S02.E03: No Pain

[Mr. Sparkle]

May 26th, 2024

Armand tells the history of the Theatre des Vampires; Louis tells of his reluctance to join.

[AnimeMania]

[Harvey]

The killing of those people in the theater is just so over the top cruel and disturbing. A bit too much.

[magdalene]

Smiles. Ah, poor little boo bear Armand, another one done wrong by that fickle, capricious and cruel eeevil! Lestat.  At least the production is making it very clear in their after episodes segments that neither Louis and especially not Armand are reliable narrators.

Yes, these vampire are very cruel to humans. But they are also cruel to their own kind. Look what they are now doing to Claudia.

[Mari]

Claudia wanted desperately to join the coven.  Claudia also wanted to be autonomous and in charge of her own destiny.

I'm struggling to see how a remotely intelligent being could think those two things could coexist.  They call Armond Maitre.  He's the only one who can decide who kills.  He's the one who decides punishment for breaking laws.  They all perform in the same shows that they've been playing for 200 years because Armand decides what they do and he doesn't seem to be particularly gifted in coming up with his own ideas.

We're supposed to believe that the previously intelligent, conniving Claudia was unable to see that she was not a good fit for the coven?

[magdalene]

The irony is that Lestat meant to free the vampires of Paris when he tried to smash their beliefs and started that theater and Armand used this to enslave them for another 200 years.  And Louis is dumb as a post to bring Claudia with her highly problematic history into the power of Armand of all the vampires.  Sometimes Louis seems to grasp what peril they are in, but grief and guilt has him so paralyzed he is unable to act.

[Mari]

11 minutes ago, magdalene said:

 And Louis is dumb as a post to bring Claudia with her highly problematic history into the power of Armand of all the vampires.  Sometimes Louis seems to grasp what peril they are in, but grief and guilt has him so paralyzed he is unable to act.

I don't think past (and maybe present) Louis has really figured out how manipulative and controlling Armand truly is--and Louis is used to being controlled.

First by Lestat, and then after Claudia returned from her solo trip, by Claudia.  I don't think it even occurs to him to stand up to her, and for some unfathomable plot reason, this is what she wants.

[peridot]

I enjoyed this episode.  The introduction to the Talamascan's was cool / creepy.  I'm really surprised that the vampires aren't picking it up from Daniel's mind.

It was a bit startling to see the earlier vampires scurrying around like that, hiding in the sewers.  Lestat cracked me up, he just didn't give a shit.

Louis seems to be losing his mind.  I wasn't sure if Lestat was actually mentally haunting him, but it seems to be just his imagination.

I'm loving Santiago's contempt for Louis.  I'm surprised Louis is so nonchalant about the dangers of not joining the coven.

Poor Claudia and her role for the next 50 years.

[babyrambo]

Given the way Claudia was treated in New Orleans, her childish appearance, and the fact that if anything was to happen to Louis, getting around would be difficult for her, I understand Claudia wanting to find other ‘good ones’ to group up with. I’m just not sold on her keenness towards this specific coven. I’m aware she doesn’t have the same knowledge the audience does (Louis not telling Claudia that Armand and—presumably—the rest of the coven know the truth about Lestat’s death seems a little contrived though) but even before they initiated her & read off those rules (no kid vamps & no killing other vamps being the ones Claudia’s already broken) the coven held Lestat in high esteem and that alone should’ve warned her off. 

Despite them letting her join their hunts and now the coven, the creepy sameness of their actions and the repetition of the same stale show every night seems much more dull and stifling than Claudia usually goes for. I know she’s always had a desperate need to be accepted just as she is, stuck in this in-between point of adulthood and childishness and I get her being tired of searching for a place to belong, especially after years of roaming and that old world vampire that burning in front of her but given her ‘real’ age, clever perceptiveness and the aura of worn resignation she always carries, her immediately bypassing the tiny red flags in order to gain a ‘family’ plays as somewhat disingenuous to me.

If not for the acting, I wouldn’t be as interested. Delainey Hayles’ performance this season is fantastic; she’s doing an incredible job portraying all the challenging nuances of Claudia’s reality. S1 Claudia felt like a child play acting the part of an adult whilst here she seems fractured and resentful, the perfect balance of wary curiosity and childish naïveté, desperation. The look on her face when she was presented with that tacky blue dress and told she would be playing a baby for the next fifty years was heartbreaking. Her expression went from confused to disappointed to an almost horrified dread in the span of a few seconds and she completely sold me on the bitter hopelessness of her situation. She’s trapped to play the exact role she’s been trying to outrun her entire life and all she can do is endure.  How painful. 

Right now, Claudia is the character I’m the most invested in but even with her, the writing feels uneven and disjointed. And as much as the other actors try to elevate the hit or miss writing of this season, Daniel is right, Les/Lou/Mand come off like a Telenovela and the ‘my-husband-his-husband-and-me’ maneuvering is getting a bit old.

[iMonrey]

I'm getting a little bored with this. It feels like there's just a lot of padding to stretch the story out. This episode, especially, felt like a lot of filler.

I'm probably impatient because I know how the story ends and I feel like it's taking too long to get there. And I don't like the extra story that's being added to the whole Theatre de Vampire section because that's my least favorite part. As others have already pointed out, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Claudia to be so laser focused on joining this coven knowing what it will entail in terms of her own agency. The additions they try to add to stretch out the story are inorganic and sometimes contradictory to the source material. 

[magdalene]

As somebody who read these books years ago this season especially is very frustrating. Louis is not a very dynamic character.  And all those non-reading folks gushing about sweet woobie Armand treating Louis right makes me roll my eyes.  I sure hope the producers have a pay-off coming.

Well I am doing my part to try to get this show to better parts by subscribing to the awful amc+ solely for it. Does anybody know how the ratings are so far?

[nodorothyparker]

The only way the story they're currently telling works at all is they're really leaning hard into the unreliable narrator. If Armand is completely full of it and just manipulating the fuck out of everyone, especially Louis of the faulty memory, then yeah, okay. They can still more or less get to the same general ballpark storywise. It feels like our boys very much need a narrative where Claudia ran headlong into the coven's embrace of her own free will for them to be able to live with it still together all these years later. 

I'll be honest that I'm half watching the clock when Lestat isn't on screen. The actor and the character are just such a huge presence and letting him be Louis's delusion/guilty conscience has been a clever workaround to give him screentime in this section of the story but it's also having the effect of making so much else on screen look colorless by comparison. 

Raglan James name drop!

[silverstream]

20 hours ago, babyrambo said:

The look on her face when she was presented with that tacky blue dress and told she would be playing a baby for the next fifty years was heartbreaking.

That was such a gutpunch!

I really liked the score this episode.

Anybody else find it unintentionally hilarious when Nicky/Lestat's boyfriend turns around playing the violin while watching Lestat and Armand on the balcony?

I had to go back and check twice that the guy in the restaurant with Daniel and the guy that butted in during Louis' and Armand's conversation in the cafe weren't the same person, they looked so similar.

I understand why Claudia wanted to join the coven (especially given that she wasn't told the rules beforehand) - first of all, she seems genuinely enchanted with the theatre, so that was probably a huge pull. And her other attempts to find vampires weren't exactly successful. We know Armand mentioned a 'London coven' to Louis, but Louis and Claudia don't seem to spend much time together anymore. And of course just when he is about to tell her after all, she opens up about what happened to her with Bruce - very convenient timing to have a reason for him not telling her.

[patty1h]

I didn't understand what Daniel and "Raglan" were talking about in the first scene in the restaurant.  Raglan recognized Daniel as a writer and it was ??? after that.  Can someone please break it down for me.  

[Ohiopirate02]

11 hours ago, patty1h said:

I didn't understand what Daniel and "Raglan" were talking about in the first scene in the restaurant.  Raglan recognized Daniel as a writer and it was ??? after that.  Can someone please break it down for me.  

Raglan works for an organization called the Talamasca.  Their MO is to watch and record anything supernatural that happens in the world.  If you watched the first season of Mayfair Witches, it's the same organization that Ciprian works for.  Raglan and the Talamasca know about Armand, Louis, Lestat, etc., and they also know that Daniel has met Louis back in the 70s.  We see that Raglan has hacked into Daniel's computer and downloaded some Talamasca files onto it.  And Daniel is intrigued enough to open said files while interviewing Armand and when Louis and Armand leave the room.

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'll be honest that I'm half watching the clock when Lestat isn't on screen. The actor and the character are just such a huge presence and letting him be Louis's delusion/guilty conscience has been a clever workaround to give him screentime in this section of the story but it's also having the effect of making so much else on screen look colorless by comparison. 

I'm really sick of "imaginary Lestat." I don't give two figs about the actor or the character, and I know he's not really supposed to be in this part of the story so his constant presence just feels like gimmicky fan service to me. 

[Ohiopirate02]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm really sick of "imaginary Lestat." I don't give two figs about the actor or the character, and I know he's not really supposed to be in this part of the story so his constant presence just feels like gimmicky fan service to me. 

I don't mind the imaginary Lestat now that Louis and Claudia are in Paris.  I think the mistake the show made was having him show up in Romania and now we have 3 episodes of him appearing.  Lestat was a part of the Paris Coven, Armand and others knew him, and Lestat's "murder" is hanging over both Louis and Claudia's heads like the Sword of Damocles.  This is where Imaginary Lestat should be showing up especially with Louis and Armand dancing around each other.  

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't mind the imaginary Lestat now that Louis and Claudia are in Paris.  I think the mistake the show made was having him show up in Romania and now we have 3 episodes of him appearing.  Lestat was a part of the Paris Coven, Armand and others knew him, and Lestat's "murder" is hanging over both Louis and Claudia's heads like the Sword of Damocles.  This is where Imaginary Lestat should be showing up especially with Louis and Armand dancing around each other.  

Here's the thing: I only ever read the first book in the series, and that was eons ago. I barely remember it. I've seen the movie more recently. So I know the story. But I'm not particularly invested in Lestat the way a fan of the whole book series might be. So, knowing he shouldn't really be there is annoying to me. I'm hyper aware it's a gimmick to give the actor something to do, because they know they will need him going forward. Also, the "dead" character "haunting" the living character is an overused narrative device in movies and TV. 

[magdalene]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm really sick of "imaginary Lestat." I don't give two figs about the actor or the character, and I know he's not really supposed to be in this part of the story so his constant presence just feels like gimmicky fan service to me. 

You are watching the wrong show then because Lestat is the main character in Anne Rice's vampire ouvre and she had an obsessive love for him. And so probably do a lot of the fans, grins.  The show could of course end with this season but if and when it goes on Lestat will be prominently featured in it.

[Irlandesa]

I don't think it's fan service.  I think it's because he does feature into the story moving forward.  They're paying the actor so they probably feel like they should use him. 

I kind of like the small bits of him.  I don't need more if they're going to make him as toxic as they did last season but I do like the humor he adds.

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think it's fan service.  I think it's because he does feature into the story moving forward.  They're paying the actor so they probably feel like they should use him. 

I kind of like the small bits of him.  I don't need more if they're going to make him as toxic as they did last season but I do like the humor he adds.

It will be interesting to see Lestat from Lestat's POV instead of Louis or Armand.  Louis and his self-loathing are painting Lestat as more toxic than what he may be.  And Armand has an agenda.  Being a book reader, I could spot the inaccuracies in Armand's recollections.  

[magdalene]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It will be interesting to see Lestat from Lestat's POV instead of Louis or Armand.  Louis and his self-loathing are painting Lestat as more toxic than what he may be.  And Armand has an agenda.  Being a book reader, I could spot the inaccuracies in Armand's recollections.  

Yes, I hope everybody gets to meet the actual Lestat, in addition to the distorted version and the outright lies.

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, magdalene said:

You are watching the wrong show then because Lestat is the main character in Anne Rice's vampire ouvre and she had an obsessive love for him. And so probably do a lot of the fans, grins.  The show could of course end with this season but if and when it goes on Lestat will be prominently featured in it.

You are essentially saying "This show is only for people who are book devotees. Nobody else need apply." Indeed, it does not appear than anyone who isn't a fan of the books is watching this show. The "book v. show" thread has more activity than the episode threads. That doesn't strike me as a winning formula for longevity in a TV show.

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think it's fan service.  I think it's because he does feature into the story moving forward.  They're paying the actor so they probably feel like they should use him. 

It's the same difference. His incessant appearances in Louis' mind are invented whole cloth for this show for the reason you describe. "We know this character is popular and important later on so we must find a way to feature him even though he wasn't originally part of this story." That's fan service.

[tennisgurl]

You can just hear Claudia's "I made a huge mistake" as soon as they pulled out that tacky blue dress, pretending to be a baby every night for 50 years sounds like her definition of Hell. I can buy that Claudia got enchanted by this coven, other than Louis and Lestat she has basically never known any other vampires, so I get her latching onto the first ones she meets, especially when she sees them as so fun and glamourous. Plus, they like to play with their food in the creepy ways she does, unlike Louis who just kills to survive. She is desperate for autonomy and being recognized as a whole (adult) person, but also is desperate for belonging. 

Performing the same show/murder for decades sounds awful, but I guess it beats living in filth in tunnels and ruins while crawling around like rats. Armand might just be a shitty leader. Say what you will about Lestat but he certainly wouldn't have gotten stuck in two decades long ruts. 

Its fun seeing Lestat in the past and that he is still haunting Louis, who is clearly very close to cracking. Bad choices being made left and right. 

Enter the Talamasca.

Edited May 29 by tennisgurl

[Mari]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:20 PM, peridot said:

Louis seems to be losing his mind.  I wasn't sure if Lestat was actually mentally haunting him, but it seems to be just his imagination.

I'm kind of bummed about that.  I was hoping it was Lestat's spirit--and think the show should have let it BE actual Lestat.

No, it didn't happen that way in the books, but they've kind of thrown most of canon into an incinerator, anyway, so why not?

22 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 And Armand has an agenda.  Being a book reader, I could spot the inaccuracies in Armand's recollections.  

What I'm wondering about is how much of Armand's inaccuracies are outright lies, and how many are what he needs/wants to be the truth?

 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 I can buy that Claudia got enchanted by this coven, other than Louis and Lestat she has basically never known any other vampires, so I get her latching onto the first ones she meets, especially when she sees them as so fun and glamourous. Plus, they like to play with their food in the creepy ways she does, unlike Louis who just kills to survive.

There are definitely a few ways this Claudia is much more Lestat's child than Louis'.  

[magdalene]

23 minutes ago, Mari said:

What I'm wondering about is how much of Armand's inaccuracies are outright lies, and how many are what he needs/wants to be the truth?

There are two big lies in Armand's "recollections" that can only be utterly self-serving. I am going to spoiler this because it's  book knowledge 

Spoiler

Armand was not happy and secretly pleased Lestat seduced his coven away.  He got utterly pissed and killed most of the coven over it.  Lestat did not start that horrid tradition of killing humans on stage.

Also, Lestat never needed to learn any vamp skills from Armand and he never even pretended to be in love with Armand.

The only thing that is true is the wooden crucifix scene.

[Mari]

But both of those presume that Lestat's version is the "true" version.  Lestat's version is not necessarily any more true than Louis' or Armand's version.

It is entirely possible--even likely--that Armand is lying about some things.  But it's also entirely possible that what Armand remembers is not quite the same thing that Lestat does or thought important to share.

For example, a few nights together might have been much more important to Armand than to Lestat, and therefore one would emphasize it and the other ignore it.

Another example might be Lestat's abusive behavior season 1.

It's a huge deal to Louis.  Lestat might not see it the same way--his attitude towards violence between them could cause him to minimize it or justify it to himself. 

If Daniel found anything in it to contradict that in Claudia's diaries, he would have brought it up.  That gives it some weight.

Lestat not mentioning it in the "true" version wouldn't make it any less true. 

Edited May 30 by Mari

[steph369]

It was good to see more of Lestat, but what’s with all the subtitles! I hate having to read subtitles. If I want to read, I’ll pick up a book. Especially when Lestat is up, I want to look at him on the screen, not words. I would much prefer they speak in English. We’re swift enough to grasp that they are actually speaking in French. 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Never read the books so I'm not a big fan. Season One was ok,but I'm done with the series,rather bored with it.  I'll find other shows to watch on Sunday night like Masterpiece Theatre or something on PBS. 

[magdalene]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:21 AM, iMonrey said:

You are essentially saying "This show is only for people who are book devotees. Nobody else need apply." Indeed, it does not appear than anyone who isn't a fan of the books is watching this show. The "book v. show" thread has more activity than the episode threads. That doesn't strike me as a winning formula for longevity in a TV show.

It's the same difference. His incessant appearances in Louis' mind are invented whole cloth for this show for the reason you describe. "We know this character is popular and important later on so we must find a way to feature him even though he wasn't originally part of this story." That's fan service.

I can't stress enough that if you hate Lestat You should stop watching. He is the main character going forward. Very, very main character. And he won't just talk, he will also sing - a lot.