S01.E02: Man Up

[Pop Tart]

 

Air date: 10.13.23

[shapeshifter]

😲

[Phebemarie]

The scene with her college professor was horrible.  I don’t remember how it was presented in the novel, but juxtaposing her fear of closed doors with the flashback made it even more powerful.  

[NeenerNeener]

I haven't read the book, but somehow I expected Calvin to get hit by a bus anyway. I just didn't expect it to happen while he was trying to deal with a recalcitrant Doodle.

Edited October 13, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I haven't read the book, but somehow I expected Calvin to get by a bus anyway. I just didn't expect it to happen while he was trying to deal with a recalcitrant Doodle.

Are we supposed to think the dog was playing Lassie and trying to save him?
Or are we supposed to think if not for the dog, he'd have crossed the street before the bus?

[NeenerNeener]

50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Are we supposed to think the dog was playing Lassie and trying to save him?
Or are we supposed to think if not for the dog, he'd have crossed the street before the bus?

The second one, I think.

[EtheltoTillie]

Was he supposed to show up at that meeting?  His neighbor was upset. Why did he act like such a jerk?  

[Eureka]

1 minute ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Was he supposed to show up at that meeting?  His neighbor was upset. Why did he act like such a jerk?  

Yes, she said she needed someone who looked like him to back her up.

[aghst]

Quite a litany of travails for Miss Zott:

Estranged from her parents,  sexually assaulted, blocked from her intellectual avocation by the sexism of her era, then falls in love, with a possible route to pursuing what she wants to do in life.

Only to end in heartbreak.

 

Stark mood or personality swings.  As a Ph.D candidate, she was more lively and expressive about her research.

After the sexual assault, she's devoid of affect, unless she feels trapped and traumatic memory is triggered.

Then she's drawn out of her shell gradually by Calvin, able to feel and express joy.

So after the accident, she retreats again to the stiff shell shown at the opening scene of the pilot when she's a TV personality?

[shapeshifter]

Yes, @aghst, exactly.
Which makes me wonder if I should keep watching.
Just because I can relate to the main character, and just because it’s well done — does not mean watching the show is worthwhile for me.

Will it be smoother sailing from here on out?

[EtheltoTillie]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, @aghst, exactly.
Which makes me wonder if I should keep watching.
Just because I can relate to the main character, and just because it’s well done — does not mean watching the show is worthwhile for me.

Will it be smoother sailing from here on out?

Taking to spoilers/book talk. 

[MerBearHou]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, @aghst, exactly.
Which makes me wonder if I should keep watching.
Just because I can relate to the main character, and just because it’s well done — does not mean watching the show is worthwhile for me.

Will it be smoother sailing from here on out?

Speaking as someone who really, really enjoyed the book and unique story, I think it’s worthwhile to see the series through to the end.  

[txhorns79]

I want to like the show more than I do.  I did not read the book, but it felt manipulative and unrealistic to me that someone so deeply traumatized by a relatively recent sexual assault only needed the love of a good man and a very rushed relationship to start to come out of her shell.  And of course, just as everything is moving along swimmingly, this wonderful man is hit by a bus.  

I also kind of wish the environment at the Hastings Lab was more subtle in how they portray the sexism of the time.  I don't really understand how the same people who barely seem to tolerate her expressing knowledge would hire her as a lab tech.               

[aghst]

Yes her personality changed too easily, unless they're trying to say in the '50s they coped without professional therapy.

She was triggered by being in a room with any man when the door was closed.

So Calvin won her over and cured her of the panic she felt?

If the plot was set in the 21st century, our heroine would need years of therapy to learn to trust any man.

I thought her saying she'd never marry and have children had to do with the sexual assault but she repeats it to Calvin and then they move in together.

 

Quite a contrast from the stiff and formal young woman and the way she was so relaxed at the pier after they tried to go rowing.

Then they progress shortly to some post-coital scene of both of them in underwear, completely at ease with each other.

Maybe these swings will make more sense over the rest of the season.  If they don't attempt to explain it, it would be strange.

[Guest]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:31 PM, txhorns79 said:

I want to like the show more than I do.  I did not read the book, but it felt manipulative and unrealistic to me that someone so deeply traumatized by a relatively recent sexual assault only needed the love of a good man and a very rushed relationship to start to come out of her shell.  And of course, just as everything is moving along swimmingly, this wonderful man is hit by a bus.  

I didn’t see it as her being changed by the love of a good man or even coming out of her shell. I thought her apparent personality change was because he took what was an unsafe environment and made it into a safe environment for her. Before that she could not be herself because every inch of that place was a hostile environment.

I liked the parallel with the neighbor who was asking him to show up for nearly the same reason. 

I loved their relationship because it was refreshingly mature for television. It was rushed for show reasons but I don’t think it was an unrealistic progression. She put up a boundary and he thoughtlessly ignored that boundary so she established more strict boundaries. He respected those boundaries once he understood it was a boundary and not just a quirk they could compromise on. He listened to her, he heard what she was saying and made it clear she could trust him so she let herself be herself with him. 

[Shermie]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:31 PM, txhorns79 said:

I also kind of wish the environment at the Hastings Lab was more subtle in how they portray the sexism of the time.  I don't really understand how the same people who barely seem to tolerate her expressing knowledge would hire her as a lab tech.

Overt sexism was the order of the day back then. Lab tech is women’s work, so she’d be accepted there. When she expressed more knowledge and ambition, she’s seen as stepping out of her place. Like someone from the secretarial pool not being taken seriously as someone with a head for business. 

On 10/17/2023 at 1:39 AM, aghst said:

her personality changed too easily, unless they're trying to say in the '50s they coped without professional therapy.

She was triggered by being in a room with any man when the door was closed.

So Calvin won her over and cured her of the panic she felt?

He didn’t “cure” her, she felt comfortable with him because she trusted him. No one else she worked with showed she could trust them. So of course she’s more relaxed with Calvin than anyone else.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

Lab tech is women’s work, so she’d be accepted there. When she expressed more knowledge and ambition, she’s seen as stepping out of her place.

In 1970, when I and another girl who were tracking to be valedictorian and salutatorian of our graduating high school class the following year, the administration determined that we should instead start college a year early.*
The same had happened to my sister 2 years earlier.
When I went to UIUC to enroll, I told the (male) enrollment counselor I wanted to major in biochemistry, but he replied that there was no room left in the College of Arts & Sciences, so I would have to enroll in the College of Agriculture and major in . . . Home Economics.

This is a big reason I'm watching the show.

________

* A boy did become Valedictorian, but I never begrudged him for it. He was very deserving. It was the men in the story that still rankle.

Edited October 21, 2023 by shapeshifter

[aghst]

Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan discuss the show, specifically the first two episodes, in the latest The Watch podcast episode.

They said regardless of the book, it might be a better show if they kept the couple together instead of killing Calvin off.  Instead they would both do their work and beat the patriarchy.

But then Greenwald says he doesn't like period shows where a current mindset is imposed on some distant past to win moral victories over history when attitudes were not as progressive.

They joke about the dog killing Calvin.

They wonder about how Brie Larson chooses projects and what Apple is trying to do overall with the Apple TV+ service.

 

One thing I meant to mention, the flashback to the sexual assault reveals the significance of the pencil used in the opening credit sequence.  Elizabeth was gripping the pencil in the scene where Calvin closes the lab door and she's having a panic attack, ready to use the pencil again to defend herself.

So that credit sequence featuring pencils is a curious choice.  On the surface, it could be about how academically or intellectually-inclined Elizabeth is.  The pencils draw formulas and curves and Elizabeth is writing down notes often in the first two episodes.  But it's also associated with the trauma and what kind of defines the character in these first two episodes.

 

[Mr. R0b0t]

On 10/16/2023 at 11:39 PM, aghst said:

So Calvin won her over and cured her of the panic she felt?

 

Not at all.  She grows to trust Calvin enough to let him behind her walls.  She's not been magically cured of anything.  That's not how it works.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, aghst said:

Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan discuss the show, specifically the first two episodes, in the latest The Watch podcast episode.

They said regardless of the book, it might be a better show if they kept the couple together instead of killing Calvin off.  Instead they would both do their work and beat the patriarchy.

Just from reading your post, it seems these reviewer guys are at least trying to be feminists, but I had to chuckle sadly at their premise that the female hero of this particular story would have been better off with a man at her side. 
IDK.
Maybe when the series is over we can get a brief alternate universe video of Calvin at home cooking while Elizabeth wins the Nobel.

A probably more unpopular opinion:
Does Elizabeth need a dog to protect her???

Honest question of dog owners:
Is having the dog hold its end of the leash in its mouth a real thing? Because I noticed that right off the bat as odd. 
And then it led to Calvin's death.

[MerBearHou]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Honest question of dog owners:
Is having the dog hold its end of the leash in its mouth a real thing? Because I noticed that right off the bat as odd. 
And then it led to Calvin's death.

At our house, it sure does happen!  Our dog is so hard to walk because she spends so much time trying to turn her head around and grab the leash in her mouth. 

As brilliant as Calvin was, he made the basic and fatal error of turning his back to the street and not looking as he was trying to coax Six-Thirty to walk.  

Edited October 21, 2023 by MerBearHou

[aghst]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Just from reading your post, it seems these reviewer guys are at least trying to be feminists, but I had to chuckle sadly at their premise that the female hero of this particular story would have been better off with a man at her side. 
IDK.
Maybe when the series is over we can get a brief alternate universe video of Calvin at home cooking while Elizabeth wins the Nobel.

A probably more unpopular opinion:
Does Elizabeth need a dog to protect her???

Honest question of dog owners:
Is having the dog hold its end of the leash in its mouth a real thing? Because I noticed that right off the bat as odd. 
And then it led to Calvin's death.

They weren't saying it would be better for Elizabeth or for a woman in the '50s who paired to do more with her life than marry and raise a family or some other traditional role for women in that era.

They were saying it might have made a better show than Elizabeth having to adjust to the loss and move in a direction she otherwise may not have taken if Calvin didn't die and they were able to collaborate on their research.

 

[shapeshifter]

43 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Our dog is so hard to walk because she spends so much time trying to turn her head around and grab the leash in her mouth. 

Sorry to be dense, but: 
Are you saying you walk your dog with the leash not attached to a harness or doggie coat (or collar in the 1950s), with the dog just "holding" the leash in its mouth? 
I've seen people carrying a leash not attached to their dog, but not with the dog holding the unattached leash in its mouth.

I was wondering if in the book the reader learned that Calvin decided to not attach the leash because he wanted to give the dog freedom to join him on his run, because that would have fit with Calvin's personality as seen in the show. 
But I also sensed some dred about what I saw. So, good foreshadowing. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by shapeshifter

[MerBearHou]

39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Are you saying you walk your dog with the leash not attached to a harness or doggie coat (or collar in the 1950s), with the dog just "holding" the leash in its mouth? 
I've seen people carrying a leash not attached to their dog, but not with the dog holding the unattached leash in its mouth.

Our dog’s leash is attached to the collar, but she spends more time trying to turn her head to grab the leash.  We tried the harness with a leash attached, and she spends more time turning her head trying to bite off the harness.  Walks just aren’t successful with our dog (also named Bonnie, not intended to match the author) but we keep trying.  

It looks like maybe the leash in LIC was leather which would be attractive to Six-Thirty to try and gnaw on.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

A probably more unpopular opinion:
Does Elizabeth need a dog to protect her???

I don’t think she has the dog for protection. 

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I've seen people carrying a leash not attached to their dog, but not with the dog holding the unattached leash in its mouth.

I was wondering if in the book the reader learned that Calvin decided to not attach the leash because he wanted to give the dog freedom to join him on his run, because that would have fit with Calvin's personality as seen in the show. 

Six-Thirty’s leash was attached to his collar. At several points, including when refusing to cross the street, he takes a section of the leash in his mouth. If the dog had continued to pull with part of the leash in his mouth, Calvin might not have been hit. Six-Thirty let go of the leash and the tug-of-war between the two causes the collar to slip over Six-Thirty’s head. The sudden loss of tension of the lease causes Calvin to stumble back. 

[EtheltoTillie]

You have posted part of that story before, @shapeshifter.  The biochemistry part.  But not the valedictorian part.  Sheesh. 

[EtheltoTillie]

There are dogs who like to carry the leash in their mouth.  Sort of like they are walking themselves. 

[anniebird]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:43 AM, aghst said:

They weren't saying it would be better for Elizabeth or for a woman in the '50s who paired to do more with her life than marry and raise a family or some other traditional role for women in that era.

They were saying it might have made a better show than Elizabeth having to adjust to the loss and move in a direction she otherwise may not have taken if Calvin didn't die and they were able to collaborate on their research.

 

They should write their own story then and have it made into a mini-series because that's not what this story is.

[Gizkok]

I had a dog who loved to hold the leash in his mouth, while I was also holding it. Then one day I noticed we were no longer attached because he had bit the end off! I've since learned from dog trainers that we should not allow our dogs to do this. As we have seen, when you most need to control the dog, you will be unable to.

[heatherchandler]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, aghst said:

But then Greenwald says he doesn't like period shows where a current mindset is imposed on some distant past to win moral victories over history when attitudes were not as progressive.

I’m late to watching this, but I can’t agree more.  It takes me out of the story.