S03.E04: Lyra and Her Death

[Cranberry]

Quote

Lyra and Will travel to a dangerous place from which no one has ever returned. Mrs. Coulter tries to thwart the Magisterium's deadly plan.

Original air date: December 12, 2022 (HBO); December 18, 2022 (BBC iPlayer); January 8, 2023 (BBC One).

[mjc570]

NON-BOOK READER HERE 
I know she is super special and beloved by all, but I simply cannot stand Lyra.  What a spoiled, selfish brat.  Just to assuage her guilt about Roger, she undertakes that ridiculous journey to the land of the dead, (1) causing great harm and pain (and possible death) to Pan; (2) risking Will and the all-important knife, and (3) depriving the forces against the Authority (and I recognize that Asriel is not the good guy, but still) of a necessary weapon.  Pan was right - she chose Roger over him.  I had to laugh when Pan asked her about his possible death, and her response is that if they all die, at least it was for something worthwhile.  And what exactly is that? 

At this point, the only person who I feel has any morals is Mrs. Coulter and (I assume) Mary Malone.  Speaking of whom - do we really have to watch her wander the dessert for 40 days and nights? 

And speaking of Mrs. Coulter - why didn't she just substitute her own hair for Lyra's so that the bomb would destroy the Magisterium's citadel.  Or, is that her plan?

[aghst]

Well her parents are Asriel and Marisa so her obstinacy is hardly surprising.

I guess the chosen one gets her way.

It's her journey, everyone is just along for the ride.  But before she saves the worlds, she has to take that journey?

Plus she's super mad at daddy for you know, killing her best friend, so going to Asriel is not her first choice.

Marisa discovers the hard way that she's in over her head.  No way she'd know that the Magisterium would develop some smart bomb that would traipse across different worlds to find the victim.  I thought Roke killed the mad scientist but I guess not.

Looks like Mary Malone may have something to do other than walk across the wilderness, occasionally running into children.  Not sure what she left behind by that tree.  Looked like some knitting, like socks or gloves?

Asriel can torture and kill angels now.  But as Ruta noted, maybe that's not the best way to recruit other angels for his army.

All the conversations about whether she was going to cross the river to the Land of the Dead seemed interminable.  They got that far, what else is left to discuss?  But Pan sure can emote, better than some of the human actors, though of course that's a human voice.  The way he turned from Lyra "you've already chosen Roger over me! -- impressive computer animation, they now have rendering technology for petulance!

[AnimeMania]

[Bill1978]

Congratulations show, you did it. You made me actually care for Ms Coulter and believe that just maybe she is one of the good guys in the grand scheme of things. Although considering the antagonist for her this episode was the power-hungry Father President it's not that hard to side with Ms Coulter. And for the first time in the story, I'm not sure if she knows how to get herself out of the predicament, she is in. And I confess I have no idea how this bomb actually works, especially since Father President said that Ms Coulter will be the bullet than kills Lyra.

So, I assume the area Lyra and Will spent most of this episode in is this story's version of Purgatory? It was an interesting way to present that concept. And that final scene with Pan and Lyra was utterly heartbreaking. And well done to the effects crew and Kit Connor for making me care so much about a CGI animal. Man, I hope Lyra and Pan are reunited. I'm interested to see what is going to happen to Will since his soul is internal and he needs to be separated from it to continue his journey.

Mary's plot better have a point cause at the moment it just seems to exist because they like the actress. And I didn't miss Asriel at all this episode.

[go4luca]

I hate that I'm beginning to really not like Lyra.  I never thought I'd see the day that I cared more about Mrs. Coulter.  Pan was emoted so well, it broke my heart.  Massive kudos to the  VFX and Post teams.

[Affogato]

On 12/18/2022 at 2:11 PM, go4luca said:

I hate that I'm beginning to really not like Lyra.  I never thought I'd see the day that I cared more about Mrs. Coulter.  Pan was emoted so well, it broke my heart.  Massive kudos to the  VFX and Post teams.

Yes, I think this is a low point in her journey. From our perspective, yes, not very likeable. It is also a point when she could waver and turn away from what she clearly believes is right. Pan, who is heartbreaking, is her soul, so she is soul sick, holding on to her mission, possibly using and putting Will in danger, too. 

[HappyHanna]

Why is Lyra obsessed with Roger? He's dead,  that sucks,  you feel responsible sure,  but cone on.  Like others have said,  it makes me dislike her,  stupid girl. 

[aghst]

At a young age, witnessing the death of one’s closest friend would be traumatic and not easily forgOtten.

Especially the guilt she feels, bringing him to her father and feeling betrayed.

Plus he haunted her in her dreams.

What’s a girl to do, no time for therapy?

[Cranberry]

10 hours ago, aghst said:

At a young age, witnessing the death of one’s closest friend would be traumatic and not easily forgOtten.

I'm 40 and I'd find it pretty traumatic if someone murdered my best friend in front of me...

And if, after my best friend was murdered, they kept calling to me in my dreams and I knew they were in a real place I could actually get to... the guilt would eat me alive if I just shrugged and said, "Sorry, you're dead. I have other stuff to worry about."

[Bill1978]

I also think we need to remember that while it's been nearly 4 years for us, within the story this is all happening in under a year (from what I can gather), even if the child actors have had unexplained growing up during the telling of the story. So Roger's death is still fresh for Lyla

[luvly]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:09 PM, Bill1978 said:

And I confess I have no idea how this bomb actually works, especially since Father President said that Ms Coulter will be the bullet than kills Lyra.

My understanding was that the bomb would be able to find Lyra no matter which world she was in because it works by seeking DNA. So they had the weapon they needed to destroy her but didn't have the ammo until Marisa walked in with a lock of Lyras's hair in her locket.

[Black Knight]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:23 PM, mjc570 said:

What a spoiled, selfish brat. Just to assuage her guilt about Roger, she undertakes that ridiculous journey to the land of the dead, (1) causing great harm and pain (and possible death) to Pan; (2) risking Will and the all-important knife, and (3) depriving the forces against the Authority (and I recognize that Asriel is not the good guy, but still) of a necessary weapon.  Pan was right - she chose Roger over him.  I had to laugh when Pan asked her about his possible death, and her response is that if they all die, at least it was for something worthwhile.  And what exactly is that? 

At this point, the only person who I feel has any morals is Mrs. Coulter and (I assume) Mary Malone.

It's more complicated than that, I think. What Lyra and Will saw in this episode matched things she saw in her dream of Roger, which elevates it from a simple dream born out of subconscious guilt to an actual vision sent by Roger. That's fairly unprecedented, or most anyone who'd ever had a loved one die would have that person reaching out to them in their dreams. So Roger must be reaching out for an important reason. Will spent months looking for Lyra instead of bringing the knife to Asriel, so he's done the same thing of postponing giving the knife to Asriel in order to aid a friend. I don't think either Will or Lyra are being selfish or spoiled.

And it pained Lyra a lot to leave Pan behind. She tried everything except giving up on the mission to reach Roger. I love Pan, and the whole thing was very sad, but Pan is a teenager himself and was lashing out in typically teenage petulance. It can be argued that if anyone in this situation was being selfish and bratty, it was Pan, who was thinking only of himself.

As for Mrs. Coulter having morals, I wouldn't call it morals. If any other girl were said to be Eve, I'm pretty sure Mrs. Coulter would be the first one to push the button on the bomb to blow her up. It's much the same as season 1, where Mrs. Coulter was totally okay with reducing untold numbers of children into shells of themselves, killing some of them, but not her daughter. When she and Hugh were talking and he said, "the child," she quickly retorted, "my child."

I do think one plot hole in this episode is that Lyra has the alethiometer again, but she's not using it for anything. Instead of just reassuring Pan without evidence that she'd be able to return to him from the Land of the Dead, she could have asked the alethiometer for confirmation of that. I wonder if they're trying to make some sort of point that now that she's older she's less willing to constantly just look things up, jump ahead in the book, so to speak, instead of finding out organically by just living life as it happens, but she used to check the alethiometer regularly.

[PinkRibbons]

Wasn't there a scene where Lyra said the alethiometer seemed just as confused as her in regards to the journey to the land of the dead? That might be why she doesn't rely on it.

It's hard to convey both in the books and the show, so we have to take Word of God for this and try to comprehend it, but it's pretty imperative to remember that Lyra and Pan are the same person. It's hard to see it that way when they seem to be at odds, but when they argue it's genuinely a literal argument with oneself. It's harder to push away the part of your brain saying "don't do it" when it's a corporeal creature saying it to your face. It's possible that if Lyra was trying to stop herself from seeing Roger, Pan would be the one telling her to go. He doesn't necessarily exist to be in confrontation with her, but he does often provide a counterbalance to her. Remember at the start of the series, Pan was far more cautious than Lyra - because a part of Lyra knew she needed to be more cautious.

[Black Knight]

7 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

It's hard to convey both in the books and the show, so we have to take Word of God for this and try to comprehend it, but it's pretty imperative to remember that Lyra and Pan are the same person. It's hard to see it that way when they seem to be at odds, but when they argue it's genuinely a literal argument with oneself.

For the most part, yes. However, it's also imperative to remember that they don't share sight or other individual experiences that come about because they are separate entities physically. Lyra does not see what Pan sees and vice versa. And this contributes to their differing perspectives, even though they are the same person. In this episode, that's important because Pan noted during their argument that Lyra's dream of Roger was her dream. It's a lot different to be told about a dream than it is to actually dream it. He didn't experience that dream himself, and that colored his perspective. So this particular argument was a bit different from simply two parts of the same mind arguing with each other, which you're correct is usually the case with Lyra and Pan. When we non-daemon-having humans have two parts of ourselves arguing with each other, both parts have all the same experiences and memories and facts and so on. Lyra and Pan don't always.

[Llywela]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:00 AM, luvly said:

My understanding was that the bomb would be able to find Lyra no matter which world she was in because it works by seeking DNA. So they had the weapon they needed to destroy her but didn't have the ammo until Marisa walked in with a lock of Lyras's hair in her locket.

Also, the weapon is powered by daemon severing technology. McPhail plans to sever Marisa from her daemon in order to power the weapon. That's what he meant when he said she would be the bullet.