S05.E03: Typos and Torsos

[chaifan]

I feel like I have to rise to the defense of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and Midge herself.  I really enjoy the hell out of this show.  I laugh, a lot, both at Midge's comedy routines and at the comedy within the show itself.  Yes, by and large, if these characters were real, they'd be absolute insufferable assholes and I don't think I'd want any of them in my life.  (Lenny is the exception, because, well...  swoon...)  But that's what makes them such fabulous characters on screen, at least for me.  YMMV.

I'm not a fan of the flash forwards, but I'm accepting them as part of the show, and also accepting them to be "real", not some "could have been" or dream sequence or whatever.  To me, Esther is coming across to me as a somewhat neurodivergent genius, so I question whether she'd be any different no matter what type of parents Midge and Joel were.  Ethan, I'm not quite sure of yet, but I find it interesting that being raised what we've seen as a not very religious household, he chooses to be a Rabbi. 

Midge's fight with Gordon - I'm siding with Midge on this one.  (Surprise, I know.)  She's right on a couple of fronts.  First, Gordon approved the joke.  He can't now say it's not funny after he approved it.  Second, he did flub the line, and third, the laugh wasn't the laugh he was supposed to get. 

Gordon has to be viewed in the light of 1961, not 2023.  And by 1961 standards, he's definitely no where near the sexual harassment camp.  Even by 2023 standards, nothing he's done would fall under legal sexual harassment standards.  Inappropriate, yes.  Almost definitely against company policy at most places.  But also remember that even today, about 30% of married couples meet through work, and a lot of them are in boss/employee relationships.  Someone has to make the first pass.  We don't brand every one of those people a sexual harasser.  From what we've seen, he made a pass, it didn't land, and everyone's good.  I hope they don't make him an asshole who now rejects all of Midge's jokes or whatever.  But from what we've seen so far, I don't know if that's his style.

Suzie and the photo of Hettie...  I have no idea.  My first guess is that she's somehow tied in with the mob guys, or she knows she's a grifter of some sort.  But fun little twist to keep us guessing! 

 

 

 

[pasdetrois]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:11 AM, Cramps said:

I normally don’t care for Joel’s parents, but I was howling at their interruptions during Midge’s attempted act.

Some of the show's funniest moments are when Shirley, off-camera, is belting some nonsense in that foghorn voice. A little of Shirley goes a very long way.

[Suzn]

On 4/16/2023 at 9:11 AM, Cramps said:

I normally don’t care for Joel’s parents, but I was howling at their interruptions during Midge’s attempted act. And thought their bit in bed at the end was very sweet. 

I hated those interruptions.  It was like they didn't know how to act in public.  How could they not understand that she was trying to do her act, which did not include their participation?  It just made me cringe.

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

Some of the show's funniest moments are when Shirley, off-camera, is belting some nonsense in that foghorn voice. A little of Shirley goes a very long way.

Shirley is so awful.  She is totally obnoxious and oblivious.

[millennium]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:58 PM, Suzn said:

Shirley is so awful.  She is totally obnoxious and oblivious.

Are we certain that Shirley isn't played by Harvey Fierstein?

Both sets of parents are horrible, terribly unfunny characters.   This show really leans into ethnic stereotypes and presumes that everyone thinks it's just hilarious.   I'm convinced the writers are completely tone-deaf in that regard.  This episode was painful to watch at times. 

Future Midge seems like someone who sold her soul to the devil for fame and fortune, only to realize afterward she's been had.

[FaginZorro]

10 hours ago, millennium said:

This show really leans into ethnic stereotypes and presumes that everyone thinks it's just hilarious.

An example of this is from season 2, the Maisel's arrival in the driveway at Steiner's Catskill resort where Shirley was wearing a full-length autumn haze mink coat in swelting, humid summer weather and caterwauling loudly about something. 

While this was a great example of Shirley's buffoonery, it was also playing into an example of an ethnic stereotype of 1950s nouveau. Maybe the Palladinos think that enough time has gone by and it is now okay to spoof this trope/tripe, similar to how they think the standup routines they write for Midge are edgy and gut-busting funny.

While I am NOT of their ethnicity, TMMM has constantly depicted the Weismanns as educated and refined and the Maisels as common, coarse, crass and gross. (Both families are irritating and narcissistic.) Remember in season 1 when Moishe was going to kick Midge and his grandkids out of the apartment he owned, once his son Joel was out of the picture?

[millennium]

1 hour ago, FaginZorro said:

(Both families are irritating and narcissistic.)

And since these two sets of parents are the sum of the parents we regularly see on the show, it's almost like implying all Jewish parents are like the Weissmans and the Maisels.    I realize it's comedy but it does perpetuate a stereotype.   And future Midge seems to follow in their footsteps, even throwing in the "Jewish mother" disclaimer to explain her actions.

On a totally unrelated note, I loved that Fiestaware green wall phone at the Weissman apartment.   And also the yellow one Joel used.

In our house, the phones were always white or eggshell.  ☹️

[debraran]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:03 PM, millennium said:

And since these two sets of parents are the sum of the parents we regularly see on the show, it's almost like implying all Jewish parents are like the Weissmans and the Maisels.    I realize it's comedy but it does perpetuate a stereotype.   And future Midge seems to follow in their footsteps, even throwing in the "Jewish mother" disclaimer to explain her actions.

On a totally unrelated note, I loved that Fiestaware green wall phone at the Weissman apartment.   And also the yellow one Joel used.

In our house, the phones were always white or eggshell.  ☹️

We had yellow one as the the last one my  family owned. : ) Yes eggshell was always showing dirt more easily and being next to the stove.  I never got the pink princess phone I wanted as a teen but they actually still sell them for people with a landline.

I told a friend it is full of stereotypes but in a funny way, but some might think a little over the top. They don't show balance too much but obviously her relatives etc aren't like them. I barely remember the wedding first season, but she was one who made it embarrassing, not everyone else.

My coworker didn't know it was a comedy, but more of a drama and I told her to check it out, might be a new favorite and you get to binge many seasons. It has a large audience but I've never met anyone who watches it yet at work or home except one family member. Call the Midwife was like that for me, it took 6 seasons and a false start to get me hooked and then when not feeling well, I was able to watch and not worry about Covid delayed stories, I was good. : )

Edited April 26, 2023 by debraran

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

I barely remember the wedding first season, but she was one who made it embarrassing, not everyone else.

Yes, and by depicting Midge's parents and inlaws as OTT, it explains a lot of how she became Mrs. Maisel (the OTT) Comedienne. 
So I leaned into the obnoxiousness of Shirley and Abe.
Still:

On 4/24/2023 at 6:03 PM, millennium said:

since these two sets of parents are the sum of the parents we regularly see on the show, it's almost like implying all Jewish parents are like the Weissmans and the Maisels.    I realize it's comedy but it does perpetuate a stereotype.

Depicting Moishe and Rose as more restrained than they are might have offset the stereotyping.
But Stereotypers are gonna stereotype, so why make characters bland to try to stop them? 
IDK. Maybe there could've been a sort of Jewish Mother Theresa character who still ran a shop Midge occasionally visited for some unique cold cream or something.  Too late for that now.

[ChiCricket]

On 4/16/2023 at 6:00 PM, SnarkShark said:

And with a fiance that passes a verdict on Midge after literally 2 minutes of contact (and all her son can do is shrug, seem to agree, and say "she's my Mom"?  Ick.  

I was thinking that maybe the fiance had religious objections to how Midge was famous for having such a "dirty" act. I know very relgious people who consider  even listening to off-color jokes a sin. (not me..I swear like a sailor) 😁

Edited April 27, 2023 by ChiCricket

[FaginZorro]

It was disconcerting to see the elegant and imperious Emily Gilmore looking common and ordinary. Who woulda known that she had priors?😉

[EtheltoTillie]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:53 AM, ChiCricket said:

I was thinking that maybe the fiance had religious objections to how Midge was famous for having such a "dirty" act. I know very relgious people who consider  even listening to off-color jokes a sin. (not me..I swear like a sailor) 😁

That type of kibbutznik would not be very religious.  I’m pretty sure she was just reacting to what she had heard about Midge’s wonderful personality. 

[shapeshifter]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:53 AM, ChiCricket said:

I was thinking that maybe the fiance had religious objections to how Midge was famous for having such a "dirty" act. I know very relgious people who consider  even listening to off-color jokes a sin. (not me..I swear like a sailor) 😁

10 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

That type of kibbutznik would not be very religious.  I’m pretty sure she was just reacting to what she had heard about Midge’s wonderful personality. 

I thought it was a reaction to Midge's wasteful, entitled commandeering of a helicopter to let her son know to come to an event in which his mother was being "honored" by a Jewish philanthropy organization. Seems kind of hypcritical for a philanthropic endeavor, and definitely not socialist, which I assume Ethan and Chava tended towards in their beliefs. 
But mostly, it just seemed par for the course to me that Chava would not like her motherinlaw. 

But, yes, Midge's fame as a profane comedienne might not endear her to kibbutizim, regardless of formal religious leanings.

[smartymarty]

On 4/16/2023 at 7:40 AM, SnapHappy said:

Grown up Ethan's finance' was kind of a bitch.  Just a flat out "I don't like her" about her future MIL, to her son.  Really?  Go dig some more turnips, cupcake. 

Eh, I think you need to add "My first impressions is that I don't like her." I didn't find it inappropriate. Ethan clearly doesn't like his mother much, either.

On 4/15/2023 at 5:06 PM, shapeshifter said:

Question:   
What was significant about the wife Susie recognized in the photo on Gordon Ford’s desk when Susie was snooping?

I assumed she just suddenly realized she was in Ford's office and therefore skedaddled.

On 4/22/2023 at 8:51 AM, chaifan said:

Gordon has to be viewed in the light of 1961, not 2023.  And by 1961 standards, he's definitely no where near the sexual harassment camp.  Even by 2023 standards, nothing he's done would fall under legal sexual harassment standards.  Inappropriate, yes.  Almost definitely against company policy at most places.  But also remember that even today, about 30% of married couples meet through work, and a lot of them are in boss/employee relationships.  Someone has to make the first pass.  We don't brand every one of those people a sexual harasser.  From what we've seen, he made a pass, it didn't land, and everyone's good.  I hope they don't make him an asshole who now rejects all of Midge's jokes or whatever.  But from what we've seen so far, I don't know if that's his style.

Trying to kiss someone is not making a pass under today's standards. One must ask the other for consent to kiss, or otherwise touch, them. 

But yes, not sexual harassment because sexual harassment would either be him firing her for not allowing him to kiss her, or him constantly attempting this against her will.

Agree with those who find all the parents unbearable rather than funny. Comedy usually is rooted in reality. Thus when the "joke" is something like Abe obsessing over a typo, but the reality is that an editor and/or a proofreader would have read over his copy before publishing, I just can't buy the joke.

Also, why would Susie visit a prison when she doesn't recognize the name of the person inviting her? It's not like the prison is just down the street and anyone can just walk in. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by smartymarty
forgot to mention some stuff

[smartymarty]

On 4/24/2023 at 4:42 PM, FaginZorro said:

TMMM has constantly depicted the Weismanns as educated and refined and the Maisels as common, coarse, crass and gross.

Isn't it the opposite? The Weismanns made their money from wholesale, while Abe was an educator (and thus, educated). The Maisels are the sophisticated people with the upscale, Manhattan apartment, while the Weismanns are out in Queens. Mrs. Weismann is always loud and inappropriate, while Mrs. Maisel is quiet. Maybe you just got the last names mixed up?

ETA: I stand corrected. I was thinking because Midge is a Maisel, her parents are Maisels. That's what I get for supporting women not changing their name upon marriage.

Edited May 1, 2023 by smartymarty
I said why.

[Seelouis]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

Isn't it the opposite? The Weismanns made their money from wholesale, while Abe was an educator (and thus, educated). The Maisels are the sophisticated people with the upscale, Manhattan apartment, while the Weismanns are out in Queens. Mrs. Weismann is always loud and inappropriate, while Mrs. Maisel is quiet. Maybe you just got the last names mixed up?

No you have the names mixed up. The Weissmans are Abe and Rose. The Maisels are Joel’s parents. Midge is Mrs Maisel because she was married to Joel. 

[SnapHappy]

5 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Eh, I think you need to add "My first impressions is that I don't like her." I didn't find it inappropriate. Ethan clearly doesn't like his mother much, either.

Well, I was raised in an "I can say what I want about MY family, but you don't have that right".  Ethan seems like a tool. 

[Red Fields]

I guess I am in the minority. I find all of the parents entertaining, especially Abe,  even if I don’t love them. The stereotypes crack me up. I am of the tribe and I definitely have seen people like them.

I thought grown-up Ethan’s voice had Abe’s cadence,  not Joel’s. Maybe I need to go back and listen again.

[lucindabelle]

I kind of like that Ethan Brose up to be a rabbi, and that the entire flash forwards aren’t going to focus on the unaffected. I mean this affected daughter.

 

I kind of like that Ethan Brose up to be a rabbi, and that the entire flash forwards aren’t going to focus on the unaffected I mean this affected daughter.

 

However, if Hoppe grew up in Minnesota, she should not have an Israeli accent. If she mainly grew up in Israel, however, it’s very common for Israelis to see just what they think and it often sounds rude to AMERICAN ears. It takes some getting used to. There was an Israeli student in my PhD program, and she would always say the show is this or that. I was in a theater PhD program, or that is not what it means, or you are wrong. I actually had to tell her that to American ears in conversation that sounds really rude preface those things with I think. She was completely puzzle. I mean obviously that’s what she thinks. So some of this is cultural.

 

 I actually had to tell her that to AMERICAN ears in conversation. It sounds really rude preface those things with I think. She was completely puzzled. I mean obviously it’s what she thinks. So some of this is cultural.

 

One almost got the impression that Mitsch disapproved of having for the life of me I couldn’t see why.  She’s Jewish and she is highly educated. Weird. 

[Sarah 103]

4 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

One almost got the impression that Mitsch disapproved of having for the life of me I couldn’t see why.  She’s Jewish and she is highly educated. Weird. 

Midge and part of her generation of Jews grew up assimilated and trying to get away from the "Old World/Old Country" and become/appear American and to fit into the mainstream as much as possibe. The idea of becoming a rabbi would be surprising since the family was not religious/observant and was not what most of that generation of parents expected or hoped thier sons would become. 

[lucindabelle]

I’m exactly the age of Midge’s kids so no need to school me, thanks. I’m Jewish and from NJ. 
im more puzzled by her disapproval of CHAVA. 

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I’m exactly the age of Midge’s kids so no need to school me, thanks. I’m Jewish and from NJ. 
im more puzzled by her disapproval of CHAVA. 

Sorry. I misunderstood your post and which part of the episode/characters didn't make sense. 

[bettername2come]

Ethan turned out way more normal than I would've guessed.

I'm not convinced this season isn't just a dream from Midge who's still recovering from that hypothermia.