S06.E05: Willsmania

[MadyGirl1987]

I definitely think both Philip and Elizabeth were better grandparents than parents. They seemed to be close to and have special relationships with all 8 of their grandchildren. Of course, I think it’s easier to be a grandparent when you are not in the active child-raising stage. Not to mention the fact that you are older and have more life experience… 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:28 PM, Sweet-tea said:

The other Harry actor was also much more age-appropriate. Why did they switch to the older one? It's only been a few months since she died. 

Because showing the younger Harry actor drinking alcohol would have been absurd?  They needed a bridge actor who could pass for 12 or 13.

 

 

[Cheezwiz]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:24 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I love those green velvet-accented upholstered chairs in the scene where Charles surprises William at tea at Windsor.

Me too! I was drooling over those chairs!

I actually quite liked this episode and found the conclusion - mostly because of Jonathan Pryce's performance - quite touching.

I didn't mind the actor playing Will, but the casting for Harry was terrible - what were they thinking? He's supposed to be a 13 year old boy - not a college kid. And the HAIR - those terrible straight across super short bangs drove me crazy - Harry never looked like that!

 

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I didn't mind the actor playing Will, but the casting for Harry was terrible - what were they thinking? He's supposed to be a 13 year old boy - not a college kid. 

They had to change the actor anyway, either between 4th and 5th episodes or later. The former had the benefit that the first four episodes were shown weeks earlier than the rest.

[Urban Shoe Myth]

I have to say, I found Philip's speech, while movingly performed, somewhat disingenuous.  He continued the narrative that Diana loved the spotlight - as others have pointed out, initially she was Shy Di, but even in her later years, I never got the impression she loved the spotlight.  I always felt she appreciated what the spotlight could do for her in terms of raising awareness for her causes, and that she realized she had to give the press a little something every once in a while in exchange for the barest minimum of a liveable life, but I never, ever thought she soaked up the spotlight the way Charles, and then Philip, state. 

I also cede that we are seeing a man looking back at past mistakes, and perhaps really regretting the way he parented Charles, but I thought that Philip should have also acknowledged that William had a point blaming Charles for some of it.  While technically not Charles' "fault", it was true that Diana wanted to escape England during Camilla's birthday party thrown by Charles.  It was true that she was not provided with the protection of a royal that she should have had. 

And, as others have mentioned - that is not Harry!  The haircut alone is atrocious.  The lack of any scenes of a barely teenage Harry floundering his way through his own grief really stood out as a sore spot for me.  

[Cheezwiz]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

he former had the benefit that the first four episodes were shown weeks earlier than the rest.

They should have kept the previous two actors for just the Willsmania ep, as the episodes are only supposed to be weeks apart in time. They could have done a subsequent time-jump for the remaining episodes with older actors. Regardless, the casting was terrible for Harry - no resemblance whatsoever.

[Sweet-tea]

17 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Because showing the younger Harry actor drinking alcohol would have been absurd?  They needed a bridge actor who could pass for 12 or 13.

 

 

Perhaps but he couldn’t pass. He looked at least late teens to me. 

4 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

They should have kept the previous two actors for just the Willsmania ep, as the episodes are only supposed to be weeks apart in time. They could have done a subsequent time-jump for the remaining episodes with older actors. Regardless, the casting was terrible for Harry - no resemblance whatsoever.

Absolutely agree. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

20 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Because showing the younger Harry actor drinking alcohol would have been absurd?  They needed a bridge actor who could pass for 12 or 13.

Perhaps but he couldn’t pass. He looked at least late teens to me. 

8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

They should have kept the previous two actors for just the Willsmania ep, as the episodes are only supposed to be weeks apart in time. They could have done a subsequent time-jump for the remaining episodes with older actors. Regardless, the casting was terrible for Harry - no resemblance whatsoever.

Absolutely agree. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sweet-tea

The younger Harry actor was a child and the older one looked way too old (and doesn't resemble the real Harry). They needed a 3rd actor to play pre-teen Harry in this episode.

[Spartan Girl]

I still can’t believe Charles had the audacity to bemoan to Camilla about how she’s supposedly suffering by lying low in the aftermath of Diana. “Poor darling.” As if that’s equally as bad as William and Harry LOSING THEIR MOTHER.

But then, this is the same man that screamed at Diana for publicly hugging an AIDS child all because he thought it made Camilla feel insecure.

 

[LadyIrony]

Surely Charles can't be so stunted emotionally? The best thing he could have done would just to spend time with William or let him know he is there for him if he ever wanted to talk. The way he keeps pushing it would make me uncomfortable too, then when William expresses anger he argues rather than listening. 

It was mostly a boring ep. William the reluctant pin up boy, oh the horrors. 

[iMonrey]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:28 PM, Sweet-tea said:

I don't like him as much either. He also looks too old to me. Wasn't William supposed to be 15 or 16 in this episode? The actor looks to be in his 20s. They should've used the previous actor and switched to this one when they get to the William and Kate years. The other Harry actor was also much more age-appropriate. Why did they switch to the older one? It's only been a few months since she died. 

I take the opposite view. I thought the previous actor playing William was a bit of a drip. I prefer this one. He certainly looks the part, from certain angles and from a distance. And I think a lot of this has to do with the writing - in the case of both actors. The part feels rather two dimensional to me. 

[Cotypubby]

I was so confused to the timeline because of the recasting of the boys. First I thought I missed an episode, so re-watched the end of the previous one to make sure, then I thought they did another time jump and it was already the 2000s, until they said Diana's death had been so recent.

Really terrible casting job there.

[Lorna Mae]

The actor playing William *utterly nailed* The Shy Smile. Diana smiled that way -- sort of scrunching up the mouth, head down, eyes to the side -- and so did William in his teens and early twenties. 

[Sailorgirl26]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:05 PM, Urban Shoe Myth said:

The lack of any scenes of a barely teenage Harry floundering his way through his own grief really stood out as a sore spot for me.  

I completely agree but at the same time I believe, based on interviews early on when the show premiered, that was also kind of the point. That this is a show about "THE CROWN" and how those who hold it (or will hold it) are always the priority, no matter what the situation, whether it's the "spare" sister wanting to be in a relationship with someone that went against the religious beliefs of "THE CROWN," or the "spare" son who lost a mother--their needs, feelings, emotions, mental well-being, even their core humanity-- simply don't matter in comparison to "THE CROWN" and the vessel who represents it. 

For all its faults, the show did an excellent job of weaving that narrative across all the seasons and all of the people who were in the orbit of whomever represents "THE CROWN." Individuals (including the individual who becomes THE CROWN simply hold lesser priority. 

As Queen Mary of Teck said in one of the first episodes--Elizabeth Windsor and Elizabeth Regina are two different people who will often be at odds but "the crown must win. Must ALWAYS win."

I think that's something that got lost a bit as well--the show was always intended to be about the CROWN, it's holder, and those in its orbit, not just about Elizabeth. 

I know, especially in later seasons, some watchers were not thrilled about the shift to focus more on Charles, but that was always the premise of the show. The Crown is (was) Elizabeth, Charles, and William, so it was always going to broaden the focus to include Chas and Wills and the impact on those in their orbit--namely Diana, Camz, Harry, and Kate. 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I know, especially in later seasons, some watchers were not thrilled about the shift to focus more on Charles, but that was always the premise of the show. The Crown is (was) Elizabeth, Charles, and William, so it was always going to broaden the focus to include Chas and Wills and the impact on those in their orbit--namely Diana, Camz, Harry, and Kate. 

The earlier seasons weren't just about Elizabeth but about the larger issues, thus uniting personal and general. That was completely lost and that's why the last seasons feel so trivial.  

[JudyObscure]

Moved to History thread.

 

 

 

Edited January 4 by JudyObscure

[Roseanna]

34 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I was living in England when she told the press (through Andrew Morton) her side of her marital problems, quickly followed by her self-serving  TV interview, all before anyone even knew they were getting divorced, blindsiding Charles and the BRF. The royals couldn't reply with their own side of the story without turning the whole thing into a Jerry Springer show, so they just had to sit quietly while almost everyone took Diana's side.

Actually, Charles replied, but nothing good came of revelations both made. More in the history section.

[sistermagpie]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:44 PM, Sailorgirl26 said:

I know, especially in later seasons, some watchers were not thrilled about the shift to focus more on Charles, but that was always the premise of the show. The Crown is (was) Elizabeth, Charles, and William, so it was always going to broaden the focus to include Chas and Wills and the impact on those in their orbit--namely Diana, Camz, Harry, and Kate. 

 

On 1/2/2024 at 1:55 AM, Roseanna said:

The earlier seasons weren't just about Elizabeth but about the larger issues, thus uniting personal and general. That was completely lost and that's why the last seasons feel so trivial.  

Yes, it seems like the shift to the other heirs is part of why it becomes trivial. Because Elizabeth, for better or worse, clearly has some belief in the Crown being important in itself. It's like a religious faith. When she faces a decision, she's always seriously considering if it respects it. When she's facing something strictly personal it's interesting because of the contrast.

The younger heirs just obviously don't have that in them. When Charles has ideas about improving the Crown, it comes across more like he has ideas for the business. He feels entitled to its privileges and finds some of the limitations silly or worse. So even when he's facing the same kinds of issues, it's still more trivial.

For instance, when Charles wanted to divorce Diana or marry Camilla, it was Elizabeth who seriously considered the ideas in the context of respecting the Crown and what it stood for. Charles was just arguing with his mother for what he wanted.

[Quickbeam]

I am watching this for the first time. WTF is the casting of that guy as Harry? You mean to tell me they couldn’t find an age appropriate ginger in all of the UK? I have half a dozen cousins I could have volunteered. 

And it’s not to slam the actor…his line readings were fine. He just looks like a 30 year old man.