The Divergent Series

[wanderingstar]

It's because the script was trying too hard. Every one of his lines sounds hand-selected for maximum "brooding love interest guy" effect.

 

 

Yes! That's it! He just never felt like a real character to me - and his pretty was not enough to mitigate that.

[methodwriter85]

I think the only characters who felt fully realized where Jeanine, Tris, and Peter, and I think it's largely due to the actors.

 

I hate to pick at it, because I actually will follow this franchise, but wow, it's amazing it actually didn't crash and burn considering all the marks it has against it. Although that's not a guarantee the second movie won't make this go the way of Percy Jackson.

 

They are seriously lucky they have Shailene Woodley at the helm here. She really does have an ability to seem completely natural in her acting and she's really the only thing grounding this franchise, aside from Kate's Jeanine.

 

Anyway, Cinema Sins ripped this one to shreds:

 

Edited January 11, 2015 by methodwriter85

[BooBear]

HA!!

[GaT]

"But not truthful enough to be in Candor, you lying whore" LMAO!

[BatmanBeatles]

Honest Trailers is pretty funny too,

 

Edited January 12, 2015 by BatmanBeatles

[methodwriter85]

"Witness a creepy romance bloom between Tris and her much, much older trainer with an equally dumb name." HA!

 

It's so true. Good thing Tris is now rocking Shailene's pixie, which makes Tris look more like Shailene's age.

[ribboninthesky1]

I just watched this last night, and I'm surprised to read that Tris was supposed to be older than 16.  Everything about her seemed adolescent, which is fine, but it was less hot than creepy that she ended up with brooding, grown ass man Four. 

 

"Journey to an overly complicated future..." This is hilarious and very accurate.

 

I'll assume the book is better, because this film was...lacking.  A lot.  Which is saying something, given that it was WELL over two hours long. Theo James, who really didn't have much to do, was not shirtless enough to overcome it.  Kind of a waste.  I appreciate the close-ups, though.  A man with nice lips is hard to resist.  I need to watch him in something with his native accent plus said close-ups, possibly shirtless.  My, my, my!

 

I also had an irrational annoyance with the way they pronounced erudite in the film.  They added an extra syllable, and it drove me crazy.  

 

This film was an interesting case study in what happens when you have several talented, experienced actors come together in a crappy film targeted to teens.  I really have to wonder what Kate Winslet thought when she read the script.  Maybe it seemed more profound on paper?  Not sure what Tony Goldwyn was doing there, either.  Ashley Judd could have been interesting, but she was shot before any more layers were peeled.  And how do you have actors like Maggie Q and Ray Stevenson without the ass-kicking?  Madness, I tell you.       

[absnow54]

I just watched this last night, and I'm surprised to read that Tris was supposed to be older than 16.  Everything about her seemed adolescent, which is fine, but it was less hot than creepy that she ended up with brooding, grown ass man Four.

I'm fuzzy on book details, but I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be 16 in the books and Four is supposed to be 18, but reads as someone much older (until the third book at least.) That's why casting nearly 30 year old Theo James made sense.

 

This film was an interesting case study in what happens when you have several talented, experienced actors come together in a crappy film targeted to teens.

And the next movie is bringing on even more talented people like Naomi Watts, Octavia Spencer, and Daniel Dae Kim. I wish the source material was better because they've had some outstanding casting. 

[BatmanBeatles]

 

"Journey to an overly complicated future..." This is hilarious and very accurate.

I loved when Honest Trailers said the Sorting Hat was less complicated.

[Chicken Wing]

I also had an irrational annoyance with the way they pronounced erudite in the film.  They added an extra syllable, and it drove me crazy.

 

Ugh, I know. "Air-ee-you-dite"? Stop that!

[BooBear]

The honest trailer was also funny.

 

I thought the book was better but not by that much.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

I just watched this last night, and I'm surprised to read that Tris was supposed to be older than 16.  Everything about her seemed adolescent, which is fine, but it was less hot than creepy that she ended up with brooding, grown ass man Four.

 

Four is supposed to be a teenager, too, which makes me wonder why it is that Tris doesn't know him, considering they grew up in the same Faction and were only a couple of years apart in age.

[methodwriter85]

You're right, it doesn't make any sense, especially considering that Marcus Eaton was in a leadership role. His kids would have to be known.

 

My guess is that Veronica Roth WANTED to write Tobias as an older guy, but her editors refused to let her, and casting Theo was her way of having Four be the older guy like she always intended.

[ribboninthesky1]

And the next movie is bringing on even more talented people like Naomi Watts, Octavia Spencer, and Daniel Dae Kim. I wish the source material was better because they've had some outstanding casting. 

 

I guess you take parts where you can get them.  Actors like Kate, Tony, and Ashley presumably don't need the money, which is why I don't understand their involvement.  I can't speak to the situation with Watts, Spencer, and Kim.  But I assume the latter two don't exactly have Hollywood knocking down their doors with decent roles, either.  Or maybe they all just wanted to be part of a popular franchise.

[Dejana]

This film was an interesting case study in what happens when you have several talented, experienced actors come together in a crappy film targeted to teens. I really have to wonder what Kate Winslet thought when she read the script. Maybe it seemed more profound on paper? Not sure what Tony Goldwyn was doing there, either. Ashley Judd could have been interesting, but she was shot before any more layers were peeled. And how do you have actors like Maggie Q and Ray Stevenson without the ass-kicking? Madness, I tell you.

Darn that JK Rowling for not writing in a character I'd have been the right age to play, but I suppose this Divergent will still help pay for the summer house...

Theo James had a short-but-memorable arc on the first season of Downton Abbey that definitely included shirtlessness.

[Zuleikha]

Daniel Dae Kim has not been hurting for work. He went from a main role in Lost to a main role in Hawaii 5-0 with what looks to be a fair amount of voice acting on the side. But TV actors all seem to want to also do movies, and people seemed to think Divergent might be as big as Hunger Games.

[Hybridcookie]

ribboninthesky1, on 12 Jan 2015 - 6:08 PM, said:

 

I'll assume the book is better, because this film was...lacking.  A lot.  Which is saying something, given that it was WELL over two hours long. Theo James, who really didn't have much to do, was not shirtless enough to overcome it.  Kind of a waste.  I appreciate the close-ups, though.  A man with nice lips is hard to resist.  I need to watch him in something with his native accent plus said close-ups, possibly shirtless.  My, my, my!

 

 

      

 

Theo James was a lead in a show called Bedlam, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1822448/?ref_=nv_sr_1 all about ghosts,  and from what I remember, there were shirtless scenes

[Rick Kitchen]

Theo James also starred in a short-lived series called "Golden Boy", a series told in flashbacks about the New York City Police Commissioner and how he rose through the ranks from rookie cop.

[ribboninthesky1]

Daniel Dae Kim has not been hurting for work. He went from a main role in Lost to a main role in Hawaii 5-0 with what looks to be a fair amount of voice acting on the side. But TV actors all seem to want to also do movies, and people seemed to think Divergent might be as big as Hunger Games.

 

I was referring to films, not TV.  Octavia Spencer had a main role on a TV show as well, though I'm not sure if it's still on.  As I said, it could be as simple as wanting to be involved with a popular franchise.  To be fair, there's not much outside of this genre, comic/superhero, Disney/Pixar, and Oscar bait these days.       

[Chicken Wing]

So apparently Insurgent officially goes on sale today.

 

Does anyone even know this movie is coming out?

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, there's a decided lack of hype.

 

Here's the final trailer:

 

[Chicken Wing]

Deadline has Insurgent tracking for a $57M opening weekend.

 

If this is taking into account a portion of sales coming from 3D tickets, then that's pretty ... blah.

[methodwriter85]

I really, really hope they weren't stupid enough to up the budget on it like the Hunger Games did.

[Chicken Wing]

Well, they did have the brilliant idea to split Allegiant into two movies.

[absnow54]

I really, really hope they weren't stupid enough to up the budget on it like the Hunger Games did.

I feel like there's this disconnect between fantasy and reality, where the studio sees this as a Hunger Games level success, when it only made a fraction of the first film, and domestically, barely made back the production and advertising costs. Based on the special effects, I'm sure they upped Insurgent's budget, but I haven't seen any information on how much they spent. I also don't know what's going on with Lionsgate's promotional team, as they did a lackluster job advertising Mockingjay Part 1 (which I could understand because the franchise has built enough steam that people didn't really need to be reminded to see it) and now Insurgent seems to have the same half-assed campaign. Maybe they blew all their marketing budget on the pre-Super Bowl ad?

[methodwriter85]

Is it the same team that did the marketing for Catching Fire? Because that was absolutely brilliant and this...isn't.

 

I really won't be surprised if this winds up as another Percy Jackson.

[manbearpig]

Hopefully Insurgent will do well enough to get a sequel, but not so well that Lionsgate will continue thinking they can make two films out of Allegiant. Making one serviceable movie out of that mess is going to be difficult enough.

[GaT]

Hopefully Insurgent will do well enough to get a sequel, but not so well that Lionsgate will continue thinking they can make two films out of Allegiant. Making one serviceable movie out of that mess is going to be difficult enough.

Lionsgate/Summit Entertainment did Twilight & The Hunger Games, & they seem to be stuck with how they make movies from YA novels. They only thing I'm surprised at is there doesn't seem to be a love triangle (that I can see) in the Divergent movies. Maybe they haven't introduced it yet.

[Chicken Wing]

We lucked out with the fact that these books simply didn't have a love triangle in the story.

 

Everyone was freaking out a while back that the new character Edgar, played by Jonny Weston, was added to the story to create a triangle where there wasn't one in the books (which everyone appreciated). But it's been assured that that's not what he's for.

If anything, it's a triangle between him, Four and his mother. His role in the movie, supposedly, is that he's Evelyn's "right hand man" in Factionless and he feels threatened now that her long-lost son is back in the picture.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[methodwriter85]

Well, there is a love triangle in the books, but it involves a lesbian being in love with a supporting character who's in love with a male supporting character, and I'm not sure how much that it going to be touched on. With Tris, the closest we got to a love triangle in the first two books (I have yet to venture into Allegiant) was her friend that killed himself. He had a crush on Tris and tried to hit on her, but all that got cut out.

 

There were rumors that Edgar was being introduced to give the movie a love triangle, but Veronica Roth has flat-out denied there will be any kind of love triangle in the movies. He's basically Edward but recasted.

[Chicken Wing]

Well, there is a love triangle in the books, but it involves a lesbian being in love with a supporting character who's in love with a male supporting character, and I'm not sure how much that it going to be touched on. With Tris, the closest we got to a love triangle in the first two books (I have yet to venture into Allegiant) was her friend that killed himself. He had a crush on Tris and tried to hit on her, but all that got cut out.

 

I wouldn't really consider those love triangles, per se, since the object of affection wasn't actually torn between two prospects. It's just the one person liked the second person, but they weren't really interested/aware and happened to be interested in/involved with the third person.

[GaT]

We lucked out with the fact that these books simply didn't have a love triangle in the story.

 

Everyone was freaking out a while back that the new character Edgar, played by Jonny Weston, was added to the story to create a triangle where there wasn't one in the books (which everyone appreciated). But it's been assured that that's not what he's for.

If anything, it's a triangle between him, Four and his mother. His role in the movie, supposedly, is that he's Evelyn's "right hand man" in Factionless and he feels threatened now that her long-lost son is back in the picture.

In the books, there isn't a triangle in Twilight, Bella always wants Edward, Jacob keeps trying, but there's never any question that she won't end up with Edward. In The Hunger Games, I don't think there was a big kiss with Gale & the whole romance angle that was suddenly in Catching Fire (or was it Mockingjay?). Summit/Lionsgate keep manufacturing triangles or pushing the romance aspect of a story to the front, even if it doesn't belong.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, which is why I'm kind of surprised they haven't done that here, as per Veronica Roth. I can't blame the people that thought Jonny Weston was being brought in for that.

[manbearpig]

THR have a fairly positive review of Insurgent. The reviewer liked it more than the first movie, but points out a bunch of problems, too. I obviously haven't seen the movie myself but based on the last movie and the books the review seems fair enough to me. I'm actually excited as I thought Insurgent was a real page turner.

Edited March 12, 2015 by manbearpig

[Chicken Wing]

Only a handful of reviews have been released so far, but most of them are mixed-to-negative.

[methodwriter85]

Apparently, the budget on this was 110 million. Damn, I'm betting that's why they didn't advertise that much- most of the money went to the production budget. At least they didn't go all the way up to the Catching Fire Budget, which was 130.

 

The producers have to be praying the overseas audience comes and rescues it. There's a good chance this won't beat the original opening and that'll be pretty embarrassing.

 

They spent probably somewhere around 160 million to 170 million total on this- and it doesn't really look like there's going to be substantially more box office than the first.

Edited March 20, 2015 by methodwriter85

[absnow54]

Lionsgate is just plugging their ears and chanting, "Lalala, we made The Hunger Games and Twilight, we can't fail when it comes to YA female heroine driven franchises. The numbers be damned!" as they shell out more cash to prop this series. The first movie wasn't a dud, but the audience didn't grow in the same way THG and Twilight did.

 

I do feel bad for poor Theo James, between this film and the last, Shailene's, Ansel's, and Miles's careers really took off, and that's evident through the promos, which seem to focus more on them, while Four, the second lead, is sort of chilling in the background. 

Edited March 20, 2015 by absnow54

[GaT]

Lionsgate is just plugging their ears and chanting, "Lalala, we made The Hunger Games and Twilight, we can't fail when it comes to YA female heroine driven franchises. The numbers be damned!" as they shell out more cash to prop this series. The first movie wasn't a dud, but the audience didn't grow in the same way THG and Twilight did.

 

 

 

That's because right before the movie came out, the final book in the series came out & ruined it for almost everyone. I was looking forward to Divergent & planned to see it opening day, but Allegiant completely changed my mind so I waited until it hit cable to watch it. I've talked to a lot of people who felt the same way.

 

 

I do feel bad for poor Theo James, between this film and the last, Shailene's, Ansel's, and Miles's careers really took off, and that's evident through the promos, which seem to focus more on them, while Four, the second lead, is sort of chilling in the background. 

Once again, blame it on Allegiant. 

[methodwriter85]

I don't think it's just Allegiant, though. The truth is that Four's characterization pretty much sucks such that he doesn't really exist outside of his relationship with Tris, and at the same time, Theo James is just too old to take off as an idol in a YA series.

 

Which explains why this isn't really taking off with the people who crave Twilight romances (aside from the whole unfortunate way this ends). At the same time, the movie falls to go outside of Tris's point-of-view and give us better developed secondary characters like the Hunger Games did- I really think the fact that the Hunger Games got outside of Katniss's view did a lot to broaden the appeal. It's like they took certain things out of the playbook here, but not the right ones- they got the respected actors, but they didn't give them real characters or a real plot.

 

It does seem like they're trying to emphasize more of the action and less of the romance here.

[methodwriter85]

  So, I'm pretty sure there's going to be some kind of shake-up at Lionsgate.

 

Insurgent Trailing Behind Divergent by 20%

 

Man, they better PRAY that overseas box office is going to be amazing. I don't think they're going to make back their budget and promotion with domestic.

 

I really do love like almost this entire cast so I don't want this to flat out fail, but I really do want Lionsgate to wake up and decide to wrap this up in one like it should have been.

Edited March 21, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Chicken Wing]

The new estimates have upped that earlier projection and have Insurgent now making $21 million on Friday ahead of a likely $49.6 million for the weekend. Could be slightly more or less, depending on how frontloaded this is compared to Divergent. (Sequels tend to be more frontloaded, but at the same time it feels like there is just not very much interest across the board.) Either way, it's almost a given now that this will fall short of Divergent's opening weekend. I expect Lionsgate's press releases from here on out to emphasize the foreign box office, which is already ahead of last year (doubled, in some countries). At this point, the overseas market is the only reason this thing isn't going to tank. The budget this time was about $110M and the domestic total will probably top out at $130-140M. But the foreign box office could very well go to $200M, over Divergent's $137M, for a worldwide total of $340M - just barely profitable again.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[Featherhat]

I just don't understand the need for Allegiant to be two movies, oh I know its motivated by greed but seriously? Harry Potter made sense, the book is fairly large and a lot of stuff happens which takes fewer pages to write than a movie likes to show. Twilight could have been one but pure profit drove it into two and apparently there were some "better than the book" additions same with Mockingjay, although I was bored throughout a lot of that movie they ended up with a reasonable movie. This? It does indeed make Mockingjay profound and gripping in comparison, even leaving aside the unpopular ending. There's barely enough worldbuilding in Divergent for one movie per book let alone two, and the first movie and reviews for Insurgent haven't given me any confidence that they can make two reasonable movies out of that mess.

 

I agree with the people upthread who said one of the best things about The Hunger Games movies is that we see a large Panem than we see in Katniss's head in the books, especially the Gamemakers bits. With Divergent they kept with Tris the whole way through and managed to make the system and in particular the Dauntless way of recruitment make even less sense than it did in the books.

[benteen]

It was a stupid, greedy and arrogant decision by Lionsgate to make the decision to split up Allegiant based on the box office receipts for Divergent, which weren't bad mind you.  But not enough to justify splitting up the (shitty) final book into two.  I get assuming that like other franchises that the receipts would grow enough to justify taking the risk.  But yeah, that decision is looking like a disaster with a second film producing less than the first one (and receiving mostly bad reviews) and now they are stuck with two films based on one shitty and unpopular novel.  If they were smart, they would kill any plans of splitting Allegiant in two but I'm betting Lionsgate's own arrogance won't let them and that they'll gladly piss a ton of money away on two films.

 

About Four, yeah...in Allegiant, I sometimes found it difficult to remember whether a chapter was taking place from his POV or Tris's.  That's how poor the characterization was.  In Allegiant, Four seemed to be a guy making stupid decisions and still being afraid of Daddy.

[methodwriter85]

 

If they were smart, they would kill any plans of splitting Allegiant in two but I'm betting Lionsgate's own arrogance won't let them and that they'll gladly piss a ton of money away on two films.

 

Sadly, you're probably right. Which is stupid, but there you go. Lionsgate would rather throw money at a barely-profitable franchise than admit they wrong.

 

Supposedly the Allegiant movies are going to be made separately instead of as one long shoot, which adds to the stupidity.

Edited March 22, 2015 by methodwriter85

[GaT]

About Four, yeah...in Allegiant, I sometimes found it difficult to remember whether a chapter was taking place from his POV or Tris's.  That's how poor the characterization was.  In Allegiant, Four seemed to be a guy making stupid decisions and still being afraid of Daddy.

There was no Four in Allegiant, there was only Tobias, a boy who only wanted his mommy.

[methodwriter85]

Which, again, I don't see how you're possibly going to pull that off with Four being 32 years old, and Naomi Watts being a youthful 47-year old. I don't look at them and assume mother and son. I don't get why they didn't cast somebody more in the mid/late 50-something range to offset Theo's real age. Naomi is barely old enough to be Theo's mother, and with her youthfulness she looks like she might have babysit Four when she was 12.

 

They have made so many mis-steps and mistakes that it's kind of amazing this hasn't bombed in a spectacular fashion, and that's probably largely because they did get a very talented cast.

[Dejana]

Weekend box office report:
 

Lionsgate's YA sequel Insurgent debuted to $101 million globally, although it barely matched the $54.6 million launch of Divergent on the same weekend a year ago in North America.

 

Insurgent grossed $54 million domestically — easily enough to come in No. 1 —  and $47 million internationally, where it topped the chart in 66 of 76 markets. The sequel saw big gains over Divergent in many countries, including a 106 percent uptick in Brazil, followed by 71 percent in France and 54 percent in the U.K.

 

Lionsgate sells the international rights to local distributors so they don't necessarily reap the benefits of the global box office. It does help cover the cost of the budget and negotiate higher fees for the next installment, though.

[Chicken Wing]

I predict that $54 million estimate will drop when the actuals come in tomorrow. Lionsgate is seriously overestimating the Sunday numbers.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, I won't be surprised if it's a BIG drop.

 

From Variety's article on the box office:

 

 

“Everybody is smiling at Lionsgate this morning,” said Richie Fay, the studio’s distribution chief

 

Bull. Shit.

[Emily Thrace]

I think Lionsgate has just accepted  Divergent is the red headed step child of their current stable and didn't expect much in terms of return. They're moving out od the young adult niche so as long as the divergent series doesn't flop their happy.
 

I don't think it's just Allegiant, though. The truth is that Four's characterization pretty much sucks such that he doesn't really exist outside of his relationship with Tris, and at the same time, Theo James is just too old to take off as an idol in a YA series.

 

I don't know about that Theo James is pretty much the only reason ONTD is going ot see the movie from what I see. I really don't think his age hurts him much if anything it broadens his appeal. I definitely noticed he seems to be pulled back a bit from promo and that the studio is pushing Miles and Ansel more.I think its mainly because of how big they've gotten. Its probably partly that Miles and and Ansel are bit more practiced(Theo's older but he's only actually been acting for a few years and he came up through the English system and he seems greener when it come to the Hollywood PR machine) and probably seek out the publicity more(I suspect Miles Teller and Ansel Elgort have dedicated PR people and Theo James does not). I do think the studio  might be a bit worried about what Theo might say though.  I think he's too professional to really be critical at this point but he is definitely unpolished enough to put his foot in his mouth. Especially as the promo material shows Marcus having a bigger role, and I suspect there is some good work there that got cut in favor of more fight scenes.

 

That's actually what really disppointed me about this movie, it was really dumbed down. Which is bad because the book wasn't brilliant to begin with. I wish they had included at least some of the Dauntless politics and the Marcus backstory. I can see not including all of it but the action started to feel redundent after a while. Its hard to care about the stakes when everyone is just running around with guns. Not to mention radomly shooting Eric in front of everyone makes Four look like a pyschopath. Theo James did really well with the material he was handed, the look on his face when Peter brings in Tris's body was heartbreaking (Even though I read the books and knew what was coming). 

 

I did like that they expanded Peter's character. Miles Teller is one of the best parts of the series and TPTB realize that. I really liked his dynamic with Four too. That's one relationship I wish had gotten more focus in the books but never got it.  I liked how Peter seems to want Fours approval it makes him human. I always felt like Peter probably came from similar situation to the one Tobias was in and feel like that was a missed opportunity in the book.  In the hands of a lesser actor the character could be a mess but Miles pulls it off nicely. Although given what happens in Allegiant the chaacter could still end up a mess.

 

Ansel Elgort was disappointing though its been a while since I've seen an actor as over-hypped and undertalented as he is.

 

Shailene Woodley was there, she wasn't bad but shes no Jlaw either. Maybe if the material had been better she could have done more.  I wish we had gotten more of Christina(Although I'm wondering if there were some scheduling issues in Christina's case) and Tori. Especially considering how great the Tori/ Four freindship is in the Four novel.  It would have been an easy way to get a different side of Four to simply show him with someone like Tori who mentored him. Especially since they seemed to have combined Zeke and Uriah for the movies.