S07.E04: Ants On A Log And A Cheating Winker

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

We wouldn't need "they's," as "their" already exists.

I agree. But then there's the issue of using pronouns when nouns or Proper Nouns (names) are required for clarity of understanding.

I'm taking my further thoughts on this to the "Small Talk: Dinner at Red Lobster" thread, although some future posts on this topic could be more related to the episode here too, so, as Adult Sheldon often said, "Whatever floats your boat."

[Tom Holmberg]

I thought Sheldon was particularly unpleasant in this episode.

[Ziggy]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:32 PM, Spartan Girl said:

You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

They really retconned it. I don’t know whether to be relieved or pissed.

It was nice to see Mary make an effort with Missy. And cut loose.

I don't know that they retconned it.  Sheldon has never been a reliable narrator.

[Spartan Girl]

22 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

I thought Sheldon was particularly unpleasant in this episode.

I hate to play devil’s advocate, but even the nicest person would find it hard to stay pleasant had they been:

1) Stuck on an repeatedly-delayed flight for hours with a screaming baby

2) Been forced to sleep in the garage or couch because their brother’s bitchy baby mamma refuses to get out of their room.

3) Kept awake all night by a screaming baby when they’re already jet-lagged 

4) Found out their dorm room has been taken over by some rando who apparently doesn’t know how to flush

Edited March 12 by Spartan Girl

[Tom Holmberg]

12 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Stuck on an multiply-delayed for hours with a screaming baby

Of course he was unpleasant the moment the baby started crying. But at least he didn't threaten to punch out either baby a la "Poor Things".

Edited March 11 by Tom Holmberg

[anna0852]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

2) Been forced to sleep in the garage or couch because their brother’s bitchy baby mamma refuses to get out of your room

She *is* rather bitchy, isn’t she?
 

And maybe I sound like a bitch too but Mandy is 30 years old and college educated. She’s not a teenager by any stretch of the imagination. If I was her, I would be deeply embarrassed that I’m still unemployed and essentially living off the grace of my in-laws. Like, I get that Cece is still young but aside from that one job interview there has been no discussion of Mandy getting back to work or finding her own housing for her, the baby and Georgie. Mary was able to find full-time employment after having not worked for nearly 20 years and without any educational qualifications beyond high school. Surely it can’t be that hard for Mandy to at least find something part time. Alternate housing should’ve been figured out long before Sheldon and Mary got back from Germany. They had all summer to deal with it.

If I was Mandy‘s parents, I’d be horrified that my kid was behaving this way. She had to be asked to do chores? It didn’t occur to her to jump in and to take on the bulk of it instead of the 13-year-old?

Edited March 12 by anna0852

[shapeshifter]

Caring for an infant = 2 full-time jobs

[possibilities]

And if she gets a job outside the home, they will need to pay for childcare. 

I thought Sheldon was horrifyingly wrong to think that the infant should sleep in the garage.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

And if she gets a job outside the home, they will need to pay for childcare. 

I thought Sheldon was horrifyingly wrong to think that the infant should sleep in the garage.

Don’t get me wrong, of course the baby shouldn’t sleep in the garage, but my point is Mandy and Georgie can have other options. She just won’t go to her parents’ house where there is more room out of pure spite.

Edited March 12 by Spartan Girl

[Yeah No]

On 3/10/2024 at 10:26 AM, Chit Chat said:

In my experience, although my parents spoke correctly, it helped to have teachers who emphasized the differences in words such as 'their' & 'there,' and 'may I or can I,' and 'you're' & 'your,' and the list goes on!   Being in school in the 60's & 70's meant that English classes focused on those things.  Either some kids aren't paying attention anymore or it's not taught to the level that we had it.  We didn't use acronyms for everything either.  It's a different world! ;) 

Actually, I've heard that grammar and usage are not being taught as extensively as they were back in the day and that may be the first big reason for the problem we have today.

Edited March 12 by Yeah No

[Chit Chat]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:12 PM, Tom Holmberg said:

Of course he was unpleasant the moment the baby started crying.

IIRC, I don't think he was rude to anybody else.  He just got annoying to Mary because he wouldn't shut up about it.  It was funny how she responded to him. 

Honestly, I don't feel too pleasant whenever a baby or child is crying and/or screaming on an airplane (or a restaurant).  I sympathize with the parent(s) who are traveling with little ones because I know it's difficult, especially the pressure on their little ears while flying, but I think it's okay if I grumble one time to Mr. Chat about it!!  I didn't mind Sheldon not liking the crying, but when there's nothing you can do about it, he needed to let it go and just sit quietly.  

[displayname]

I'm of two minds with the retcon. On one hand, I adore the YS version of Sheldon's father and it's nice to see his character not going all bad. On the other hand, I just don't know what to think of Sheldon growing up, thinking the worst of his father after this... Which was brought up before in the relevant thread:

I do buy that Sheldon's memories are very biased due to his interpretation though.

Spoiler

Tam being an enemy for Adult Sheldon comes to mind.

 

Edited March 13 by displayname

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

I do buy that Sheldon's memories are very biased due to his interpretation though.

As someone who doesn't like the retcon, I've always said that Sheldon can be biased and wrong about subjective things but making him wrong about objective things is a poor move. 

Sheldon thinking that his father is a drunk because he has a beer every night is fine with me because Sheldon thinks any alcohol consumption is too much consumption. Sheldon interpreting adult fights as worse than they are because he is uncomfortable with his parents fighting at all makes sense. Suggesting his siblings are drooling idiots when they are in fact totally normal people just because they aren't as smart as him is in character for Sheldon. Sheldon being wrong about subjective things is in character for Sheldon.

Sheldon knowing that his father had a girlfriend who he can describe physically and can provide details of interactions with isn't something that can be passed off as Sheldon has a bias. George shooting the TV because he was upset with a football score isn't something that can be passed off as a bias. George getting into a fight with Mary and skeet shooting her plates isn't something that can be passed off as a bias. Those aren't opinions Sheldon has; they are events he experienced. And he may not describe every single detail right but I don't believe he invented events and people whole cloth. I think Sheldon, who doesn't like to lie, did interact with a girlfriend who tried to buy his love. I don't believe he invented two separate instances of George shooting property. That is not accurate to the character that has been around for over 15 years. 

So the retcon of the affair here, I can buy Sheldon being wrong based on how they set it up but I don't like it because I think it portends other changes to things that Sheldon witnessed in an effort to soften the George character. The show is saving George at the expense of Sheldon and I personally care way more about Sheldon and the integrity of his character than I do George. 

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, vibeology said:

The show is saving George at the expense of Sheldon and I personally care way more about Sheldon and the integrity of his character than I do George. 

I'm curious as to how many viewers of YS there are, and how many of them never watched TBBT.  I'm also curious as to how those viewers felt when there was so much angst between George & Mary and they quit watching YS.  Maybe they planned to retcon George's storyline all along, or maybe if ratings took a hit because the show wasn't funny anymore, they had to alter it.  Maybe someday Lorre will explain it all.  ;)

[displayname]

14 hours ago, vibeology said:

As someone who doesn't like the retcon, I've always said that Sheldon can be biased and wrong about subjective things but making him wrong about objective things is a poor move. 

Sheldon thinking that his father is a drunk because he has a beer every night is fine with me because Sheldon thinks any alcohol consumption is too much consumption. Sheldon interpreting adult fights as worse than they are because he is uncomfortable with his parents fighting at all makes sense. Suggesting his siblings are drooling idiots when they are in fact totally normal people just because they aren't as smart as him is in character for Sheldon. Sheldon being wrong about subjective things is in character for Sheldon.

Sheldon knowing that his father had a girlfriend who he can describe physically and can provide details of interactions with isn't something that can be passed off as Sheldon has a bias. George shooting the TV because he was upset with a football score isn't something that can be passed off as a bias. George getting into a fight with Mary and skeet shooting her plates isn't something that can be passed off as a bias. Those aren't opinions Sheldon has; they are events he experienced. And he may not describe every single detail right but I don't believe he invented events and people whole cloth. I think Sheldon, who doesn't like to lie, did interact with a girlfriend who tried to buy his love. I don't believe he invented two separate instances of George shooting property. That is not accurate to the character that has been around for over 15 years. 

So the retcon of the affair here, I can buy Sheldon being wrong based on how they set it up but I don't like it because I think it portends other changes to things that Sheldon witnessed in an effort to soften the George character. The show is saving George at the expense of Sheldon and I personally care way more about Sheldon and the integrity of his character than I do George. 

On that thread, I'd said that I wanted to see the storyline play out accurately, so I don't necessarily disagree. Still, there's more of the story left. We'll see what else happens. If it's a complete retcon, I'll be disappointed. But I enjoy YS quite a lot and can separate it from TBBT, so there's that too, at least for me.

Spoiler

As I say on that thread, it is strange to me that the Sheldon who can't keep secrets somehow kept quiet about the affair to everyone else, if TBBT Sheldon is to be believed. He can tell Missy, he can tell Georgie, the word can get around town like that, and it can lead to George and Mary fighting, even if they know what Sheldon "saw" was wrong. Who knows who the "bottle blonde bartender" who tried to buy his affection really is right now.

 

Edited March 14 by displayname

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, Yeah No said:

Note that his one child that went to college uses better grammar than his other two kids so in her case education might have helped.

I didn't learn grammar in college.  It may be that the child who was more of a student of the English language throughout his education was also more likely/motivated to attend college. Or that child might have done better on college entrance exams, and might have had less trouble writing college essays and garnering teacher recommendations.

On 3/13/2024 at 2:39 PM, Chit Chat said:

Maybe they planned to retcon George's storyline all along, or maybe if ratings took a hit because the show wasn't funny anymore, they had to alter it.

When did ratings take a hit?

[Chit Chat]

Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

When did ratings take a hit?

I said "or maybe if ratings took a hit.."  I don't know if they did.  I'm trying to figure out reasons that they may or may not have planned this storyline all along.  :)

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I didn't learn grammar in college.  It may be that the child who was more of a student of the English language throughout his education was also more likely/motivated to attend college. Or that child might have done better on college entrance exams, and might have had less trouble writing college essays and garnering teacher recommendations.

I didn't learn grammar in college either but writing papers certainly helped me improve it, and that's what I was referring to there.

The child I spoke of is a woman and she was the eldest child so I see some of her motivation to attend college as influenced by that.  Her other two siblings really do act like middle and younger children respectively so birth order in this family seems to play a role.

[Yeah No]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:39 PM, Chit Chat said:

I'm curious as to how many viewers of YS there are, and how many of them never watched TBBT.  I'm also curious as to how those viewers felt when there was so much angst between George & Mary and they quit watching YS.  Maybe they planned to retcon George's storyline all along, or maybe if ratings took a hit because the show wasn't funny anymore, they had to alter it.  Maybe someday Lorre will explain it all.  ;)

I think Lorre was probably responding to viewer sentiment in retconning the "affair" because a lot of people didn't want any negativity like that on this show and complained bitterly about that here and all over the internet, especially aftr the episodes where George seemed to be flirting with Brenda.  I don't think most people are as hung up on "show canon" as are here on this board.  Personally I'm happy with the way it was handled as I do think it would have wrecked up what was in general a family show with an upbeat theme. 

On 3/13/2024 at 12:03 PM, vibeology said:

As someone who doesn't like the retcon, I've always said that Sheldon can be biased and wrong about subjective things but making him wrong about objective things is a poor move. 

But that's the thing - he's not wrong about anything objective, he's just making erroneous conclusions based on limited facts.

I've watched every BBT episode at least 4 times (I know, excessive, but my husband puts it on every evening as background noise during dinner) and I've seen enough of adult Sheldon misinterpreting facts because of his naivete despite his "eidetic memory".  He doesn't miss the facts but he can add them up incorrectly and jump to erroneous conclusions.  The conclusions are the subjective element. People presented with the same facts often draw different conclusions.  Even someone with an eidetic memory can do that.  And that's actually part of Sheldon's charm because people are more inclined to forgive him those errors because they come from his relative innocence in certain areas of life.  In this case the facts he was presented with were few and if that's all that Sheldon saw it's completely plausible that he could have added them up the way he did based on his unique perspective.  And I don't doubt that if the show tries to go further by having a blonde bar waitress give him gifts that he somehow misinterprets it will be a similar situation.

Edited March 15 by Yeah No

[monakane]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:04 PM, Starchild said:

That was brilliant! They saved George!

I agree!  I thought it was well done.  It's a sitcom after all.

[Yeah No]

On 3/15/2024 at 3:11 AM, Yeah No said:

But that's the thing - he's not wrong about anything objective, he's just making erroneous conclusions based on limited facts.

Quoting myself here - I just saw an example of older Sheldon's naivete making him jump to erroneous conclusions based on facts on BBT.  He was organizing Penny's closet and told her he found some kind of battery operated pet chew toy in her night stand, LOL.  The way he described it we all knew what it really was and Penny got up and ran out, LOL.