Supernatural Smackdown: The Winchester Dynamic Duo vs Other Shows

[Aeryn13]

As the last regular episode of Arrow has aired and there is only the x-over, a backdoor Pilot and the Series Finale coming up, I have to say the writers largely did what SPN is trying and failing at: creating a final Season that feels coherent with and respects what came before, brings nostalgic character returns in clever and delightful way and manages to wring great emotional moments and pay-off out of it and clearly builds to a lasting legacy for both show and character. 

I`m not saying it`s perfect but a lot of it is really effective and it is lightyears beyond what SPN has currently become. And Arrow suffered from some bad bad writing in the past, too. Just seems for the final lap the writers pulled themselves together and gave it every effort. 

Maybe the Series Finale will not be all I would want it to be but right now I can`t imagine it won`t at least be satisfying on some level.

Meanwhile the SPN writers write shoddy boring stories and bring in really out-of-the-blue "nostalgic" cameos and lampshade it onscreen with "haha, that`s what bad writing looks like because God is a bad writer and we`re so cleverly meta, also the show until now had no point because, again, God wrote it and he is bad".  

[Castiels Cat]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:15 PM, ZennyKenny said:

Ugh, so true! I didn't side with either brother because I was so mad at the writers for that crappy contrived conflict. There was so much wrongly written for both brothers in that storyline, and it was so infuriating to watch, that I actually stopped watching the show for a couple of years after that. I don't think the writers understand the power they have to push viewers away when they pull crap like this.

I just wanted more Dean and Benny.

On 1/25/2018 at 8:18 AM, Wayward Son said:

I just watched last nights X File episode! Hiliarious and would have fit in as an Edlund SN episode back in the day xD

The second season of XFiles reboot has some stellar episodes.

[Castiels Cat]

On 12/1/2018 at 1:16 PM, Aeryn13 said:

OMG, their hard-on for this guy and his 3D printer is painful. Especially, as you said, in comparism to all the previous villains. 

But then the Arrow writers were severely tone-deaf last Season with the "civil war" arc where they ended up surprised that people didn`t side equally between OTA and the noobs.  Despite writing them as horrible, self-involved, hypocritical, whiny jackasses.

I think SPN has some of those same pitfalls where the writers are surprised people might side with a character. I`ll never believe that anyone was supposed to take Dean`s side during Season 8.A. Because someone being hurt and confused to find out their next to kin didn`t even look for them for five minutes after being gone is so out of line. And the other person acting annoyed at that hurt would be greatly relatable. They were going for the opposite reaction and ended up saying "oh my" when the Season started airing and reactions poured in.

The villain-hard-on for Lucifer, I don`t even think is the whole writers room on SPN (compared to Arrow probably where everyone seems enamored with mumble mouth Diaz) but specifically Bucklemming. They should just be told to put up and shut up. Same as Berens and his Wayward Sues. Thompson was worshipping the Charlie character to unholy degrees and he was eventually told to snap out of it. Sure, he left but he didn`t get his way. If these writers have such hard-ons for specific characters, they can invite the actors to dinner in their free time or something. 

Taking to BvJ

Edited December 8, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[Aeryn13]

It is uncanny. Three long(er)-running CW shows ended/will end this year. And while Arrow already concluded with at least a pretty okay Finale (after a really good, sweet final Season), both Supernatural and the 100 seem to be in a neck-to-neck race trying to determine which one can screw up its final Season and entire show more. Do Badd and Rothenberg have a bet going on? 

At this point it is hard to say which one comes out the winner. Other than: not me because in both cases the showrunner seems to have a major grudge against my favourite character/the actor playing them. 

If the competition is "who can screw up major character arcs as much and as quickly as the final Season of GOT", then the 100 is winning right now. But SPN has time to catch up. 

Jeez, what are the chances to have two complete dumpster fires on the same network like that?

Other shows that ended this year like Criminal Minds (bland but okay Finale) and Agents of Shield (great final Season bit of an underwhelming if very sweet Finale) managed to walk over the finish line with dignity.     

 

[gonzosgirrl]

It's no secret how I feel about what the show has become, but it is endlessly fascinating to talk about, for good or bad. The other show I follow on this forum is This Is Us,  ostensibly the highest rated drama on network television. It premieres S5 next week. Next week, and there is zero activity in the forum. No rehashing episodes, no anticipation of new episodes/storylines,  no character discussion,  no actor talk. Not even a good, old-fashioned my-fav-is-better-than-yours fight. 

Wherever else it fails, the show keeps its fans talking.

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's no secret how I feel about what the show has become, but it is endlessly fascinating to talk about, for good or bad. The other show I follow on this forum is This Is Us,  ostensibly the highest rated drama on network television. It premieres S5 next week. Next week, and there is zero activity in the forum. No rehashing episodes, no anticipation of new episodes/storylines,  no character discussion,  no actor talk. Not even a good, old-fashioned my-fav-is-better-than-yours fight. 

Wherever else it fails, the show keeps its fans talking.

IMO it`s not too unusual. Genre-shows are often much lower-rated than drama shows (in terms of audience numbers) but fandom-wise, they are the juggernauts with much more involved online fandoms. It`s also why those type of drama shows usually don`t have conventions. 

Supernatural, even at the best of times, always had this slightly charming but goofy writing (with lots of flaws) that just invited fanfic and fandom. 

Also, the worse the writing of a show gets, fandom activity often ramps up, even if 85 % of it only is rants. Haha.

I watch a lot of CW shows and occasionally post in those forums and they have and do create way more fandom chatter than the highest-rated dramas ever did. Arrow was busy till the ended and still gets traction. Now usually the CW shows have two big talking points the longer they go on: "how the writers screwed it up" and "shipping".  

In terms of the CW, three of their longest-running shows ended (or soon to be with SPN) this year and I think I can already rank them easily:

1.Arrow - they managed to make a sweet and fun nostalgic final Season and an ending that, while bittersweet, did go out of its way to pay tribute to the legacy of the character

2.SPN - meh final Season full of the usual retcons and the "Chuck is writer" meta nonsense of an unwarranted ego-trip by the writers with a probably stupid Finale 

3.The 100 - a final Season so bad that Game of Thrones is laughing and that trashed its main characters and everything that made it good in the good Seasons into smithereens

Good luck to Supergirl ending next Season.  🙂

    

[gonzosgirrl]

I know it's not unusual,  I just think it's interesting. 

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Supernatural, even at the best of times, always had this slightly charming but goofy writing (with lots of flaws) that just invited fanfic and fandom. 

Also, the worse the writing of a show gets, fandom activity often ramps up, even if 85 % of it only is rants. Haha.

I watch a lot of CW shows and occasionally post in those forums and they have and do create way more fandom chatter than the highest-rated dramas ever did. Arrow was busy till the ended and still gets traction. Now usually the CW shows have two big talking points the longer they go on: "how the writers screwed it up" and "shipping".  

Ha! I came to the show late, via a fanfic discussion, and realization during that discussion how many times I had seen it gif'd on Imgur and other platforms. The gifs were always funny, even without context. Little did I know it was literally the fandom that has a gif for everything. 

[Myrelle]

12 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

IMO it`s not too unusual. Genre-shows are often much lower-rated than drama shows (in terms of audience numbers) but fandom-wise, they are the juggernauts with much more involved online fandoms. It`s also why those type of drama shows usually don`t have conventions. 

Supernatural, even at the best of times, always had this slightly charming but goofy writing (with lots of flaws) that just invited fanfic and fandom. 

Also, the worse the writing of a show gets, fandom activity often ramps up, even if 85 % of it only is rants. Haha.

This is the first and only fandom that I've ever taken part in, so I'm pretty nervous about joining in on The Boys forum after Supernatural ends, but I will now say that ITA with the bolded words here.

And I will further add that, I haven't really fully enjoyed taking part in this fandom for a while now-since Andre Badd took over, in all honesty-because of that last paragraph.

I don't like dissing this show week after week, but man, the writing just invites it now far more often than it ever used to, AFAIC.

Here's to hoping that Kripke can keep it fresh with The Boys. I recently read an article that gave a breakdown of every supe they've ever had on the show or even mentioned and with Jensen now coming aboard and bringing so many possible storylines in along with his character, it kind of feels like it used to feel for me within the Supernatural fandom back in s3 and 4, when they were ramping it up with a possible central myth-arc role for Dean/JA. 

It's very exciting again, so it's starting to look and feel like whether I originally wanted to or not, I'll probably be taking part in my second fandom experience after Supernatural ends, all thanks to Mr. Ackles, I suppose.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Myrelle
Revision

[AwesomO4000]

8 hours ago, Myrelle said:

This is the first and only fandom that I've ever taken part in, so I'm pretty nervous about joining in on The Boys forum after Supernatural ends, but I will now say that ITA with the bolded words here.

And I will further add that, I haven't really fully enjoyed taking part in this fandom for a while now-since Andre Badd took over, in all honesty-because of that last paragraph.

This is my second fandom I've taken part in online, and considering my first fandom was the Buffy fandom, I was pretty much battle-hardened so to speak in terms of how fandoms could be. At least in this fandom I haven't been called awful names online or had my moral character called into question, so that was already an improvement.

[roamyn]

SPN might have the largest tv show con following, but Lucifer actually has had a bigger & more positive online affect.  The show has been picked up twice aft cancellation and announced ending, w/ Netflix picking it up starting S4 (and making it better).

I used to go to Cons all the time for another show that ended in 1979, and they still have a good size presence both online and at genre based Cons.  To the point that more & more of its followers are people who weren’t even born when the show was on.

So I can see SPN online presence chugging along for decades.

Edited October 19, 2020 by roamyn

[bethy]

The talk in the Dean thread about what has made Dean Winchester a great/favorite character has gotten me thinking about other characters I consider great and wondering if there are common threads for me personally. In particular this morning I was thinking about James Cole from the 12 Monkeys TV series. Cole is probably tied with Dean for my all-time favorite character. Both men had difficult childhoods, both men have had to deal with apolocalyses and are involved to one degree or another in saving the world, both men are loyal to a fault, both men get back up when they've been knocked down, and both men are willing to sacrifice themselves/their own (and sometimes others') happiness to do what's right. 

The writing for Cole was definitely more consistent than the writing for Dean, which is the advantage of a single showrunner who actually likes his main character. Sadly, I anticipate that the ending for Dean will not leave me as satisfied as the ending for Cole.

Anyway. It was a fun exercise for me. And it's inspired me to start a rewatch of 12 Monkeys. Because what better show to watch during a global pandemic than a show about the aftermath of a global pandemic! I can't believe I haven't done it sooner. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by bethy

[FlickChick]

@bethy - Great post! I loved the series and the character of Cole especially. And yes, he did remind me of our Dean in many ways. Actually, what impressed me most about the time-traveling series, is how brilliantly they wrapped it up - with it actually making sense going back to the beginning. That's impressive with any series, but with time-travel it's nothing short of a miracle.

[bethy]

16 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

@bethy - Great post! I loved the series and the character of Cole especially. And yes, he did remind me of our Dean in many ways. Actually, what impressed me most about the time-traveling series, is how brilliantly they wrapped it up - with it actually making sense going back to the beginning. That's impressive with any series, but with time-travel it's nothing short of a miracle.

Thanks! The whole series was beautifully done. I've rewatched before and it's amazing how much matches up over the course of the whole show. 

[Aithne]

This might be kind of silly, but I have 2 little kids and we watched Encanto for the first time the other day. One of the characters is a teenage girl gifted with super strength, and she spends a lot of time doing work for others. She gets satisfaction out of being needed, but also feels weighed down under the immense, seemingly unending expectations that others put on her. 

Anyway, it's a musical and so there's a song about it, and there was so much in there that reminded me of Dean's relationship with his family and the expectations placed on him. From the reversal of "I glow 'cause I know what my worth is" to "I'm pretty sure I'm worthless if I can't be of service" to the recurring "Give it to your sister ... give her all the heavy things we can't shoulder" and "who am I if I can't carry it all?" 

Anyway, it's a good listen/watch, and while they're generally very different characters (Luisa is a lot more openly emotional than Dean - she's younger with good, loving parents and a much less traumatizing life), it definitely hit on similar themes of overburdening your most capable, helpful kid and what that ends up doing to their perceptions of themselves and their place in the family. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Aithne

[Bergamot]

I am loving Jensen's portrayal of Soldier Boy on The Boys, but another character that I really like on that show is Kimiko. I can't help noticing how much she reminds me of Dean.

• She was raised from childhood to be a warrior.
• She has always been used as a weapon by those who were her authority figures.
• She had a brother that she would do anything to save.
• She will sacrifice herself to protect her family.
• She says that she wants to use her abilities to do good things for people.
• She thinks of herself as a monster.

One question that I was thinking about. Kimiko of course has Frenchie; does Dean have a "Frenchie" in his life? I know that a lot of people would immediately suggest Sam or Castiel, but neither of them works for me as a good comparison. As Hughie would say -- "for many ... many good reasons"!

In some ways, I might compare Benny to Frenchie. Benny met Dean when he was at his most feral and savage in Purgatory, but somehow he still saw something in Dean and grew to love and respect him. Also he accepted Dean for who he was, and didn't want to change Dean into what he thought he should be. And in the end he did not feel that Dean owed him anything.

Anyway, seeing the similarities between Dean and Kimiko, it is not surprising that I like her as a character as much as I do!

Edited July 6, 2022 by Bergamot

[Nick24]

@Bergamot What a wonderful post! I want to ''like'' it much more than once!

34 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

She has always been used as a weapon by those who were her authority figures.

Very true about Dean, especially in 9B and S10, when almost everyone wanted to use MoC!Dean as a weapon - Magnus, Crowley, even Sam and Castiel in 9.23.

ETA: But also that story with the vessels + Dean being a bomb in 11.23

34 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

She was raised from childhood to be a warrior.

I can see some difference here. IMO John was raising Dean as his soldier and Sam's protector, BUT in spite of it Dean has become a warrior himself. 

34 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

does Dean have a "Frenchie" in his life? I know that a lot of people would immediately suggest Sam or Castiel

Those two are the last persons in the world who I would suggest. I absolutely agree about Benny! I could also add Sonny from 9.07 Bad Boys. Sonny cared about Dean just for Dean and wanted to do something for him without any agendas.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Nick24

[Aithne]

7 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I am loving Jensen's portrayal of Soldier Boy on The Boys, but another character that I really like on that show is Kimiko. I can't help noticing how much she reminds me of Dean.

• She was raised from childhood to be a warrior.
• She has always been used as a weapon by those who were her authority figures.
• She had a brother that she would do anything to save.
• She will sacrifice herself to protect her family.
• She says that she wants to use her abilities to do good things for people.
• She thinks of herself as a monster.

One question that I was thinking about. Kimiko of course has Frenchie; does Dean have a "Frenchie" in his life? I know that a lot of people would immediately suggest Sam or Castiel, but neither of them works for me as a good comparison. As Hughie would say -- "for many ... many good reasons"!

In some ways, I might compare Benny to Frenchie. Benny met Dean when he was at his most feral and savage in Purgatory, but somehow he still saw something in Dean and grew to love and respect him. Also he accepted Dean for who he was, and didn't want to change Dean into what he thought he should be. And in the end he did not feel that Dean owed him anything.

Anyway, seeing the similarities between Dean and Kimiko, it is not surprising that I like her as a character as much as I do!

This is great! I agree with all the Kimiko parallels, of course. There's differences (she never had a John-like figure in her life, who had such a major impact on how Dean developed), but if Dean and Sam had ended up totally alone, I could see Dean becoming very much like Kimiko. Ultimately she longs for home and family and love, much like Dean, she can be vengeful and violent, but is also compassionate toward those who need help. 

The Benny-Frenchie parallels you lay out are interesting - I can see it in terms of a friend who accepts you as you are (there are a few other parallels, if you squint - drug abuse /  blood addiction, vengeful former bosses), and I think it's maybe the closest thing that Dean would've accepted. I think an immediate, relentless investment in Dean's personal well-being like Frenchie had for Kimiko would've freaked him right out. 😂

Edited July 6, 2022 by Aithne

[DeeDee79]

15 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I am loving Jensen's portrayal of Soldier Boy on The Boys, but another character that I really like on that show is Kimiko. I can't help noticing how much she reminds me of Dean.

• She was raised from childhood to be a warrior.
• She has always been used as a weapon by those who were her authority figures.
• She had a brother that she would do anything to save.
• She will sacrifice herself to protect her family.
• She says that she wants to use her abilities to do good things for people.
• She thinks of herself as a monster.

One question that I was thinking about. Kimiko of course has Frenchie; does Dean have a "Frenchie" in his life? I know that a lot of people would immediately suggest Sam or Castiel, but neither of them works for me as a good comparison. As Hughie would say -- "for many ... many good reasons"!

In some ways, I might compare Benny to Frenchie. Benny met Dean when he was at his most feral and savage in Purgatory, but somehow he still saw something in Dean and grew to love and respect him. Also he accepted Dean for who he was, and didn't want to change Dean into what he thought he should be. And in the end he did not feel that Dean owed him anything.

Anyway, seeing the similarities between Dean and Kimiko, it is not surprising that I like her as a character as much as I do!

What a great post @Bergamot! Benny is definitely Dean’s Frenchie! Now I’m head canoning Soldier Boy leaving Russia and heading to Louisiana to see if his vamp friend that he met way back in the day is still alive and kicking 😊

Edited July 7, 2022 by DeeDee79

[roamyn]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:01 AM, Bergamot said:

In some ways, I might compare Benny to Frenchie. Benny met Dean when he was at his most feral and savage in Purgatory, but somehow he still saw something in Dean and grew to love and respect him. Also he accepted Dean for who he was, and didn't want to change Dean into what he thought he should be. And in the end he did not feel that Dean owed him anything.

But what Kimiko didn’t have was a Bobby.  Who kept that feral, killing machine ‘monster’ at bay, by just loving him and givingi him some hard (and occasionally needed) smack downs.  But he did it to make Dean a better man.  Someone Dean could look up to and admire.

Neither Frenchie nor Kimiko had that.

Edited July 10, 2022 by roamyn

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, roamyn said:

But what Kimiko didn’t have was a Bobby.  Who kept that feral, killing machine ‘monster’ at bay, by just loving him and givingi him some hard (and occasionally needed) smack downs.  But he did it to make Dean a better man.  Someone Dean could look up to and admire.

Interesting, but I never saw any Bobby's positive influence on Dean even with all their retcons. I saw right the opposite. Especially post-4.22 Bobby. 4.22-S5-7 Bobby wasn't much better than John IMO. But it seems like I often have an unpopular opinion of the popular characters. 😁

Edited July 10, 2022 by Nick24

[7kstar]

1 hour ago, Nick24 said:

Interesting, but I never saw any Bobby's positive influence on Dean even with all their retcons. I saw right the opposite. Especially post-4.22 Bobby. 4.22-S5-7 Bobby wasn't much better than John IMO. But it seems like I often have an unpopular opinion of the popular characters. 😁

For me the bad parts of Bobby was bad writing that didn't match up with the actions from other shows.

You have him telling him that his life is worth more than selling his soul to save Sam.  You have him playing ball instead of training, allowing Dean to have a moment of childhood. 

I did hate some of the lines they gave Bobby.  But as someone that has forgiven a parent for being harsh, I understand that upbringing has a lot to do with how they react.  This parent says things and has done things that weren't loving but in their mind they have only been loving.  So perhaps because I understand some of the issues of an abusive parent, I can see the positive even though there is many things that look as though they can't be a loving person.

Bobby cared and loved the boys.  Even in canon they told us that Dean was his favorite.  He's messed up but even in his bad days he also showed Dean love.  If Dean created something positive out of that mess, he can't be all bad.

Edited July 11, 2022 by 7kstar

[Nick24]

6 hours ago, 7kstar said:

For me the bad parts of Bobby was bad writing that didn't match up with the actions from other shows.

IA. The main problem is always bad writing. 

6 hours ago, 7kstar said:

You have him telling him that his life is worth more than selling his soul to save Sam.  

I really liked Bobby in S1-3 and early S4. I liked that Dean and Sam had some person with a similar life experience, who could understand them and they all could help each other to deal with their issues. Bobby was being kind of harsh back then, but I had no problem with that. S4 finale ruined the character for me. In 4.21 Bobby asked Dean to let Sam go with Ruby, because they wanted us to question Dean's actions about Sam and panic room. Then all of a sudden in 4.22 Bobby didn't want Sam to go with Ruby and threw his ''boo hoo'' speech. And that was after Sam had beaten Dean almost to death. So another person wanted Dean to suppress his feeling/emotions. Again. Then Bobby's manipulations with the bullet in 5.18 made it worse. And finally Dean got ''not a person'' from Bobby in 7.09, whereas Bobby was being OK talking about Sam's issues, apparently Dean's mental state didn't matter. Another round of ''oh poor....suck it up''. All that made Dean's self-worth issues far deeper. 

6 hours ago, 7kstar said:

You have him playing ball instead of training, allowing Dean to have a moment of childhood. 

I don't know what to think about it. In 1.22 it seemed like they barely knew each other. IMO that scene in 7.10 was more about making Bobby look better than John. 

6 hours ago, 7kstar said:

Bobby cared and loved the boys.  Even in canon they told us that Dean was his favorite.  He's messed up but even in his bad days he also showed Dean love.  If Dean created something positive out of that mess, he can't be all bad.

Of course, Bobby loved them. So did John. Unfortunately, it doesn't make their influence positive for me for all the reasons above.

ETA: My problem with both John and Bobby is that they did not want Dean to be about Dean. They didn't consider Dean as a separate person with his own needs/wishes. He was always Sam's brother/protector or just a hunter to them.

As for Dean, Dean always loved his family/friends no matter how much they hurt him. This is tragic.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Nick24

[MAK]

IMO, Bobby's biggest "sin" was not telling Dean that Sam was back from Hell, and the excuse being--- "You were out!"

When did Dean ever vocalize wanting a "normal" life? He might have thought about it in passing, but at no point was it ever shown or told that he aspired to it. Bobby let this man grieve and mourn for a year, and was okay with it possibly forever. When does anyone think Dean would have gotten over Sam's being (as far as he knew) in Hell? A year, 2, 5, 10?

Bobby did not allow Dean any agency. Dean even says that he went to Lisa because he promised Sam, not because she was the love of his life. Obviously he wouldn't have stayed if Sam was no longer in Hell. Even if Sam wanted to be separate, Dean would have had peace, knowing he wasn't suffering (before finding out he was soulless).

3 hours ago, Nick24 said:

My problem with both John and Bobby is that they did not want Dean to be about Dean. They didn't consider Dean as a separate person with his own needs/wishes. He was always Sam's brother/protector or just a hunter to them.

I kind of think John, not exactly redeemed himself, but atoned for this when he apologized to Dean in the hospital just before dying. He acknowledged his bad parenting and Dean not having a good enough childhood. 

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

IMO, Bobby's biggest "sin" was not telling Dean that Sam was back from Hell, and the excuse being--- "You were out!" 

Thank you for reminding this! There is another problem. Bobby (and Sam, etc.) thought they knew Dean. But they didn't. They had a lot of evidences about that, but they kept ignoring it and kept thinking that they knew better than Dean what Dean wants, what Dean should do, etc. That's terrible. 

1 hour ago, MAK said:

I kind of think John, not exactly redeemed himself, but atoned for this when he apologized to Dean in the hospital just before dying. He acknowledged his bad parenting and Dean not having a good enough childhood. 

I thought that way watching 2.01. But then in 2.10 everything fell apart, because after all that apologizing John put on Dean another terrible burden with ''Save or kill Sam''. IMO John turned Dean's life into Hell with that.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Nick24

[MAK]

1 hour ago, Nick24 said:

But then in 2.10 everything fell apart,

Yes, but he acknowledged, to Dean, that Dean deserved better from him (John) as a father, and no one else in Dean's life even came close to such an admission. Like I said, it doesn't absolve him of anything, but it's more than nothing. 

(I'm sorry, I don't count Castiel's declaration as anything like that, because to me, that was totally self-serving, nothing to do with Dean.)

[Nick24]

48 minutes ago, MAK said:

Yes, but he acknowledged, to Dean, that Dean deserved better from him (John) as a father, and no one else in Dean's life even came close to such an admission. Like I said, it doesn't absolve him of anything, but it's more than nothing. 

I agree that John acknowledged that. I'm glad he did. I just wish he didn't make it worse at the next moment.

48 minutes ago, MAK said:

(I'm sorry, I don't count Castiel's declaration as anything like that, because to me, that was totally self-serving, nothing to do with Dean.)

Neither do I. Berens can put that speech....well, you know. 😊 Castiel had done/told Dean so many horrible things. Castiel owed Dean a HUGE apology. But no, that was too much to ask. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Nick24

[Morrigan2575]

I hope this is an appropriate thread, found this online and it amused me. Series of shorts, not finished yet so it hasn't been compiled into 1 YouTube video yet.

I only embedded the first video because I didn't want to bog down the forumn. 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/8LVxkJYqh3w?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/1PvYVvzDXLI?feature=share

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/D8MDb9wPK1Y?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/1bMmeTzxxYs?feature=share

 

 

 

 

[bethy]

I’ve been watching The Chosen, which is about Jesus and the disciples. The latest episode I watched had Jesus exorcising a demon (and kudos to the show for the creepiness of that portrayal), and when He said, “Get out!” I legit expected black smoke to pour out of the guy’s mouth. 🤦🏼‍♀️😄