S07.E08: Turning Points

[Athena]

Mid-season finale.

Quote

Jamie fights in the pivotal Second Battle of Saratoga. Roger and Brianna search for Jemmy.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[bluestocking]

I don't remember Claire going back to Scotland with Jamie. What could have persuaded her to go back to the colonies without him?  I remember her plot with the Greys pretty vividly.

Always enjoyable to get lots of Claire/Jamie time.  I'm not feeling Ian/Rachel yet, but great to have lots of Rollo.  

The battle scene where Jamie shoots off William's hat was very effectively done.  I was wondering how they would show that.  

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, bluestocking said:

The battle scene where Jamie shoots off William's hat was very effectively done.  I was wondering how they would show that.  

YAY! I was hoping that would make it in tae the show! Something to look forward to when I watch tonight.

1 hour ago, bluestocking said:

I don't remember Claire going back to Scotland with Jamie.

She didn't. Then again, I only read the buik once, so, I could be wrong. All I remember is Jamie going, his ship sinking or something, and Claire and Lord Jon thinking he was dead, which led tae...well, ye ken wot.

[nodorothyparker]

Claire did go back to Scotland. That's where Jenny gets all shitty with her because she can't save Ian Sr. and they drop the big time travel reveal on the family (Again, off page as most big conversations do take place in this series.) She and Young Ian return to America ahead of Jamie because she gets the letter of contrivance that she has to come back RIGHT NOW to operate on one of Fergus and Marsali's kids. Ian just wants to get back to Rachel and doesn't particularly want to hang around to watch his father die. 

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they realize the show's probably only going to stay in Scotland for an episode or two at most at the rate they're barreling toward the end of book 7.

Because of time constraints, I haven't had time to watch the entire episode yet. I've mostly fast forwarded to the scenes that most interested me and will have to go back for the rest of it later. I like the whole story of the death of Simon Fraser and Jamie and William's near misses on the page so while truncated, I think the show did a fairly good job with that, right down to "I believe I owe you a hat, sir." Loved Jamie leading the charge to go right over the fort wall, kilt and all, in what looked to be more about trying to see for himself that William didn't get caught up in the incoming slaughter during the retreat than what he really cared about the fight itself.

I'm trying to remember if Jamie had much book reaction to Daniel Morgan showing off his own whip scars like he was running a carnival side show, especially as in the books he really tries not to let people see them while somehow managing to show everybody anyway. Show Jamie didn't look at all amused by it.

[Jodithgrace]

I guess they couldn’t really have Jamie spending the rest of the series with only 4 fingers on his right hand…what a pain that would be to film. I was wondering though, right until he held up his hand to show me. Considerate of him. 

I am in the middle of rereading the books at the moment…I’m about 1/3 of the way through Go Tell the Bees. I was sure this episode was going to end with Roger and Buck getting to Lallybrock, only to find Brian Fraser. I thought that would be a fun cliffhanger to end on, not that I approve of season ending cliffhangers. 

I know they have to leave out quite a lot from the books, given that the books are massive and dense with detail, but they things they choose to show, they do very faithfully (finger amputation excepted)  I’m sad at yet another droughtlander. 
 

I noticed that they finally memorialized sinaid O’Conner in the closing credits  

 

[Linderhill]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

She and Young Ian return to America ahead of Jamie because she gets the letter of contrivance that she has to come back RIGHT NOW to operate on one of Fergus and Marsali's kids.

ahh yes. I think it was Henri Christian that needed a tonsillectomy I believe.  I am curious whether that whole plot point with the Greys will happen now.  I've also wondered whether they would have the Battle of Monmouth and that whole plotline.

[areca]

1 hour ago, Linderhill said:

I am curious whether that whole plot point with the Greys will happen now. 

There is absolutely zero chance that plot point will not make it into the show.

[nodorothyparker]

So much of the last couple of books are built around the plot with the Greys, who at times mostly feel like they're there to be one half of the backdrop of an acrimoniously bickering pair of exes who share a kid and aren't quite as over it as they thought. Which is how Jamie and Lord John read through a lot of it after all the big bombs drop. I don't see any way around that plot either, although it does feel then like we should have seen more of the time traveling final big bad skulking around both families if they're going there because at this point on the page he's just everywhere being a nuisance to everyone even if no one can yet put a finger on why.

But that's been one of the big issues with this speed reader season, as much as I've really mostly enjoyed it. Nothing is getting the time or space to naturally develop so the writing continually has to imply more than is actually there. I was really struck by it during Rachel and Ian's big romantic scene because we really don't know Rachel well enough and haven't seen enough of them together to find any claims of love at all believable.

I am glad they kept most of the Benedict Arnold stuff if only because I love how frustrating Claire has to be as the sole source of future knowledge. Nope, don't know when he's going to betray us. Don't remember the particulars or anything you might want to watch out for. Nope, don't have any choice but to go along with what will turn out to be one of his big grievances in turning. Because history happens even with time travel. But oh "you'll be remembered." LOL, Claire.

Thank you, show, for not making us watch a finger amputation. That's always struck me on the page as Gabaldon realizing she hadn't done anything particularly grizzly to Jamie in a book or two and wanting to show off more random medical knowledge she'd picked up.

But please, show, no more Brianna crying face. The actress really can't pull it off.

[Quickbeam]

Even in seconds of screen time, Sophie can’t deliver. The little girl is better than her. 
 

War scenes well done. I feel like the writers are speed reading the books, tearing out whole chunks in order to squeeze so much content in. I liked this episode for the Claire/Jamie content. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

So much of the last couple of books are built around the plot with the Greys, who at times mostly feel like they're there to be one half of the backdrop of an acrimoniously bickering pair of exes who share a kid and aren't quite as over it as they thought. Which is how Jamie and Lord John read through a lot of it after all the big bombs drop. I don't see any way around that plot either, although it does feel then like we should have seen more of the time traveling final big bad skulking around both families if they're going there because at this point on the page he's just everywhere being a nuisance to everyone even if no one can yet put a finger on why.

But that's been one of the big issues with this speed reader season, as much as I've really mostly enjoyed it. Nothing is getting the time or space to naturally develop so the writing continually has to imply more than is actually there. I was really struck by it during Rachel and Ian's big romantic scene because we really don't know Rachel well enough and haven't seen enough of them together to find any claims of love at all believable

Can you refresh my memory aboot the Greys? My mind is all fuzzy and I remember just burning through the buiks after the first season while undergoing chemo tae boot. 
 

And I still remain miffed at why Roberts and company feel the series should end tae match up with the buiks. Should just end it as 8 did. That way we would get more breathing room and things that make sense. I just rewatched Season 1 and started to reread the buik, and while scenes and dialogue were out of order, SO MUCH of it was put in the show.

It’s just laziness. And thanks for correcting me that Claire did indeed go tae Scotland. I wonder if Stephen Cree will return? We know Laura won’t. Which is a bummer. I can’t imagine anyone else playing Jenny and her chemistry with Sam was amazing.

Off tae watching the finale now.

Edited August 12, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[ruby24]

I don't think they do the plot with John and Hal, but they HAVE to do the Claire/John marriage and affair, right? That's basically the one thing I really remember from this book!

I forgot it didn't happen until closer to the end. I have to admit, I don't remember a lot of the war stuff. Watching it on the show, I've been like, when was all this? I remember Jamie and Claire spending a significant amount of time on a ship though- was that when they went back to Scotland?

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I don't think they do the plot with John and Hal, but they HAVE to do the Claire/John marriage and affair, right? That's basically the one thing I really remember from this book!

I forgot it didn't happen until closer to the end. I have to admit, I don't remember a lot of the war stuff. Watching it on the show, I've been like, when was all this? I remember Jamie and Claire spending a significant amount of time on a ship though- was that when they went back to Scotland?

There was a bunch of ships situations from the end of ABOSAA & in Echo, but luckily they cut the one set of shenanigans while they were on their way to NY  & Ticonderoga. 

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Can you refresh my memory aboot the Greys? My mind is all fuzzy and I remember just burning through the buiks after the first season while undergoing chemo tae boot. 
 

And I still remain miffed at why Roberts and company feel the series should end tae match up with the buiks. Should just end it as 8 did. That way we would get more breathing room and things that make sense. I just rewatched Season 1 and started to reread the buik, and while scenes and dialogue were out of order, SO MUCH of it was put in the show.

It’s just laziness. And thanks for correcting me that Claire did indeed go tae Scotland. I wonder if Stephen Cree will return? We know Laura won’t. Which is a bummer. I can’t imagine anyone else playing Jenny and her chemistry with Sam was amazing.

Off tae watching the finale now.

These last few seasons have had more dialogue directly from the book & plot points in order than from some of the previous seasons. I think this season especially has benefitted from the huge pare down that those books require. Admittedly it might be harder for non readers to have enough information about a situation to completely understand why/who/what.

The whole Grey family plays huge roles in the last 3 books! 
 

Steven Cree is returning as Ian, Jenny has been recast! 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Cdh20

[GHScorpiosRule]

I know Jenny had been recast. I’m disappointed that Laura Donnelly wasn’t available to return.

Loved all the Jamie and Claire scenes. LOVED BADASS Claire with the sword in the opening.

For some reason, I’m remembering Jamie shooting William’s hat as being a more “humorous” in the buik. 

[Quickbeam]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know Jenny had been recast. I’m disappointed that Laura Donnelly wasn’t available to return.

Me too. Laura was a brilliant Jenny. 

[areca]

I can't imagine anyone else as Jenny, and I'm already greatly disappointed.  She was _perfect_ from head to toe.

[sas616]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:13 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I still remain miffed at why Roberts and company feel the series should end tae match up with the buiks. Should just end it as 8 did. That way we would get more breathing room and things that make sense. I just rewatched Season 1 and started to reread the buik, and while scenes and dialogue were out of order, SO MUCH of it was put in the show.

I recently read an interview with Maril Davis where she said that when they started filming Season 7, they believe it was going to be the last.  They didn't get word of renewal for 1 more season until half of 7 had been filmed.  Scripts had already been written, though they did make some  adjustments to what was already scripted--such as how to end the season  (the plan had been to end as Book 8 ended).   With a Season 8, they will cover some material from Book 8 and Book 9.   So, I blame Starz, not the showrunner(s), for the pace of Season 7.

[Haleth]

Am I correct in thinking there is a second half of season 7 to be shown at some point?  This wasn't the end of 7, right?  Anyone know when it will air?

Bummer about Laura Donnelly.  I thought when her other show got canned she'd be free to return to Outlander.

Anyway, this episode?  Loved Ian.  I find I'm liking William much more than in the books and am annoyed by the Hunters as much as in the books.  Loved that Jamie didn't lose a finger.  Loved the deathbed convo with Jamie and Simon.  All scenes involving Claire and Jamie were pretty perfect.

I still can't recall much about Roger's search for Jemmie.  But as quickly as the show is moving it will be resolved soon.

[ch1]

The Hunters drove me nuts in the books - the thees and thous were beyond annoying. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Am I correct in thinking there is a second half of season 7 to be shown at some point?  This wasn't the end of 7, right?  Anyone know when it will air?

Yes. This was the mid-season finale. Just as with the first season, the second half will air...next year. No date if it will be January or April. I remember the second half of the first season aired in April, when the first half had the finale around September.

 

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Loved that Jamie didn't lose a finger.

Same. Even though he did in the buik. But the way I read the comments in the other thread, it made it seem like he did lose the finger. He might yet still.

[sas616]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:56 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I know Jenny had been recast. I’m disappointed that Laura Donnelly wasn’t available to return.

I'm not sure availability had anything to do with it.   When they tried to get her in Season 4 (I think that's the season), there were scheduling problems.   But at that time, she also said that she wasn't interested in playing an older Jenny.    I do wonder if they asked her to return for Season 7 or, based on that comment, just went with a recast.