S03.E04: Part Four - No Win Scenario

[paigow]

Is Jack 2.0 a literary Changeling as well? That is, the human newborn Jack was immediately replaced with a different baby- coincidentally a ShapeShifter - and Bev has been brainwashed for 35  23 years that Jack 2.0 is a regular human.

The alien baby is the child of fugitives, so there is a bounty on him / it.

[starri]

I think Beverly would have noticed if he had to regenerate every 16 hours. 

[chaifan]

If the holodeck has it's own power supply, then wouldn't it also be able to provide life support to anyone within it?  So instead of Riker lamenting they only had a few hours of life support left, why not transfer command to the holodeck and order everyone to go there?

Vadic's thing with the changeling boss coming out of her hand reminded me of Professor Quirell in Harry Potter, unwrapping his turban to reveal Voldemort.

There's one bridge officer who seems to have the same nose ridges as Ichep had (which are similar to, but different from Bajoran nose wrinkles).  Did that race also figure out how to get from the Delta Quadrant to Alpha?  Did they hitch a ride with the Hirojin? 

I'll admit, I was a bit bored with this episode.  I loved the interplanetary vibe that Seasons 1 and 2 had, and being stuck on a ship with this cast is rather boring to me. 

[Affogato]

23 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm wondering if it's going to turn out that Jack isn't Jean-Luc's son and Beverly has lied to both of them because Jack's real father cannot be revealed. But somehow the Changlings know and Jack is eventually going to have a Luke vs. Darth Vader moment.

Not Khan, again?

6 hours ago, chaifan said:

If the holodeck has it's own power supply, then wouldn't it also be able to provide life support to anyone within it?  So instead of Riker lamenting they only had a few hours of life support left, why not transfer command to the holodeck and order everyone to go there?

Vadic's thing with the changeling boss coming out of her hand reminded me of Professor Quirell in Harry Potter, unwrapping his turban to reveal Voldemort.

There's one bridge officer who seems to have the same nose ridges as Ichep had (which are similar to, but different from Bajoran nose wrinkles).  Did that race also figure out how to get from the Delta Quadrant to Alpha?  Did they hitch a ride with the Hirojin? 

I'll admit, I was a bit bored with this episode.  I loved the interplanetary vibe that Seasons 1 and 2 had, and being stuck on a ship with this cast is rather boring to me. 

Thats what I thought, everyone to the bar for a drink.

I thought it looked like she had a changeling master in her hand, separate from her.

[Cattoy]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

There's one bridge officer who seems to have the same nose ridges as Ichep had (which are similar to, but different from Bajoran nose wrinkles). 

 

The crew info that was released at the start of the season said he's Bajoran, but given he has a human first name, he might be half-human.

[paigow]

The easiest way to describe Vadic is a humanoid dominated by a symbiote - e.g. Venom; Carnage - that is actually in her blood, not taking the shape of her hand.

DS9 canon clearly establishes the Founders as Non-Symbiote Shapeshifters . They could only impersonate Martok, not take control of the real Martok.

Unfortunately, Goldsman and his crew of idiot writers cannot be expected to follow canon.

Edited March 14, 2023 by paigow

[SnarkShark]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:29 AM, iMonrey said:

What exactly was the Nebula giving birth to? Jellyfish with eyeballs?

I'm unclear about that last shot of Picard and Jack looking at each other on the bridge. Did Picard remember that Jack was the kid who asked him about family five years ago?

An 18 year old kid in a bar who looked 35 should have been memorable. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, paigow said:

The easiest way to describe Vadic is a humanoid dominated by a symbiote - e.g. Venom; Carnage - that is actually in her blood, not taking the shape of her hand.

DS9 canon clearly establishes the Founders as Non-Symbiote Shapeshifters . They could only impersonate Martok, not take control of the real Martok.

Unfortunately, Goldsman and his crew of idiot writers cannot be expected to follow canon.

How do you know that Vadic is  not 100 percent Changeling who cut off her "hand" to power up the communication device? That was the assumption I was working with, although I of course admit that could be wrong.

As far as I know, we have not seen in canon what would happen if a Changeling cut off a hand-size part of its  mass from the rest of it. We know that cutting off smaller parts will turn it into goo, but at least not as far as I can recall, if the smaller parts can remain sentient or if they can be reabsorbed into the original.

[paigow]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:59 AM, starri said:

I think Beverly would have noticed if he had to regenerate every 16 hours. 

Love Candle Crusher might not be the sharpest scalpel on the tray...

[Good Queen Jane]

What if it was a Changling Picard who impregnated Beverly? 

[Prevailing Wind]

Conception may have taken place during "The Naked Now." Might explain why the kid looks so old. Of course, that doesn't explain where he was all that time.

ETA: If that episode had occurred later in the season, it would explain WHY she left the Enterprise to go to Starfleet Medical... But still doesn't explain what she did with the baby when she came back.

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Prevailing Wind

[tv-talk]

On 3/13/2023 at 7:52 PM, paigow said:

The easiest way to describe Vadic is a humanoid dominated by a symbiote - e.g. Venom; Carnage - that is actually in her blood, not taking the shape of her hand.

Nah, I'd say she is a Changeling and that was just a cool way to show her connected to all the rest of them in the goo sea. 

23 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

What exactly was the Nebula giving birth to? Jellyfish with eyeballs?

I'd say space Octopus or Cuttlefish, those species are all the rage as far as potentially having developed elsewhere. 

On 3/9/2023 at 12:05 PM, starri said:

’m saying this with complete sincerity:  That was the best performance I’ve ever seen Jonathan Frakes give.

100% with you this! Absolutely loved him continually telling Picard to stfu about attacking and not giving an inch to his former boss and Admiral. As a big fan of TNG, I would have guessed that Riker would have been too aggressive wanting to attack and Picard would have been "save the crew"...seeing that reversed with Picard almost seeming like  an old, unhinged man was good stuff.

[ML89]

I saw Jonathan F saying to some publication that he’d watched Robert Shaw’s Indianapolis monologue in Jaws to get into the right frame for Shaw’s monologue and it really did have that quality. Being a director has also made him a better actor, he was great. Now hurry up and get Troi off video and with them live. 

[Prevailing Wind]

6 hours ago, ML89 said:

I saw Jonathan F saying to some publication that he’d watched Robert Shaw’s Indianapolis monologue in Jaws to get into the right frame for Shaw’s monologue and it really did have that quality. Being a director has also made him a better actor, he was great. Now hurry up and get Troi off video and with them live. 

That's why Picard's Shaw is named Shaw...they thought Quint was too obvious. (I learned that watching "The Ready Room," but, boy howdy, is Wil Wheaton exuberant.)

 

[millennium]

I think we can all agree that starships are equipped with some badass sensor arrays, yes?  There are intruder alerts, environmental alerts, bio-scans, life-sign scans, they can pinpoint a unique heartbeat or body chemistry out of millions on a planet below ...

So why didn't the sensors pick up the odor of a human corpse rotting in a closet for almost a week?

I guess in all the Jack excitement Jean Luc forgot about Laris.  No final message, no last thoughts about her.

Best thing about this episode: no Raffi.

[RedHawk]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:18 AM, MissLucas said:

Why is Beverley the one clocking in on the regularity of the pattern? This is supposed to be a science vessel full of folks looking out for exactly things like this.

Ok I get that a doctor would start to count and uncover a pattern similar to "contractions", but why was everyone else (who are scientists!) standing around while she counted down many times and not recognizing there was a pattern, asking her what it might mean, etc. I knew they were going with the Kon-Tiki "13th wave" solution to somehow ride out of the gravity well.

On 3/9/2023 at 11:30 PM, rtms77 said:

If Jack is or was hijacked while at school, Beverly is one cold mother who can’t tell. There was that scene in the first ep where she locked him away which is weird if he’s been galavanting around the galaxy smuggling and helping people. Something doesn’t add up about those 2. If he’s been replaced by a changling it’s a new hybrid where they can possess a person? Same with Vadic, I’m not sure if she’s a full changling or hybrid. She was seriously frightened by that thing. 

Emphasis mine. I also remember the first scenes in the first episode where she had him locked out. Ok sure, she was protecting him, but he's a 3523-year-old man who apparently is used to dealing with Big Trouble. Why not let him help? I believe she knows why he's wanted. He doesn't. There's more to her story than "I couldn't protect the son of JLP".

On 3/10/2023 at 1:19 AM, Chyromaniac said:

Overall, I’m enjoying this season, and I think this was the strongest episode yet.  I liked that basically everything was focused on the Titan, and the impact of the danger they were all facing.  Lots of great performances, particularly from Stashwick, Stewart, and as mentioned above, Frakes.  I enjoyed the escape from the nebula, and appreciated the payback of the tractor beam attack.  And I thought the jellies at the end were cool looking.  Tbh, the only real issue I had was that what I felt was the metaphor of “find the pot,” turned out to be a literal pot.

I laughed out loud! It was an actual pot, even looked like the one in the photo!

On 3/10/2023 at 9:33 AM, marinw said:

The whole baldness thing: It may be hereditary (unlike British accents) yet there must be an easy cure by the TNG era. I've always assumed Jean-Luc's staying blad was a cosmetic choice. It makes sence, I've seen Patrick Stewart wearing wigs for various roles and he looks so much better bald.

I also had read Gene Roddenberry's explanation some time ago that in the future baldness can be "cured" but some men just choose not to fix it, and thought that was great. So now we go backward to baldness jokes -- cute in X-Men, tired now.

Yes, I've seen photos, perhaps of the one they wanted him to use when first cast as Picard. Stewart in a wig is dreadful! In 1997 I saw him play Othello at the Shakespeare Theatre in Washington, DC, and he/the character had a large tattoo on one side of his head. An interesting choice, just right for a military man.

On 3/11/2023 at 1:37 PM, Tyro49 said:

Did you notice how Jack looked older and older as the episode progressed? By the end he almost looked like an old man! Also, there's something in his head! Something is very not right here. The other characters act like they don't notice his appearance.

Also, for all the speculation that Jack might actually be a changeling or something worse, what if Beverly isn't Beverly! Has anyone else thought of that, or thought to have her checked out? That might account for her odd behavior.

I felt he looked older, too (those forehead lines!) and I'm ready to believe anything now. Something is very not right here, although as others have said, it may just be the writing.

Edited May 2, 2023 by RedHawk
Clarification

[Prevailing Wind]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I laughed out loud! It was an actual pot, even looked like the one in the photo!

Odo the Changeling had that style pot on DS9. They referred to it as his bucket.