some of the scene transitions are called? I assumed there were different transitions to differentiate Catherine’s memories vs the book re-enactments, but honestly I didn’t pay close enough attention to say whether they were consistent. 

I had to look it up.

 

A transition where the screen turns to solid black starting at the edges and pushing inwards, forcing the view of the scene into an ever-dwindling circle in the manner of a camera iris closing. 
 

I also did not pay close attention to when they used it. If I had to guess, they used them to end the Nancy version of events. 

LaDuchesse

LaDuchesse

On 11/8/2024 at 3:15 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

On the hospital bed with Stephen standing next to him, Nicholas instinctively recognizes Stephen’s cologne/deodorant (he is wearing Jonathan’s) and he identifies that smell with his mom, calling for her. That’s the moment when Stephen realizes that Catherine is telling the truth.

I did not understand how this suggested to Stephen that Catherine was telling the truth. If she had sex with Jonathan willingly and especially as suggested in the false flashbacks, she probably would have had his cologne scent on her when she was around Nicholas.

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Phillygurl

Phillygurl

Well I, for one, have to say Bravo to the actors. I was in suspense the whole time. Hated Catherine for 90% of the series, as intended, then hated Robert and Stephen with even more vigor in the end. Felt for poor Nicolas who supposedly doesn't remember anything but happens to be an addict. I mean, this was 10 times better than Presumed Innocent. I truly enjoyed it. Off to go read about the parts of the book that clue in to Jonathan's underlying signs of depravity.

chediavolo

chediavolo

On 11/9/2024 at 6:58 AM, sadie said:

It was an adequate ending. I read the book and it did a much better job at the end of explaining why Stephen believed her, the things he saw in his son and he knew he was “off” but his wife would never acknowledge it and would just cover for Jonathan, so when Catherine told him her story he knew she was telling the truth. There were clues throughout his life that he was violent and had issues with women. They gave us some clues along the way but if you didn’t already know the end you easily missed them. 
 

it really hit home when Catherine said to Robert you are more okay that I was brutalized and raped than the thought that I had a one night stand, was powerful and again explains why a lot of women just stay quiet. Even with its flaws I enjoyed the series. I was happy she booted his ass to the curb, what a spineless jerk he turned out to be.

Or he was relieved that she didn’t willingly have an affair? I think they should’ve talked about that a little more but then again Catherine is not really good about talking. Was she? How many chances did she have to tell her husband that she didn’t have an affair that she was raped? She never said anything to any of her colleagues. She never said anything to anyone ..I get it. She was traumatized but good grief when something like this happened you need to tell people the truth.. Jesus this series was infuriating. 
and also, we are supposed to believe that Jonathan risked his life to rescue the child of the woman he raped for hours the night before?

which brings me to said child. Why did he hate his mother so much? I was assuming it was because he must’ve seen the seduction which turned out to be rape. Then they did show a photo of him having witnessed it, but he says he doesn’t remember anything so why the hatred of his mother his entire life?

Like  others above mentioned, the cats were the best thing about this. And I am ever so grateful that no harm came to either one of them. What was the symbolism of the fox in the yard? And also, I did love the elevator scene between Robert and Stephen. Everything in the middle was confusing and just plain stupid. Most of it was made up by a woman who had no idea what was going on and was delusional about her son. We never found out the girlfriend’s part of the story as to why she left Italy and went home. So everything we saw about them was bullshit too. Well, the whole show was bullshit. I can’t imagine reading this book.

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