S01.E04: Primitive Instinct

[Pop Tart]

Quote

Struggling with the hardships of motherhood, Elizabeth finds herself pulled in a new direction when faced with an opportunity.

Air date: 10.27.23

[Guest]

This was my favorite episode by far. I love the relationship between Elizabeth and Harriet and how they addressed motherhood. Getting Elizabeth out into the neighborhood was a good thing.

I didn’t love the time jump but am interested in the setup at the end.

I liked the fakeout with the two young girls and Mad is adorable. 

I think I understand why they structured the timeline this way but the execution feels clunky and jarring. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Agree. Really liked the episode. They also cleared up the question of the house deed and Harriet’s lawyer status. But I remain confused about how Elizabeth was supposed to do rowing with her infant and then they time jumped so we never got an explanation. I like how she is talking to imaginary Calvin. 

[aghst]

I was wondering why they concentrated on that girl if she wasn't Mad.

Clever transition to her new life.

Elizabeth seems like the kind who would think that she's too good to watch TV let alone star in it.  But 7 years later she gets this TV job offer and presumably she hasn't had any breakthroughs in the research since building up that lab.

Was that Dwight Schrute who demanded that the producer find a young fuckable hostess for the show?

I don't think that's a '50s phrasing, not that they wouldn't use curse words -- though less likely in a workplace setting -- but as an adjective.

Not a peep from the dog this time but 7 years later, it's still around.

Elizabeth was so in love with Calvin that he sticks around as this idealized version being supportive of her through all the trying times.  Maybe Ghost Calvin will also stop speaking after one episode.

So Harriet is another very able woman who has been unable to pursue her avocation because of the times.

Elizabeth and Harriet's stories are meant to be linked.  But beyond the timeline of this mini series, unless they make some big time jumps, they would have more opportunities in a decade or two when the Civil Rights movement takes off as well as Women's liberation, with women joining the workforce becoming a mega trend.

Elizabeth might be able to find work as a chemist by the late '60s or so and Harriet might have been able to have a significant role in the Civil Rights movement.

 

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, Dani said:

…I didn’t love the time jump but am interested in the setup at the end.
…
I think I understand why they structured the timeline this way but the execution feels clunky and jarring. 

OTOH, I wish they'd done back-and-forth time jumps from the beginning.
But your preference for linear storytelling, @Dani, is the norm, so I'll probably have to be content with the bone they threw me in this episode.

 

About the discussion over life goals between Harriet and Wakely:
If he took a well-paying doctor gig at a hospital, wouldn't that cover a babysitter while Harriet was doing her legal work, both paid and voluntary? 
Seeing the close-knit neighborhood, I imagine paying an "auntie" to babysit might be really appreciated. 
And given that both Harriet and her hubby are likely to be paid less than the norm for their professional work due to racial discrimination, and, also, that Harriet would be doubly financially discriminated against because of her gender, I can't imagine discouraging a husband from getting a good paying job in his chosen profession. 
But then, my ex was allergic to work — both paid and in the home — so maybe my perspective is skewed??
I don't think so, but correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

Kevin Sussman as Walter Pine — the not-lecherous TV producer — is perfect here. I know he's a pretty one-note actor, but type casting can be a good thing. Or maybe they just tweaked his role a bit to fit him?

Edited October 27, 2023 by shapeshifter

[EtheltoTillie]

Good comments:  Here's some more short takes.

Yes, that was Dwight Schrute.

I didn't identify Kevin Sussman, but I thought he looked familiar.

I keep wanting to try the food.

There was the use of "read the room" at one point.  Anachronistic expression.

Oy, what WILL happen to the dog?  Is he going to be the world's oldest dog?

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

OTOH, I wish they'd done back-and-forth time jumps from the beginning.
But your preference for linear storytelling, @Dani, is the norm, so I'll probably have to be content with the bone they threw me in this episode.

I wasn’t saying that I prefer linear storytelling. Just that their particular choices are not well executed. Back-and-forth jumps throughout or linear would have been better. The actual transition shot and future glimpses were very good but overall the past feels really unfinished. 

So, while I am interested in what they are setting up in the future, I am irritated that it appears we’re not going back to the past storyline. It’s like they set of an interesting storyline of Elizabeth and baby Mad and then immediately shifted to a different storyline. Why even include the scene with the doctor telling her he needs a rower immediately or Harriet and her husband discussing the future when we’re not going to follow those stories? That setup wasn’t needed when we’ll undoubtedly see Elizabeth involved in rowing and whether or not Harriet is a lawyer soon. 

[Phebemarie]

I don't have any trouble with 630 still being a part of the family in the flash-forward episodes.  He might be ten at that point at most.  My childhood pet, a brown poodle named Dino, lived to 16.  

I forgot all about the Mad fake-out in the book. I feel like I need to re-read the novel.  

[EtheltoTillie]

Taking the above to book thread. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

Here's another question.  Elizabeth is intent on calling her daughter Mad and tells people it's not short for Madeline or Maddie.  Then later she starts calling her Maddie or Madeline.  I guess it's supposed to signify how her love grew. 

[aghst]

It would be punishing the kid to have her name associated with her emotional state during birth.

Even Elizabeth wouldn't subject her to that.

[Bcharmer]

Calvin getting hit by a bus was foreshadowed. It gave me Six Feet Under vibes. I then thought to myself, "I bet there will be a ghost Calvin."  And, sure enough. Not that I have a problem with it.

The fake out with Mad and the other girl felt manipulative... but then we see who her father is, and realize that's how the TV show comes about.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Bcharmer said:

The fake out with Mad and the other girl felt manipulative... but then we see who her father is, and realize that's how the TV show comes about.

I’m torn on that. I liked it and I found it manipulative. I liked that it played on preconceived notions of what life would be like for the child of a women in Elizabeth’s position. But I wish there was a little more subtlety and nuance in the differences between the two girls. 

Which is my main criticism of the show. Everything is the extremes. There are very few shades of grey. 

[txhorns79]

Did I miss a scene where Elizabeth got permission from Hastings to set up a home lab?  Otherwise, she would have stolen thousands of dollars in lab equipment and I would have thought that would have been noticed when Hastings got the bill.

I was also fascinated by the story being told by the woman in the sewing show about how when she was a girl there was some war and her mother couldn't buy stockings.  Given the woman looked in her sixties or seventies and this was the late 50s, I kept wondering what war it would have been.  I also wondered why a sewing show would have a live studio audience, but that's just me. 

Finally, the network boss saying that he wanted a show that men would watch.  The audience for mid-afternoon programming (talk shows, soap operas, game shows) has always been dominated by women.  I didn't really get how a cooking show, even hosted by an attractive woman, was going to bring in a large male audience in the afternoon. 

[AstridM]

I don’t know what time Elizabeth’s show aired, but Julia Child’s cooking show in the 50s aired in the evenings. 

[txhorns79]

16 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I don’t know what time Elizabeth’s show aired, but Julia Child’s cooking show in the 50s aired in the evenings. 

From what I remember in the first episode, her show is "Supper at Six," and her studio audience was entirely made up of women.  To me, that would not suggest an evening program.  It sounds more like an afternoon cooking show so women might have something ready for dinner by six. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:56 PM, txhorns79 said:

Did I miss a scene where Elizabeth got permission from Hastings to set up a home lab?  Otherwise, she would have stolen thousands of dollars in lab equipment and I would have thought that would have been noticed when Hastings got the bill.

She faked a call from Fran Frask to the lab equipment company and said the equipment was for their new satellite lab. 

[shapeshifter]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:56 PM, txhorns79 said:

Did I miss a scene where Elizabeth got permission from Hastings to set up a home lab?  Otherwise, she would have stolen thousands of dollars in lab equipment and I would have thought that would have been noticed when Hastings got the bill

11 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

She faked a call from Fran Frask to the lab equipment company and said the equipment was for their new satellite lab. 

Yes, but it’s still seems to leave her open to charges of theft, which would ruin her career. 

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but it’s still seems to leave her open to charges of theft, which would ruin her career. 

Yes, that's what I was getting at.  I know she pretended to be Fran, but my impression was that all these materials were essentially stolen, since she was using Hastings to order (and presumably pay for) the lab equipment. 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, but it’s still seems to leave her open to charges of theft, which would ruin her career. 

Yes you have to hand wave in a big way. But that answered the question as to why it was not discovered right away 

Edited November 3, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[KaveDweller]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:32 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Agree. Really liked the episode. They also cleared up the question of the house deed and Harriet’s lawyer status. But I remain confused about how Elizabeth was supposed to do rowing with her infant and then they time jumped so we never got an explanation. I like how she is talking to imaginary Calvin. 

Yes, they missed that explanation, but I guess it wasn't important. It is explained in the book, but I don't think the book explanation would be plausible based on other changes they've made.

On 11/3/2023 at 4:04 PM, txhorns79 said:

Yes, that's what I was getting at.  I know she pretended to be Fran, but my impression was that all these materials were essentially stolen, since she was using Hastings to order (and presumably pay for) the lab equipment. 

Yes, and while she pretended to be Fran, she gave them her real address for the deliveries. They would figure out it was her in a second. But maybe we are supposed to think Hastings has bad accountants?

[Haleth]

I enjoyed this episode.  There was a lot of humor while moving the storyline forward.  I love that they made Harriet more of a big sister figure to Elizabeth.  So far Mad is a lot cuter than I was expecting.

I guess we are to assume Hastings accounting wouldn't notice the equipment order.  And yes, it was a strange scene where the doctor wanted Liz to row but we never saw if she did so.  

It's really hard to comment without comparing the show to the book.

[A.Ham]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I guess we are to assume Hastings accounting wouldn't notice the equipment order

Right? At some point they would have gotten a sizeable bill. There's no accounting department (or even person) at Hastings?

Edited November 11, 2023 by A.Ham

[chediavolo]

I hate the dead boyfriend conversations. I don’t remember if that was in the book. 

[Hanahope]

I will assume that Hastings accountants just saw the order for equipment and never looked at the delivery address.  They would just assume the chemists needed a restock of equipment.

nice fake out on the girl and then using it to explain how Elizabeth got the cooking job.

At that time, men worked all day and did not cook much at all, unless maybe divorced.  Very few would watch a cooking show likely in the late afternoon.

i still want to know where they are rowing in the fictional river in Los Angeles