S25.E08: Third Man Syndrome

[txhorns79]

Airing March 21, 2024.

Quote

A brutal assault in the street leads Carisi to pursue hate crime charges. Benson must support a homebound witness too scared to speak up.

 

 

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

A brutal assault in the street leads Carisi to pursue hate crime charges. Benson must support a homebound witness too scared to speak up.

From the preview they showed, it looks like Benson will be talking in her whisper voice to give a awe-inspiring speech to the homebound witness to speak up and testify

[dttruman]

It looks like the writers are trying to make Benson look good again, by having the Commissioner put all the responsibility of investigating the crime on Benson and saying it at a press conference. Then they go out to bring in a supposed friend of the victim (the cousin), but do it in a sloppy way by forcing the guy to run away and Sykes chases him down (mock heroics). Benson talks to the witness and is told there is a discrepancy about the number of attackers, and Bruno mentions the "Third Man Syndrome", that only he knows about, and the rest are clueless. And the writers couldn't help but put in a speech for Benson to console the victim at the end.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Bruno! It's a shame that budget fuckery is keeping us from getting Kevin Kane full time. Both the character and the actor make every episode better than those without him.

The COTW. A solid story with a good old school team investigation. Nothing flashy, but nothing too overdone or repetitive.

Carisi. It is nice to see an ADA who is not the bad guy for wanting to be able to prosecute the offenders and to have him as an ally, but independent. Separate yet equally important if you will.

No therapy scene! Are we finally done with Maddie?

The Bad:
Speaking as we were about budget fuckery - it's an all hands on deck situation with "forced OT" but Velasco is MIA? Especially on a case where a Latino presence would be useful? And they can't even bother to give us a "Munch is in court" line of dialogue to explain? Or give the new girls something more substantial to do? It would seem from a creative and budget standpoint we'd be better off with Velasco this week and maybe bring in the replacements for another episode.

Mariska. Boy was there a lot of whispered platitudes and constipated faces this week. All in the service of Benson as savior once again who can turn cure mental illness with just the power of her empathy.

Speaking of BS (Benson Stuff) that ending was vomit inducing and did a lot to squander the good will that built up. If it wasn't bad enough that we had to be sure everyone knew that Benson healed everyone we had to suffer through her blathering about angels and how art is turning your suffering into beauty?
 

Overall this was another meh episode. A lot of solid bits, but also a lot of wasted potential as they were too busy servicing the star's ego to actually tell the interesting story that was there. It served mostly as a reminder that nobody is bothering to even try to reign in Mariska and that Hate Crimes would be much better than what they are putting on the air and deciding to pick a fight over casting and issues based story telling with Dick Wolf is a monumentally stupid idea.

[dttruman]

7 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

BS (Benson Stuff)

Well said on the BS reference!

[Xeliou66]

A good episode, minus Benson and the opening. I’m sick of openings where everything is spelled out for us, and the Benson worship was once again over the top. Benson was at her worst with her whispering and over dramatic facial expressions, and of course being portrayed as an all knowing beacon of light in her scenes with the victim and the witness.

The case was pretty good with good investigative work and it’s nice having a full squad, even if Velasco was mysteriously absent, and the squad clicked well together in this episode, something which is on and off. Bruno is awesome, he improves every episode he’s in and adds real life to the show, and it’s too bad they are too cheap to bump him up to regular when he’s in just as many episodes as everyone else besides Benson. The episode being heavy on Bruno and Fin helped a lot. Carisi was good as well, although I really wish he would get back into court.

The police commissioner who was in this one was also on the Mothership tonight as the same character - good continuity. 

The case was solid and I liked how it played out. This episode is yet another example of how much Mariska’s ego detracts from the show - because the way St Olivia is portrayed as some all knowing perfect beacon of light is beyond irritating and it weakens the show and makes it cheesy and cliched. Dial back the Benson worship and this would be a very good episode, but St Olivia’s usual crap took it down a few notches. 

 

[Demian]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Bruno! It's a shame that budget fuckery is keeping us from getting Kevin Kane full time. Both the character and the actor make every episode better than those without him.

He really is a terrific addition to the cast.  I'm wondering if he's deliberately holding himself back as a Guest Star to avoid signing a multi-year contract, because that's not what he wants for his career.

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, Demian said:

He really is a terrific addition to the cast.

No argument here. The behind the scenes negotiations is up to them, but from what I read from past comments, Wolf is notorious for penny pinching as per cheapness in production & writing.

[slowpoked]

My gosh, could they be any more heavy-handed with the ending (Chandler voice). “Thank him in your heart…” really?!

I guess I should be thankful that Olivia didn’t set him up to meet the actual real-life hero of his case.

[farmgal4]

14 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The Good:
Bruno! It's a shame that budget fuckery is keeping us from getting Kevin Kane full time. Both the character and the actor make every episode better than those without him.

The COTW. A solid story with a good old school team investigation. Nothing flashy, but nothing too overdone or repetitive.

Carisi. It is nice to see an ADA who is not the bad guy for wanting to be able to prosecute the offenders and to have him as an ally, but independent. Separate yet equally important if you will.

No therapy scene! Are we finally done with Maddie?

The Bad:
Speaking as we were about budget fuckery - it's an all hands on deck situation with "forced OT" but Velasco is MIA? Especially on a case where a Latino presence would be useful? And they can't even bother to give us a "Munch is in court" line of dialogue to explain? Or give the new girls something more substantial to do? It would seem from a creative and budget standpoint we'd be better off with Velasco this week and maybe bring in the replacements for another episode.

Mariska. Boy was there a lot of whispered platitudes and constipated faces this week. All in the service of Benson as savior once again who can turn cure mental illness with just the power of her empathy.

Speaking of BS (Benson Stuff) that ending was vomit inducing and did a lot to squander the good will that built up. If it wasn't bad enough that we had to be sure everyone knew that Benson healed everyone we had to suffer through her blathering about angels and how art is turning your suffering into beauty?
 

Overall this was another meh episode. A lot of solid bits, but also a lot of wasted potential as they were too busy servicing the star's ego to actually tell the interesting story that was there. It served mostly as a reminder that nobody is bothering to even try to reign in Mariska and that Hate Crimes would be much better than what they are putting on the air and deciding to pick a fight over casting and issues based story telling with Dick Wolf is a monumentally stupid idea.

Mariska directed last night’s episode.

[farmgal4]

I haven’t watched this show in a few years because I had started to despise Benson.  I used to never miss an episode and I still watch reruns on the USA channel.  I decided that I would give the show another chance this season because I used to love it.  I thought last night’s episode was good; it held my attention and Olivia wasn’t her normal bitchy self, so I’ll be watching next week too.  BTW, Mariska directed last night’s episode.

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I haven’t watched this show in a few years because I had started to despise Benson.  I used to never miss an episode and I still watch reruns on the USA channel.  I decided that I would give the show another chance this season because I used to love it.  I thought last night’s episode was good; it held my attention and Olivia wasn’t her normal bitchy self, so I’ll be watching next week too.  BTW, Mariska directed last night’s episode.

Mariska is directing the next episode, she didn’t direct last night’s episode, I looked it up. 

[farmgal4]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Mariska is directing the next episode, she didn’t direct last night’s episode, I looked it up. 

I thought it said that she did when the credits rolled.  My bad.

[gesundheit]

Someone needs to tell the L.A. writers room that calling the first day of spring "Sundress Day" in NYC is ridiculous, since it's almost always in the 30s on the first day of spring. (As it was this week!) "Every woman in New York wears a sundress that day," my ass! (Also why did a bar have "Happy Pride" in the window in the winter?)

13 hours ago, Demian said:

He really is a terrific addition to the cast.  I'm wondering if he's deliberately holding himself back as a Guest Star to avoid signing a multi-year contract, because that's not what he wants for his career.

He's always neck-deep in a bunch of big Amy Schumer projects, so I wouldn't be surprised if he likes the flexibility for his directing/producing work.

Why is Olivia such a mean boss? She wasn't as bad as usual this episode, but she did get a few digs in at the cops that were already there on the scene. Her "everyone in this profession besides me is utterly incompetent" attitude is terrible leadership, Brene Brown would not approve! (And neither would Cragen.) I mean, thanks Liv -- without your expert wisdom nobody would've thought after going to Queens to identify all the potential places that may have employed the victim the day prior, they should find out which one it was! Only Benson would be sensitive enough to think of going to the homeless man's turf to ask him what he saw instead of hauling him into the station! Thank goodness they have her uncanny sapience.

[dttruman]

For the comments just mentioned above about Haritay directing the next episode, it makes me wonder if the writing and producing will suddenly have some quality to it?

[Sake614]

‘Sundress Day’ had me cackling because I was FREEZING yesterday in a winter coat! Who the hell wrote that shit? Have they ever been to NY in March? Yeah we had a couple of warmish days, but nobody was in a sundress. Like that’s not even a thing and it was ridiculous.

other than that, I actually liked the episode. I could’ve done without Liv at the end, but I didn’t even mind her connecting with the witness. I appreciated using the whole squad, but didn’t understand why Sykes (that’s the FBI agent, right?) was in a sweatshirt. Why didn’t she get the Muncy speech about proper dress code? 

[pezgirl7]

1 hour ago, Sake614 said:

I could’ve done without Liv at the end, but I didn’t even mind her connecting with the witness. I appreciated using the whole squad, but didn’t understand why Sykes (that’s the FBI agent, right?) was in a sweatshirt. Why didn’t she get the Muncy speech about proper dress code? 

I didn’t mind her talk with him at the end either. Yes, it was a little cheesy but it was better than her just flat out telling him he hallucinated the man and that the pain of the trauma is going to stay with him for the rest of his life. She needs to have a good “bedside manner” in her job, which she does. It’s just too bad the show is so heavy handed about it and makes it seem like every victim she comes in contact with is instantly better for talking with her.

Like someone else said above, I was also afraid Liv was going to take him to meet the agoraphobic girl and there’d be a meet-cute between them. 😅

I had the same thought about the FBI agent’s hoodie! I guess she gets a pass from Liv because she’s not a rookie. 

Best part of this episode was the return of Bruno. Worst part was that the two cousins from Columbia had no accent. I don’t know why that bugged me so much. 

[cfinboston]

How is it that NYC is experiencing a massive shortage of police officers, yet they're able to canvas every shelter and apartment building and bar in the City?

Why did they need to canvas construction sites along the subway? Couldn't they just ask him where he went for the job?

"My cousin and I are like brothers but I'm not sure where he lives or works or what his phone number is."

I love how every cop in a foot chase knows exactly where the suspect will run and can head him off.

Olivia standing in front of Ann's wall like an angel. Just... No. She's agoraphobic and she's going to just buzz them in? No way.

St Olivia cures agoraphobia simply by lighting a few candles in the squad room. Ugh.

Was it just me or did they not show the men holding up numbers in the first two line ups, only in the third?

"Oh you're playing bad cop?" "He's not playing." Hee! I can't believe we finally got a good Fin line. 

[dttruman]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:44 PM, pezgirl7 said:

I didn’t mind her talk with him at the end either. Yes, it was a little cheesy but it was better than her just flat out telling him he hallucinated the man and that the pain of the trauma is going to stay with him for the rest of his life. She needs to have a good “bedside manner” in her job, which she does. It’s just too bad the show is so heavy handed about it and makes it seem like every victim she comes in contact with is instantly better for talking with her.

Total agree with this and the others who have noticed Benson and her special talks with the special victims. They should have added another character, a victim's advocate or something, he (or she) could have taken over for the FBI profilers position. But NOOOO, they had to reduce the number of SVU members, to cut the budget.

[pezgirl7]

19 hours ago, dttruman said:

They should have added another character, a victim's advocate or something, he (or she) could have taken over for the FBI profilers position.

That pretty much sums up Dr. Huang’s character. He was a profiler but also a psychologist for the perps and the victims. It’s too bad they couldn’t bring him back, or have a similar character. I’d rather have that than another detective. 

Edited March 25 by pezgirl7
Fixed the spelling of psychologist

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

That pretty much sums up Dr. Huang’s character

Thank you for mentioning his name, I can picture him but I can't remember, his name and I was way too tired to look it up.

[Xeliou66]

11 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

That pretty much sums up Dr. Huang’s character. He was a profiler but also a physiologist for the perps and the victims. It’s too bad they couldn’t bring him back, or have a similar character. I’d rather have that than another detective. 

Exactly what I was about to say - I really miss Dr Huang and the psych insights he provided. It’s a shame he’s gone and they haven’t bothered to replace him in any way. 

[wknt3]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:22 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Exactly what I was about to say - I really miss Dr Huang and the psych insights he provided. It’s a shame he’s gone and they haven’t bothered to replace him in any way. 

But now they have - twice! The squad has an FBI agent plus they have Rollins as a brilliant criminal profiler. That's just as good. Right? Right? Why are you all giving me that look?

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

But now they have - twice! The squad has an FBI agent plus they have Rollins as a brilliant criminal profiler. That's just as good. Right? Right? Why are you all giving me that look?

I think it could work if they can come up with some kind of scenario where she gets rid of all her mental baggages that she had accumulated since coming up from the South

[Wizardpatch]

Lennie Briscoe would have made a crack about an agorophobic living in New York. 

[Xeliou66]

57 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

Lennie Briscoe would have made a crack about an agorophobic living in New York. 

Munch always had some hilarious wisecracks as well - that’s another thing I miss, some of the humor, Munch was awesome at providing that, and sometimes Cragen and even Stabler added some as well, Barba too for that matter added some - now only Fin and maybe occasionally Bruno add it, but I miss some of the one liners and moments of humor now, that’s another thing that’s vanished since SVU became the St Olivia hour - the show takes itself way too seriously to the point that the scenes of Olivia saving the day every time have become sort of comical to many because of how it’s portrayed. I do miss the humor of classic SVU - Munch here and Lennie on the Mothership had hilarious one liners.

[Zaffy]

The thing that really annoys me with SVU is that while we really need some decent (police) heroes that are not the usual cynical antiheroes of the "peak tv" era, we end up getting  the Saint Olivia caricature. Mariska's narcissism has destroyed a decent tv hero. 
No, I did not like the episode, it was boring, "bad cop" Bruno sucks (reminds me of hysterical Stabler) and well the show has reached the point where nothing really matters except what Olivia will do and say. 
Olivia can cure an agoraphobic, Olivia can console a victim...., Olivia can save kidnapped girls, Olivia can save NYPD and make  NY sleep better, Olivia this, Olivia that.. sigh.. and it is contagious, even Fin now can help a homeless person sleep well for a night.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, Zaffy said:

well the show has reached the point where nothing really matters except what Olivia will do and say. 
Olivia can cure an agoraphobic, Olivia can console a victim...., Olivia can save kidnapped girls, Olivia can save NYPD and make  NY sleep better, Olivia this, Olivia that.. sigh.. and it is contagious, even Fin now can help a homeless person sleep well for a night.

I have so many question, but I think we may never get answers to some of them. Has Wolf given Hargitay the keys to the SVU show? If not, how much clout does she have or what is she guaranteed? Does she have to bring in each show under budget to keep her character as the main one each week? Can the Benson character take two weeks off to see how it effects the ratings or does it need to be a whole month?

[MarylandGirl]

As someone who had some agoraphobia issues early in the pandemic--no, it's not that simple. It was only a few months, and I had trouble just opening my door and standing on my porch. It took steps, from my therapist (virtual at the time) to get me to open the door one day. Then do that a few times. Then step onto the porch. Then go to my car and sit in it, without going anywhere.

If this woman had not left her apartment for 5 years, I really don't think Olivia just holding her hand would have been enough to get her all the way to the police station. The hallway or maybe the front door of the building? Yes. But this was a case where they desperately needed someone like Huang.

I was actually expecting her to hold the witness's hand during the lineups, then accuse her of giving a signal. But I guess they didn't allow hand-holding. I also thought that Olivia would have done up the squadroom like her apartment, with the flowers and birds on the wall. Glad they just left it at the candles (though that seemed unrealistic, too).

Agreeing with all those who were glad to see Bruno--he really does make the episodes better.

And it was an interesting case and investigation. Kinda wish they'd spent more time actually looking for the "Third Man." It was an interesting phenomenon to read about. When I saw that was the title, I thought it would be referring to one of the perps, like the guy who didn't participate in the attack.

It did seem wrapped up a bit too quickly at the end, with not seeing them making the deals--it almost could have worked for a two-parter.

[Zaffy]

16 hours ago, dttruman said:

Has Wolf given Hargitay the keys to the SVU show? If not, how much clout does she have or what is she guaranteed? Does she have to bring in each show under budget to keep her character as the main one each week?

After season 6 or so, the show has suffered some really bad seasons. It has been a hit and miss.
When Stabler was still in, we had a show that ended up revolving around the 2 stars but not in a good way, all stories were suffering just to "accommodate" them.
I didn't really have a problem with "Saint Olivia", but now she has become insufferable. The writing is really bad and the acting as well. And I do not get it, I know Mariska can act well.
Maybe they have market research we do not know about and follow what "the audience wants",  dunno, it is just bad.

Edited March 30 by Zaffy

[dttruman]

17 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

As someone who had some agoraphobia issues early in the pandemic--no, it's not that simple. It was only a few months, and I had trouble just opening my door and standing on my porch. It took steps, from my therapist (virtual at the time) to get me to open the door one day. Then do that a few times. Then step onto the porch. Then go to my car and sit in it, without going anywhere.

Glad you are doing OK now!

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Zaffy said:

When Stabler was still in, we had a show that ended up revolving around the 2 stars but not in a good way, all stories were suffering just to "accommodate" them.

I seem to remember that also, but there was that one episode that was like inserted between them where Fin and Munch worked a case that took them up to Canada and they had to deal with the "No capital punishment" there. Anyway it was nice having a Benson & Stabler episode one week and then a Munch & Fin episode the next. Too bad they  don't do something like that now.

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I seem to remember that also, but there was that one episode that was like inserted between them where Fin and Munch worked a case that took them up to Canada and they had to deal with the "No capital punishment" there. Anyway it was nice having a Benson & Stabler episode one week and then a Munch & Fin episode the next. Too bad they  don't do something like that now.

That was back in the glory days of SVU - the episode you are referring to is Manhunt from season 2 - an all time favorite of mine - Munch/Fin going upstate and then to Canada to track the serial killer was awesome. Starting around season 9, the show became all about Stabler/Benson and the plots became more and more far fetched (the monkey in basketball episode from season 10 was probably the epitome of that). When Stabler left, the show actually got better again for about 2 seasons - the other characters starting getting more screen time, the cases became more compelling, and while not as good as golden age SVU still a pretty good show overall. Then Munch/Cragen left, Benson took over the squad, Noah was introduced, and the show starting descending into the St Olivia circle jerk that it is today. There have still been good moments from these seasons - season 17 in particular had quite a few good episodes, but the St Olivia worship has been built up more and more over the years and has reached its peak this year it seems. The only thing making this season interesting is having more investigators around, and Bruno in particular has been a fantastic addition to the show. The cases have been a mixed bag, which is the usual for modern day SVU, but it’s notable how the Benson worship has reached an all time high. 

[Zaffy]

31 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I seem to remember that also, but there was that one episode that was like inserted between them where Fin and Munch worked a case that took them up to Canada and they had to deal with the "No capital punishment" there. Anyway it was nice having a Benson & Stabler episode one week and then a Munch & Fin episode the next. Too bad they  don't do something like that now.

Yes indeed too bad, but I think at one point the stars of the show became bigger than the show itself. It was the Stabler & Benson and now it is the Benson show. 
Like Organized Crime is basically the Stabler show. I stopped watching it cause it was so stupid. One week Stabler is on national TV for a police scandal and the other he is working undercover. It does not make sense except for giving Meloni the chance as undercover  to act different kind of personas.

Edited March 30 by Zaffy

[faithie]

Somebody already mentioned two recent Colombian immigrants not having accents.  To add insult to that injury, the writers had a guy who just landed in this country refer to his attackers as a "couple of meatheads from Jersey".  

How would he have learned that kind of informal local language so quickly? 

The writing seems to get worse every year.  But my crush on MH keeps me coming back.

 

 

[MarylandGirl]

18 hours ago, dttruman said:

Glad you are doing OK now!

Thanks! Apparently, I just needed Saint Olivia to stop by my house and I'd have been cured even more quickly.

[VickiWolverton]

On 3/31/2024 at 5:48 AM, Xeliou66 said:

That was back in the glory days of SVU - the episode you are referring to is Manhunt from season 2 - an all time favorite of mine - Munch/Fin going upstate and then to Canada to track the serial killer was awesome.

That was such a great episode. Finn and Munch really found the groove of their character's interaction while they were searching for the killer.

Finn- Aunt Mary believes he's innocent.

Munch, Yeah, well, Aunt Mary is a few teabags shy of a full pot!

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, VickiWolverton said:

That was such a great episode. Finn and Munch really found the groove of their character's interaction while they were searching for the killer.

Finn- Aunt Mary believes he's innocent.

Munch, Yeah, well, Aunt Mary is a few teabags shy of a full pot!

Always like their banter. Munch with his conspiracy theories and Fin with his cynical responses, especially with his facial expressions

[tennisgurl]

This was overall a pretty good episode, most episodes without Maddie or some pretty young women in a he said/she said case is a win for me, but it seems like it was close to being great. It would be so nice if we could just have an episode that's about solving crimes without any interruptions to remind us that Olivia is the best and most amazing detective/genius that ever lived. Even in this episode, where she wasn't even taking things personally, we have to make sure that we all know that she's in charge, that she's the only person who can cure agoraphobia and gives victims closure, she's the only one! 

Its nice that we have a much more full squad these days, its alwasy good to see Bruno, but its pretty hilarious watching them talking about canvasing basically all of New York when they seem to only have about five cops in the whole city who can do more than drop some minor exposition. 

I thought that getting over years of agoraphobia would be hard and probably require a mental health professional with years of experience, but it turns out to be super easy, barley an inconvenience, as long as you have candles and the hand of St. Olivia to hold! This girl should have just gone to a Yankee Candle years ago and she would have been fine! 

I wish that they had gone more into the whole third man syndrome thing, that's really interesting and I wanted it to be more important than it ended up being.

Edited April 4 by tennisgurl