Pamela, a love story - General Discussion

[DanaK]

Netflix documentary on actress Pamela Anderson. Premieres January 31, 2023

[ivygirl]

I opened this thinking it might be about Pamela, the novel from the 1700’s. Boy was I wrong. 🤣

[DanaK]

Trailer 

 

[Bastet]

It's disgusting how there was this widespread notion that she shouldn't have a problem with the tape being stolen and made available to the world because, hey, she posed for Playboy, so what's the difference?  Um, first of all, she consented to one and not the other.  Also there's quite a difference between a nude photograph and a sex video.  I'm sure if you quiz people who've chosen to make the former public whether they'd be comfortable sharing the latter with the world, most would say no.  But Pamela Anderson was basically regarded as a blow-up doll, so no thought given to her feelings.  (And Tommy Lee just got applauded for having a big dick.)

Beyond the high-profile marriages and divorces, I don't know much about her other than she's a big advocate for animal rights, and I've never had any interest in finding out more.  But I'll probably watch this at some point, just to support her getting to have her own say, especially after someone felt free to all those years later make an entire series about the theft without her consent.  Stole from her again!  As someone said in that trailer, her body was treated like public property.  I don't need to have any particular interest in her personally to want to hear a woman address that on her own terms.

[MCMLXXVII]

It’s very good, I love hearing Pam’s story directly from her.
Her childhood was more traumatic than I thought even she’s spoken of some things before. The Tommy Lee relationship makes total sense now since her parents pretty much behaved the same way. 

I had no idea she dated Mario Van Peebles so that was new info. 😳Though I see where America’s sex symbol dating a Black man would have been kept quiet in 1990.

[Enero]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:43 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

It’s very good, I love hearing Pam’s story directly from her.
Her childhood was more traumatic than I thought even she’s spoken of some things before. The Tommy Lee relationship makes total sense now since her parents pretty much behaved the same way. 

I had no idea she dated Mario Van Peebles so that was new info. 😳Though I see where America’s sex symbol dating a Black man would have been kept quiet in 1990.

I’m not a fan of Pamela’s but I’m not an anti-fan either. I am indifferent to her but was curious about this documentary and watched. I agree. It was good. Pamela came off relatable and authentic. 

I knew nothing about her life, but was still shocked to learn about the abuse and trauma she suffered and witnessed as a child. I’m surprised that trauma isn’t more evident in her life and personality. It’s crazy how kids who grow up in an abusive household oftentimes find themselves in abusive relationships as adults. I’ve always read that Tommy Lee is very charismatic. So I guess that’s why she fell for him. But he was an abusive, self-centered asshole. 

I was amazed that Pamela left him after he attacked her while holding Dylan as sadly many women would’ve stayed. I loved what she said about men and how they will sometimes begin to hate a woman who’s not what they think she ought to be. Also loved the fact that she would not hesitate to let a man know that she was with him because she wants him not because she needs him and can/will walk out without hesitation. I mean dam. Lol.

She seemed very self-aware and made some interesting comments about men and relationships. I liked that she didn’t wear a stitch of makeup in this. She’s aging well IMO. Her boys seem well adjusted. I think she raised them in Canada so that likely helped. She’s still looking for true and healthy love, but sadly she divorced her 4th husband (who was shown at the start of the documentary) last year. She still loves Tommy but knows he’s toxic and won’t go there again. Maybe she’ll find the love she’s looking for one day. 
 

Quote

But Pamela Anderson was basically regarded as a blow-up doll, so no thought given to her feelings.

@Bastet and sadly this, I think, is what many guys whom she dated or married expected too. For her to be this blowup doll who didn’t have a mind of her own, was an airhead who had to be told when what and how, and was there to be their sexual fantasy. When they realized she was a real person with her own thoughts and feelings the relationships would become volatile leading to abuse and a breakup or quietly implode. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Enero

[DanaK]

14 hours ago, Enero said:

I’m not a fan of Pamela’s but I’m not an anti-fan either. I am indifferent to her but was curious about this documentary and watched. I agree. It was good. Pamela came off relatable and authentic. 

I knew nothing about her life, but was still shocked to learn about the abuse and trauma she suffered and witnessed as a child. I’m surprised that trauma isn’t more evident in her life and personality. It’s crazy how kids who grow up in an abusive household oftentimes find themselves in abusive relationships as adults. I’ve always read that Tommy Lee is very charismatic. So I guess that’s why she fell for him. But he was an abusive, self-centered asshole. 

I was amazed that Pamela left him after he attacked her while holding Dylan as sadly many women would’ve stayed. I loved what she said about men and how they will sometimes begin to hate a woman who’s not what they think she ought to be. Also loved the fact that she would not hesitate to let a man know that she was with him because she wants him not because she needs him and can/will walk out without hesitation. I mean dam. Lol.

She seemed very self-aware and made some interesting comments about men and relationships. I liked that she didn’t wear a stitch of makeup in this. She’s aging well IMO. Her boys seem well adjusted. I think she raised them in Canada so that likely helped. She’s still looking for true and healthy love, but sadly she divorced her 4th husband (who was shown at the start of the documentary) last year. She still loves Tommy but knows he’s toxic and won’t go there again. Maybe she’ll find the love she’s looking for one day. 
 

@Bastet and sadly this, I think, is what many guys whom she dated or married expected too. For her to be this blowup doll who didn’t have a mind of her own, was an airhead who had to be told when what and how, and was there to be their sexual fantasy. When they realized she was a real person with her own thoughts and feelings the relationships would become volatile leading to abuse and a breakup or quietly implode. 

Did she indicate she's gotten therapy? If not, she should consider it for the abuse and the bad relationships. 6 marriages (2 to the same man) to mostly bad men is not healthy

[MaggieG]

13 hours ago, Enero said:

I was amazed that Pamela left him after he attacked her while holding Dylan as sadly many women would’ve stayed. I loved what she said about men and how they will sometimes begin to hate a woman who’s not what they think she ought to be. Also loved the fact that she would not hesitate to let a man know that she was with him because she wants him not because she needs him and can/will walk out without hesitation. I mean dam. Lol.

She seemed very self-aware and made some interesting comments about men and relationships. I liked that she didn’t wear a stitch of makeup in this. She’s aging well IMO. Her boys seem well adjusted. I think she raised them in Canada so that likely helped. She’s still looking for true and healthy love, but sadly she divorced her 4th husband (who was shown at the start of the documentary) last year. She still loves Tommy but knows he’s toxic and won’t go there again. Maybe she’ll find the love she’s looking for one day. 

These were things that I found interesting as well. She left Tommy after that first time, even though he was begging for her to come back. I can't imagine how hard that must have been for her. Not only all the stress from the sex tape being released, two young kids and then her husband abusing her and going to jail.

I also liked how self aware she was. It seems like with time and experience she has realized and learned a lot. When she said that she has always struggled with relationships because she couldn't make it work with the father of her kids, I felt so bad for her. I do think she wanted desperately to work it out with Tommy but realized he wouldn't change. I may be wrong but I do think Tommy has mellowed out over the last few years. Her boys seem very sweet and it looks like they have a solid relationship. It was nice hearing their perspective on that time and how tough it must have been for them as kids with all of the attention on their parents and their sex tape.

When they showed her husband I thought "oh wow, she married a nice normal Canadian guy, maybe this one will stick" and then it said they got divorced. Oh well.

[Bastet]

I'm glad she got to do this, and I'm glad I watched it.  Like I said before, I knew nothing about her beyond the most basic headlines, and I wasn't yearning to learn any more, but I always thought it disgraceful how she was treated in the aftermath of the stolen tape, and found it disgusting someone dredged all that up 20 years later to, once again without her permission, make money off it, so I wanted to support her effort to address it all her in own words.

I wound up rather enjoying it.  She's the textbook example of a product of her environment, outright re-creating her parents' marriage, yet she has the strength to walk away the very moment the line is crossed into physical abuse.  That's rare in someone so conditioned by emotional abuse, to have such a bright line, especially when she loves the abuser deeply and he's apologetic.  I was glad to hear her say by going back over these things, she's realizing she's been idealizing their pre-violence relationship, but now sees there were red flags all along.  (Hello, he frakkin' stalked her after their first meeting.)

She said in a recent interview she hasn't been with a man in a year and it's been the best year of her life, so I sincerely hope she stays single because I think she's at a really exciting time of her life now that the kids are grown and gone and the Broadway show gave her some respectability back.  I suspect the book and this film will be well received, too.  Good for her putting herself out there on her own terms, after all the people who've made millions exploiting her.

I liked all the little moments during the end credits, especially her mom going upside down again on the video call and her asking "Do all old people do this?" juxtaposed with her son having to tell her she can just get prescription sunglasses rather than putting her reading glasses on over her sunglasses.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Bastet

[Sweet-tea]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:43 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

It’s very good, I love hearing Pam’s story directly from her.
Her childhood was more traumatic than I thought even she’s spoken of some things before. The Tommy Lee relationship makes total sense now since her parents pretty much behaved the same way. 

I had no idea she dated Mario Van Peebles so that was new info. 😳Though I see where America’s sex symbol dating a Black man would have been kept quiet in 1990.

I also enjoyed the documentary. I had no idea she was molested and raped as a child... and she didn't tell anyone. How horrible for her.

Given her childhood and her parents' volatile relationship, I understand why she's struggled. I'm glad she drew the line when Tommy Lee assaulted her. I wonder if she would've made the same decision if she hadn't been holding Dylan. 

I still can't believe a criminal was allowed to steal a tape from them and make millions off it with no recourse. I understand why she signed over the rights, but I wish she hadn't. Doing so gave the scumbags free rein to make tons of money off her. 

I never thought I'd say this because I'm certainly no Pamela Anderson (when when I was in my prime on my best day), but I can relate to her quest for love and her numerous failed relationships. I've done the same thing in my life. It sounds like she still carries a torch for Tommy Lee. 

It was nice to see her mother and her sons and the area in Canada where her parents live. Brave of her to do so much footage without makeup on. She seems down-to-earth.

I had heard she was angry about Hulu's Pam and Tommy, but I wonder if she would've felt differently if she'd watched it. I thought the portrayal of Pam was mostly positive and sympathetic. I understand why she didn't want to relive that extremely stressful period of life though. 

Watching the scenes of her first Playboy shoot I had the same impression I've held for a long: she was gorgeous with a fantastic figure and beautiful breasts. I don't think she needed implants! Also, her first cover was my favorite of her because she looked natural, fuller brows, no implants, darker-blonde hair, softer make-up, etc.

A former boyfriend who was a big fan of hers told me once, "Yes, she was already beautiful, but the larger breasts and other changes to her brows/hair gave her a more exotic look/brand." 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Barlowe]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:19 PM, MaggieG said:

These were things that I found interesting as well. She left Tommy after that first time, even though he was begging for her to come back. I can't imagine how hard that must have been for her. Not only all the stress from the sex tape being released, two young kids and then her husband abusing her and going to jail.

I also liked how self aware she was. It seems like with time and experience she has realized and learned a lot. When she said that she has always struggled with relationships because she couldn't make it work with the father of her kids, I felt so bad for her. I do think she wanted desperately to work it out with Tommy but realized he wouldn't change. I may be wrong but I do think Tommy has mellowed out over the last few years. Her boys seem very sweet and it looks like they have a solid relationship. It was nice hearing their perspective on that time and how tough it must have been for them as kids with all of the attention on their parents and their sex tape.

When they showed her husband I thought "oh wow, she married a nice normal Canadian guy, maybe this one will stick" and then it said they got divorced. Oh well.

I’m watching her HGTV show which features her renoing her Canadian property. It’s weird watching her and her ex husband knowing they’re headed for a divorce. But I also see some cracks and I’m only in episode 2.

He’s nice and normal but also they clash. She’s a free-ish spirit who literally says in the show she doesn’t know what things cost. The context being that she’s bankrolling the reno while he’s a contractor/manager on the team  and she’s the one making decisions but often to the detriment of the budget and acknowledging how much her changes and specifications actually cost or if the ideas can actually be executed . 

She’s mocked his truck for being too stereotypically masculine, said she doesn’t like he’s on the team now that he’s her husband because he makes decisions and changes that suit him and how much effort he wants to put in. We see him carelessly trample over her garden and heard the designer say she doesn’t think he’s ever said anything wasn’t coated in concern because he’s full of concern (negativity). She’s has basically called him a Debbie Downer who’s too realistic and an instigator..

An interesting part of one of the episodes was when she was mapping out the layout of her laundry room with her designer and project manager. She asked her project manager if she could move the placement of the sink and Initially he was openly hesitant presumably because of the extra expenses and labour involved. So she picked up on that and said to just keep it as is. Immediately after they left the designer and PM said to each other “so we’re moving the sink right?”

And the designer said she notices Pamela does things she doesn’t really want just to make things easier for other people and she was going to honour Pamela’s vision and ideal for her own house. I know they’re staff but I thought that was pretty sweet of both of them to just say we know her well enough to know she compromises too much and we’re going fulfill her dreams.

Also that she’s very adamant about having a hand in the process. I.e she planted all the plants in her main house garden, wanted to lay the brick footpath, learned how to see her own curtains

*Im on episode 4 of the show now and she’s really impractical at times and not the best communicator. There’s been multiple times where she doesn’t have a clear vision or know how to put her vision into practical terms  and so the design team will make a sample for her to look at based on a summary of what she’s said and she’ll look and go “No no no” and tell them it’s wrong but not know how to achieve the look she’s actually going for. And one of the times the team says to her that they want to hear all her dreams for one of the bigger design projects, she goes “they’re not little dreams, I’m a designer”. The guy never dismissed her by calling her dreams little but she immediately went into that defensive mode and remembers all the times men have dismissed her.

Just one more thing from the show I wanted to mention was not only did she marry the builder on the team, she befriended one of the painters and converted him into her personal assistant and talked about she had more in common with him (a love of fashion and art specifically) than her husband.

I just really think this show is a good companion to the documentary because you get to see the dynamic of her now-mellowed out parents, her relationship dynamics in action and an even more well rounded view of Pamela.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Barlowe

[Barlowe]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:16 AM, Sweet-tea said:

I also enjoyed the documentary. I had no idea she was molested and raped as a child... and she didn't tell anyone. How horrible for her.

Given her childhood and her parents' volatile relationship, I understand why she's struggled. I'm glad she drew the line when Tommy Lee assaulted her. I wonder if she would've made the same decision if she hadn't been holding Dylan. 

I still can't believe a criminal was allowed to steal a tape from them and make millions off it with no recourse. I understand why she signed over the rights, but I wish she hadn't. Doing so gave the scumbags free rein to make tons of money off her. 

I never thought I'd say this because I'm certainly no Pamela Anderson (when when I was in my prime on my best day), but I can relate to her quest for love and her numerous failed relationships. I've done the same thing in my life. It sounds like she still carries a torch for Tommy Lee. 

It was nice to see her mother and her sons and the area in Canada where her parents live. Brave of her to do so much footage without makeup on. She seems down-to-earth.

I had heard she was angry about Hulu's Pam and Tommy, but I wonder if she would've felt differently if she'd watched it. I thought the portrayal of Pam was mostly positive and sympathetic. I understand why she didn't want to relive that extremely stressful period of life though. 

Watching the scenes of her first Playboy shoot I had the same impression I've held for a long: she was gorgeous with a fantastic figure and beautiful breasts. I don't think she needed implants! Also, her first cover was my favorite of her because she looked natural, fuller brows, no implants, darker-blonde hair, softer make-up, etc.

A former boyfriend who was a big fan of hers told me once, "Yes, she was already beautiful, but the larger breasts and other changes to her brows/hair gave her a more exotic look/brand." 

It’s horrific how much abuse and sexual violence she’s experienced. Apparently she experienced another rape only a few years after the first and I also read that there was a tape with Brett Michaels that was almost released (or leaked and it was before she was with Tommy). His lawyer at the time said there were two copies in existence and Brett still had his and that Brett had refused the offer to sell his rights.

I’d forgotten since the documentary didn’t mention it that she’d battled Hepatitis C for 16 years before being cured. And when I was looking it up, I learned Tommy was the carrier who passed the virus to her because they shared a tattoo needle and he didn’t disclose that he was a carrier. I’m glad she’s cured now but he really did mess with her while they were together in so many ways.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Barlowe

[chediavolo]

Yeah, still not a fan, though this was interesting. 
I wish she would she had  put some clothes on when she was talking to her grown son towards the end of the doc.  You could clearly see her breasts but then again, she’s comfortable with that. 
I live the fact that she is an animal advocate. 
The abuse she suffered when young & having received no therapy was surely a factor in the direction her life went in.  
I have some sympathy for her in some ways but then again She used & altered her body for fame and fortune. To willingly be seen by men as a sex object & as prime source of fantasies. Until women stop doing this shit we will never be seen as equal to men. 

[Sweet-tea]

I thought I remembered she was with Brett Michaels. I wonder why they didn’t mention him. 

They also left out the part about Kid Rock getting furious over her being in Borat, because the movie referenced the sex tape with Tommy Lee. At the VMAs in 2006 or 07, Kid assaulted Tommy Lee while Alicia Keys was performing. I read he was charged with assault. Apparently Tommy Lee couldn’t even get a punch in. Not sure if the case was settled. But in an interview once after being asked what ended the relationship with Kid Rock, Pamela named the movie. 

They kind of glossed over the details about Tommy Lee assaulting her. It looked edited to me after his “eyes when black.” Perhaps she didn’t want to emphasize it due to her sons. I bet that’s why the hepatitis stuff wasn’t in there too. 

Another thing they left out: she was the “Tool Time Girl’ on Home Improvement before Baywatch. 

I’m glad she got the Chicago gig. That show has become known for stunt casting the Roxie Hart role. A ton of actresses or even minor celebs have played Roxie. The story below most of the ones I’ve heard of. 

I think Pamela has the charisma and stage presence to pull it off, but I thought her singing was just passable.

Surprised to read about her money issues. I wonder what her future is now in terms of a career. It must be tough for someone her age, because she never really established herself as an actress. Even for those who have, it’s hard for them in their 50s. 

 

https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/slideshow/2543534/women-who-played-roxie-hart-chicago-broadway/14/

Edited February 5, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[SunnyBeBe]

I just watched this documentary, keeping an open mind, but also having a lot of other stuff in the back of my mind.  She addresses the Pam and Tommy series, which I watched and thought she was treated positively.  She apparently didn’t realize that and her son didn’t tell her.  She talked about her Playboy history, but OMG….no mention of anything negative, except they made money on her.  Nothing about negative treatment!  That was shocking, in light of the docu series Secrets of Playboy on A& E.  I hope she was spared.  I wish she had commented on it.  Maybe this was filmed before it aired…..?
 

Obviously, Pam endured a lot from childhood and her early marriage.  I do applaud her getting herself and her kids out of a violent situation.  Many don’t.  She appears pretty well adjusted, considering……however, obviously there is something very wrong.  I suspect it’s more complicated than a lady who loves to fall in love and get married.  It seems she still doesn’t recognize early warning signs like jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, etc. , though she pays it lip service.  The docu glossed over the Kid Rick thing pretty quickly.  That’s a story I did want to know more about.  There were many rumors of what actually happened at the time.  
 

I was on vacation in Cancun when she and Timmy got married. I didn’t see them on the beach though!  Lol

Overall, it was pretty good, imo, with the exception of a few things I would like to have seen more about.  

[Bastet]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:16 AM, Sweet-tea said:

I had heard she was angry about Hulu's Pam and Tommy, but I wonder if she would've felt differently if she'd watched it. I thought the portrayal of Pam was mostly positive and sympathetic. I understand why she didn't want to relive that extremely stressful period of life though. 

It doesn't matter if she was portrayed sympathetically in the series.  The series was made without her consent about the private tape that was stolen and later released to the world without her consent.  A crime that caused her tremendous emotional trauma (upon the tape's release, the sexist media coverage that ensued, the endless dehumanizing depositions that led them to drop their lawsuit because the stress was so great they feared she'd suffer another miscarriage, and the hit to her career), that she'd, as she said, blocked out of her life, because “I had to, in order to survive, really" was now once again a money-making venture for other people against her will.  Even if they portrayed her sympathetically, her feelings didn't matter one iota more to the producers of that series than they did to the distributors of the stolen tape.

[chediavolo]

11 minutes ago, Bastet said:

It doesn't matter if she was portrayed sympathetically in the series.  The series was made without her consent about the private tape that was stolen and later released to the world without her consent.  A crime that caused her tremendous emotional trauma (upon the tape's release, the sexist media coverage that ensued, the endless dehumanizing depositions that led them to drop their lawsuit because the stress was so great they feared she'd suffer another miscarriage, and the hit to her career), that she'd, as she said, blocked out of her life, because “I had to, in order to survive, really" was now once again a money-making venture for other people against her will.  Even if they portrayed her sympathetically, her feelings didn't matter one iota more to the producers of that series than they did to the distributors of the stolen tape.

Well, they didn’t really need her consent obviously or it would’ve been a big deal by now. Plenty of movies are made without peoples consent, especially when you are a public figure.. it’s not like most of the movie wasn’t realistic. She put herself out here in that revolting  world of playboy and then acting the sex goddess until her looks finally faded, even with all plastic surgery & make, up still not dressing her age in her 50s. I’m so tired of these women willingly posing nude for money, vanity, fame , whatever.  living the life and then crying about it . Once again, I guess you reap what you sow. As I said before her one, big redeeming quality to me is that she is an animal activist. 

[Bastet]

28 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

Well, they didn’t really need her consent obviously or it would’ve been a big deal by now. Plenty of movies are made without peoples consent, especially when you are a public figure.. it’s not like most of the movie wasn’t realistic. She put herself out here in that revolting  world of playboy and then acting the sex goddess until her looks finally faded, even with all plastic surgery & make, up still not dressing her age in her 50s. I’m so tired of these women willingly posing nude for money, vanity, fame , whatever.  living the life and then crying about it . Once again, I guess you reap what you sow.

She's not "crying about" what she put out there, she's objecting to the releases of the things she didn't, and how the things she did were improperly conflated with that, suggesting - or even outright stating, in many cases - that because she did A she had no right to be upset about B.  It's bullshit.  One doesn't "reap" having a private video stolen and published because she "sowed" appearing in Playboy; posing nude for a professional photo shoot and having one's sexual activity that was privately recorded and locked up in a safe stolen and published are unrelated.

And dredging all that up to make a TV series about it over her objections all these years later is gross.  No, they don't legally need her consent to dramatize the events; even the first group of assholes got away with publishing her actual likeness obtained by theft.  Of course she's not the first public figure this has happened to.  None of that makes it any less exploitative. 

I don't need to approve of her actual choices to be appalled by that.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Bastet

[Bastet]

This Vox article was just posted in another thread; it's a nice look at how it's bullshit for Pam and Tommy to try and proclaim itself an advocate for Anderson.

(It also has some good context, but doesn't harp on, as it's inevitable, what this film glosses over.)

Edited February 5, 2023 by Bastet

[Future Cat Lady]

15 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

Well, they didn’t really need her consent obviously or it would’ve been a big deal by now. Plenty of movies are made without peoples consent, especially when you are a public figure.. it’s not like most of the movie wasn’t realistic. She put herself out here in that revolting  world of playboy and then acting the sex goddess until her looks finally faded, even with all plastic surgery & make, up still not dressing her age in her 50s. I’m so tired of these women willingly posing nude for money, vanity, fame , whatever.  living the life and then crying about it . Once again, I guess you reap what you sow. As I said before her one, big redeeming quality to me is that she is an animal activist. 

Pamela has every fucking right to be upset about the miniseries. It brings back into the media a very difficult time in her life, and I'm pretty sure it made a lot people search for the tape on the internet. A whole new generation has now seen it.

That tape  was in a safe in her home and it was stolen. It doesn't matter if she's a nun or a playmate. Her privacy was violated and she never consented for it to be made public. It's a crime.

I watch the documentary out of curiosity. I thought  it was interesting and I found her really sweet.

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

She's not "crying about" what she put out there, she's objecting to the releases of the things she didn't, and how the things she did were improperly conflated with that, suggesting - or even outright stating, in many cases - that because she did A she had no right to be upset about B.  It's bullshit.  One doesn't "reap" having a private video stolen and published because she "sowed" appearing in Playboy; posing nude for a professional photo shoot and having one's sexual activity that was privately recorded and locked up in a safe stolen and published are unrelated.

And dredging all that up to make a TV series about it over her objections all these years later is gross.  No, they don't legally need her consent to dramatize the events; even the first group of assholes got away with publishing her actual likeness obtained by theft.  Of course she's not the first public figure this has happened to.  None of that makes it any less exploitative. 

I don't need to approve of her actual choices to be appalled by that.

Whatever. Don’t really care. I only watched out of curiosity. 

[pasdetrois]

I refused to watch the Pam and Tommy series because it was a very thinly disguised excuse to create a mock-up Pamela (Lily James) and show her having hardcore sex with Tommy. She was treated like a mindless bimbo. Creepy Seth Rogen and Dave Franco victimized Pam all over again.

That said, Pamela often cannot get out of her own way. Even as she understandably laments how she has been treated by the entertainment industry, she still slides into the sex kitten persona. All the giggling during her interviews, references to certain events or images followed by "Oh, did I say that?", pretending she doesn't know what's on some of the tapes she's kept (they are all labeled) and then acting shocked, the semi-transparent clothing and the bubble bath scene. There is a strong thread of manipulation throughout the documentary and mixed messages.

The "documentary" failed to mention Brett and their sex tape, which was leaked publicly, (perhaps Brett threatened litigation).  Very recently she had a disturbed relationship with Jon Peters, which appeared to be transactional. The documentary didn't mention that Rick Solomon was Paris Hilton's sex videotape partner. It also doesn't mention that Pam went back to Tommy after the abuse. I remember reading her discuss it in Jane.

I hope Pamela got a lot of money for her Chicago run. That took guts and a lot of physical hard work for someone her age.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by pasdetrois

[chediavolo]

1 minute ago, pasdetrois said:

I refused to watch the Pam and Tommy series because it was a very thinly disguised excuse to create a mock-up Pamela (Lily James) and show her having hardcore sex with Tommy. She was treated like a mindless bimbo. Creepy Seth Rogen and Dave Franco victimized Pam all over again.

That said, Pamela often cannot get out of her own way. Even as she understandably laments how she has been treated by the entertainment industry, she still slides into the sex kitten persona. All the giggling during her interviews, references to certain events or images followed by "Oh, did I say that?", pretending she doesn't know what's on some of the tapes she's kept (they are all labeled) and then acting shocked, the semi-transparent clothing and the bubble bath scene. There is a strong thread of manipulation throughout the documentary and mixed messages.

In addition to failing to mention Brett (perhaps Brett threatened litigation) and her weird relationship with Jon Peters, the documentary didn't mention that Rick Solomon was Paris Hilton's sex videotape partner. It also doesn't mention that Pam went back to Tommy after the abuse. I remember reading her discuss it in Jane.

 

I also watched Pam & Tommy out of curiosity. I don’t have enough feelings about either of them to care if it was exploitative or not.

I do agree with you 100% about how she can’t get out of her own way. The wearing of  see-through garment while talking with her son makes me cringe and wonder just what the hell she is thinking. I can’t imagine how stressful it was for both of those boys growing up , I can’t imagine how awful the  playground talk was, the naked photos, all the different boyfriends & stepdads over the years. Pam & Tommy did make handsome sons though. 

1 hour ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Pamela has every fucking right to be upset about the miniseries. It brings back into the media a very difficult time in her life, and I'm pretty sure it made a lot people search for the tape on the internet. A whole new generation has now seen it.

That tape  was in a safe in her home and it was stolen. It doesn't matter if she's a nun or a playmate. Her privacy was violated and she never consented for it to be made public. It's a crime.

I watch the documentary out of curiosity. I thought  it was interesting and I found her really sweet.

She can be upset all she wants about the mini series. I’m just saying they didn’t need her permission. Do I think it was beyond fucked up  that someone stole their private tape and put it out for the world to see?  yes. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone notice the way Pam pronounces the name Tommy?  It sounds like she is saying “ tow me.”   It’s closer to Tony than Tommy.  Is that a  Canadian thing?  

[bluegirl147]

17 hours ago, Bastet said:

One doesn't "reap" having a private video stolen and published because she "sowed" appearing in Playboy; posing nude for a professional photo shoot and having one's sexual activity that was privately recorded and locked up in a safe stolen and published are unrelated.

That was the defense's whole argument.  That Pamela had taken her clothes off for money so why would or should she expect any privacy.  It was beyond gross.  Almost 30 years later there are still people who think that.  I mentioned this on another thread at some point.  When Erin Andrews was spied on in a hotel room Elisabeth Hasselbeck on the View made a snarky remark saying if the guy had just waited till she was on DWTS he could have got to see her scantily clad without the risk of jail.  It was so offensive and she had to apologize the next day.  

17 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Pamela has every fucking right to be upset about the miniseries. It brings back into the media a very difficult time in her life, and I'm pretty sure it made a lot people search for the tape on the internet. A whole new generation has now seen it.

Yep people are still making money off her. And she was 100% right that the whole sex tape thing was much worse for her than it was Tommy.  He was a rock star.  This just added to his fame.  But the tape made Pamela infamous.  How many people when they hear her name think sex tape?

17 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I watch the documentary out of curiosity. I thought  it was interesting and I found her really sweet.

I've always thought she seemed like a genuinely nice person.  Horrible taste in men most likely because of what  happened to her when she was young.  

I have her book from the library and I can't wait to read it.

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/5/2023 at 4:24 PM, pasdetrois said:

The "documentary" failed to mention Brett and their sex tape, which was leaked publicly, (perhaps Brett threatened litigation).  Very recently she had a disturbed relationship with Jon Peters, which appeared to be transactional. The documentary didn't mention that Rick Solomon was Paris Hilton's sex videotape partner. It also doesn't mention that Pam went back to Tommy after the abuse. I remember reading her discuss it in Jane.

Yeah I read that she and Jon Peters were married, although later they claimed the marriage wasn't legal. Interesting that the doc skipped over this, the relationship with Brett and didn't really delve into her feelings about how she was treated about Playboy. I know she didn't participate in the Secrets of Playboy special. I think she has always been loyal to Hugh Hefner. 

I remember reading about the Brett Michaels tape but didn't realize it was leaked. Did they sue? 

I do think it's true that Tommy Lee was labeled a stud from the tape, while Pamela got trashed. I remember hearing friends talk about it, even women friends. She wasn't treated nearly as favorably as Tommy Lee was, which isn't right. I also saw a clip of him being interviewed before Pam and Tommy came out, and he seemed fine with it. 

Watching this documentary and seeing her sons, I wondered how much taunting and humiliating they've had to endure because of that tape. It must have been horrible for them. 

I'm on the waiting list at my library for her book. Perhaps it goes into the things the Netflix special either missed or edited out. 

I didn’t realize until now that Tommy Lee was married to Heather Locklear twice as long as he was married to Pam. His relationship with Heather didn’t get nearly as much publicity. And his current wife is only 36 while he’s 60. 

Quote

That said, Pamela often cannot get out of her own way. Even as she understandably laments how she has been treated by the entertainment industry, she still slides into the sex kitten persona. All the giggling during her interviews, references to certain events or images followed by "Oh, did I say that?", pretending she doesn't know what's on some of the tapes she's kept (they are all labeled) and then acting shocked, the semi-transparent clothing and the bubble bath scene. There is a strong thread of manipulation throughout the documentary and mixed messages.

Totally agree with you on all of this. Good points. I wonder if she has a bit of an identity crisis now that her sex kitten days are behind her? Maybe she doesn't know who she is without all that, so that is why she reverts back to the behavior sometimes. 

 

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone notice the way Pam pronounces the name Tommy?  It sounds like she is saying “ tow me.”   It’s closer to Tony than Tommy.  Is that a  Canadian thing?  

I didn't notice. I was waiting for the "a-boot" for "about" which usually gives away Canadians for me, but I didn't hear it from her. Her accent sounds American to me. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Shelbie]

It is definitely not how Canadians pronounce Tommy. We pronounce it like Americans do. 

[chediavolo]

2 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

Yeah I read that she and Jon Peters were married, although later they claimed the marriage wasn't legal. Interesting that the doc skipped over this, the relationship with Brett and didn't really delve into her feelings about how she was treated about Playboy. I know she didn't participate in the Secrets of Playboy special. I think she has always been loyal to Hugh Hefner. 

I remember reading about the Brett Michaels tape but didn't realize it was leaked. Did they sue? 

I do think it's true that Tommy Lee was labeled a stud from the tape, while Pamela got trashed. I remember hearing friends talk about it, even women friends. She wasn't treated nearly as favorably as Tommy Lee was, which isn't right. I also saw a clip of him being interviewed before Pam and Tommy came out, and he seemed fine with it. 

Watching this documentary and seeing her sons, I wondered how much taunting and humiliating they've had to endure because of that tape. It must have been horrible for them. 

I'm on the waiting list at my library for her book. Perhaps it goes into the things the Netflix special either missed or edited out. 

I didn’t realize until now that Tommy Lee was married to Heather Locklear twice as long as he was married to Pam. His relationship with Heather didn’t get nearly as much publicity. And his current wife is only 36 while he’s 60. 

Totally agree with you on all of this. Good points. I wonder if she has a bit of an identity crisis now that her sex kitten days are behind her? Maybe she doesn't know who she is without all that, so that is why she reverts back to the behavior sometimes. 

 

I didn't notice. I was waiting for the "a-boot" for "about" which usually gives away Canadians for me, but I didn't hear it from her. Her accent sounds American to me. 

Another sex tape was leaked?🤔Jesus, she doesn’t learn does she? Stop filming yourself Pam. Those poor kids. Their young lives had to be hell. 

[Sweet-tea]

She was with Bret Michaels before Tommy, so I guess she likes doing sex tapes. Unfortunate for her that they get stolen or leaked. I never heard who leaked the BM tape. In this story Bret seems ticked at Pam.

https://www.mtv.com/news/mg8vvi/bret-michaels-talks-about-fight-to-stop-pamela-lee-sex-tape

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Another sex tape was leaked?🤔Jesus, she doesn’t learn does she? Stop filming yourself Pam. Those poor kids. Their young lives had to be hell. 

It's not Pam's fault tapes were leaked.  I can't speak to the Bret Michaels tape because I don't really know anything about it.  But the tape with Tommy was locked in a safe.  It was stolen.  Do I think Pam has made some bad choices?  Yes absolutely.  But she is not responsible for someone stealing that tape.  And as far as her sons go I'm sure it wasn't easy having a mother who was famous in the way that Pamela was but they seem to have grown into very nice young men who have a close relationship with their mother.  

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

And as far as her sons go I'm sure it wasn't easy having a mother who was famous in the way that Pamela was but they seem to have grown into very nice young men who have a close relationship with their mother.  

We saw very little of them, and of course what we did see was self selected, but they weren't what I'd have expected from the guys who had, as one of them said, two of the most insane people on Earth as parents.

The argument that escalated into violence started because poor little insecure, jealous Tommy was upset he was now third in Pamela's life instead of first, and she told him it wasn't about him anymore, they have kids, and he needs to grow the hell up.  So I'm sure there was more stability in Pam's house than Tommy's when they were growing up, but that's not saying much.

I did a cursory search on them, to see if there were reports of any wild and crazy antics, and didn't find any other than Tommy accusing Brandon of an unprovoked assault that others said was self defense, stemming from a drunken Tommy getting pissed about Pamela talking about his abuse in an interview, Brandon defending Pamela, and things going to hell from there.  Based on history, the latter seems the more likely scenario.

Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised they weren't more.  I saw Pamela quoted from her book as saying they're "miracles, given their gene pool".

[pasdetrois]

Brandon was in a Hollywood reality show, mostly featuring reality has-beens, whose name I forget. He definitely showed some immature behavior regarding his supposed girlfriend in the episodes.

[Soapy Goddess]

18 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Do I think Pam has made some bad choices?  Yes absolutely.  But she is not responsible for someone stealing that tape. 

She may not be responsible for someone stealing her tape(s), but you'd think she'd get smart about it and either stop making them or put them in safety deposit box. 

And really, who the hell wants to watch themselves in 37 different positions anyway? 🙄

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

She may not be responsible for someone stealing her tape(s), but you'd think she'd get smart about it and either stop making them or put them in safety deposit box. 

And really, who the hell wants to watch themselves in 37 different positions anyway? 🙄

It’s surprising how many are just aghast that a woman who posed nude for men’s (& boys) entertainment, defends the odorous turd Hefner, made a living out of acting the bimbo, & still can’t dress appropriately in front of her own children is thought of and treated the way she is by most of the public. Women will never be equal to men if we keep up this behavior. 

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, chediavolo said:

It’s surprising how many are just aghast that a woman who posed nude for men’s (& boys) entertainment, defends the odorous turd Hefner, made a living out of acting the bimbo, & still can’t dress appropriately in front of her own children is thought of and treated the way she is by most of the public. Women will never be equal to men if we keep up this behavior. 

So she should be shunned?  It's not up to me to judge her.  And where is the criticism for Tommy Lee and Brett Michaels?  She wasn't alone on those tapes.

[chediavolo]

6 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

So she should be shunned?  It's not up to me to judge her.  And where is the criticism for Tommy Lee and Brett Michaels?  She wasn't alone on those tapes.

Not what I said at all. I guess it’s complicated. Women have to rise above men because they are just pigs basically most of them. So that’s why they don’t get the criticism that they deserve. 
she chose the path she is on and now she has to live with it. I don’t understand all the controversy. pose nude, hang out at the playboy mansion,  dress like a bimbo, act like a bimbo even if you are not one,  and how are you supposed to be treated?

[Sweet-tea]

Well a lot of people on Quora apparently agree with you and are posting awful comments about her. 

I have a soft spot for Pam. I don’t agree with some of her choices, but I understand them given her background. She’s lived most of her life by acting on instinct instead of thinking things through and considering the consequences. She comments on this in the documentary, laughing about it. 

When you fly by the seat of your pants, things don’t always go well.

[DanaDane707]

Just wanted to add that I never knew she had freckles and I think they are adorable.

[chediavolo]

Is anyone reading her book? Comments?