S02.E05: Don't Be Afraid, Just Start the Tape

[AngieBee1]

We're back in San Francisco, 1973 to get further details on the aborted interview between Louis and Daniel.

 

[Harvey]

Finally, we get the real Armand this episode.

Him torturing Daniel was hard to watch, not to mention attempt at hurting Lestat through Louis.

It made me sad🥲

[magdalene]

I hope those who were suckered into believing that Armand was the healthy rebound from "toxic" Lestat had a bit of a wake-up call.

I always knew I don't want to watch this show without Lestat so as well acted as this was I had a hard time getting through the episode with its brutality and unrelenting misery not tempered by Lestat's presence.

While we only saw first season Lestat through the twisted lens of Louis' self-loathing and depression there was enough of real Lestat to balance some of this out. Suicidal depression is not entertaining to me.

The actor they got for young Daniel is most excellent.

To have the flow of the show constantly interrupted by the same three insipid commercials is awful. AMC+ is really the worst streaming channel.

Edited June 9 by magdalene

[AngieBee1]

6 hours ago, magdalene said:

I hope those who were suckered into believing that Armand was the healthy rebound from "toxic" Lestat had a bit of a wake-up call.

I would not have said healthy, but a healthier alternative than toxic Lestat. They're both toxic - they're all toxic; they are vampires after all and none have been bathed in glory. But to me, the difference is that while Armand has that ruthlessness to him,it seems to have not been - prior to that bang up 1973 incident - directed at Louis. If Armand had meted out the same level of verbal/emotional abuse that Lestat had towards Louis, I don't think Louis would have lobbed the accusations that Armand is boring, beige and soft.

When he asked, something to the effect of, "do you want to lick my boot or cut my hand off. Am I going to get the gremlin or the good nurse?" it seems that Louis is frustrated because he knows what Armand is capable of and knows that there are times Armand wants to hurt him, but doesn't. Louis wants the fight. He wants to feel. Not too long ago Jacob Anderson said in an interview about Louis: "I think there’s an element of Louis that just like “I don’t want peace, I want problems, always." . In another when asked why Louis and complicated men, Jacob said Louis is the complicated man. 

Louis probably really thought he wanted a peaceful, quiet life after the tumult of Lestat, but realized he yearns for the challenge. To me, that's why he took Lestat back. After six years Louis isn't lured in with gifts, but as soon as he heard Antoinette on the song, he jumps into the Mississippi River to lay his claim to Lestat.  Louis doesn't want a partner to defer to him (Armand calling him Maître). 

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

I would not have said healthy, but a healthier alternative than toxic Lestat. They're both toxic - they're all toxic; they are vampires after all and none have been bathed in glory. But to me, the difference is that while Armand has that ruthlessness to him,it seems to have not been - prior to that bang up 1973 incident - directed at Louis. If Armand had meted out the same level of verbal/emotional abuse that Lestat had towards Louis, I don't think Louis would have lobbed the accusations that Armand is boring, beige and soft.

When he asked, something to the effect of, "do you want to lick my boot or cut my hand off. Am I going to get the gremlin or the good nurse?" it seems that Louis is frustrated because he knows what Armand is capable of and knows that there are times Armand wants to hurt him, but doesn't. Louis wants the fight. He wants to feel. Not too long ago Jacob Anderson said in an interview about Louis: "I think there’s an element of Louis that just like “I don’t want peace, I want problems, always." . In another when asked why Louis and complicated men, Jacob said Louis is the complicated man. 

Louis probably really thought he wanted a peaceful, quiet life after the tumult of Lestat, but realized he yearns for the challenge. To me, that's why he took Lestat back. After six years Louis isn't lured in with gifts, but as soon as he heard Antoinette on the song, he jumps into the Mississippi River to lay his claim to Lestat.  Louis doesn't want a partner to defer to him (Armand calling him Maître). 

The problem with that scenario is that I actually do not believe that a lot of Louis's POV of Lestat is true or trustworthy. There has been nothing in two seasons from Lestat's POV.  Why would I believe either clinically depressed suicidal Louis? Or worse malicious manipulator Armand, who has good reason to be very resentful of both Lestat and Louis?

I actually do feel sorry for Louis but he is a very frustrating character to love.  But you are never going to make me side with Armand, especially if we are heading towards him 

Spoiler

Claudia's executioner?

It is a very big ask to make me forget that I have loved Lestat for 30+ years and just believe Armand and Louis  when Lestat has not been given a voice on this show.

Edited June 9 by magdalene

[babyrambo]

Young-Daniel becoming who he is in the present day makes so much sense now that the truth (?) about San Francisco has been revealed. I thought the balance of humour and horror was very well done (at least until things completely went left). Daniel’s delivery of “Are you the zodiac killer?” and “I could be your Lestat; your Claudia. But better.” was funny. Despite the latter remark being  immature, arrogant, and shortsighted.

But that’s the thing with vampirism in this story, so much flash and supposed power, yet you don’t really know the entirety of its pain until you’re in it. And then, like was mentioned in this episode, it’s too late. No take backs.

Kind of like with Louis and Armand‘s relationship; both miserable and seemly stuck. Their fight in the 70s was so vicious and revealing—I certainly wouldn’t stick it out with someone after they admitted I was a simpering bore that could never compare to their old lover but to each their own—that I can’t imagine why they’re even together. Is bland, bitter companionship better than an eternity alone? I don’t think so but I’m sure Armand is also doing some sinister string pulling behind Louis’ back. For all his supposed power he’s always come off as quite tepid to me. This was the first episode that fully convinced me of the depth of his capacity for cruelty.

I did miss Paris/Claudia in the beginning, but this was a really interesting episode. They’ve finally upped the stakes & I hope this energy keeps until the end. 

[Mari]

I read a couple of the books, but it was very very very long ago. Therefore, the details are quite foggy.  I'm treating the TV series as its own thing, since they've made enough changes, it might as well be, in many ways.

Armand made a comment about Lestat chasing/coming for Louis again.  Do you think Lestat has tracked them down before in the TV version?  And if so, does Louis know that?

Armand's motive--was it jealousy/possessiveness of Louis, of Louis' relationship with Lestat, or just general ownership?  And how much editing of Louis' brain has he done?  Because that is not something I see happening just once.  It seems more likely it happens whenever Armand feels it is necessary.

[Mari]

32 minutes ago, babyrambo said:

Kind of like with Louis and Armand‘s relationship; both miserable and seemly stuck. Their fight in the 70s was so vicious and revealing—I certainly wouldn’t stick it out with someone after they admitted I was a simpering bore that could never compare to their old lover but to each their own—that I can’t imagine why they’re even together. Is bland, bitter companionship better than an eternity alone? I don’t think so but I’m sure Armand is also doing some sinister string pulling behind Louis’ back. For all his supposed power he’s always come off as quite tepid to me. This was the first episode that fully convinced me of the depth of his capacity for cruelty.

Could it be a combination of things?  Louis is young enough Armand can remodel his brain occasionally when necessary, is challenging in interesting ways, and extra-shiny-bonus--Lestat wants him.  Plus, it seems like Armand has serious abandonment issues.  

[ruby24]

So...Armand is mind controlling Louis and periodically editing his brain, right? And he's been doing this for years? It seems like in the 70's, Armand and Louis know Lestat is alive, hence what Armand was saying about Louis wanting him to come chasing after him again. But in the present day Louis doesn't seem to know what happened to Claudia, and also thinks Lestat is dead, right?

So I'm taking that to mean that whenever Louis remembers or gets close to remembering the truth Armand goes in and alters his brain again to make him stay with him.

I don't mind that explanation, I just want to make sure I'm getting that right.

I hope that we get real Lestat this season. Hopefully after the next episode he makes his big return? 

[Irlandesa]

I absolutely loved the chemistry in the scene where Armand was about to kill young Daniel.  I've appreciated Armand well enough but that was probably my first whew moment with him.  I suspect having Lestat back won't just usher in that dynamic character but a more dynamic Armand as well--even if it's more outrightly evil.

[PurpleTentacle]

Uh, this episode was spicy. I was glued to the screen throughout. Usually I'm quite easily distracted, so that is saying something.

That young actor also really made me believe that it was the same character as the Daniel we've seen for almost two seasons now. Very well done.

Armand can also edit other Vampire's minds. Did we know that was a possibility? I don't think we did, from the show at least. Now Louis's forgetfullness makes a lot more sense. I wonder when Armand decided to start doing it. Because it doesn't seem like he started before the original interview. That argument he and Louis had didn't sound like Louis had ever forgotten anything. I think it might have been shortly after the interview. I think hearing Lestat say that he still loved Louis, broke something in him and he saw that Louis would leave him instantly if he and Lestat ever met up again.

[PurpleTentacle]

22 hours ago, magdalene said:

I hope those who were suckered into believing that Armand was the healthy rebound from "toxic" Lestat had a bit of a wake-up call.

There are people like that? I think Assad Zaman plays the character brilliantly. You could always tell that there was something seriously off about him.

Lestat is toxic as hell, no quotation marks needed, but at least with him you know what you get. Armand seems very creepy, stealthy in his abuse and is supernaturally good at gaslighting.

I think I'd take Lestat over Armand, though if I'd have any choice in the matter, I'd chose neither. Both are horrible boyfriend material. There have to be some better options out there, even amoung vampires.

[Snow Apple]

The actor who played young Daniel is amazing. I hope we get more flashbacks with him.

Oh my. The visual effect of Louis in the sun was impressive. But then burned Louis was horrible. I could hardly watch those scenes. It looked too realistic to me. They need to submit the makeup artist for an Emmy. Or is it computer generated? I don't about know much about these things nowadays.

Edited June 10 by Snow Apple

[Chaos Theory]

I know a lot of people are watching for Lestat but I am watching for the scenes with Louis and Malloy.   I loved both past and present scenes and having old Malloy so haunted by what happened that it fucked up his entire life.

Edited June 10 by Chaos Theory

[Ohiopirate02]

On 6/9/2024 at 8:03 AM, magdalene said:

To have the flow of the show constantly interrupted by the same three insipid commercials is awful. AMC+ is really the worst streaming channel.

I decided to splurge to get the ad-free version, and it sounds like it was a wise decision.  The extra 3 bucks felt like nothing when I plan on cancelling the service as soon as this season ends.  

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, magdalene said:

The problem with that scenario is that I actually do not believe that a lot of Louis's POV of Lestat is true or trustworthy. There has been nothing in two seasons from Lestat's POV.  Why would I believe either clinically depressed suicidal Louis? Or worse malicious manipulator Armand, who has good reason to be very resentful of both Lestat and Louis?

I actually do feel sorry for Louis but he is a very frustrating character to love.  But you are never going to make me side with Armand, especially if we are heading towards him 

  Hide contents

Claudia's executioner?

It is a very big ask to make me forget that I have loved Lestat for 30+ years and just believe Armand and Louis  when Lestat has not been given a voice on this show.

After this episode, anything Louis said about Lestat and his relationship with Lestat in the vicinity of Armand is suspect.  The show makes that abundantly clear with the way Armand acted in the flashback.  It cannot be the actual truth when we see Armand messing with Louis's mind, and I now have to wonder how many times Armand has done this to Louis.  He was way too quick with all those "rest"s for this to be the first time.  

15 hours ago, babyrambo said:

Young-Daniel becoming who he is in the present day makes so much sense now that the truth (?) about San Francisco has been revealed. I thought the balance of humour and horror was very well done (at least until things completely went left). Daniel’s delivery of “Are you the zodiac killer?” and “I could be your Lestat; your Claudia. But better.” was funny. Despite the latter remark being  immature, arrogant, and shortsighted.

 

My favorite Daniel related bits of humor are him recalling the freebaser who Richard Pryored himself only to finally realize that was Louis, and his reactions during the "did we, you know, back in San Francisco?" exchange and Louis propositioning him in Dubai.

[Mari]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

After this episode, anything Louis said about Lestat and his relationship with Lestat in the vicinity of Armand is suspect.  The show makes that abundantly clear with the way Armand acted in the flashback.  It cannot be the actual truth when we see Armand messing with Louis's mind, and I now have to wonder how many times Armand has done this to Louis.  He was way too quick with all those "rest"s for this to be the first time.  

We know Armand can delete or cover up memories. 

Can he implant them?  If he wanted Daniel or Louis to believe they saw a platypus eating a pickle, could he?

And, if he can, what are the limitations?  Because there might be a difference between implanting relatively trivial bits and retconning huge events in someone's life.  Or could he just amplify the impact of events that really occurred?

Edited June 10 by Mari

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

fter this episode, anything Louis said about Lestat and his relationship with Lestat in the vicinity of Armand is suspect.  The show makes that abundantly clear with the way Armand acted in the flashback.  It cannot be the actual truth when we see Armand messing with Louis's mind, and I now have to wonder how many times Armand has done this to Louis.  He was way too quick with all those "rest"s for this to be the first time. 

Bingo!

[nodorothyparker]

Haven't we already seen other scenes where Louis couldn't remember the way something happened and realized it only after he'd already told the story as fact? It came up in his story about Claudia in Eastern Europe. He also asked Armand for pages of one of Claudia's diaries that had been removed because he seemingly couldn't remember what was on them.

Reading interviews about this episode, I found it telling that the actors repeatedly made the point that we haven't actually met Lestat yet. We've only seen him through Louis's and briefly Armand's tellings and as this episode made abundantly clear, neither are exactly reliable narrators. Armand clearly has an axe to grind where Lestat's concerned and we, and Louis at this point, really can't know how many of his memories are accurate or what's been planted or erased.

[magdalene]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Reading interviews about this episode, I found it telling that the actors repeatedly made the point that we haven't actually met Lestat yet. We've only seen him through Louis's and briefly Armand's tellings and as this episode made abundantly clear, neither are exactly reliable narrators. Armand clearly has an axe to grind where Lestat's concerned and we, and Louis at this point, really can't know how many of his memories are accurate or what's been planted or erased.

Oh, thank you, I have been harping about this endlessly because I find it so hard to believe that the character we met in season 1 is truthful to Lestat.

[silverstream]

6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

  It cannot be the actual truth when we see Armand messing with Louis's mind, and I now have to wonder how many times Armand has done this to Louis.  He was way too quick with all those "rest"s for this to be the first time. 

That scene sucked me in so much I didn't realize until halfway through it was an almost exact repeat of what Santiago was doing to the victims in the climatic scene of the TdV performances, which just gives the whole thing an additional delicious layer.

Edited June 10 by silverstream

[nodorothyparker]

 

I have been harping about this endlessly because I find it so hard to believe that the character we met in season 1 is truthful to Lestat.

I would say yes and no to this. Sam Reid has been nothing short of a revelation in nailing how big and over the top a personality Lestat is, in understanding that he can totally be "too much" while just really not being able to help himself. But there have also been a number of points where it felt like Louis was painting him as the absolute worst to absolve himself from any fault and excuse what he and Claudia did.

A fair amount of Louis's bitching bitching bitching about Lestat to Daniel in the flashback was lifted straight off the page, and as more than one reviewer has said, sounded very much like a man who wasn't at all over the object of all that bitching. He certainly didn't sound like a guy who'd moved on even a little bit from his ex decades before.  It's actually really telling that for all of Louis's complaining about the sturm und drang that the Louis/Lestat relationship was, it's all he wants to talk about and his first big complaint about Armand, even with all the mind altering we suspect Armand is doing to keep this train rolling, is how boring his life with Armand is. I know we were probably supposed to see Louis's suicide attempt as a great tragedy, but it came across as more dramatics from someone who clearly craves that despite what he might otherwise claim.

The funniest reveal of this episode has to be that Daniel in his prime was totally game to fuck a guy he thought was cosplaying a vampire in his coffin for a good story and some blow.

Edited June 11 by nodorothyparker

[iMonrey]

Wow I can't believe so many people liked this episode. I'm finding it harder and harder to make it through the season and this is the kind of episode that explains why. So much filler. I guess I might feel differently if I didn't already know the story but it just feels like there is so much padding before getting to what happens to Claudia.

Also, what is up with the weird cuts to commercials? It's like the episode had no natural stopping places so AMC just cut in arbitrarily every seven minutes for ads. Last week if felt like they cut off the very end and this week it felt that way before every commercial, they practically cut off scenes mid-sentence.

[ruby24]

Louis liked guys with a sense of humor because he doesn't have one. That's what I got from his interest in young Daniel and Lestat, and calling Armand boring. He needs the opposite of himself.

[Iguessnot]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Wow I can't believe so many people liked this episode. I'm finding it harder and harder to make it through the season and this is the kind of episode that explains why. So much filler. I guess I might feel differently if I didn't already know the story but it just feels like there is so much padding before getting to what happens to Claudia.

Also, what is up with the weird cuts to commercials? It's like the episode had no natural stopping places so AMC just cut in arbitrarily every seven minutes for ads. Last week if felt like they cut off the very end and this week it felt that way before every commercial, they practically cut off scenes mid-sentence.

I saw the movie once when it first came out and I never read any of the books. So I'm able to kind of sit back and enjoy the storytelling. 

[tennisgurl]

I have been looking forward to the 70s flashbacks being expanded, and I was not disappointed. That was crazy intense, I really could feel the heat and tension of being stuck in that room, Daniel being trapped dying in this shitty room with two vampires who clearly need couples counseling. 

The actor playing young Daniel was great, I can totally see him being the younger version of the Daniel we know, and I really liked him and Louis working together to figure out why they have so many blanks in their memories of that night. Knowing that Armand can manipulate Louis memories makes me question almost everything we've seen so far in the flashbacks, this could mean that the version of Lestat that we have seen isn't totally accurate to the real person and his relationship with Louis. Armand clearly hates Lestat and is envious of his relationship with Louis, so did Armand edit Louis memories to make Lestat seem worse then he was? 

Neither Armand and Lestat are exactly boyfriend material, but at least Lestat is pretty upfront and unapologetic about who is is (at least from what we saw) while Armand is so manipulative and his personality is so easily changed around who is around him, which does make sense given his backstory. Lestat was left alone to navigate being a vampire after a whole lot of trauma so he has this very intense self assured personality that takes the lead in any relationship he's in, while Armand was enslaved, abused, and passed around to people who wanted to use him, so you can see how he ended up working more subtly and tries to be the person that people seem to need him to be and looks at relationships at transactional. 

I had to laugh at Daniel asking Louis is he's the Zodiac Killer, which is a pretty fair question, and Louis going on and on about how much his ex sucks and how he's SO over him and he wasn't even that good at playing music like a teenager writing in their journal.