S03.E08: Star on the Wall

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

Jack, Greer, Wright, Alena and Luka all work in concert to prevent the start of a third world war.

 

[dwmarch]

Well I wanted to like this season but there was too much going on that made too little sense for me. In the Tom Clancy novels you definitely know who the bad guys are.

Speaking of which, why the weird plot about Jack Ryan being a traitor? It did not make the story any better having everyone be openly hostile to him at all times while he was the only one who had any idea what was going on. That was just annoying. In the books, the good guys are all generally on the same side! Having said that, The Sum of All Fears has Ryan delivering bad intel which puts him at odds with the President in a crisis. But for an adaptation of that story, this one was clunky.

I am also disappointed that the show wasn't a little more brave with that nuke. In SoAF the nuke goes off in Denver. And it wasn't a super-secret Russian nuke built to look like an American one, it was American by way of Israel ("given" to the Israelis back in the day and lost during the October War). That book goes into impressive detail about how nukes have certain characteristics that cannot be faked. But here, the Russians just pretend it's American and almost start a war. I wish they had set it off right in the first episode instead of having an assassination in the stadium. If a nuke had just gone off and a city was wiped out the chaos in this season would make a lot more sense.

The ship vs. ship action is somewhat like the standoff in SoAF with Ryan and an old spy calming things down. So that was alright but it was a weird conflict to begin with. I also have to nitpick when they announced that the CWIS would take four minutes to reload.  A CWIS is a gun! They didn't even fire it! Why would it take four minutes to reload a weapon they haven't even used yet? It's weird because it seems like they got a lot of jargon correct (disclaimer: everything I know about the US military I learned from reading Tom Clancy novels) but their military advisor was asleep at the switch for that one.

I was also let down by the lack of legacy characters. We could have had Gerasimov and Ramius and Golovko! We could have had Bart Mancuso and Jonesy! And we're still waiting on Ding Chavez and John Clark to show up.

[ribboninthesky1]

I've not read Tom Clancy's novels, but even I was wondering why it seemed to be only Jack and Greer in the mix.  Wright was kind of an interesting foil, but got sidelined halfway through.  November just seemed to be around for quips and "comic relief." 

It's been three years since season 2, and I barely remember anything of it beyond Ryan being annoying.  At least the show was consistent in that regard.  I appreciate shortened seasons in this era of streaming, but this one felt like it could have been wrapped up in six episodes.  Also, I spent more time chuckling at the absurdity of the writing and dialogue than I should have given that WWIII at stake.     

I appreciated the cinematography and the eye candy via some of the handsome male actors I've never seen before. It started off well enough, but went downhill quickly.  Once I saw poor Krasinski struggling to run around the city in skinny jeans to the Czech president traveling around all tarnation with little to no security, it got increasing funnier.  

[Raja]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:35 PM, dwmarch said:

Well I wanted to like this season but there was too much going on that made too little sense for me. In the Tom Clancy novels you definitely know who the bad guys are.

Speaking of which, why the weird plot about Jack Ryan being a traitor? It did not make the story any better having everyone be openly hostile to him at all times while he was the only one who had any idea what was going on. That was just annoying. In the books, the good guys are all generally on the same side! Having said that, The Sum of All Fears has Ryan delivering bad intel which puts him at odds with the President in a crisis. But for an adaptation of that story, this one was clunky.

I am also disappointed that the show wasn't a little more brave with that nuke. In SoAF the nuke goes off in Denver. And it wasn't a super-secret Russian nuke built to look like an American one, it was American by way of Israel ("given" to the Israelis back in the day and lost during the October War). That book goes into impressive detail about how nukes have certain characteristics that cannot be faked. But here, the Russians just pretend it's American and almost start a war. I wish they had set it off right in the first episode instead of having an assassination in the stadium. If a nuke had just gone off and a city was wiped out the chaos in this season would make a lot more sense.

The ship vs. ship action is somewhat like the standoff in SoAF with Ryan and an old spy calming things down. So that was alright but it was a weird conflict to begin with. I also have to nitpick when they announced that the CWIS would take four minutes to reload.  A CWIS is a gun! They didn't even fire it! Why would it take four minutes to reload a weapon they haven't even used yet? It's weird because it seems like they got a lot of jargon correct (disclaimer: everything I know about the US military I learned from reading Tom Clancy novels) but their military advisor was asleep at the switch for that one.

I was also let down by the lack of legacy characters. We could have had Gerasimov and Ramius and Golovko! We could have had Bart Mancuso and Jonesy! And we're still waiting on Ding Chavez and John Clark to show up.

I could have sworn that the Prime X-ray feature identified  Matice as Clark in the first season, it diffenently didn't in the second when Uber was seen as a possible Chavez. But in the end due to the spin off novels my bet is that you never see them until Krasinski ends his run, until then Ryan will be the primary action guy as he was here in season 3 with his Jason Bourne routines. With the ad supported FreeVee channel acting more like a traditional network than Prime I would bet that would be a choice to continue with a direct action team.

Just by chance I recently saw a based on true events story of North Korea just deciding to sink a South Korean patrol boat over a border dispute so when the play came down to two ships trading missiles I was thinking doomsday clock or not the Americans and Russians wouldn't be on the nuclear hair trigger that the story demanded. From the Russian Captain's comment about now that Roosevelt is damaged he was going to shoot a follow up I am guessing the fight got too expensive to show so it was cut down to one explosion and they missed that the CWIS dialog after it was supposed to take out the second missile that the special effects team stopped working on.

[Absolom]

I kept thinking the CWIS was an editing error.  

[Raja]

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

I kept thinking the CWIS was an editing error.  

It was to give us more of a reason beyond he shot first why the Captain felt the push to fire back while Dr. Ryan was counseling to wait and let the defensive systems do their job if he was wrong. Maybe a report of the explosion knocking the CWIS offline was a cut made for episode run time? But I think the single shot provocation for budget reasons would be the primary culprit

[shrewd.buddha]

At least it's over..  For the final episode it looked as if they ran out of money and basically lost interest.
So many scenes in (unguarded) caves,  fake looking interior rooms of a ship, office rooms and hallways. Mood lighting and background music can't work magic. 
The Czech president running around Russia, alone, like a CIA operative was ridiculous. 
The whole season felt like an excuse to give the actors a European vacation. 

Character building details developed during eight episodes:
  Greer is on a diet.
  Jack Ryan can't run very fast, only speaks English believes every day is casual Friday.

Perhaps my favorite scene was in the mood-lit war room with the president and generals when CIA-woman was asked who her source was and she said "Jack Ryan" - - and the entire room groaned in unison.  I could relate to that.

[Sundazed]

Did we just watch The Hunt for Red October - Battleship Version?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Czech President has her own damn security team, but she runs all over Europe with Mike, a mercenary.  

Later she'll stand on balconies completely unprotected (oh wait, that was last season's why the heck are you doing that? repetitive moments).  Of course, as we know, she can go missing for hours without anyone being concerned and the entire security team she is accompanied by can watch her car peel off from the line and not be concerned.  

Not only did they keep Ryan in skinny jeans, they also had him wear very fitted suits.  He is a well built man but he would also want to blend in.  At least they gave the Czech President block heals instead of stilettos. 

The standoff on the ship that should have felt tense was lackluster.  Military guys gonna military, I guess?  When the Russian Captain said they had orders to fire and was challenged, did it not occur to anyone that he likely should have been able to produce those orders?  None of the communication channels made sense. 

I did enjoy Ryan saying he jumped out of the helicopter.  Jumped, pushed, potaytoe, potahtoe. One way or another he was in the water, hoping to be picked up.  

[Sundazed]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:13 PM, Sundazed said:

Did we just watch The Hunt for Red October - Battleship Version?

Just to add to my earlier post - in his interview with Ozzy Man, Krasinski does mention that this season was inspired by Clancy's Cold War novels, The Hunt for Red October, in particular.  So, the parallels were intentional!  Not sure if that's good or bad, though... 

[Artsda]

Instead of a medal Jack should get a free pass card so he can do what ever he wants and nobody gets to question him. lol

[dwmarch]

Clancy wrote that book, it's called Executive Orders.

[blackwing]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:35 PM, dwmarch said:

Well I wanted to like this season but there was too much going on that made too little sense for me. In the Tom Clancy novels you definitely know who the bad guys are.

Speaking of which, why the weird plot about Jack Ryan being a traitor? It did not make the story any better having everyone be openly hostile to him at all times while he was the only one who had any idea what was going on. That was just annoying. In the books, the good guys are all generally on the same side! Having said that, The Sum of All Fears has Ryan delivering bad intel which puts him at odds with the President in a crisis. But for an adaptation of that story, this one was clunky.

I agree, I was eagerly anticipating this season too.  But it's been so long since Season 2 that I pretty much had forgotten everything that happened beforehand.  I spent the first few episodes wondering 1) if we had seen Elizabeth Wright before and I just have no memory of her (apparently, no, she was new), and 2) the whole traitor bit.  Greer's on his side, but pretending not to be, Wright is against him, then on his side, then not, then on again.  So strange.

Maybe I was just very dense, but I never fully understood the motives of Goncharov or Petr Kovac.  Goncharov, as a young officer, gave the order to shut down the Sokol nuclear project and had all of the scientists killed.  Years later, as an old man, he is regretful, but is somehow a U.S. intelligence asset and is working to shut it down again?   How did he become a U.S. asset?   What is he hoping for?  Closure?  

Kovac was a young grunt who refused to obey the order at Sokol so Goncharov shot him.  But he was alive and fled to the Czech Republic, where he changed his name frm Lebedev and pretended he was Czech.  Somewhere along the line, he decided to work with traitorous potato faced new Russian defense minister who had the old one killed. Why?  If nobody knew who he was and that he was Russian, how did Potato find him?  What was his goal?  He hated Russia for shutting the Sokol program down and killing the scientists, so now he is actively working to re-activate the program and restore Russia to glory?  Or was his whole aim to work with Potato and get Russia and the U.S. to destroy each other?  What did he have against he U.S.?  Did Alena know he was Russian?

Why was the CIA Director Miller so hellbent on eliminating Jack, even though Jack had proven himself in two earlier seasons?  Why not give him the chance to talk?  Was Miller in on the conspiracy with the Russians too, or was he just really really bad at his job and refused to give his people a chance?

For some reason I thought that Cathy Mueller was going to return.  Nope.

This is the kind of show where I feel like I needed to read a detailed recap to understand exactly what was happening.

The best thing about this show were the beautiful location shots.  Great scenery.  I also am mesmerised by the opening credits.  Even though the theme tune isn't very catchy, I love the way the images morph from one to the other.  If there's an Emmy for opening credits, this show should be in consideration.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Having just watched this, I am glad we're not getting any Cathy Muller.  Didn't like her in the books, and I was so glad she wasn't in either this season or the last one.

[blackwing]

17 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Having just watched this, I am glad we're not getting any Cathy Muller.  Didn't like her in the books, and I was so glad she wasn't in either this season or the last one.

I didn't care for her in Season 1, but it was odd how they just completely dropped her for Season 2.  I'm still trying to figure out if this series has rebooted the universe or if it's supposed to be a prequel, which would mean Cathy would return to his life at some point.

I have residual like for the character because of the Anne Archer version from the movies.  She was great.

[Raja]

33 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I didn't care for her in Season 1, but it was odd how they just completely dropped her for Season 2.  I'm still trying to figure out if this series has rebooted the universe or if it's supposed to be a prequel, which would mean Cathy would return to his life at some point.

I have residual like for the character because of the Anne Archer version from the movies.  She was great.

I guess if they see Harrison Ford as the Jack Ryan then this would be a prequel just like Chris Pine was an origin story 

[Door County Cherry]

I think they realized they should have saved Cathy for the last season.  It's not even because they're giving Jack romantic relationships but because it's hard to balance Jack running around the world with Jack trying to develop a domestic relationship. 

As for whether she appears again, I don't know but here's spec I've read:

Spoiler

I believe Abbie Cornish is back in Season 4.  

 

[Lukeysboat]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:35 PM, dwmarch said:

.  A CWIS is a gun! They didn't even fire it! Why would it take four minutes to reload a weapon they haven't even used yet? It's weird because it seems like they got a lot of jargon correct (disclaimer: everything I know about the US military I learned from reading Tom Clancy novels) but their military advisor was asleep at the switch for that one.

It’s a CIWS (close-in weapons system), everybody. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:35 PM, dwmarch said:

am also disappointed that the show wasn't a little more brave with that nuke. In SoAF the nuke goes off in Denver. And it wasn't a super-secret Russian nuke built to look like an American one, it was American by way of Israel ("given" to the Israelis back in the day and lost during the October War). That book goes into impressive detail about how nukes have certain characteristics that cannot be faked. But here, the Russians just pretend it's American and almost start a war. I wish they had set it off right in the first episode instead of having an assassination in the stadium. If a nuke had just gone off and a city was wiped out the chaos in this season would make a lot more sense.

Even with the way it went off they totally glossed over that a nuclear bomb went off in Europe. Sure no one was killed but it still happened, it basically took out a mountain and destroyed a very expensive tunnel. And since it was a nuclear bomb I'm not sure you can just cover it up and say it was a surprise earthquake/avalanche.

My favourite funny dumb thing about this episode was when the president calls the captain of the Roosevelt and the captain is basically like "hang on a second sir, let me put you on speaker phone". No idea if that would actually happen, but it just seems dumb.

[KeithJ]

Ok, maybe I’m being dumb but where are they taking Luka at the end? They make it seem like they are taking him to his death but didn’t he just help prevent a war?