Alison DiLaurentis: Queen Bee

[Cranberry]

Also not really dead.

[beetlesoda]

Soooo what are we thinking? Still think she's A because I don't think the show has the balls or creativity to not make her A. But then again she's still sketchy as hell and I feel the show is making her still super sketchy enough for her to not be A. I'll be watching Alison very closely this season but with a opened mind I'm not gonna say everything she does is because she's A, I want to see if she actually grown

[lorikauai]

I feel like the show is trying to get us to see her as a victim which makes me very suspicious. All of the information about Ali being in danger seems to come from Ali herself.

[Spencer Hastings]

I cringe when she's on my screen because I know she's up to no good.  She's so shady.  They're trying to make her seem like the victim but she's the reason the girls are even in this mess.  I don't trust anyone who plays dead while she watches her friends being tortured from afar. Nope.

[M1977G]

Ali is indeed one shady lady.  I cringed last episode with all her lip wobbling and tears over having to go to the doctor, mostly because I felt like she's upset that her lies will be exposed.  But guess what, Ali?  You're a terrible liar!  How does she even think a doctor or the police are going to believe her crappy tales?!  The lies are bad and they are delivered pitifully.  You got your old scar on your inner thigh a few weeks ago, cutting it on a rock with metal on it while jumping blindfolded out of a moving car?  Girl, please.  But why are the police and doc humoring her and not calling her on her crap and asking for the truth?  I think Ali is genuinely scared of someone, but I'm hoping it's because she got herself in over her head with the wrong person with her twisted teenage manipulations.  I'll be pissed if she comes out of all this squeaky clean and looking like some scared little misguided angel.  This is one character I don't really want to see easily redeemed, because I really don't like her.  She lies, blackmails, bullies her friends, tries to steal boyfriends--and that was all before she faked her death for two years and watched her friends go through hell for her. And now she's being cruel to Hanna and still digging on her weight, because Ali is inherently cruel and/or feels threatened by a slimmer Hanna. Can't wait for Mona to bitch slap her.  Girl has it coming!

Edited July 8, 2014 by M1977G

[feverfew]

 I'll be pissed if she comes out of all this squeaky clean and looking like some scared little misguided angel.  This is one character I don't really want to see easily redeemed, because I really don't like her.  

I agree. I just ... can't with this *new and improved* Alison. If this was real life, sure, I would hope that people can change that much, but this is Rosewood! Hyper-ninja-reality! And all the flashbacks showed a psychopath in the making. Also - I'm just not that invested in either character or actress, so if Ali's becoming the fifth little liar, I just see less screentime for the rest of the girls.

[superman1204]

While I am not a huge fan of Alison's new personality, I am reserving my judgment until after I see where they take the character.  The way I see it, the character can develop in one of three ways, two of which don't suck.

 

1. Alison could turn out to be completely faking her apologetic personality and really be a lying sociopath.  While it would lead to a darker ending for the show, as long as its handled properly, Alison's character development and the show's ending should be satisfying.
2. Alison is completely genuine with her new personality.  This is the one resolution I really don't want to see.  The show has a history of dramatically changing character's personality to fit the storyline the writers wanted to tell.  While I can over look it for minor characters, I would really hate if they did this with Alison, since they seem to be making her into the fifth Lair.
3. Alison is genuine in her attempt at fresh start in Rosewood, but her old habits of lying, manipulating, and being a borderline sociopath still exist.  I personally think this would be the most interesting option, since it would allow Alison to have real emotion connections with the other girls, but at the same time not be a massive retcon of her character.  Additionally it could be used to create some interesting conflicts within the group.  For example, Alison could be the character who is willing to go the farthest to stop A, basically willing to do anything that will protect her and the other Lairs, without regard for anyone else.  Such a story arc would let us see the girl actually fight back against A, and instead of having the girls question Alison, like they do now, they would be questioning whether they want to be part of Alison's group, which we have seen hints of, but has never really be explored.

Edited July 9, 2014 by superman1204

[M1977G]

I found it very satisfying to see the writers let Ali's inner bitch out on the 100th episode.  I was getting a little nauseous during her "I'm sorry and was mean to others to feel better about myself" spiel earlier in the episode.  Her threats to and about loser Mona and her loser army sure rolled off her tongue easily, making me think (hope!) the writers are not going for a facile redemption of Ali.  I still don't trust her handling of Emily, and think Ali is twisted enough to be playing with Emily's feelings either for the rush of being a master manipulator, or because she has some agenda and feels this is the best way to get Emily on her side.  Or maybe Ali's meanness in the past stemmed from her inner turmoil of staying in the closet...hello, American Beauty.

[mercfan3]

I'm hoping for a redemption of Ali. But a proper one. One where she actually has to put effort into it. One where she has setbacks..and one where she is still Ali..The character wouldn't be Ali without her edge, and that needs to stay. 

[Marney0612]

Do we knew anything about Ali's dad? I don't remember any backstory, but so far this season, he seems to be a good guy. That can't be right, can it?

[Crim]

superman, that was a good sum-up. I also agree with you in that I do not want Ali's current personality to be genuine. Personally, I would be happiest with option 1 where Ali is faking because a fresh start is her only option at this point - she also has to play traumatized kidnapped victim, after all. Like I said in the S5E05 ep topic, I wonder if there is more to her return to Rosewood than we know, since I don't believe Shana's death would have made Ali feel any safer (she ran away because someone tried to kill her, and her mother was willing to cover it up, which Shana could not have been part of, as she was not living in Rosewood and was definitely not in love with Jenna yet.)

 

Watching Ezria and Ali/Emily being the couples that get the sex scene to Every Breath You Take really brought home the fact that Ali is also someone who watched the Liars be tortured without giving them any information. Now that we know she really met the Liars in those scenes where she spouted off cryptic stuff, there is no going around the fact that she could have said something and didn't. (Well, the show wouldn't have been what it was if she had, but that's true of Ezra too - loathsome as he is for countless other reasons.)

 

Sasha is playing the Hell out of all her scenes. For example, I like how in her fight scene with Mona, when she reigned herself in and added that "We don't have to do this.", there was no regret for what she had said and done, just a conscious return to the persona she (genuinely or not) chose. And I liked how she played the scene when she paused before lying to the Liars about just staring at Mona after being slapped: it looked like the lie was easy, she just paused to decide. Despite all the teary eyes and trembling lips, Sasha still plays the old Ali in key moments, IMO.

 

As to her being New Ali even when she was alone, for example in front of the mirror, I have to wonder if that's method acting. I don't mean in scenes like when she was in bed and Jason stared at her from the doorway, just the "You can do this." stuff. Ali strikes me as someone who practiced a lot of expressions, and this extreme trembling victim is not just a new one, but also one she has to keep up because of the lie at the police station. If that message was even real. The lie was so bad that I'm inclined to believe it was spur of the moment, but did Ali ever actually intend to tell the whole truth?

[NoWhammies]

I think Ali had to come home. After all, she was running out of money and too much evidence was emerging that she was, indeed, still alive. I think Ali is doing the same thing she always has - playing everyone. This redemption arc is a red herring.

[lorikauai]

I like bad Ali and I don't believe in her redemption for a second. The writers keep pushing this idea that Ali has changed because of how much she's been through over the last two years, but we don't really know what she's been through. Apparently she had an army of helpers to keep her hidden - Noel, Cece, Shana to name a few - but she couldn't be bothered to tell her supposed best friends she was alive. We've seen her in a red coat and a black hoodie and we know she was comfortable torturing her friends with their secrets before she disappeared and at the very least she just stood by and watched them be tortured while she was gone. So Ali comes back and says she was a victim all along and we're supposed to just accept that? She doesn't know who tried to kill her because she has wronged so many people. She left town to get the heat off her and came back because she ran out of cash. Call me crazy but it doesn't feel like an organic transformation to me, just Ali trying to manipulate the situation to work in her favor.

[Crim]

I think Ali had to come home. After all, she was running out of money and too much evidence was emerging that she was, indeed, still alive. I think Ali is doing the same thing she always has - playing everyone. This redemption arc is a red herring.

Yes, showing us Ali running out of money was definitely the single most clear hint we got all season that she'd return. The reason why I find the timing of her return suspicious is that she wasn't out of money yet, and she could have taken a way out, but she gave it to CeCe. Coming back to Rosewood at the time she did was a choice, even if a pragmatic one.

 

In regards to the Liars, I don't think Ali is playing the old game, not exactly. She wants to be part of the group and control it, but I don't think she wants to break it down by separating Emily or anyone else. There is strength in numbers and she needs that strength more than she needs mind games right now. That's why I don't think Ali faking her change makes her "bad" or guarantees a dark ending. This is not a show where the main characters or their love interests are "good guys", so why would she have to be an exception?

[Sugarsprinkles]

Can someone help me make sense of something? My apologies if it's been discussed or silly but I didn't see it on the forum. Ok when Ali "died" page five of her autopsy report was missing. I think they said Jenna and Garret took it? Why was that again? I believe it said Ali was pregnant at her time of death which they touched on when Ali and CeCe were on vacay. For a while I think they thought board shorts was they baby daddy but we know now board shorts is Ezra and they apparently never had sex.

So my question is what happened to the pregnancy/baby? Who was the baby daddy? Was it a false alarm? I don't remember the outcome. I need a copy of Ezra's "research" so I can keep up with all of these stories.

[superman1204]

Can someone help me make sense of something? My apologies if it's been discussed or silly but I didn't see it on the forum. Ok when Ali "died" page five of her autopsy report was missing. I think they said Jenna and Garret took it? Why was that again? I believe it said Ali was pregnant at her time of death which they touched on when Ali and CeCe were on vacay. For a while I think they thought board shorts was they baby daddy but we know now board shorts is Ezra and they apparently never had sex.

So my question is what happened to the pregnancy/baby? Who was the baby daddy? Was it a false alarm? I don't remember the outcome. I need a copy of Ezra's "research" so I can keep up with all of these stories.

If I am remembering correctly page five contained the trace evidence from the body (hair, clothing fibers, ect) so I don't think it had anything to do with the pregnancy.  Jenna and Garrett talked about how page five was the only thing still linking them to that night.  Most likely, Garrett had covered up anything relating to the NAT videos and Jenna avoid telling the police anything about how she hated the Lairs.  This only left trace evidence from the fight Ali had with Jenna the night she disappeared.  By getting rid of page five, there was no way to link them to that night.  Which doesn't make a ton of sense since they try to kill Ali, so either the writers were just trying to make a red herring disappear or it will later be revealed Jenna or Garrett were involved with something else that happened that night (maybe how Bethany Young ended up buried in Ali's place).

 

As for the pregnancy scare that was revealed to be a false alarm, at least according to Mona.  She tells Spencer she read it in Ali's diaries, when Mona visited Spencer in Radley.  Also since Ali is back and never mentioned having a child (or an abortion) its probably safe to assume Mona was telling the truth.

[Cranberry]

Season 15 spoiler: Alison's abandoned daughter is revealed as A, after at least three seasons of her terrorizing the girls. She forces Hanna to shave off all her hair! She makes Spencer doubt her nana's loyalty! She inadvertently murders another of Emily's girlfriends! She sends Alison a pet monkey that gives cryptic clues in American Sign Language! She gives Aria and Ezra a pie made with salt instead of sugar!

[mercfan3]

Jenna gave the sheet to the police (or she gave it to Toby to give to the police) and it made Garrett a suspect for Allison's death. I'm not sure what it said, but I think it's correct that whatever was on there, points to Garrett as Ali's killer. 

[Crim]

Season 15 spoiler: Alison's abandoned daughter is revealed as A

I like this idea. But do you think in season 15 the Liars might finally leave for college?

 

About page 5, it never made sense that it could reveal a pregnancy. I assume page 5 went missing later on, since no one noticed its absence when the autopsy report was first read. So details that could implicate someone if further investigated, yes, but a pregnancy would have been a lead to pursue ASAP. If there is ever a time for the show to get back to all that, it's now that the body was revealed as Bethany Young. Page 5 and Garrett might be yet another abandoned red herring though.

 

I hope it will be explained at some point why Noel is helping Ali. I don't remember them having a special connection in the flashbacks.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Crim

[Bort]

I like this idea. But do you think in season 15 the Liars might finally leave for college?

Conversely, that will be the year that Tammin and Troian will be eligible for social security.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm bringing back this topic because there's some interesting discussion about Ali in the 6x05 thread that could be discussed more in depth here.

 

I agree that since they brought Ali back from the dead, she's been different. We've know her for the first four seasons as a mean girl, the one girl in town that you wouldn't want to be friends with, but also that you wouldn't want to be enemies with. The girl who could use her words to hurt you in ways you would never think possible, and manipulate you into doing things you would never otherwise do. The girl who didn't care who she hurt, because it made her feel better. Ali also was never the type to give up, to accept defeat; she wouldn't even get mad, but she would get even and that is what has made the first four seasons amazing, to see those flashbacks and wonder why Aria, Spencer, Emily and Hanna would ever still be friends with Ali, and try to search for her killer. 

 

But then they brought her back and suddenly, she wasn't that same girl. Sure, it's realistic since she is still young, but it's not what we signed up for. Suddenly, she's someone vulnerable, someone who is weaker and has stopped fighting. Someone who gets super emotional and needs others to protect her because she can no longer do it by herself. Yes, she has been on the run for two years and has also been sticking around Rosewood lately. But that spark that made us both love and hate Ali has disappeared. Now she's just some normal girl who's been through a trauma. You would never believe she was the same girl from the flashbacks, the one who could be so unnecessarily cruel and manipulative, the girl who had fire within her and wasn't afraid to use it. I think because they brought her back as a semi-official Fifth Liar (in a way, though I consider Caleb the fifth Liar), they toned her down.

 

This show is mostly unrealistic anyway. The girls do things that shouldn't be done (they haven't grown much; when A attacks them, they still do the same thing which is either running away or trying to chase after them and failing....and then they don't tell anyone about it) the parents and cops are utterly useless and don't see anything, and there are older adults (mostly males) creeping after much younger teenagers (or Jason but that's less creepy). Why can't we have bitchy, fighting Ali? We can have her remorseful for all the things that she's done, but she can still have that fire inside of her. It is possible to have her grown and matured to an extent, but still be the same Ali that is not weak and can take care of herself and can manipulate people. Now I feel like we've lost that girl for good, all because they want her to be part of the Liars and be on the good side. I don't think the writers have a clue on how to do that, though, so they just went from one extreme to the other. There's no balance with Ali; she's either a mean, evil manipulative bitch, or she's some weak, emotional wreck. 

 

It's disappointing, because they had to find a way to redeem her, but also to have the Liars not forgive her right away. So most of the time, the Liars are either hating Ali or they're trusting her and protecting her. Ali hasn't really atoned for what she's done; she hasn't apologized to Mona for bullying her, she hasn't really apologized to the Liars, I don't think she's even gone to see Jenna, and it's just....it's bad writing for Ali since they brought her back from the dead. It was much, much better when she was dead. That way, the expectations of Ali were lowered. She's not a Queen B anymore; she's a Queen Boring. 

[mercfan3]

I don't see it that way with Ali. 

 

Ali has had a ridiculously traumatic life. 

 

Yes, she was a manipulative backstabing mean girl friend. But the point to Ali is that she was so much more than that. Her background isn't meant to excuse her behavior, it is meant to have people understand where she was coming from. 

 

She had a stalker (two, actually..) someone who was trying to kill her and mona. She was trying to figure out who it was. So she tested her friends. The things she did seemed cruel from the liars perspective, but the girl was alone in the world and trying to stay alive. 

 

She found out men were videotaping her and her friends. She blackmailed them. She confronted them. 

She didn't trust Jenna, so she blackmailed her to stay away from her.

She wasn't sure if she could trust her friends, so she tested them several times..(I think the test was more for Aria and Spencer, as Hannah and Emily were pretty devoted.)

She was afraid of Paige..so she tore her down...

 

Which is really where it all came from, fear and survival. She could be mean just to be mean, but she also did it for survival. Ali is very lolita like. 

 

Her mother buriend her alive, and has been murdered by the person after her. Her friends have been tortured because of her. Her father has been lying and manipulating her brother since they were born, and her other brother was institutionalized because of what he did to her. She has been on the run for two years, and has essentially lost her friends (which, as Mean Girls has taught us, a Queen Bee is nothing without her loyal followers.) Then talk about all the adult men who have made sexual advances on her or manipulated her. 

 

She is sorry for what she has done to her friends, and blames herself a little too much for the things that have happened. 

 

If she was anything but what she is now, it wouldn't be right.  The whole situation got bigger than what she could handle. And we still see Ali. Ali in jail...hurting herself and Hanna so they could talk in the infirmary..that's Ali. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

So she tested her friends. The things she did seemed cruel from the liars perspective,,,

 

From anyone's perspective, really. Not to mention absurdly counter-productive. If some maniac is trying to kill you, your teenage friends who have (probably) never been in a real fight wouldn't be much use. Especially if you make them hate you even more by scaring the shit out of them without explaining why.

 

 

She found out men were videotaping her and her friends. She blackmailed them. She confronted them.

 

Because she wanted that blackmailing material to get away with blinding Jenna. And she never bothered telling her "friends" about the voyeur videos, about A, about Mona, about not being dead, etc.

 

 

She was afraid of Paige..so she tore her down...

 

More like Paige didn't treat her like the queen of the world, so Alison almost drove her to suicide. Do you seriously believe Alison was really scared of Paige, instead of merely annoyed that the latter didn't bend over backwards for her like everyone else in school?

 

 

Ali has had a ridiculously traumatic life.

 

So did many people who never harmed anyone for the lulz. There is a reason why Fredian excuse is becoming a rather discredited trope.

 

 

Which is really where it all came from, fear and survival.

 

She was the ultimate mean girl long before any masked villain had started tormenting her.

 

 

She is sorry for what she has done to her friends, and blames herself a little too much for the things that have happened.

 

Yes, she is clearly so sorry to have ruined Jenna's life. Call me cynical, but I have seen this so many times on TV - have the character undergoing redemption be blamed for the things they didn't commit, sweep much of what they actually did under the carpet, then have them be blamed excessively for things that aren't really their fault, and never, ever portray the most sympathetic of the victims as adamantly reluctant to buy the sob story. For instance, if the Liars had kicked Alison to the curb because she was the worst friend in the history of the universe, instead of because they thought she was A, I think this would have lost her a lot of the audience's sympathy, so it couldn't happen - despite so much of their character development being tied precisely to rejecting Alison and all she stood for. Mind you, PLL still does it better than many other shows where the Karma Houdini gets back into the fold after some token short-lived protests by thew rest of the protagonists but that's damning with faint praise.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[lorikauai]

At this point I'm wondering why the writers brought back Ali at all. As a character she was more alive when she was dead. I do wonder if the actress's medical issues and resulting weight gain changed the direction of her character. I don't think that her character change can be so easily dismissed as "she's a traumatized victim - that's how they are". Maybe I could see it if she had been in the dollhouse for the past 2? 3? however many years but from what we know Ali was largely in control of her disappearance. She wasn't hiding in a basement the whole time. She was even in Rosewood visiting the girls (and did nothing to help them but instead confused and frightened them more). She had Cece and Noel and Shana and god knows who else bringing her money and doing her bidding. The narrative that paints Ali as a victim comes from Ali herself. The best I can hope for is that the Ali we are seeing is just a cover and she really isn't just lying around her house all day (except for church!) but secretly working some sort of plot of her own.

[superman1204]

 I don't think the writers have a clue on how to do that, though, so they just went from one extreme to the other. There's no balance with Ali; she's either a mean, evil manipulative bitch, or she's some weak, emotional wreck. 

I think this sums up the problem with Ali perfectly.  To some extent we expected Ali to have changed after being on the run for years.  The writers had to make her somewhat repentant, traumatized, or something.  The problem is the writers seem to love disregarding previous story lines and character develop in favor of whatever new direction they want to go in.  If they wanted Alison to be a weak, emotional wreck, they could have included scenes where her bitchy or controlling personality came out, or if they could have kept Alison as a mean, evil manipulative bitch, but little by little shown us how she had been affect by everything that happened.  Basically, anything that showed us that both sides of Alison's personality would have worked, but instead they flipped a switch, changed Ali's personality 180 degrees, and expected us to feel bad for her.

 

Speaking of disregarding story lines what happened with Ali and Emily?  In the course of a week, they went from friends, to dating, to enemies, to Emily helping send Ali to jail.  I am not saying I want to see them get back together, but shouldn't they at least discussed what happened?  Instead Emily is with Sara and Ali is with that cop (also way to show healthy relationships, writers). 

 

I know this this show was never going to win anything other than a Kid's Choice Award, but they really wasted a lot of potential the way they brought Alison back.

Edited July 5, 2015 by superman1204

[CloudySky]

I think once they got renewed for 7 seasons it was necessary to bring Ali back. I remember after they took back the Toby is A reveal (and then Ezra) I was kinda done with the show because I was over the red herrings. But Ali coming back breathed new life into the show.

 

IMO, they did a decent job in season 5 of showing us both the remorseful and the manipulative sides of Ali (especially with Emily). The christmas episode with the ball was a little ridiculous and wtf with Jenna and Sydney being part of her possé all of a sudden. But even then Alison's behavior and finding replacement liars could be understood when we know she isn't A and you see her peeking in the window of the liars and their partners having a nice Christmas dinner and stuff.

 

I think a breaking moment for the character was her conversation with Hanna when she was imprisoned. That she now knows what it feels like to be on the other side of things and have no say over anything, not even when to shower.

 

Considering all of her lies and plots landed her in jail and even the stupidest lie like the archery award was used against her, it makes sense that she would think twice before scheming now. Even so she did it to save the liars from the dollhouse.

 

It's jarring to see her so passive though. Old Ali would have flirted with Lorenzo to get him on her side for favors. This Ali just seems really vulnerable and not even that into him but savoring his advances because he's the only one who'll give her the time of day and not look at her like she's dirt.

[SadieT]

Yeah but that's only because he's gotten a pass from the writers. Realistically, Aria should be pretty messed up after finding out everything she did about him. Especially considering the daddy issues she already had. Even the other liars considering they built up the confidant/thrustworthy authority figure relationship between them and Ezra that season.

Is knowingly seducing a 16-year-old girl who you'll be in a position of authority over to pump her for information and stalking her and her friends and surveilling them whilst ignoring that they are in some seriously dangerous trouble worse than a teenager pulling a prank that goes horribly wrong? One is an adult doing a buttload of illegal shit who has yet to pay for his crimes or even have it acknowledged that what he was doing is criminal. The other is a minor who did something with terrible consequences. And although she has yet to pay for that specific crime and Toby taking the fall, she more than paid for it in other ways including jail time for a crime she did not commit.

 

She's no angel ;) Her demeanor this season makes sense to me. But it's boring and I wish she could be more involved with the others.

 

Yes, very well said. I totally agree with your stance on the situation. 

 

Ali blinding Jenna was horrible. She did something cruel and thoughtless and someone got seriously hurt as a result. Jenna’s life was terribly altered because of a decision Ali made and there’s no un-doing that. But Alison was also a child who didn’t intend to physically hurt anyone, so while I believe she did a terrible thing, I wouldn’t say she’s a terrible person as a result. And although I wouldn’t exactly call it an accident, because it was a poor decision on her part, she wasn’t trying to hurt anyone. She just didn’t think things through and take into account all that could go wrong… because kids that age rarely understand the full scope of their actions, their brains aren’t even fully formed yet, which is why we have a juvenile court system. Her intention was to get back at Toby, who she thought was spying on her and her friends, by destroying his property, which was of course a stupid thing to do. She didn’t know Jenna was inside the garage. In the flashback you see her visibly startle when she notices someone’s inside but at that point the damage is done and she goes on the defensive to cover up her mistake by acting like a bitch. So she blackmails the girl who was sexually assaulting her step-brother to staying quiet about what really happened.

 

At that point, that was really all Alison knew because that’s what she learned from her family. She was instructed to lie and to push people around by her mother from when she was very young, her father came across as not only absentee but also rather cut-throat himself, and her brother was an addict who never protected her and filmed her and her friends with his pervy friends, so the only defenses she had against the world was lying, bullying, manipulating and blackmailing. Alison is a girl who had an incredibly fucked up way of dealing with the world due to her incredibly fucked up family. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she returned from her time away from her family full of regret and seemingly changed. I think being away from them and having to survive on her own undid a lot of the damage her parents inflicted on her morality and she’s now starting to understand all the pain she’s caused.

 

So for me, the thoughtless mistake of a misguided child does not compare to the premeditated callous behavior of an adult sexual predator. Ezra hunted those girls down like prey, picked one to isolate and pursued her romantically for his own selfish agenda. He not only manipulated Aria into falling for him, but he also chose to ignore the danger these 4 girls were in and never once intervened to help them because he didn’t want to blow his cover. And he did all this as an adult who knows right from wrong and understands the reach of his actions, but he decided his book was more important than Aria’s mental well-being and the girls’ safety.

 

Aside from the statutory rape aspect of his behavior, which shouldn’t be ignored because not only was he older than Aria, but also in a position of power over her, which is gross on many levels. But he lied and mislead Aria, betraying her trust and using her in the process. You can’t tell me she wouldn’t be damaged by discovering the first man she’s ever loved was just using her to get inside info on her "dead" friend for his true crime novel. She lost her virginity to this man thinking he was someone he’s not… to find out he had been playing her the whole time would have absolutely destroyed her all her faith and trust in love. And while not on the same level, he broke the other girls’ trust as well since they saw him as an authority figure they could trust and rely on.

 

Now Ali’s misdeeds caught up with her and she’s suffered for them. She’s still paying for them. Her bullying lead to Mona harassing her via A texts and convincing Ali that if she wanted to survive after someone attempted to kill her and her mom buried her alive, her only choice was to run from her home, her family, her friends in fear. All her lies and shady behavior lead to her friends turning their backs on her after convincing her to come back when she didn’t feel safe and then accusing her of murder. She ended up completely alone and in prison for a crime she didn’t commit because of bad decisions she made when she was 15 years old (and possibly younger). She was convicted of said crime partly because when she was 11 years old she pulled a silly stunt and made her bunkmate compete in a camp archery contest as her. Could you imagine having to suffer for the mistakes you made at 11 years old?

 

What was Ezra’s cosmic punishment for being a sleazy manipulative sex offender? Nothing. He got a hero’s redemption. He gets shot saving the girls, recovers with no complications and everyone forgives him instantly. Aria even got back together with him and he joined the gaggle of children he preyed on for a lovely Christmas feast a couple of months later. No one turned on him or accused him of murder.

 

Aside from A, who is obviously a straight up psycho, Ezra is the worst person on the show in my mind. He’s not sick like Mona was, he wasn't a scared misguided child like Ali, he’s not an annoyingly brooding horrible boyfriend like Toby...he’s just a fucking creep. While I don't think Alison's behavior should be excused, it could at least be explained. I can't say the same for Ezra. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by SadieT

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Ali blinding Jenna was horrible. She did something cruel and thoughtless and someone got seriously hurt as a result. Jenna’s life was terribly altered because of a decision Ali made and there’s no un-doing that. But Alison was also a child who didn’t intend to physically hurt anyone, so while I believe she did a terrible thing, I wouldn’t say she’s a terrible person as a result.

 

I have seen this mentioned many times so I have to ask - exactly what makes you say that Alison didn't intend to physically hurt anyone? When you throw a burning object in an enclosed space, after you've specifically taken a look to see who's inside, it seems pretty clear to me that you do intend to harm somebody physically, or at the very least, don't care too much that this might happen in the worst case scenario. 14 is plenty old to realize what causes fires and what not to do to if you want to avoid fire.

 

 

Her intention was to get back at Toby, who she thought was spying on her and her friends, by destroying his property, which was of course a stupid thing to do.

 

My recollection is hazy and this show loves retcons but I'm pretty sure Alison knew full well Jenna was inside and that Toby was not a peeping Tom. Heck, she knew a bunch of people who had a literal voyeur club and (as far as we know) didn't throw any firecrackers at them. Nor did she bother telling her "friends" that insignificant detail.

 

 

Ezra hunted those girls down like prey, picked one to isolate and pursued her romantically for his own selfish agenda. He not only manipulated Aria into falling for him, but he also chose to ignore the danger these 4 girls were in and never once intervened to help them because he didn’t want to blow his cover.

 

Well, the show presented Ezra's story as him not intervening because he never managed to notice any sign of A in all his surveillance. Which makes no sense whatsoever but I think that's the story they were going for. Hey, maybe Ezra is that bad at spying or A actually can turn invisible. :)

 

I admit that one of the reasons I'm not particularly bothered by Ezra (he bores me to tears, mind you but doesn't repulse me) is because I have never managed to take his 4B arc seriously, even for a second. It was a hilariously silly retcon that was swept under the carpet ASAP. But even if I were to take it seriously, I still think blinding someone and never showing any remorse for it, then forcing someone to take the fall for you and your friends into backing your story and topping it all off with cracking jokes about the victim and blackmailing her too, is worse. And it's not something that can be explained with bad parenting alone. Jason doesn't torture people for shits and giggles (as far as we know). if you are just 15 and half the town has a motive to murder you... maybe you aren't a run of the mill mean girl but an actual sociopath, after all. Which is why the sudden appearance of Alison's consciousness bugs me. It feels undeserved.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[SadieT]

I have seen this mentioned many times so I have to ask - exactly what makes you say that Alison didn't intend to physically hurt anyone? When you throw a burning object in an enclosed space, after you've specifically taken a look to see who's inside, it seems pretty clear to me that you do intend to harm somebody physically, or at the very least, don't care too much that this might happen in the worst case scenario. 14 is plenty old to realize what causes fires and what not to do to if you want to avoid fire.

 

My recollection is hazy and this show loves retcons but I'm pretty sure Alison knew full well Jenna was inside and that Toby was not a peeping Tom. Heck, she knew a bunch of people who had a literal voyeur club and (as far as we know) didn't throw any firecrackers at them. Nor did she bother telling her "friends" that insignificant detail.

 

I'm saying her intention wasn't to hurt someone. Hurting someone was the unfortunate but not entirely unforeseen consequence of her thoughtless behavior. She didn't throw the firecracker in the garage thinking, “I really want to cause some serious physical damage to Toby (or Jenna) right now.” She threw it because she wanted to get back at Toby (for something he didn't even do) by blowing up his garage. This was obviously a very poor decision on her part, which is why she shouldn't be let off the hook, but I also don't think this makes her a sociopath whose incapable of growing and learning from her past mistakes.

 

She didn't know Jenna was in there. She may have acted like she didn't care either way after the fact, but in the flashback scene, she lights the firecracker and looks inside, but only to one side at first and when she doesn't see anyone, she throws it in. Then after she has thrown it, she turns her head and looks to the other side of the garage and gasps in shock, because she spotted Jenna, whom she wasn't expecting to be in there. So again, while her intentions weren't pure, they weren't to cause anyone physical harm either.

 

And do we know for sure she knew who the peeping toms were at that point? The Jenna thing was supposed to have happened around the 4th of July, wasn't it? So a couple of months before the never ending labor day where she runs around blackmailing everyone before eventually being bashed in the head with rock. She finds Ian's videos at Hilton Head right before returning to Rosewood for Labor Day. So she may have noticed or sensed someone spying on her and the others that summer but didn't know who it was till she finds the videos. Obviously Toby was innocent but she might have truly believed otherwise.

 

And it's not something that can be explained with bad parenting alone. Jason doesn't torture people for shits and giggles (as far as we know). if you are just 15 and half the town has a motive to murder you... maybe you aren't a run of the mill mean girl but an actual sociopath, after all. Which is why the sudden appearance of Alison's consciousness bugs me. It feels undeserved.

 

No, Jason isn't a bully but he is an addict, which was his way of coping with his situation. And the oldest DiLaurentis sibling, Charles, is a crazy obsessive stalker/murderer who tortures people (if he's still alive...if he's actually dead, he was just a crazy kid who tried to kill his baby sister). Now one bad seed in a family may be a fluke, but when all 3 of your children have serious problems dealing with the world, then the parents have royally failed and need to shoulder some of the blame.

Edited July 7, 2015 by SadieT

[mercfan3]

Ali didn't know who the peeping toms were. She found out labor day weekend when she saw Ian's videos. 

 

But again, it's funny that we talk about all of Ali's misdeeds..

Like, her blinding (accidentally) and blackmailing Jenna. You know, the rapist. (Well, one of Rosewoods rapists..)

 

Ali is not an innocent victim. No one is saying that, but what we are saying is that there are reasons beyond "She's a sociopath" for why she is the way she is..and some of those reasons are empathetic. 

[raytch]

No, Jason isn't a bully but he is an addict, which was his way of coping with his situation. And the oldest DiLaurentis sibling, Charles, is a crazy obsessive stalker/murderer who tortures people (if he's still alive...if he's actually dead, he was just a crazy kid who tried to kill his baby sister). Now one bad seed in a family may be a fluke, but when all 3 of your children have serious problems dealing with the world, then the parents have royally failed and need to shoulder some of the blame.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Kenneth and Jessica are just the worst, and that's saying something on this show.

Jessica buried her own daughter to cover up for another secret son. She also taught Ali to lie and lie until the lies became truths. 

We haven't seen much of Kenneth, but I honestly feel he's super sketchy. The way he talks to Ali and Jason is very condescending, which makes me wonder, given how fucked up they are, if they were ever abused by him when they were younger. We're meant to think that Ali was the golden child, so maybe not. But we've seen him mistreat Jason time and time again since the early seasons, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was violent towards him when he was younger. 

 

The show tackles the theme of bad parenting, and how much parents can hurt their children when trying to protect them or do what's best for them (at least what they think is best).

Spencer got addicted to drugs because her parents were obsessed with her going to an Ivy. Her parents constantly hid information from her about important things that she couldn't trust anyone, including herself (she thought she killed Ali for like half a season and went on investigating herself).

Aria's parents gave her so much freedom to explore and be whoever she wanted to be, that she thought she was already a grown up and defined herself by her (illegal) relationship with Ezra for the longest time. Byron had Aria keep his affair with his student a secret from the rest of the family for an entire year, which obviously affected her deeply since her first relationship was with her teacher. 

Emily's parents are okay, but they're also very absent.I have to say they're one of the more reliable parents. 

And as much as I love Ashley, let's not forget that when we first met her, she seduced a cop to keep him quiet about Hanna's shoplifting. Which was later followed by stealing an old lady's money, and the whole Wilden murder in season 4.Tom, on the other hand, has been shown time and time again, to put his own priorities and interests above Hanna's. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by raytch

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I'm saying her intention wasn't to hurt someone. Hurting someone was the unfortunate but not entirely unforeseen consequence of her thoughtless behavior.

 

I think this is a very generous interpretation of the events. To my recollection, neither the Liars, nor Toby or Jenna (i.e. all the people who knew who was to blame for that fire except for Alison herself) think Alison had merely property damage in mind when she threw that firecracker. I also don't recall Alison ever contradicting that notion, either.  if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck.

 

 

She threw it because she wanted to get back at Toby (for something he didn't even do) by blowing up his garage.

 

I still contend that it was Jenna who was clearly the target, not Toby. Jenna was a rival, something Alison couldn't possibly abide. Toby was a nuisance. And I don't believe for a microsecond that she believed he was the peeping Tom, that was merely a pretext.

 

 

She didn't know Jenna was in there. She may have acted like she didn't care either way after the fact, but in the flashback scene, she lights the firecracker and looks inside, but only to one side at first and when she doesn't see anyone, she throws it in. Then after she has thrown it, she turns her head and looks to the other side of the garage and gasps in shock, because she spotted Jenna, whom she wasn't expecting to be in there.

 

Or maybe she was playing dumb for the Liars benefit. Unless you think she really is stupid enough to set a garage on fire because she couldn't bothered to turn her head for a second, that is. Also, why would Toby or Jenna give a shit about the garage being set on fire if there was nobody there? It's not like they bought it with their own money or something like that. Alison has much more effective ways of scaring people that don't incriminate her as blatantly as this fire. Sure, if you squint hard it kind of, sort of, maybe makes some sense, but then again one can say that about Ezra's book and Toby "helping" Spencer by joining the A-team and yet few people seem to believe that.

 

And even if it weren't a premeditated attack, the way Alison relished Jenna's horrific injury and Toby taking the fall for her was so disgusting that I think the word sociopath fits quite well still.

 

 

Now one bad seed in a family may be a fluke, but when all 3 of your children have serious problems dealing with the world, then the parents have royally failed and need to shoulder some of the blame.

 

Some of the blame, yes, of course. Not all of it, though. Also, I find it rather silly how the writers decided to make Jessica and Kenneth into parents so bad they would fit right in a Joss Whedon show about the time they decided to bring Alison back. I mean, prior to season 4 we barely knew anything about those two, now the way things are going they might eventually turn out to have been serial killers. Annoyingly convenient, IMO. Especially the whole "I buried my daughter" incident. Not only was it the worst parenting move ever but the profound stupidity of not making sure Alison was actually dead.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[superman1204]

We haven't seen much of Kenneth, but I honestly feel he's super sketchy. The way he talks to Ali and Jason is very condescending, which makes me wonder, given how fucked up they are, if they were ever abused by him when they were younger. We're meant to think that Ali was the golden child, so maybe not. But we've seen him mistreat Jason time and time again since the early seasons, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was violent towards him when he was younger. 

For a while I really thought there was going to be a reveal about Kenneth being abusive.  When he was first introduced, he screamed at Hanna in public and Jason had to calm him down, so clearly the man has anger issues, that the writers wanted us to know about.  Also there was a flashback where Alison came over Spencer's house with a black eye.  At the time they wanted us to think it was from Jason because he was the A suspect of the season, but that never panned out, like twice, so Kenneth would make sense.  The only problem is now that Alison is home, Kenneth and her seem to have shitty but not abusive relationship, so it would be weird that haven't at least been hints in their scenes together.

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

Has Alison even had sex with Lorenszszszouuuu at least? I don't mean to be crass, but I have a REALLY hard time reconciling the ruthless, cut-throat and sexually driven Alison from the flasbacks with this scared little child who thinks she's in a relationship with a man simply because they shared a closed-mouth kiss! I mean, why, out of all the liars, Alison is the one they decide to de-sezualize the most? That just bugs me to no end, because it's not that I wanna see her hopping from bed to bed and I get that she's been through a lot, but one would think sex would be important to her. So the idea that romance to her now means playing aStepfordish wife serving her loved one meals and blushing and settling for a light kiss just makes me roll my eyes. Just because a character is sexually active (even when her character is Alison) does not mean they're being evil for the time being, writers!!!

Edited July 28, 2015 by Giuliano Lanzilli

[mercfan3]

It does make sense. Alison has never had a real relationship.

 

She's used her sexuality for power plenty of times. (Similar to Lolita) But she's never actually been in love. She wanted to with Emily, but then the girls thought she was A. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

I agree with both Giuliano Lanzilli and mercfan3 on this. While I'm extremelly frustrated with Alison's current storyline for the reasons the first poster stated, it does make sense. Alison is extremelly young, mentally and emmotionally especially, and a lot of bad things have happened with her and because of her. It's in the text she blames herself for everything and it makes sense she'd try to be the complete opposite of the person she once was. 

 

A lot of the choices the writers make with the girls are stupid things some teenage girls would do like: Spencer accepting Toby back after the TobiAs thing, same with Aria and Ezra. The problem is that they don't adress why these choices are terrible.

 

(Or rather, in Spencer's case, one could argue they're showing us instead of telling us why it's terrible. The first part of the season 3 was about Toby showing Spencer he became A to find out the truth about his mother's death and not to protect her, like he claimed. And he was a dick and she lied to her friends for him. From then on, he has been consistently a dick to her, Spencer can't care enough to stop herself from cheating on him and their relationship is in a constant whiplash going from hot to cold.)

 

I wish this Alison storyline was better executed, because it has been boring me to tears, and by God I hope against hope the writers actually get her to a place of self-forgiveness and self-acceptance and she feels she can be herself again, just a better version of herself. And not simply stop where we're at with this sexless, witless, boring Alison and go: there, we fixed her.

Edited July 28, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[mercfan3]

I think they've done a good job showing us why Ezria is terrible too. I think the writers are locked into couples and can't get out of them even if they wanted them. The fact that a producer actually tweeted that any teacher that dates his student is bad guy, suggests they think it's creepy too. :P 

 

I think we see a return to old Ali when she gets into survival mode, like in prison. But right now, she's not really in danger. She's isolated. She believes her friends were put through hell because of her. Although the storyline and personality shift with Alison isn't as fun, it completely makes sense. 

[SadieT]

It does make sense. Alison has never had a real relationship.

 

She's used her sexuality for power plenty of times. (Similar to Lolita) But she's never actually been in love. She wanted to with Emily, but then the girls thought she was A. 

 

Right. I think it's totally understandable that Alison wouldn't want to rush into anything with Lorenzo right now. She seems to genuinely like him and considering relationships are pretty much uncharted territory for her, it makes sense that she'd take things slow and be a little hesitant. Like you said, Ali has never been in love, except maybe with Emily and that obviously didn't work out. She's only ever known how to use people, and by extension, how to allow people to use her to get what she wants. She needs to learn how to be with someone for the right reasons. This is actually why I was interested in seeing Alison get a new love interest this season but I'm not too keen on who they picked because I think Lorenzo being a cop complicates matters. There's a power imbalance there and Ali needs to be on an even playing field with whoever she's going to be with because in the past, her "relationships" were all about who had the most power. Also Lorenzo has a habit of telling her how to think or feel and she should be figuring that out on her own. 

 

I agree with both Giuliano Lanzilli and mercfan3 on this. While I'm extremelly frustrated with Alison's current storyline for the reasons the first poster stated, it does make sense. Alison is extremelly young, mentally and emmotionally especially, and a lot of bad things have happened with her and because of her. It's in the text she blames herself for everything and it makes sense she'd try to be the complete opposite of the person she once was. 

 

I wish this Alison storyline was better executed, because it has been boring me to tears, and by God I hope against hope the writers actually get her to a place of self-forgiveness and self-acceptance and she feels she can be herself again, just a better version of herself. And not simply stop where we're at with this sexless, witless, boring Alison and go: there, we fixed her.

 

That's exactly what I think we've been seeing this season... an Alison who's trying to be someone else entirely because she's afraid to be herself. Because being herself has only led to her hurting the people she cares about and the people she cares about hurting her. It's frustrating because the best thing about Alison IMO has always been her strength and that seems to be gone now and this Alison is so passive and boring, but it also makes sense to me why she's acting like a shell of her former self. She's terrified being herself will push everyone further away from her and she's already pretty isolated because she doesn't have anyone the way the other girls have each other, or their partners, or even their families. 

[Lady Calypso]

Well for me, intending to hurt Jenna or not, she still did something reckless by throwing a firecracker into a garage, knowing it would most likely have something catch on fire. Firecrackers are flammable and she even looked into the garage to check if anyone was in there. I think the point is that she intended to have the Cavanaugh's garage set on fire in a way that does not require evidence to be found on Alison to have caused it. Whether that was the intention on Ali's part, it was still a very stupid and reckless and dangerous thing to do, even if Jenna hadn't been in there. Ali's a smart girl; she most likely knew what would have happened and she intended that firecracker to do harm either to Toby or to Jenna, or both. Even if she hadn't meant to hurt them directly, she still meant to cause as much damage as possible, and to show them to be afraid of her.

 

Alison also manipulated and emotionally abused her friends, at least in my perspective. As someone who does have experience with that (my now ex-roommate/ex 'best' friend was similar to Ali, just in a different and less dangerous way), Ali had no qualms in using and abusing her so-called friends, which is why it makes sense not only why people did not like her and would want to exact revenge, but why her friends would be so attached and why they would care so much and want to protect her. Look at Ali and Hanna's relationship.

 

Ali was cruel to Hanna in the worst possible way. She treated her like she was the lowest of the Liars and she emotionally used Hanna's insecurities about her body weight to get her to do what she wanted while sticking by her. Ali was so cruel to Hanna and it's no wonder Hanna doesn't take shit from her now. Those small comments about Hanna's weight, the whole "You'll find someone who loves you for exactly who you are....it'll just take you longer than the rest of us", it's all hurtful and it's a wonder how Hanna didn't break things off with Ali much sooner. But again, manipulation and abuse can be deadly and Ali knew how to do it very well. She didn't stumble upon it randomly, or happened to accidentally find a way to keep her friends by her side; she knew it and manipulated and abused them well. And it was all for power, and also to have 'friends' by her side, as she knew she wouldn't ever have true friends. 

 

I do take into account that Ali was barely fourteen/fifteen years old when this was all happening. She was young, she had pretty crappy parents and I know a lot of her behaviour comes from them. Knowing what we know now, with Charles and how her mother kept him a secret (as well as her father), it's clear that Ali and Jason couldn't live up to their parents' expectations. With their eldest son being committed to Radley after trying to kill Ali, and having Jason being Spencer's half brother, it heavily affected their parenting skills so of course Ali and Jason would end up being damaged. The problem is how both Ali and Jason dealt with their own issues. Jason turned to addictions as his coping mechanism. Ali turned to abuse and emotional manipulations and cruelty. Both of them are understandable, but I think Ali just took it to another level, where she has to be accountable for her own actions. 

 

I am also disappointed with the direction that Ali has gone. It's one thing to find a way to redeem her along with holding her accountable and making up for what she has done. It's another to basically ignore what she has done, or blasting her for everything from one episode to another. The writers have not allowed Ali to be redeemed, because I don't think they know how to do that. She hasn't apologized, she hasn't made up for anything, she hasn't done anything to show that she's becoming a better person. They've shown nothing but expect us to not only feel sorry for her (I do think we can feel sorry/sympathetic for her while still needing her to make up for what she's done) but also to ignore all the bad things that she's done in the past, pre-series. Going to jail for Mona's 'murder' did not do anything, because it was falsified.

 

Even if Ali is going to another extreme to not be herself, we cannot accept that change because nobody's addressing the problem. The show is, as of right now, ignoring all of that and I think it's justified to call them out on it and demand a better storyline for Ali, one where she actually tries and shows to be making up for her cruelty before her disappearance. I'd like to feel sympathetic to her, but they need to try harder with addressing what she's done and not sweeping it under the rug.

[SadieT]

Dead Ali was so much better than alive Ali. The only brief moment of intrigue she had was last seasons Thanksgiving episode and the Christmas episode. Now she's just sort of there. Plus I don't think she adds much to the group and she certainly messes up the dynamic of the show. I feel like the friendship between the four girls has been off-kilter since she returned last season. I don't know if this show meant this to be a choice or not but I notice it consistently and it makes me mad. 

 

I don't think she interferes with the other girls' group dynamic too much because she's not really included in it. She's been pretty isolated from the rest of them all season. Personally I wish they would try to include her with the group more because I think she adds something different to the mix, but Ali will never have the relationship with them that they have with each other. If anyone's messing up the liars' group dynamic this season it's Emily and her weird Sara obsession.  

 

It was bad enough when Ali made soup, but then when she said she would stay to do dishes and fold laundry, I was about to stab myself in the eyes with the nearest sharp object. My eyes were saved at the last second when Ali saw the card and took it - finally something underhanded! And then she admitted that she knew if she'd just asked, he would've said no and then she would've gone right ahead and done it anyway.

 

It's just a shadow of her old self, but I'll take it - I'm desperate for anything at this point. It was bad enough when Ali was just sitting forlornly in her house and/or church, but being turned into a housewife is ridiculous.

 

 

I'd like to think that she offered to do the laundry and dishes with the sole intention of stealing his ID card once he was passed out, but I think it was more a crime of opportunity and she just couldn't resist once she saw the card there on her way out. 

 

ITA! Actually, the second half of season 4 (when Ali was revealed to be alive) all the way through S5 will go down as one of my favorite periods of the show. I really, really dug what they did with Alison's character there. It's s6 that's ruining her for me, not bringing her back from the dead. That said, Dead!Ali remains the best. 

 

I didn't really find Ali interesting as a character until she was brought back to life. I found Dead Ali amusing and all, but then she was this larger than life figure of mystery, so she didn't seem real to me and I didn't really care about her. But I thought back from the dead Ali had layers and was actually a pretty interesting, complicated character. She had clearly been changed by her time on the run and seemed to really regret a lot of her past mistakes and genuinely want to be a better person, but she still had an edge to her and she couldn't quite shake all of her old habits. And she did plenty of crazy shit in season 5, like the fake kidnap story, and blackmailing Noel Kahn into breaking into Hanna's house to terrorize Hanna's mom, and bribing Cyrus, a guy who had assaulted her previously, into confessing to her fake kidnapping, recruiting new minions, making out with Holbrook, etc. Like she was in full out crazy, blackmailing, scheming, lying, Ali mode and it was great, but what I found interesting was that she wasn't doing those things for fun or just to be mean, she was doing them out of self-preservation because that's the only way she knows how to survive. 

 

However, post-prison porch Ali is a bore, even if it is understandable why she's acting this way. Despite all she's been through, I think it was her friends turning their backs on her and helping to put her in prison that finally broke her down and she hasn't been the same since. Well that and being informed that the psycho who has been trying to kill her and who kidnapped and tortured her friends is actually her long lost brother. That seems to have done a number on her as well. So she seems to be deliberately trying to be the opposite of who she used to be. I guess realizing that she acted shady enough for so long that her best friends not only thought she was capable of murder, but were willing to go as far as to plant evidence against her and physically keep her from evading arrest has changed her. And couple that with the guilt of feeling responsible for all the horrible things her friends have gone through because it's her and her brother/family that's at the root of it all, and it's really not all too surprising that she's not the same. Even the little flashes of old Ali we get are kind of watered down. I mean drugging her father with over the counter sleeping aids and decaf coffee and actually doing a man's laundry before she steals his police access card and jeopardizes his career? That's pretty tame for her. 

[WhosThatGirl]

The problem for me with the Ali character is that the show doesn't know what to do with her. Last season, she was screwing up the friendships with the girls from my viewing eyes, she got in between them and even though I hated last season, I kind of liked how Alison was sort of making the girls second guess each other because I thought for sure the show was going to make her "A" and I sort of liked it. But then that went nowhere. 

 

Honestly.. I would have preferred Ali to be big A versus Charles. Only because I don't think Ali is really sorry for the things she did. Ali was mean girl and was doing what it takes to survive. Also pre faux dead Ali loved games like this. She lived for it. She was so gleeful on her Halloween prank to the girls, it would not have surprised if she had been the one to do it all along. Plus, I hate the idea that it's always been an adult doing these things to the girls. That makes the whole situation even ickier. 

[Black Knight]

I'd like to think that she offered to do the laundry and dishes with the sole intention of stealing his ID card once he was passed out, but I think it was more a crime of opportunity and she just couldn't resist once she saw the card there on her way out. 

Yes, that was the same impression I got, especially since she actually did the chores first. But hey, at least she did grab the opportunity when it arose. I understand and agree with the wonderful points people have been making about how this current version of Ali makes sense for what the character has been through, but that doesn't make it less of a snoozefest to watch. I hope it's just limited to this half-season and that they'll move on to something more interesting for her. They're wasting SP's talents.

[lorikauai]

I actually feel like we're finally seeing a few more glimpses of the real Ali. Drugging her dad and sneaking out, stealing a key to tamper with police evidence - those are things that Ali would do. She wasn't emotional and afraid looking at the evidence in her mom's murder. She was calm and calculating. That is Ali.

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

Also pre faux dead Ali loved games like this. She lived for it. She was so gleeful on her Halloween prank to the girls

 

I loved that Ali!

[WhosThatGirl]

Same. I've been doing a rewatch of some episodes and I watched "A is for Answers" the other day and I loved, loved Ali on the night of "night of many yellow tops" when she was talking to Ian and threatening him, "and you're going to jail!" Loved it. I don't know how she became such a bore. As I said before, I really believed the first half of season 5, she was playing games with the girls. Using Emily's affections for her, ("can you walk me home? I'm scared, Em"), hell, there was even that moment where she was staying with the Marins and she had Noel fake attack them. I was really sure she was playing games. But nope.

 

And now, we have this Ali. Even with her brief periods of awesomeness, drugging her Dad was a brief flashback, she's still just this giant ball of..boringness. Eh. 

[krimimimi]

Same. I've been doing a rewatch of some episodes and I watched "A is for Answers" the other day and I loved, loved Ali on the night of "night of many yellow tops" when she was talking to Ian and threatening him, "and you're going to jail!" Loved it. I don't know how she became such a bore. As I said before, I really believed the first half of season 5, she was playing games with the girls. Using Emily's affections for her, ("can you walk me home? I'm scared, Em"), hell, there was even that moment where she was staying with the Marins and she had Noel fake attack them. I was really sure she was playing games. But nope.

And now, we have this Ali. Even with her brief periods of awesomeness, drugging her Dad was a brief flashback, she's still just this giant ball of..boringness. Eh.

I'd bet she is still playing more games than most notice. There was a scene early this season where Ali's talking to Spencer, who's only recently escaped from the dollhouse. And Ali manages somehow to make it all about herself, to the extent that Spence ends up comforting *her*. Right, because clearly Ali is the victim here. Pull the other one.*

I can easily believe that Ali is changed by her experiences, in some ways maybe for the better, but I also think she has evolved due to them. I think she's a natural manipulator and narcissist, incapable of not at least trying to dictate the narrative. It was one of the reasons I actually cheered Hanna's shutting her down with the attempts to campaign for sympathy for Charles (but he's my brother, wah... he buried your mom with the petunias. bang.). Sure she was rude, but she wasn't wrong (per se). I accept all the very good points people here have made as to why Ali could feel conflicted, I'm just not sure that I buy that she actually is, or to what extent if so. And even if those points factor into her behavior, I'd bet her need to set the tone outweighs her doubts and insecurities about herself and/or Charles.

Anyone pleading for understanding for someone who had victimized me, especially if it were someone they hardly even knew or knew anything about, would meet with a lot worse than Hanna dished out. And I'd hope that's true for most of us. Talk about your apologists. Except I still don't believe that's what Ali is. At best, Ali was incredibly tone deaf to the Liars' suffering, which is in direct opposition to the supposed empathy she's brimming with in being able to feel for poor Charles. At worst, she's trying to steer the girls again. And it worked with Spencer in that scene I mentioned above, and it worked to varying degrees with the others in the scene with Hanna's shutdown.

All of which gives me hope that Ali isn't de-clawed, she's just more subtle. Because I found that Ali fascinating to watch, and thoroughly enjoyed SP's performances. Unlike the more recent ones.

(I'm pretty sure the scene with Spence was in the ep with Andrew losing his shit with the girls, and he took a lot of flak here for that, for seeing himself as the victim. But I can't recall anyone expressing anything similar re Ali. So, yeah, way more subtle.)

I also think comments like Ali's "you never even liked me" to Spence are pretty loaded, and find it interesting that (as I'm viewing it) Spence is more of a focus for such efforts than the other girls.

* I believe very strongly that people are entitled to their feelings, and are not in competition with one another. I don't feel that you have to have the absolute worst story in order to be "allowed" to complain or receive comfort. In real life. With normal people. But Ali's 1) a fictional character (which directly influences how I discuss her) 2) who has shown some thoroughly malignant characteristics. (Whether or not we think we can understand (or even justify) how she came to be that way is less important than that she *is* that way.) And I think she has repeatedly demonstrated behavior I find hard not to view as sociopathic. In which case it pays to ask: is she really just down and in need of a hug, or is this a manipulation?

[Snappy]

I must admit, I am Shocked at how heavy Alison has gotten, and the fact that she is styled in a way that actually makes her look pregnant.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'd bet she is still playing more games than most notice. There was a scene early this season where Ali's talking to Spencer, who's only recently escaped from the dollhouse. And Ali manages somehow to make it all about herself, to the extent that Spence ends up comforting *her*. Right, because clearly Ali is the victim here. Pull the other one.*

 

(...)

 

At best, Ali was incredibly tone deaf to the Liars' suffering, which is in direct opposition to the supposed empathy she's brimming with in being able to feel for poor Charles. At worst, she's trying to steer the girls again.

 

 

I think you raised some great points. I used to be a big fan of Alison's character but this season she has irked me like never before. I completely agree she has displayed very little empathy to the girls and, imo, has been coming off incredibly self-absorbed and manipulative, much more than say S5 when she was accused of manipulating the girls. Then, her behavior felt much more instinctual, born out of the need for self-preservation. Now she somehow manages to act very entitled and pathetic at the same time, but I have no doubt it's completely calculated.

 

That said I don't think she's evil or dangerous or that she's incapable of compassion or of being a good friend when the mood strikes her (see Emily last episode). But I also don't think she has a selfless bone in her body. More than ever her character appears to have an agenda for everything.

 

 

 

I must admit, I am Shocked at how heavy Alison has gotten, and the fact that she is styled in a way that actually makes her look pregnant.

 

 

It's very hard to talk about this and coming off well, and I can only hope SP doesn't know of the existence of this board let alone checks it out, but Alison's look from head to toe this season has been problem for me. I'm sure if the story was better I wouldn't be so hyper aware of that but since I have nothing to distract me it's become an issue. The hair...the long, stringy, terrible fake hair. Why? Why so much hair? Why so long? Why so fake looking?

 

The tea lengh dresses. Mother of God, who looks good in those? Who?? During the summer there was a sneak peak of Alison wearing this gorgeous red dress without any jackets or blazers in a scene with Mona and girl looked like a goddess. So why put her in these awful clothes? The fabrics look so heavy and the prints so terrible and the way they make her look really takes me out of the episode. I'm really sorry but it's the truth.

 

The make up deserves a paragraph of its own. Never have I seen such terrible make up on television and I watch A LOT of television. Alison wears enough make-up to drown a 45 year old divorcee. But that's not a problem exclusive to her. Hanna comes in close second when it comes to unfortunate hair and terrible make-up, imo. Someone really hates the blondes on this show because Spencer has been looking striking and both Aria and Emily generally look fine to me, so I really don't know.

 

Today I saw a picture of Sasha looking incredibly tiny, like season 5 weight, so hopefully next season they'll stop punishing her and us.

Edited February 15, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[superman1204]

So we all know the writers of this show love to make heavy-handed references to classic movies.  Does anyone think that is what they are doing with Alison?  For some reason I keep getting the feeling that she is housewife from the 1950's or 1960's.  Was there some classic movie were a woman spends years waiting at home  for a loved one to return, only to have them stolen away from her?  I would explain why Alison clothes look terrible, since they are meant as a reference some outdated fashion.  Also it would explain why Alison's personality did a 180, because the character she is being modeled after was not a former queen bee, but instead a housewife or a teacher.  The reason I am guessing this movie is from the 50's or 60's is because Alison is dealing with Charlotte's treatment and murder by being completely passive and throwing herself at an older respectable man.  She is never self destructive or proactive, she is just kinda there.  It just seems like a really dated way to right a female character.

[rho]

^^ Now that you say it, I am getting a hint of a Rebecca vibe but I think that's giving the writers too much credit