The Divergent Series

[GaT]

So, I was looking through the Comcast guide to see what movies were new this week. I noticed that Insurgent was listed & realized I had no idea if I had seen it or not. I had to come here & scroll through the comments until I saw the one where I said I had watched it. It must have been really bad for my brain to completely wipe it from my memory. At least I won't be watching it again.

[methodwriter85]

See, I actually LIKED Insurgent, for the purpose of drooling over Bill Skarsgard.

[Chicken Wing]

Shailene's not interested.

[BatmanBeatles]

I'm confused. Is she not interested in the last movie or the possible TV spin off?

[Artsda]

TV spinoff, that's not what she sign on for.

[Hanahope]

I got the impression she's not thrilled about the last "movie" being a TV-movie either, but she may already be somewhat contracted to that part.

That said, um, not sure how she'd be part of the TV series anyway, given the, you know, ending of the book.  Course, maybe the movie would change things.

[healthnut]

The TV movie idea is hilarious. I wouldn't be cool with that either. Why not Netflix or YouTube like they did with The Interview. Or just scrap it altogether. 

[Hanahope]

So I finally watched Allegiant this weekend from HBO.  Now, I fully admit that when I finally read the book, I mostly skimmed it to get the gist of the story, because I had already heard the ending sucked.  So I did not pay much attention to details.

That said, was there a change to the main story from the book?  In the movie, they seemed to have many "pure" (i.e. undamaged) people at the airport, that were allowed access to all areas.  It made me wonder, well if undamaged people are emerging outside the experiments, simply by living in a 'safe' place, why do they even need to have the "experiment" in Chicago (and other places)?  Lets see, you had generations in Chicago and finally got 1 undamaged, v. nearly the same thing at the airport with many undamaged?  For some reason, I got the impression in the book that even those in the airport area were still all damaged too, but maybe I missed that detail.  Also, wasn't Tris' mother divergent, and she grew up in the fringes?  

[absnow54]

It's been a few years since I've read the book, so I'm not sharp on all of the details, but I think the film did a decent job of trying to salvage most of the story. The genetically pure/genetically damaged not so much though. I think in the book only the genetically pure were a part of the O'Hare Airport Study, while the genetically damaged lived in the fringe. I think they harvested people from the fringe to send into the experiment and that's how Tris's mother was introduced there (in the book her paternal Grandmother -- I think -- is a genetically pure who volunteers to go inside the experiment, but they merged her character with Tris's mother in the movie, and it actually works better that way, I think.)

Where the book really shot itself in the foot was making lots of people divergent and then arming a faction with weapons to kill all of them, when the entire point of the experiment was to breed divergent (genetically pure) people. By making Tris the only truly divergent person to come from the experiment, you can hand wave all the hurdles she went through battling Jeannine as "extreme vetting."

I think the mind wiping serum plot worked better in the movie too (it was a MESS in the book) although I'm curious what exactly the last movie would have been since they covered approximately 95% of the book in this one.

I thought the movie was pretty terrible, but bless Ansel Elgort for breathing some life and humor into it. I know Caleb is supposed to suck, but I liked watching him trip over himself and get excited about science while everyone else was pretending they were the star of their own action movies.

[proserpina65]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

(in the book her paternal Grandmother -- I think -- is a genetically pure who volunteers to go inside the experiment, but they merged her character with Tris's mother in the movie, and it actually works better that way, I think.)

It was Tris' mother in the book.  David was the one from outside the experiment who was keeping in touch with her, and was in love with her.

[GaT]

Shailene Woodley is Officially Passing on the Divergent TV Movie

So they screwed this series up so much, they're going to have to recast the final movie.

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, they really just need to let this go. My god, I can't believe how much they bungled this.

[Artsda]

On 2/9/2017 at 3:14 AM, GaT said:

Shailene Woodley is Officially Passing on the Divergent TV Movie

So they screwed this series up so much, they're going to have to recast the final movie.

It should be left as is. 

The writer butchered the last books and Lionsgate should have seen that and leave it as 1 movie.

[GaT]

20 minutes ago, Artsda said:

It should be left as is. 

The writer butchered the last books and Lionsgate should have seen that and leave it as 1 movie.

What astounds me is that not only did they go ahead with the rest of the movies at that point, they split the last one into two, & kept to that decision even after the box office for each subsequent movie got worse & worse until they couldn't even put the last one in theaters. What kind of thinking is that?

[methodwriter85]

Really stubborn, fool-hardy thinking. The gross for the second movie dropped by 20 million after increasing the budget from 85 million to 110 million, and they still kept the budget for the third movie the same!

I really hope people got fired over this. Just incredibly dumb all around. They took the Hungers Games cue of splitting the last book, but they didn't take any of the cues that the Hunger Games did about making the characters (ALL of the characters) memorable, and how to diverge (heh) from the book to make things stream better. Even characters that should have been developed, like Christina and Will, were pretty much just pushed to the side to make way for the Tris and Four show. And don't get me started on the shitty music score.

What a waste of such a good cast. Tris's friend kills himself because he's ashamed that he tried to kill her to save himself, yet the whole felt like nothing. THAT is a problem. Same goes for when Will gets killed. You barely know anything about the guy, so we should we care?

There was just no emotional resonance at all during the series, and it makes sense people were apathetic about the whole thing.

Edited February 13, 2017 by methodwriter85

[benteen]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 3:14 AM, GaT said:

Shailene Woodley is Officially Passing on the Divergent TV Movie

So they screwed this series up so much, they're going to have to recast the final movie.

But the important question is are the studioheads still smiling?

It's truly amazing how badly Lionsgate screwed this up.  Granted, it didn't help that Roth gave them literal garbage to work with for Allegiant.  But to look at that garbage, limited story and the average box office receipts and say, hey, let's break it up into two movies is one of the dumbest moves in recent memory.  It's inexcusable.  People should be canned over this but these studio types tend to protect one another.

Edited February 13, 2017 by benteen

[CeeBeeGee]

On 1/12/2015 at 10:36 PM, Dejana said:

Darn that JK Rowling for not writing in a character I'd have been the right age to play, but I suppose this Divergent will still help pay for the summer house...

Theo James had a short-but-memorable arc on the first season of Downton Abbey that definitely included shirtlessness.

Random response but I believe Kate Winslet was offered the role of Helena Ravenclaw but her agent didn't tell her and turned it down for her. (I have NO idea why s/he would do that, but this is what I heard.)

[DrSpaceman73]

I watched the 3 movies and found it all very convoluted and confusing. 

I got to the end and thought, "What was the point of all this again?"  I just can't wrap my brain around how creating a totally caste based society with distinct groups would help create a divergent, which was the whole point of what they were trying to do.  And even assuming it made sense somehow, it took, what 200 years to create a SINGLE 100% divergent, and this was proof somehow the system "worked"?  Just by chance I would think in any system you'd eventually create one. 

The first movie was interesting.  The third part though, which was supposed to explain all this, just didn't make much sense to me.  It made me more confused than I was after the second movie. 

And at the end I don't really know if the divergents really won or lost?  Were they staying or leaving Chicago?  I felt like there should be more, which I guess is because they meant to do two final movies. 

[Silver Raven]

Naomi Watts and Shailene Woodley were both nominated for Razzie Awards for Worst Actress for their performances in Allegiant, but they lost, er, won, er, didn't get the award.

[benteen]

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:24 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

Random response but I believe Kate Winslet was offered the role of Helena Ravenclaw but her agent didn't tell her and turned it down for her. (I have NO idea why s/he would do that, but this is what I heard.)

If I was an actor and I have an agent that did that, that agent wouldn't have a job.

[topanga]

On 2/24/2017 at 10:00 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

I watched the 3 movies and found it all very convoluted and confusing. 

I got to the end and thought, "What was the point of all this again?"  I just can't wrap my brain around how creating a totally caste based society with distinct groups would help create a divergent, which was the whole point of what they were trying to do.  And even assuming it made sense somehow, it took, what 200 years to create a SINGLE 100% divergent, and this was proof somehow the system "worked"?  Just by chance I would think in any system you'd eventually create one. 

The first movie was interesting.  The third part though, which was supposed to explain all this, just didn't make much sense to me.  It made me more confused than I was after the second movie. 

And at the end I don't really know if the divergents really won or lost?  Were they staying or leaving Chicago?  I felt like there should be more, which I guess is because they meant to do two final movies. 

Unfortunately, the novels didn't do much to clear this up. Though I did enjoy the first book--Divergent--very much. Just not the reveals that came after. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by topanga

[paulvdb]

I know I'm a bit late, but I just watched the three movies and just had to comment on the genetics that didn't make sense to me. So humans had been experimenting with genetics to improve specific personality traits. The Bureau of Genetic Welfare creates an experiment where people are divided in the five factions based on those genetically enhanced personality traits. People marry and procreate in their own factions with people who share the same genetics. And the point of this experiment is to create Divergents who combine the genetic traits of all the factions? If that was the goal of the experiment, wouldn't it make more sense to create a society where people are encouraged to marry and procreate with members of a different faction?

[Chicken Wing]

On 12/18/2017 at 1:26 PM, paulvdb said:

I know I'm a bit late, but I just watched the three movies and just had to comment on the genetics that didn't make sense to me. So humans had been experimenting with genetics to improve specific personality traits. The Bureau of Genetic Welfare creates an experiment where people are divided in the five factions based on those genetically enhanced personality traits. People marry and procreate in their own factions with people who share the same genetics. And the point of this experiment is to create Divergents who combine the genetic traits of all the factions? If that was the goal of the experiment, wouldn't it make more sense to create a society where people are encouraged to marry and procreate with members of a different faction?

Yes. Yes, it would. Oh, the gaping plotholes you create when you scramble to invent a backstory after the fact...

[Silver Raven]

I was just checking Octavia Spencer's imdb page and it says she's in pre-production on Ascendant, which is going to be a tv movie.  Where?

Interestingly, the cast list on imdb for Ascendant doesn't mention Shailene Woodley or Theo James.

[Browncoat]

On 12/18/2017 at 1:26 PM, paulvdb said:

wouldn't it make more sense to create a society where people are encouraged to marry and procreate with members of a different faction?

Wasn't that accomplished when they chose their factions at 16?  They didn't necessarily stay in the faction they grew up in -- at least Tris and her brother didn't, and were less likely to marry someone from their "home" faction.

Mind you, it has been a while since I read the books, and I've tried to forget them and the first movie as much as possible.

[GaT]

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I was just checking Octavia Spencer's imdb page and it says she's in pre-production on Ascendant, which is going to be a tv movie.  Where?

Interestingly, the cast list on imdb for Ascendant doesn't mention Shailene Woodley or Theo James.

The other Divergent movies were so bad & so badly received that they decided to do Ascendent as a made for TV movie because a theatrical release would be a big failure. Shailene & Theo didn't want to do a TV movie, so they both bailed on it. They also talked about making this a series, & I honestly don't know why they would make a series from movies that everyone hated, but Shailene & Theo were also not interested in that. 

[HunterHunted]

17 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Wasn't that accomplished when they chose their factions at 16?  They didn't necessarily stay in the faction they grew up in -- at least Tris and her brother didn't, and were less likely to marry someone from their "home" faction.

Mind you, it has been a while since I read the books, and I've tried to forget them and the first movie as much as possible.

I don't think picking their factions accomplished the genetic variation they were looking for mostly because we shouldn't have seen disappointed parents when their kids chose a faction that wasn't their birth faction. It implied that most kids chose the faction they came from. Additionally, the exile of the factionless undermines the genetic variation plan. In the search to find perfect divergents, it's obvious that the Bureau's plan isn't to increase genetic variation after screwing it up, but to create superhumans who are perfect at everything. It's why most of the society doesn't give two shits about the factionless because they don't favor any of the positive traits of the factions.

[Browncoat]

Man, I really have forgotten most of those details!  And nope, not going to go back to refresh my memory.

[HunterHunted]

I happened to catch part of Insurgent and I find Christina's anger at Tris kind of hilarious. Christina is angry that Tris killed Will, when he was a brainwashed killing machine, and lied about it. Mostly I'm irritated that this Will Christina relationship barely existed in the film and isn't substantial enough to hang the fracturing of the Tris Christina friendship. There's so little Will in Divergent that they should have dropped the Christina's mad at Tris for killing Will plot point. There's also so little Christina in Insurgent that checking in on the status of her friendship is pointless. Finally, in their little cohort of recruits there are three white guys and only one is distinguishable--Miles Teller's dickbag character. Divergent needed to try harder if they wanted me to care about Will.

Edited July 17, 2018 by HunterHunted

[methodwriter85]

That right there is a great example of how much they screwed up these films. They put so little of Will/Christina in the first film in order to focus on Tris/Four that it really didn't matter when Will got killed because there was so little development there. That is where this adaption differs from the first Hunger Games or the Maze Runner series, which actually made you care about the characters they killed off.

As an aside, the guy who got his eye stabbed out in the first one and then got written out of the second movie even though he was supposed to be in that is now known as A Christmas Prince, a cheesy Netflix movie about a reporter who falls in love with the prince of a small country called Aldovia. (No, no, not Genovia. Completely different countries.) Good for him, I guess.

[Hanahope]

THe other failed plot of the books/movie is that Tris' mother, who came from outside the experiment, was determined to be somewhat divergent herself when she went into Chicago to join the group and "save" the experiment.  So it makes sense that her daughter, Tris, would end up being even more divergent because she came from a mother who was partly divergent,  and a father who was also orignally from another faction.  So really, the experiment failed.  The experiment, by itself, never created a truly divergent person.  It took a partly divergent person from outside the experiment to create the truly divergent person.

[GaT]

I'm not sure why this article came out today, but it looks like the TV series is dead too.

How "Divergent" Turned Into A Disaster

[benteen]

It's amazing how they screwed this all up and how preventable it was.  It was never going to be The Hunger Games and if they had realized that, they could have at least avoided the whole fourth movie thing and finished the series.  I wonder if they're still smiling...

[Browncoat]

The movie series was always doomed by that abominable third book.

[methodwriter85]

I will never, ever understand how badly mangled this whole thing was.