Marco Polo - General Discussion

[lynny]

I'm pretty sure because during the battle, he saw Marco let his father run away rather than be killed. 

[lynny]

I'll start by saying that I adored this. I really loved it. But I think I'm dense. Can someone explain the Prestor John stuff to me? I know that it was mentioned in the scene with the Pope and someone asked in episode 6's thread about what happened to the missing Mongols on their way to Xanadu and it was suggested that Prestor John had something to do with that. Is he the leader of the army that Marco runs into and they flee from in episode 10? I feel dumb because it seems I missed a big deal plot point but I still liked this a lot and hope it gets a third season. 

[Pablo]

I tend to agree with the incest sub-plot. 

Ahmed kills her our of intense shame and guilt. And following this resolves to plot to bring down the person / system that is ultimately responsible for the whole situation.  

[BindsTheTuna]

Oh, yeah. That makes sense. 

[KaleyFirefly]

9 hours ago, Pablo said:

I tend to agree with the incest sub-plot. 

Ahmed kills her our of intense shame and guilt. And following this resolves to plot to bring down the person / system that is ultimately responsible for the whole situation.  

But if that was his mom why didn't he recognize her? And I still don't understand why he'd kill her. I think he's just nuts.

[thuganomics85]

It didn't even occur to me last episode that the Blue Princess is actually a figment of Kokachin's imagination, but somewhere in the middle of this episode, the idea crossed my mind, so the reveal wasn't surprising, but interesting.  Curious to see where this goes.  I do like how this leads to both Marco and Chabi knowing this and keeping it a secret.  Their relationship is pretty fun to watch.  They both don't really like one another, but seem to have a strange respect for each other to make up for it.

So, it looks like the unholy alliance between Kaidu, Nayan, and Ahmad has been set.  Kaidu still seemed to be wavering a bit at times, but him smacking Khutulun at the end, was a sign that he isn't playing around to say the least.

Byamba is getting suspicious over these explosive barrels and is going to follow them now.  If this is part of Ahmad's plan, I will find it hilarious if he accidentally screwed this up, by making Byamba a regular foot solider and stumbling upon all of this.

Marco gets another love interest.  Lets see how long she'll last.

Really hope Mei Lin is just putting up a good front, and isn't going to take Ahmad using her daughter like he did, lying down.

Kublai ends a grand speech with fireworks.  Ah, Kublai!

[thuganomics85]

Hundred Eyes vs. Lotus was beautiful to watch.  I'm pretty sure both were holding back on some level too, so I really do wonder what would happen if they really had to go through with it.  I hope they can avoid it, but all the talk about how only "one will walk away", makes me thing all of this is destined to end tragically.

Glad that Mei Lin was working against Ahmad this entire time, and told Marco what was really going on and scrammed with her daughter.  Knowing her luck though, I don't see it ending well.  I'm sure Ahmad will be going after her stat.  And even though he is clueless to what is really happening, I can see Kublai taking major offense to her running.

Thanks to that info, Marco and Jinigim find the camp with Nayan and Kaidu, and all that black powder.  Oh, and Byamba swoops in to and saves the day.  And then Marco sees Niccolo.  Yay, family reunion!

Totally think Khutulun will end up turning on her family and this is leading to her and Orus brawling it out.

Kokachin seems to be getting even worse now.

[Eegah]

I adored the look at ancient political debates, with both guys just spewing quotes from a beloved previous leader at each other (and the crowd loving both equally). Boy, we've come such a long way, huh?

[benteen]

Kaidu came across as his strongest and most decisive during the debate but the Khan had him beat.  He offered the Mongols the future in cities and not the past living in tents.

[Avaleigh]

On Sunday, July 03, 2016 at 10:14 AM, RCharter said:

You're certain based on?  I'm not saying for sure one way or the other....but given the fact that she is barely older than him, and she said her son was killed in front of her make me doubt that they are actually related.  Even by the standards of the day, 12 would be pretty young to both have a husband and give birth to a child.  And then there would have to be two different sets of people that took Ahmed and took his mother.  So much so that the mother believed her son to be dead.

Thats a lot of coincidence and conjecture -- not impossible -- but improbable IMO.

I thought it was obvious that the big reveal was that she was Ahmad's mother. The big clue is that she wrote the song for him. It was an original song and no other woman would know that song and have the same explanation for why they know it. This wasn't a common song everyone knew from his village. You can see Ahmad making the connection himself. She's the right age, they look alike, and it's an experience that permanently damages him. If she'd just been a random woman he wouldn’t have reacted that way and there would be less complexity in the overall episode. It's called Lullaby. The lullaby is the key.

As for why he killed her, I think it was because he liked it and couldn't deal with the hideousness that he's literally a motherfucker. He kills her because in his sick, twisted ass mind, that's the next best thing to pretending it never happened. By continuing to blame the Khan for her murder, he's absolving himself of the matricide. I also think he was greatly disturbed by the idea of his mother being and continuing to be a prostitute. He essentially wanted to press reset and have things be the way they were for him before where he'd already accepted his mother's death. 

Considering how our last season villain the Chancellor was sexually attracted to his sister (and possibly even his young niece) I thought the reveal was right in line with the tone of this show.

As for why Ahmad didn't recognize her. He thinks she's dead so he isn't thinking it's a possibility. Still, there's something about her that draws him to her rather than the other prostitutes, and I think it was probably because she subconsciously did remind him of his mother without him even realizing it. 

I think a huge part of his rage at the Khan is over this incident specifically and not just the way the Khan acquired him in the first place. The lullaby still haunts him this many years later. I actually think he might have been loyal to Kublai (or at least Chabi) had he not been psychologically destroyed by this incident. It forver leaves a mark on his sexuality and IMO that makes less sense if this was some random woman as opposed to his mother. 

[Avaleigh]

My heart constantly breaks for Mei Lin. Her life sucks and even her snippets of happy moments are bittersweet. 

[Avaleigh]

On Monday, July 04, 2016 at 9:36 AM, RCharter said:

I hope there will be a third season too.....but I like the this episode could be a season finale, OR could be a series finale.

I feel like some shows end and no one realizes at the time that it won't get renewed so you're like, "huh?" (I'm look at you Rome).

I'm hoping that perhaps word of mouth gets people watching this season.  I mean, how many people have NF just to watch OITNB?  So, they are already paying for the service, they should give the show another shot!

But I also know that this show must cost a lot to make, its just so beautiful......I heard that was the reason HBO decided not to renew Rome...even though it was a pretty popular show....it was just expensive.

I partially blame the BBC for what happened with Rome. Still the most disappointing cancellation to date even more than Carnivale and Deadwood. 

I hope this show is renewed. I didn't think I'd be into the show with them getting rid of the evil Chancellor so early. (What a terrific villain he was. Dude had me hissing at the screen.) Ahmad more than made up for it though and his death was very satisfying. I loved his Littlefinger run away moment from the fighting. At least the Chancellor was like a Littlefinger who really knew how to fight.

Kokachim's death was sad but in a way, she was so damaged that it was almost like she was finally at peace. 

I was confused by the final shot. Where were all of the dead people? Or were they not killed?

I think the acting in this show is great and don't really understand why the show has received such a cold reception from critics. What's the primary issue? 

[RCharter]

4 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I partially blame the BBC for what happened with Rome. Still the most disappointing cancellation to date even more than Carnivale and Deadwood. 

I hope this show is renewed. I didn't think I'd be into the show with them getting rid of the evil Chancellor so early. (What a terrific villain he was. Dude had me hissing at the screen.) Ahmad more than made up for it though and his death was very satisfying. I loved his Littlefinger run away moment from the fighting. At least the Chancellor was like a Littlefinger who really knew how to fight.

Kokachim's death was sad but in a way, she was so damaged that it was almost like she was finally at peace. 

I was confused by the final shot. Where were all of the dead people? Or were they not killed?

I think the acting in this show is great and don't really understand why the show has received such a cold reception from critics. What's the primary issue? 

From what I've read, the primary complaint was with the actor playing Marco Polo.  Apparently, he just wasn't magnetic or interesting enough.

Ironically, I was watching a documentary on the real Marco Polo, and apparently  there is very little about him as a person, or his personal feelings in the famous book that records his travels.  The characters he runs into and discusses are far more interesting than him.  And even as he tells the story, he is just there, almost as an observer.  According to the documentary, there wasn't even a recorded image or picture of the actual Marco Polo.

In light of that, I think it was the right move to have all the other characters overshadow Marco Polo.  At least it was more historically accurate.

[rozen]

I was full conspiracy theory mode this episode, because I kind of felt Chabi already knew about Kokochin last season. I was wondering if her statement was actually to indicate Jingam was conceived the exact same way. For all the screwing around Kublai does, the fact we've seen only one other natural son makes me raise my eyebrows.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Kublai ends a grand speech with fireworks.  Ah, Kublai!

That's Kublai for you: go big or go home.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Thanks to that info, Marco and Jinigim find the camp with Nayan and Kaidu, and all that black powder.  Oh, and Byamba swoops in to and saves the day.  And then Marco sees Niccolo.  Yay, family reunion!

I have to admit that this episode was dragging a bit for me until this part. I also loved the scene with Kublai and Marco when Marco told him he was going with Jingim. Well done by both actors there.

Poor Kokochin. 

[thuganomics85]

Mei Lin and Lotus teaming up to kick some ass was nice.  Of course, this ends with Mei Lin having to leave her daughter with Lotus and go back to help end this.  I don't see a happy ending for poor Mei Lin.  She just seems destined for a tragic end.

Kublai finally discovers the truth about Ahmad.  Too bad it looks like it is right after Ahmad hauled his sorry ass out of there and I'm guessing is heading back to the palace, where the rest of the army will meet up.

Friction between the General of the Crusaders and Kaidu/Nayan.  Not even mentioning Niccolo's reveal that they plan on killing anyone who assumes the Khan role, if Kublai goes down.  Yep, this alliance won't last for very long.

Marco doesn't seem to get anywhere with Niccolo, and now their is a big ass forest fire heading his and Byamba's way!

[thuganomics85]

I didn't check the time, but that definitely was the longest time into an episode, before they showed the opening credits.  Hell, it might have been closer to middle credits instead.  They pretty much had the entire battle before then.

Definitely think it was Kublai seeing Marco let Niccolo go, that has turned him on Marco.  It reminded him that despite their closeness, he still isn't blood and will still had a bond with his father, no matter how horrible he was to him.  Add in Chabi asking for him and pretty much letting everyone know Marco and Kokachin have some kind of bond, it sure does look like Marco is in the doghouse.  Not sure how he'll get out of this one.

All the fight scenes were great, but my favorite was easily Hundred Eyes taken out that knight decked out in chainmail.

Farewell, Orus.  You were too impulsive for your own good.  Good-bye to you too, Nayan.  At least Kublai gave you the choice on how you would go. Not surprised he picked the cross.  I will miss Ron Yuan though.

Ahmad has the palace now, so Jingim and Byamba are on their way, while Kublai goes to deal with Kaidu's challenge.  I have no idea how this is all going to turn out!

[thuganomics85]

Talk about more bloodshed!  Kaidu goes out thanks to a sword in the back from Marco (I guess that's one way to get Kublai to like you, again!  Save his life!)  Kokachin is possibly gone too, thanks to a somewhat assisted suicide from Chabi.  And then there was Ahmad.  His plan unravels, but in the end, the deathblow comes from the one he always underestimated: Mei-Lin.  That was beautiful to watch.  While I he didn't quite top Sidao as my favorite villain on this series, he was a great antagonist and I loved how he ended up being the cause of his undoing in a lot of ways.

If this show gets renewed, I'm guessing it's going to focus on the invading Crusaders?  Sure looks that way.  Have to think that was one of the reasons they are keeping Niccolo around.  Plus, getting Gabriel Byrne to play the Pope for one episode.

I wonder what Khutulun's fate will be.

Not enough Hundred Eyes this season, but him "escorting" Mei Lin seems like a set-up to have him reunite with Lotus.  Have to think there is a lot more to that story and their history to tell.

I liked that Kaidu actually did a decent job at the debate; it was just that Kublai was that more magnetic and more charismatic.  Plus, once he finally had to admit he did kill citizens while flying Kublai's banner, his goose was pretty much cooked.  Just bad decisions all around, on that front.

I do wonder if Netflix will keep this going.  It doesn't seem to get that much hype, but I do think it's a pretty good show.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  Benedict Wong alone is must-see TV.  And most of the others, especially Joan Chen, are great too.  Even Lorenzo Richelmy stepped it up, although he is still probably one of the weaker links.  As for why it doesn't seem to be getting much critic love, besides Marco being dull, I know it also got criticism when it first premiered for trying too hard to be "Netflix's Game of Thrones."  Especially for some of the more over-the-top sex and nudity last season (see: Mei Lin's nude fight scene.)  I did notice that they toned it down this season.  But I hope Netflix gives it another season.  Even if it's the last.  Just let TPTB give it a proper send-off.

[LocimusPrime]

Marco Polo sure didn't play his cards right with Kublai. Smh. Come on dude, capture your pops and turn him into the Kahn and the future would have different for you. 

[wanderingstar]

Kubali: Where's your father.

Marco: He escaped back to his men.

Kublai: Good. Let him burn with them.

I fully expected Kubali to add a vehement "I'm your father now!" 

Also, when Kublai said "A Mongol without a horse is like a bird without wings," I chuckled when one of the horses whinnyed as if to say "Amen!" 

so, Marco knows all the family secrets now. That can only mean one thing: he has to go.

[wanderingstar]

I thought this season was excellent and would love it if we got a third, because I just dig this ensemble of actors and how they play off each other. 

*I'm really glad Mei-Lin got to finish off Ahmad. 

*Loved Mei-Lin and Lotus teaming up to take down those men Ahmad sent after her. I wanted more badassery from both of them.

*Poor Kokachin, but like others have said, she's at peace now.

*Jingim really did grow up this season. And Remy Hii remains a beautiful man.

*Benedict Wong is a treasure. Ditto Joan Chen. They're both just a joy to watch. I'd love to see them both recognized come awards season, but not sure how likely that is given how little buzz this show has gotten.

*Not enough Hundred Eyes or Byamba this season, but I loved what I saw of them. Hundred Eyes' snark in particular was golden.

*If we do get another season, I'll miss Mahesh Jadu and Zhu Zhu. I thought they were both excellent througout this season.

Quote

(I guess that's one way to get Kublai to like you, again!  Save his life!)

Ha! I had the exact same thought. 

ETA:

Even though I loved Marco & Kokachin together, I also liked her with Jingim. They had a sweet, affectionate dynamic. If S3 happens, Jingim will be gutted about her death. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[wanderingstar]

Ahmad seemed truly heartbroken when he said goodbye to Empress Chabi. I think he really loved her as his mother. Kudos to Mahesh Jadu for his work in that scene.

[revbfc]

I love myths and legends as much as the next guy, but adding Prester John to the mix is like making a movie about the Civil War and shooting a scene where Paul Bunyon leads the Union to victory while riding Babe the blue ox.  If next season deals entirely with foes pulled from myth, then they better have Kublai and Marco fight a dragon.

[CapnJohn]

Wait, guys, listen!!! You really need to watch the episode when he gets attacked and he's in the cave if you don't think she's his mother! Remember he was talking about about his parents and he said he only remembers his dad's stink but he remembers his moms feel, her smell, and so on? Then he sang the song his mother WROTE for him and he said he died in his hands. It's definitely his mother. 

[Emily Thrace]

Its funny I was just thinking last episode how Byamba is actually a lot like Kublai but in many ways. He actually has the affability and charm of his father that Jingim (Who is his mothers son) wishes he had. He also has the temper as his commander found out a bit too late.  Byamba is also probably the only truly decent person in the whole cast. That I'm not sure he gets from the Khan. 

Also does Kaidu mother reminding anyone else of the witch for from Kevin Costners Robin Hood?

[thuganomics85]

Marco Polo is no more.  That's too bad.  It wasn't the best of Netflix's line-up, but I enjoyed the second season enough.  But I really hope Benedict Wong gets some great offers going forward.  He really commands the screen.

Edited December 14, 2016 by thuganomics85

[benteen]

Disappointing but not surprising.  I think this show deserves far better from critics and viewers.  Benedict Wong's mesmerizing performance as the Kublai Khan was CRIMINALLY overlooked during awards season.  Him and Travis Fimmel as Ragnar (imagine those two sharing the TV screen together).  I'm glad to see his career is really starting to take off now.

[SimoneS]

I just finished binge watching season 1 and 2. I really liked this a lot. It dragged at times, but overall the story was compelling. It was well acted with stunning landscapes and beautiful cinematography. I am sorry that it was cancelled, but it must have been expensive as hell to make.

Benedict Wong's acting talent is breathtaking. Kublai was cruel, charismatic, and mesmerizing. I totally understand why everyone around him loves and despises him at the same time. His wife and sons desperate for his love and respect. Hundred Eyes and Yusef trapped in his service, yet reluctantly devoted to him. I felt for Byamba and Khutulun, but that relationship was doomed. I am surprised that she is still alive. Poor Kokachin, death was a release from her suffering.

The reveal that it was Marco who branded his uncle and father was such a pivotal turn in the story, especially how he obeyed the Khan and followed him after giving them one last look. I liked the moment when he was confronting his father who asked what was the chances of them meeting again, only for Marco to reply that he was on the land of "my Khan." I knew then that Marco was totally sucked in even if he let his father escape.

I cannot not mention how beautiful the actors were, the men especially. The actor who played Ahmad is one of most the beautiful men that I have ever seen. I am not ashamed to say that I wanted to lick him all over.

Edited January 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[SimoneS]

On 12/26/2015 at 9:51 PM, TV Anonymous said:

Is the spitting cobra not native to Africa? Did Kubilai's Mongol Empire extend to Africa?

Cobras (including the King Cobra) are indigenous to south China as well as throughout southeast Asia.

[SimoneS]

Poor Kokachin. Her fate was sealed when she choose to become the Blue Princess, but the scene where Chabi tells her the hard truth about Marco was a gut punch. I am not sure that Kokachin believed her, but Chabi was prescient. Initially, Marco stayed out of love for Kokachin, but now he is enthralled by Kublai who owns his heart and soul. Mei Lin knows this as she listens to Marco delude himself that Kublai is not capable of killing the boy emperor.

Byamba is so delicious. Seriously, though Kublai personally beheading Kaidu's emissaries was insane. I would love to know who created some of the pivotal scenes in this series. They are beautifully crafted like dances. 

[TV Anonymous]

On 1/9/2017 at 9:02 PM, SimoneS said:

Cobras (including the King Cobra) are indigenous to south China as well as throughout southeast Asia.

Any of the Asian cobras spit? My understanding is that the ones that spit are native to Africa.

[Unusual Suspect]

Finally finished the series. Disappointed that there won't be a third season, I quite enjoyed the show. Admittedly, not as enthralling as some of Netflix's other offerings, but still solid entertainment.

I liked Marco, but admittedly, I do find the actor swoon-worthy, even in a cast full of sexy guys. Between the cast and the scenery, the eyes had a lot to feast on.

I'll miss One Hundred Eyes snark and badassery.

[Ottis]

On 7/11/2016 at 2:30 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I liked that Kaidu actually did a decent job at the debate; it was just that Kublai was that more magnetic and more charismatic.  Plus, once he finally had to admit he did kill citizens while flying Kublai's banner, his goose was pretty much cooked.  

Proof that if Kaidu had taken the high road he preferred, he probably would have won. Instead his evil mother lost it for him.

I just binged this show, and while it was rocky at first, I found it to be as close to Game of Thrones as any other show I have seen. Complex, and beautifully shot.

I did not understand the last shot, with the empty camp and Christian staff, though.

[Tyro49]

So, since we're not getting anything more of this show, does anyone know the real history of Kublai Khan?

[Tyro49]

How did this series play in Asia, which I presume was its prime market?

I loved the headdresses of the Mongol women, all beautiful, no two alike.