S04.E08-E09: A Very Arondekar Christmas Parts 1&2

[Dimity]

I loved everything about this episode, especially that Jay got to see the ghosts in a realistic (well for this show!) way.  Made total sense.

I do have to say some of you take this show way more seriously than I do!  To me it's fluffy fun.  And boy do I need fluffy fun on my TV right now!

[Skooma]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I often wonder why Sam doesn't just tell people there are ghosts. At least family members. It's easy enough to prove, they did so with Bela. I guess one possibility is that they worry if news spreads they could be overrun by curiosity seekers and news media, and possibly scientists who want to study Sam. It could get very complicated and overwhelming.

Exactly.  I thought the show went too far with telling Bela which then lead to Bela's boyfriend already.  And he is a loose canon if there ever was one.  A big time juicy secret is very hard for people to keep their lips zipped about. 

The whole show is based on two golden principles:  Jay (originally Mike in the UK) can't see the ghosts which is a main pillar of the whole comedic basis for the show and (2) the absolute need for Sam (UK's Allison) not to let other people know she sees them.  We don't want Sam assumed to be mentally off by the public after all.

[kathyk2]

3 hours ago, Skooma said:

Exactly.  I thought the show went too far with telling Bela which then lead to Bela's boyfriend already.  And he is a loose canon if there ever was one.  A big time juicy secret is very hard for people to keep their lips zipped about. 

The whole show is based on two golden principles:  Jay (originally Mike in the UK) can't see the ghosts which is a main pillar of the whole comedic basis for the show and (2) the absolute need for Sam (UK's Allison) not to let other people know she sees them.  We don't want Sam assumed to be mentally off by the public after all.

Sam had to tell Bela because she thought Jay was playing a trick on her. I'm glad she did because it brought Sam and Bela closer together. 

[Skooma]

43 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Sam had to tell Bela because she thought Jay was playing a trick on her. I'm glad she did because it brought Sam and Bela closer together. 

I know why she told here.  I just don't think the writers should have set it up so she had no choice to tell.

Edited December 26, 2024 by Skooma

[possibilities]

It seems to me that the show has decided to stick with the formula of telling the jokes around Jay being in the dark, and everyone keeping the secret from most others. This revolving door of stories using the same set up seems to be bringing in good ratings, so that means a lot of people like it. And it's easy to play the same beats over and over again, from a writing perspective, much easier than having to come up with new ideas that don't use this structure and write 22 of those per season.

On the other hand, there ARE lots of stories to tell. This very thread has floated many ideas-- telling other people about the ghosts and proving it to them as was done with Bela, having Jay become able to see and hear them on a more permanent basis, telling storied of ghosts who are no longer there, telling stories of how the ghosts lived and died before becoming ghosts, telling stories about the ghosts before Sam and Jay arrived, having the ghosts and Sam and Jay do other things besides what we've seen them do so far. I think that these are all valid options, and would add dimension to the show, but then other people think the entire basis for the show's humor and apparently also its general appeal would be destroyed by some of these directions.

Since people are lazy and risk averse in a lot of cases, sticking to a winning formula is usually how things go, and experimenting with changing it is unlikely. Once in a while we'll get a flashback but the show will continue to mostly be about shenanigans that Jay only experiences 2nd hand, and where 3rd parties are unaware of what is happening at all. I think that's the most boring part of the show, but most people seem to think that is THE main appeal and THE key thing that makes it fun.

I think they have such a great cast and setting and characters and set up here, that it really begs for more development. It seems like we get a few flashbacks per season, but they are doling out the backstories very slowly. We still don't know how Sass died, or what Hetty's power is, for example. I wonder if those episodes are lower rated than the others, and that is why. If we in the forum are so easily imagining stories they don't tell us, I don't think the writers could be worried about running out of material if they give us those kinds of episodes more often. But they don't seem to want to do it.

Edited December 26, 2024 by possibilities

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

It seems to me that the show has decided to stick with the formula of telling the jokes around Jay being in the dark, and everyone keeping the secret from most others. This revolving door of stories using the same set up seems to be bringing in good ratings, so that means a lot of people like it. And it's easy to play the same beats over and over again, from a writing perspective, much easier than having to come up with new ideas that don't use this structure and write 22 of those per season.

On the other hand, there ARE lots of stories to tell. This very thread has floated many ideas-- telling other people about the ghosts and proving it to them as was done with Bela, having Jay become able to see and hear them on a more permanent basis, telling storied of ghosts who are no longer there, telling stories of how the ghosts lived and died before becoming ghosts, telling stories about the ghosts before Sam and Jay arrived, having the ghosts and Sam and Jay do other things besides what we've seen them do so far. I think that these are all valid options, and would add dimension to the show, but then other people think the entire basis for the show's humor and apparently also its general appeal would be destroyed by some of these directions.

Since people are lazy and risk averse in a lot of cases, sticking to a winning formula is usually how things go, and experimenting with changing it is unlikely. Once in a while we'll get a flashback but the show will continue to mostly be about shenanigans that Jay only experiences 2nd hand, and where 3rd parties are unaware of what is happening at all. I think that's the most boring part of the show, but most people seem to think that is THE main appeal and THE key thing that makes it fun.

I think they have such a great cast and setting and characters and set up here, that it really begs for more development. It seems like we get a few flashbacks per season, but they are doling out the backstories very slowly. We still don't know how Sass died, or what Hetty's power is, for example. I wonder if those episodes are lower rated than the others, and that is why. If we in the forum are so easily imagining stories they don't tell us, I don't think the writers could be worried about running out of material if they give us those kinds of episodes more often. But they don't seem to want to do it.

But the formula serves as comfort food to the audience, and perhaps in the writers room too. 
I do think this episode stretched the formula a bit, and trust we'll see it expand the relationship between Jay and the ghosts going forward. 

Also, it takes a lot of creativity to stick with a formula through this many episodes without getting stale, and I find each episode to still be fresh, even though I enjoy some more than others.

[Skooma]

What sitcom changes things up drastically just for the sake of change?  Changing for the sake of change only is not only silly but suicidal as well if you have a major hit going.  The UK mothership never changed so why should the US version?

I mean did Lucy ever become less wacky?  Did Mary Tyler Moore's character get married and have 5 kids and give up her career forever?  Did Archie Bunker become a liberal or Maude a conservative?  Did Hawkeye become a gung-ho supporter of the Korean War?  Did Frasier become a blue collar worker?  Did Sheldon become the most empathetic and emotional person on planet earth?  Of course not. 

Any of those moves would have destroyed those shows.  Also it would have put a lot of people out of work years before those shows ran their natural course.  Sitcoms are not cheap, experimental off-Broadway theatre.  They are multi-million dollar enterprises and few become major iconic shows so when one hits big time you do NOT mess with success.

"Ghosts" is a major hit now and I love the formula.  I don't want to be driven away because somebody in the writing room or a producer decided to change up everything radically and go all artsy fartsy for the sake of what?  Committing TV show suicide?  Nope, never do that.

 

Edited December 26, 2024 by Skooma

[iMonrey]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

We still don't know how Sass died, or what Hetty's power is, for example.

The US version of this show does seem to imply all ghosts have some special kind of power. But the UK version did not. Some ghosts had special abilities, but some simply did not have any special way of affecting the living world. 

We now know that Thor, Sass, Alberta and Trevor have a power that enables them to affect the living. Isaac and Flower have a more passive version of that. And Pete has an ability that does not affect the living. So based on the number of "main" ghosts that have a ghost power, it stands to reason we are just waiting to find out what special ability Hetty has since she's the only one left.

And if Hetty has a power too, then it so must all the basement ghosts, Stephanie, Nigel, Jenkins, Baxter, Carol, etc.

[kathyk2]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

It seems to me that the show has decided to stick with the formula of telling the jokes around Jay being in the dark, and everyone keeping the secret from most others. This revolving door of stories using the same set up seems to be bringing in good ratings, so that means a lot of people like it. And it's easy to play the same beats over and over again, from a writing perspective, much easier than having to come up with new ideas that don't use this structure and write 22 of those per season.

On the other hand, there ARE lots of stories to tell. This very thread has floated many ideas-- telling other people about the ghosts and proving it to them as was done with Bela, having Jay become able to see and hear them on a more permanent basis, telling storied of ghosts who are no longer there, telling stories of how the ghosts lived and died before becoming ghosts, telling stories about the ghosts before Sam and Jay arrived, having the ghosts and Sam and Jay do other things besides what we've seen them do so far. I think that these are all valid options, and would add dimension to the show, but then other people think the entire basis for the show's humor and apparently also its general appeal would be destroyed by some of these directions.

Since people are lazy and risk averse in a lot of cases, sticking to a winning formula is usually how things go, and experimenting with changing it is unlikely. Once in a while we'll get a flashback but the show will continue to mostly be about shenanigans that Jay only experiences 2nd hand, and where 3rd parties are unaware of what is happening at all. I think that's the most boring part of the show, but most people seem to think that is THE main appeal and THE key thing that makes it fun.

I think they have such a great cast and setting and characters and set up here, that it really begs for more development. It seems like we get a few flashbacks per season, but they are doling out the backstories very slowly. We still don't know how Sass died, or what Hetty's power is, for example. I wonder if those episodes are lower rated than the others, and that is why. If we in the forum are so easily imagining stories they don't tell us, I don't think the writers could be worried about running out of material if they give us those kinds of episodes more often. But they don't seem to want to do it.

I agree with you on the great cast. US sitcoms have more episodes than British ones so than can go slower. I wonder if the showrunners are waiting to see which plots the audience likes so they can adapt. I hope Jay gets to see the ghosts more often.

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But the formula serves as comfort food to the audience, and perhaps in the writers room too. 
I do think this episode stretched the formula a bit, and trust we'll see it expand the relationship between Jay and the ghosts going forward. 

Also, it takes a lot of creativity to stick with a formula through this many episodes without getting stale, and I find each episode to still be fresh, even though I enjoy some more than others.

This. 

Also, I won't go into details, 'cause that would run us into spoiler territory, but it certainly doesn't sound llike this show is close to done exploring these characters more in depth and whatnot, so yeah, I think we're in no danger of running out of story ideas for this cast/the show in general. The show is now in its fourth season, yes, but it's still on the younger side compared to other shows that have been running far longer. And it's doing nicely in the ratings as well. So it makes total sense that the show is going to space this stuff out and let us build up to whatever else they want to explore someday in regards to the characters' backstory and flashbacks and power-related stuff and so on - they've got plenty of itime and opportunity available :). 

[Lugal]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The US version of this show does seem to imply all ghosts have some special kind of power. But the UK version did not. Some ghosts had special abilities, but some simply did not have any special way of affecting the living world. 

We now know that Thor, Sass, Alberta and Trevor have a power that enables them to affect the living. Isaac and Flower have a more passive version of that. And Pete has an ability that does not affect the living. So based on the number of "main" ghosts that have a ghost power, it stands to reason we are just waiting to find out what special ability Hetty has since she's the only one left.

And if Hetty has a power too, then it so must all the basement ghosts, Stephanie, Nigel, Jenkins, Baxter, Carol, etc.

I assumed that all ghosts have powers, but some are so negligible or only work in a specific circumstance, like Sam's mom having shrimp burps or the Buymore ghosts that can make people forget why they came down an aisle.

[possibilities]

Thinking about this, I'm realizing that books with ghosts usually just have one, or maybe a few from the same family or era. Does anyone know of any books with ghosts that come from such a variety of backgrounds and eras, and explores the subject matter in a way that uses their relationships the way this show does? I don't mean something that follows the same ones over time, but something like this tv show, where a bunch of them co-exist over time who started out with very different backstories, personalities, and so on. 

[PaulE]

7 hours ago, Lugal said:

On 12/26/2024 at 12:25 PM, iMonrey said:

The US version of this show does seem to imply all ghosts have some special kind of power. But the UK version did not. Some ghosts had special abilities, but some simply did not have any special way of affecting the living world. 

We now know that Thor, Sass, Alberta and Trevor have a power that enables them to affect the living. Isaac and Flower have a more passive version of that. And Pete has an ability that does not affect the living. So based on the number of "main" ghosts that have a ghost power, it stands to reason we are just waiting to find out what special ability Hetty has since she's the only one left.

And if Hetty has a power too, then it so must all the basement ghosts, Stephanie, Nigel, Jenkins, Baxter, Carol, etc.

I assumed that all ghosts have powers, but some are so negligible or only work in a specific circumstance, like Sam's mom having shrimp burps or the Buymore ghosts that can make people forget why they came down an aisle.

I also assumed that all ghosts have powers of some sort (and, given the countless number of ghosts there seem to be in the world, some powers are the same or similar).  But, to follow up on what Lugal said above about passive or negligible powers, I've always thought Isaac's and Flower's weren't so much powers as attributes.  The others can do specific things at will, such as interfere with electricity, make walls bleed, move things, or travel beyond the ghost boundaries, but that's not really the case with these two.  Sure, they can deliberately walk through a person or choose not to, but when they do pass through someone they can't control what happens.  Nor can they, say, make an entire room smell bad or get every living in a room high just by willing it.  Each so-called power in their case seems to reflect the state of their mortal bodies at the time they passed: Flower was full of pot and Isaac was full of shit (I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist, but it is true, after all).  Remember, Isaac would give anything not to have his particular "power," but he's helpless.  All he can do is try to avoid the conditions under which it happens.

In fact, if the restaurant ever becomes a success, those two had better stay clear of it when it's crowded.  Think of all the people moving around: waiters, customers arriving and leaving, or getting up from their tables to use the restrooms, etc.  Isaac and Flower (especially Flower) might try to dodge one person only to inadvertently go through another if there's not a lot of space.  I have visions of stoned waiters spilling trays on people or everyone leaving because of the smell, with complete strangers accusing others of being the cause and getting into a fight.  That would be pretty funny, actually, but poor Jay!  Word gets around.

 

[possibilities]

This might be a reason to have Isaac remain a partial owner with a stake in the restaurant's financial success! Otherwise, he might not be motivated to steer clear!

[shura]

On 12/24/2024 at 6:02 PM, mojito said:

There had to be other ghosts in the past, or else how would they know about getting sucked off?

Technically, anyone who dies gets sucked off, it just happens right away (like it happened with Sam’s great aunt, for example).  But yes, to know that it can happen to ghosts at a later time they had to have seen it.

It is a great question how the ghosts could know things about the ghost world if they had not seen those things themselves.  They have ways now that Sam and Pete can tell them about ghosts outside the boundary, but what about before?  They didn’t know until recently about poltergeists or ghosts attached to vehicles, so they were not receiving any information about the outside world through channels like that either.

Could they know somehow that ghosts in, say, Vancouver or Honolulu have the same ghosts rules?  Maybe this boundary thing and getting sucked off is just a local anomaly.  Could they know for a fact whether there even are ghosts out there?  I don’t remember, did they even know about the ghosts at Farnsby’s house before Sam discovered them there?

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by shura

[SoMuchTV]

4 hours ago, shura said:

Technically, anyone who dies gets sucked off, it just happens right away (like it happened with Sam’s great aunt, for example).  But yes, to know that it can happen to ghosts at a later time they had to have seen it.

Gotta love it when a discussion of ghostly abilities starts with “Technically…”  But we seem to be straying far from this episode, lately. Maybe time to take it elsewhere? At least some of this discussion might fit here?

 

[amarante]

On 12/28/2024 at 5:55 AM, shura said:

Technically, anyone who dies gets sucked off, it just happens right away (like it happened with Sam’s great aunt, for example).  But yes, to know that it can happen to ghosts at a later time they had to have seen it.

It is a great question how the ghosts could know things about the ghost world if they had not seen those things themselves.  They have ways now that Sam and Pete can tell them about ghosts outside the boundary, but what about before?  They didn’t know until recently about poltergeists or ghosts attached to vehicles, so they were not receiving any information about the outside world through channels like that either.

Could they know somehow that ghosts in, say, Vancouver or Honolulu have the same ghosts rules?  Maybe this boundary thing and getting sucked off is just a local anomaly.  Could they know for a fact whether there even are ghosts out there?  I don’t remember, did they even know about the ghosts at Farnsby’s house before Sam discovered them there?

 

Specific to the issue of sucking off, the UK version deals with this specifically and it is clear that there have been prior ghosts who they dealt with who were sucked off.

Robin who is a caveman instead of a Viking in the UK version has seen this over the enormous amount of time he has been a ghost - others have been ghosts for a relatively short period of time as compared to Robin.

There is quite a moving episode in terms of how the ghosts deal with a ghost being sucked off. 

Edited December 31, 2024 by amarante

[Harvey]

These episodes legit had me balling like a baby. The scene where we FINALLY get a smidgen of backstory on Sassapis Death and Thor learned Lenape to speak to him- MAN, that was beautiful.

BUT, the biggest for Me was when “Pete” as Jay went to hug his Daughter Laura and when Jay’s body pulled away and Pete stayed- Immediately I am crying and then cry/laughing because you know…Zombie Jay. My Mom died in 2016, she LOVED Christmas. I would give ANYTHING to hug her one more time. Anything. So this scene was So Beautiful, Beautifully performed by All the Actors. I had to watched the episode immediately again just to make sure I didn’t miss anything.

Seriously, this Show. I love it. So many moments of TRUE Vulnerability and Love and mostly Laughter. I am thinking of Hetty’s death reveal, the episode with Sam’s Dad, when Pete’s Daughter first brought Little Pete to Woodstone, when Alberta Sang with her Descendant. It’s Beautiful.

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Seriously, this Show. I love it. So many moments of TRUE Vulnerability and Love and mostly Laughter. I am thinking of Hetty’s death reveal, the episode with Sam’s Dad, when Pete’s Daughter first brought Little Pete to Woodstone, when Alberta Sang with her Descendant. It’s Beautiful.

This is one of the big things that drew me to the show when it debuted - how they could balance the funny/ridiculous/goofy side with the more serious/touching/poignant side. I like how they're able to both find the humor and absurdity in death and all that comes with it while also exploring the pain and tragedy around death and loss, as well as the deeper connections between the ghosts and their loved ones, both those long gone and those they left behind. I think that's a big reason people have connected with this show as they have - everyone has had, or will have, experience with loss and death at some point in their lives, or is struggling with their own fears and uncertainties about the concept of death. And I think this show does a really good job of addressing and acknowledging all of that, and viewers can find some comfort in that. 

My dad died relatively young and abruptly, too (though in a very different manner than Pete), so everything with Pete and Laura has always hit me on a personal level. I was an adult when I lost my dad, unlike Laura, who would've still been a child when Pete died, but yeah, I sympathize with her loss so much and I really like when the show touches on their bond as it does. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I wonder what would happen to Pete if his body continued to disappear.  Would his consciousness disappear, too?  No afterlife, but no pain?  Or just a disembodied voice, which only other ghosts (and Sam) could hear?

[PaulE]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder what would happen to Pete if his body continued to disappear.  Would his consciousness disappear, too?  No afterlife, but no pain?  Or just a disembodied voice, which only other ghosts (and Sam) could hear?

I used to think that he would simply cease to exist, even on a spiritual plane.  I mean, he's already disembodied, right?  His physical body no longer exists, so if his form as a spirit disappears, there's really nothing left.  I especially thought this because Pete was so frightened the first time it happened.  To me, he clearly thought that would be the end of him--though on second thought I realized he probably reacted so strongly simply because he had no idea of what was going to happen to him, which is, I imagine, more terrifying than knowing. 

But we know from the attempted exorcism from Jay that he has a soul, so that implies he would still exist in some manner, and we also know that, in the canon of this show, there's a heaven and a hell.  Many religions teach the concept of an immortal soul that, though without a physical body, is a continuation of the person, has a consciousness, and can be judged.  I guess we're getting into both metaphysics and theology here, but I'm now inclined to think he'd continue to exist consciously by some definition, though how and where is anyone's guess.

[kathyk2]

On 12/26/2024 at 11:48 AM, Skooma said:

What sitcom changes things up drastically just for the sake of change?  Changing for the sake of change only is not only silly but suicidal as well if you have a major hit going.  The UK mothership never changed so why should the US version?

I mean did Lucy ever become less wacky?  Did Mary Tyler Moore's character get married and have 5 kids and give up her career forever?  Did Archie Bunker become a liberal or Maude a conservative?  Did Hawkeye become a gung-ho supporter of the Korean War?  Did Frasier become a blue collar worker?  Did Sheldon become the most empathetic and emotional person on planet earth?  Of course not. 

Any of those moves would have destroyed those shows.  Also it would have put a lot of people out of work years before those shows ran their natural course.  Sitcoms are not cheap, experimental off-Broadway theatre.  They are multi-million dollar enterprises and few become major iconic shows so when one hits big time you do NOT mess with success.

"Ghosts" is a major hit now and I love the formula.  I don't want to be driven away because somebody in the writing room or a producer decided to change up everything radically and go all artsy fartsy for the sake of what?  Committing TV show suicide?  Nope, never do that.

 

The shows you mentioned changed to keep the audience interested. Hawkeye was the lead character on Mash but the supporting cast around him was different. Sheldon did become a better friend and husband when Big Bang Theory ended. You can't have the characters learning the same things over and over again or else the audience will get bored. 

[kathyk2]

What if Sass was still a teen when he died and that's why he was still a virgin? The show has said the year each ghost died but not their age. Most of the ghosts were in their twenties or thirties when they died we can assume this since Flower and Trevor were college graduates before they died. Sass could have been in his late teens when he died since he went through puberty. His father may have encouraged him to be a storyteller before marriage.

[Skooma]

3 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

What if Sass was still a teen when he died and that's why he was still a virgin? The show has said the year each ghost died but not their age. Most of the ghosts were in their twenties or thirties when they died we can assume this since Flower and Trevor were college graduates before they died. Sass could have been in his late teens when he died since he went through puberty. His father may have encouraged him to be a storyteller before marriage.

People were having kids of their own at 14 or 15 years old back throughout most of history.

[kathyk2]

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

People were having kids of their own at 14 or 15 years old back throughout most of history.

That's true especially since lifespans were so short. CBS might not approve a storyline with a fourteen year old leaving home. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

CBS might not approve a storyline with a fourteen year old leaving home. 

Indigenous people in his day didn't leave home as we think of it now; it was communal, multigenerational living. 

In terms of people starting their own families within the larger family, it was, as stated, typically done in the teenage years (older on average for boys than girls, but still teens).  Román has a youthful appearance, yes, but can't pass as playing a teenager.  Back in the 90210 days of TV, that would fly, but if they tried now to present Sass as having died as a teenager, I'm not sure how that would go over.

Edited Friday at 07:00 AM by Bastet

[chaifan]

23 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

What if Sass was still a teen when he died and that's why he was still a virgin?

I think it's pretty clear Sass is not a teenager.  They've never even tried to make him appear to be anything other than full-fledged adult.  I've always assumed Sass is mid-20's.  

[kathyk2]

29 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I think it's pretty clear Sass is not a teenager.  They've never even tried to make him appear to be anything other than full-fledged adult.  I've always assumed Sass is mid-20's.  

Roman Zaragosa who plays Sass is in his twenties we don't know how old any of the ghosts were when they died.

[PaulE]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I think it's pretty clear Sass is not a teenager.  They've never even tried to make him appear to be anything other than full-fledged adult.  I've always assumed Sass is mid-20's.  

Roman Zaragosa who plays Sass is in his twenties we don't know how old any of the ghosts were when they died.

I've always been under the impression that Sass was around 20 when he died and that this was mentioned early on in the show, but since no one else has mentioned this yet my memory must be faulty.  Perhaps 20 came from an interview with Roman somewhere, but I really did think he was that age.  Roman, I know, is closer to 30 than to 20 and I agree there's no way he could pass anymore as a teenager.  Twenty makes sense, though, in terms of his lack of experience about certain aspects of life, yet he's clearly an adult.  Since Native Americans didn't keep written records, I suppose it's impossible to know for certain whether there were exceptions to getting married in the teens, but I have to imagine there'd have been some.  And of course, the various tribes would not all have had the same traditions and social standards.  At any rate, I think it would be very interesting to have more of his back story, whatever it is.  His is really the least developed of the ghosts, if you think about it.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

Roman Zaragosa who plays Sass is in his twenties we don't know how old any of the ghosts were when they died.

We know Isaac was in his mid 30s - there was the episode that revealed his birth year was 1742, and he died in 1777, so he was either 34 or 35 when he died, depending on what time of year he was born. And Trevor mentioned being thirty-three in an episode once. 

I think we also got Flower's birth year in the episode "The Owl", when they were doing her memorial service. She was born in the 1930s and died in 1969. 

But yeah, Sasappis being in his early 20s when he died sounds about right. 

[christie]

I always thought Sassapis was in his late teens/early twenties so somewhere between 18 and 22.

[iMonrey]

On 1/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, PaulE said:

But we know from the attempted exorcism from Jay that he has a soul, so that implies he would still exist in some manner, and we also know that, in the canon of this show, there's a heaven and a hell.  Many religions teach the concept of an immortal soul that, though without a physical body, is a continuation of the person, has a consciousness, and can be judged.  I guess we're getting into both metaphysics and theology here, but I'm now inclined to think he'd continue to exist consciously by some definition, though how and where is anyone's guess.

We're probably taking this more seriously than the show is, but as far as the show goes, I'm assuming that a soul and a ghost are the same thing. At least that's what I've always assumed a soul was - manifested as a ghost. These ghosts, or souls, are earthbound. And yes, they've established there is a Hell on this show (and it's mostly e-mails and Zooms that should be e-mails), but I don't think they've ever explicitly stated there's a heaven, have they? I know the maid went somewhere nice but did she say heaven? I guess we're meant to assume that.

Since ghosts that are sucked off to to heaven, presumably, and ghosts that "go down" go to hell, then I assume whatever happens to Pete if he completely disappears is different. He wouldn't go to either place, his soul would simply cease to exist. Sobering thought.

[KarenX]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

We're probably taking this more seriously than the show is, but as far as the show goes, I'm assuming that a soul and a ghost are the same thing. At least that's what I've always assumed a soul was - manifested as a ghost. These ghosts, or souls, are earthbound. And yes, they've established there is a Hell on this show (and it's mostly e-mails and Zooms that should be e-mails), but I don't think they've ever explicitly stated there's a heaven, have they? I know the maid went somewhere nice but did she say heaven? I guess we're meant to assume that.

Since ghosts that are sucked off to to heaven, presumably, and ghosts that "go down" go to hell, then I assume whatever happens to Pete if he completely disappears is different. He wouldn't go to either place, his soul would simply cease to exist. Sobering thought.

Maybe his parts are appearing in Sucked Off or Go Down when they disappear from his sight. Maybe Pete’s soulself being able to leave the grounds is some kind of indication that he is ready to move on, but his head keeps leading him back to his ghost friends. He doesn’t want to leave them. It’s a conflict.

[iMonrey]

I re-watched this for maybe the fourth time and noticed a few new things.

Jay's eyes were tearing up as he listened to his father tell his mother he was the best cook he'd ever seen.

Isaac did refer to Pete's "soul" being in Jay's body so they are using the terms "soul" and "ghost" interchangeably.

They have redesigned the basement set since the pilot episode when Sam told Jay how to fix the water heater the first time. It's in a completely different spot and the whole room is turned around. 

Zombie Jay is hilarious no matter how many times I watch this. His attraction to Sonic fries must be purely physical.

[shapeshifter]

On 1/12/2025 at 12:13 PM, iMonrey said:

Since ghosts that are sucked off to to heaven, presumably, and ghosts that "go down" go to hell, then I assume whatever happens to Pete if he completely disappears is different. He wouldn't go to either place, his soul would simply cease to exist. Sobering thought.

There's a wide variety of beliefs about afterlife, quite a few included in the Wikipedia article on Afterlife. The Sufi belief seems different than many; it could be interesting if Sam encounters a Sufi ghost:

Quote

The Sufi Muslim scholar Ibn 'Arabi defined Barzakh as the intermediate realm or "isthmus". It is between the world of corporeal bodies and the world of spirits, and is a means of contact between the two worlds. Without it, there would be no contact between the two and both would cease to exist. He described it as simple and luminous, like the world of spirits, but also able to take on many different forms just like the world of corporeal bodies can. In broader terms Barzakh, "is anything that separates two things". It has been called the dream world in which the dreamer is in both life and death.[89]

wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife#Sufism