S31.E09: 90's Night

[LadyMustang65]

12 hours ago, Sd601 said:

But with some of the online hate she gets for being a ringer, I don’t mind. While she trained for years in dance, she obviously wasn’t good enough to pursue dance as a career. 

That's not true.  Charli was very successful in dance competitions and won many prestigious events.  After one such event, one of the judges said that Charli, out of all the dancers IN THE WORLD, was the one most likely to have a career as a professional dancer.  She only stopped competing when she took off on TikTok and was raking in half a million dollars a year from the platform with her dancing.  In other words, she turned pro.  That's what you call someone who gets paid to do something for a living.  And let's face it, getting beaucoup bucks from TikTok is easier and much more lucrative than a traditional career as a dancer.  From TikTok, she now has a clothing line with her sister, a perfume, and a reality tv show starring her whole family.  All of which has given her an estimated net worth at the ripe old age of 18 of $20 million.  Why would she give that up?

[White Dog]

Charli with all those accolades still isn’t a world class performer?  I wasn’t a Charli fan until that Foxtrot. For me, Her dancing is some of the most beautiful ballroom I’ve seen on this show. And as Len said with the Tango she dances beyond her years. Not all Contemporary and ballet trained dancers make the transition to ballroom the way Charli has on this show. She’s a special talent, just not world class according to some. 
There have been “stars” with questionable celebrity come on this show from children of politicians to reality stars famous for having sex. Social media is yet another medium and if a young teen can promote her love of dance and her talent to a massive audience to me it’s not a bad thing. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by White Dog

[boyznkatz]

17 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

+1

I have fast forwarded the judges for years and it makes the show an absolute delight to watch lol.

Absolutely nobody is going to do this show anymore if they continue to make a mockery of this "competition" by deciding who they want in the finals. This show was fun when we got surprises like shock eliminations and winners we didn't expect. Not anymore. I was on the Iman train and was happy when he won, so I didn't expect it to be so predictable this season.

[boyznkatz]

1 hour ago, LadyMustang65 said:

That's not true.  Charli was very successful in dance competitions and won many prestigious events.  After one such event, one of the judges said that Charli, out of all the dancers IN THE WORLD, was the one most likely to have a career as a professional dancer.  She only stopped competing when she took off on TikTok and was raking in half a million dollars a year from the platform with her dancing.  In other words, she turned pro.  That's what you call someone who gets paid to do something for a living.  And let's face it, getting beaucoup bucks from TikTok is easier and much more lucrative than a traditional career as a dancer.  From TikTok, she now has a clothing line with her sister, a perfume, and a reality tv show starring her whole family.  All of which has given her an estimated net worth at the ripe old age of 18 of $20 million.  Why would she give that up?

I'm still trying to figure out why she's doing DWTS, unless she wants to get into professional dancing. Like you said, it would be a lot easier to make money on social media and DWTS doesn't pay much. As the mother of a kid her age, I hope she goes to college, though. Fame is fleeting, and today's social media stars won't be remembered tomorrow.

Edited November 9, 2022 by boyznkatz

[White Dog]

My guess is she’s doing it for exposure to a demo that loves dance but just aren’t on TikToc. The more exposure the more potential revenue sources.Guys like Alfonso did it for exposure so he could host, Zendaya did it to open up her audience from the young kids and now she’s truly a world class performer with her Emmys and red carpet buzz. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by White Dog

[DEL901]

32 minutes ago, White Dog said:

My guess is she’s doing it for exposure to a demo that loves dance but just aren’t on TikToc. The more exposure the more potential revenue sources.Guys like Alfonso did it for exposure so he could host, Zendaya did it to open up her audience from the young kids and now she’s truly a world class performer with her Emmys and red carpet buzz. 

Even as far back as Emmet Smith…his wife encouraged him to do it to expand his brand since he was retired from Football and was only appealing to advertisers in a narrow audience.   He knew it worked the first time he was in an airport and a bunch of older ladies approached him wanting to know “if he was that dancer”.  

[Fliz]

13 hours ago, LadyMustang65 said:

I really like Wayne Brady, and I don't find him arrogant at all.  His comment about being a world class performer was the statement of someone who is confident and knows his worth.  It was a statement of fact.  The guy has been on Broadway, sings, has great comedic talent and can make up songs on the spot about weird subjects and sing in different styles.  He is a world class performer, as in being able to put on a show.  Honestly, I'll take that over the humble brag types who always come across as so phony to me.  Wayne owns his talent, but he still comes across to me as a very down-to-earth type guy who would be a blast to hang out with.  

Totally agree - Wayne is excellent across several platforms.

I am also enjoying Gleb this season, which is a total shock to me. His choreography and partnership with Shangela have really made me rethink my (usually poor) opinion of him.

[LadyMustang65]

2 hours ago, White Dog said:

My guess is she’s doing it for exposure to a demo that loves dance but just aren’t on TikToc. The more exposure the more potential revenue sources.

That would be my guess as well.  At least my charitable guess.  My uncharitable guess is she's addicted to the attention and praise and will do pretty much anything to feed that addiction.  But since she seems to have this insatiable desire to be in the spotlight (her latest is that she thinks she wants a singing career like her sister), she needs to keep growing her audience.  Judging from how many people seem to dislike her (or at best just not care one way or the other), I'm not sure how successful this will turn out to be for her.

12 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Charli/Gabby-Tough call, but honestly why even bother? Charli, barring actually falling down, was winning this one.

Bold of you to assume that she wouldn't have won even if she fell!  <lol>

[White Dog]

Yes 16 year old Zendaya  tried  on a singing career after DWTS  to modest  success. I think Kelly Pickler tried to resurrect her country music career and hosted a show until it cancelled.  It’s what ambitious people do. 

[LadyMustang65]

3 hours ago, White Dog said:

Charli with all those accolades still isn’t a world class performer?  I wasn’t a Charli fan until that Foxtrot. For me, Her dancing is some of the most beautiful ballroom I’ve seen on this show. And as Len said with the Tango she dances beyond her years. Not all Contemporary and ballet trained dancers make the transition to ballroom the way Charli has on this show. She’s a special talent, just not world class according to some. 

Accolades do not necessarily equate to world class.  Her lines are beautiful, but you expect that from someone with the amount of training she's had.  For many, myself included, her dancing is cold and precise with no real feeling, so while I can see that she is technically very strong, she's not particularly enjoyable to watch.  Mark consistently pulls my attention away from her.  I disagree with Len that she dances beyond her years.  You watch the kids that compete on SYTYCD, and they're all really good technically and most are around Charli's age.  But a lot of them lack the same thing Charli does - the ability to connect emotionally with the dances they're doing.  Which is actually pretty understandable given that they don't have the depth of life experience to bring to the dances.  So they do what Charli does - they parody what they think those emotions would feel like and how they would be expressed.  Some are better than others are it.  Charli is mostly not terribly good at that.

It's true that not all contemporary dancers can make the transition to ballroom, but if you watch SYTYCD, we've seen that contemporary dancers pretty consistently handle the ballroom dances better than dancers trained in other styles.  In fact, two contemporary dancers with no ballroom training previously went from SYTYCD to becoming pros on DWTS.  Allison Hoelker and Koine (Koko).  So Charli is not some special fluke.  And yes, she's very talented, but definitely not a world class performer.  It takes more than just technical excellence to be a world class performer.  You need heart as well.  Imho anyway.  Your mileage may vary.  

[LadyMustang65]

4 minutes ago, White Dog said:

Yes 16 year old Zendaya  tried  on a singing career after DWTS  to modest  success. I think Kelly Pickler tried to resurrect her country music career and hosted a show until it cancelled.  It’s what ambitious people do. 

True.  And they are sometimes mocked or criticized for it, too.  Charli is not being singled out.  Maybe I'm being unfair to Charli, but she lost any chance of making me care about her when Len mentioned her missing a step in the group dance, and she looked like she wanted to murder him and Mark had to jump in and pretend he was the one who messed up rather than "perfect Charli."  That and her constantly being made the center of attention in her mother's packages and interviews just makes me think she's a spoiled brat used to be fawned over, and everyone around her caters to that.  I would still like to see her be a shock elimination next week.  Definitely don't want her to win.  At this point, as much as I love Wayne Brady, I'm pulling for Shangela to win.  Her technique is sloppy sometimes, but she just brings it every time she dances.  Lights up a room in a way Charli certainly doesn't.  

[White Dog]

Both Allison and Koine took a number of ballroom lessons and were noticeably good at it in the Vegas rounds before the live show.  They were not ballroom specialists but they  could dance the style and got better at it. But a lot of contemporary dancers just don’t have the legs for ballroom. Cross trained dancers like Koine and Allison have worked at it.  
 

Charli for me was excellent on her intensity on the Blur Song 2 Tango.  I can see why a judge would be praising her. 

[White Dog]

Just now, LadyMustang65 said:

True.  And they are sometimes mocked or criticized for it, too.  Charli is not being singled out.  Maybe I'm being unfair to Charli, but she lost any chance of making me care about her when Len mentioned her missing a step in the group dance, and she looked like she wanted to murder him and Mark had to jump in and pretend he was the one who messed up rather than "perfect Charli."  That and her constantly being made the center of attention in her mother's packages and interviews just makes me think she's a spoiled brat used to be fawned over, and everyone around her caters to that.  I would still like to see her be a shock elimination next week.  Definitely don't want her to win.  At this point, as much as I love Wayne Brady, I'm pulling for Shangela to win.  Her technique is sloppy sometimes, but she just brings it every time she dances.  Lights up a room in a way Charli certainly doesn't.  

For someone who has been criticized for not showing any emotion I don’t know how anyone could say she looked like she could murder Mark. to me she looked bewildered and didn’t know how to respond. I watched the footage back and Mark put in a foxtrot basic step in hold that she wasn’t expecting. It was definitely foxtrot because of the rise and fall. 

[LadyMustang65]

So I found a chart with all the dances they've done so far.  There's been more variety than I thought but still some things seem a bit weird.  Five out of the 8 couples dancing last night have done both contemporary and jazz, including Charli, and those were her specialties when she was competing.  Shangela and Vinny had done jazz but not contemporary.  Gabby strangely enough has not done either.

Only Vinny and Daniel have done a paso doble.  Charli, Heidi, and Gabby have done both the Tango and the Argentine Tango. The rest have done just the Tango.  Vinny, Shangela, and Heidi didn't do a jive, Vinny also didn't do a foxtrot. Wayne hasn't done a rhumba, and Trevor hasn't done a cha cha.  Only Shangela has done the Charleston, and aside from the dance marathon, that's the only "old-timey" dance anyone has done.  Heidi and Vinny hadn't done a Quickstep.  Wayne, Charli, Trevor, Shangela, and Daniel have not done a Viennese Waltz.  There has been only one regular waltz done on the show this season, and that was Selma's last dance.  Selma also did a Viennese waltz - the only one to dance both styles.

Charli has had the top score 6 out of 8 weeks so far.  One of the weeks she didn't have the top score was the week Selma had to leave the competition.  Her waltz was top score, and I think that was deliberate as a nice way to send her off.

[LadyMustang65]

1 hour ago, White Dog said:

For someone who has been criticized for not showing any emotion I don’t know how anyone could say she looked like she could murder Mark. to me she looked bewildered and didn’t know how to respond. I watched the footage back and Mark put in a foxtrot basic step in hold that she wasn’t expecting. It was definitely foxtrot because of the rise and fall. 

Not showing any emotion in her dancing. This happened while standing at the judges' table.  She didn't want to murder Mark; she looked at Len like she wanted to murder him.  And while you seem to know quite a bit about ballroom dancing, I'm not buying that Mark put in a step they hadn't practiced.  He's too much of a consummate professional to do that to her.

[realdancemom]

I wasn't going to comment until I watched the relays.  I might not get to them so here's my thoughts.

Charli and Mark - Best of the night for me.  This was her best dance.  My second favorite from her is their foxtrot.  I believe that I mentioned that I didn't like her AT last week because she was technically excellent as always but went back to not performing.  Yes, her fierce face is something that was planned but at least, it matched the dance.  Still waiting to see if she brings out the spicy with a sexy Latin number.  I do want her in the finals because I want to see what Mark will choreograph for their freestyle.  

Daniel and Britt - Britt's choreography was really good here and I liked the silent portion even though I know Nyles and Peta did it too.  Probably my favorite dance from him.

Heidi and Artem - mentioning her next because choreography does matter.  Artem is not a contemporary choreographer.  Even though, I did like this routine more than what Artem choreographed for Melora, it's still weak.  I think Heidi did try to bring emotion but it's just not in her personality.  Like she mentioned in her package, she's guarded because of online comments.  I don't follow her but I can imagine people being cruel online.

Trevor and Emma - Trevor's strength has always been his acting ability.  He and Emma did really well acting as Ken and Barbie.  The dancing not so much.  The lifts were also labored.

Gabby and Val - it was saucy but messy.  It didn't deserve 10s.  There was definitely a mess up towards the end of the samba rolls which didn't last long.  They were funny with Alfonso but it started getting too much with Gabby cheering for the judges to take it off.  Reminds me of frat parties where people are encouraged to chug beer or take shots.

Wayne and Witney - He was good but Witney kept drawing my attention since she was so much better.  He needed to be a little lower and not so upright.

Vinny and Koko - I'm glad that he was eliminated on a night that he didn't mess up.  Even though, he should have left weeks ago, I think it's better if he was proud of what he did.  He looked really defeated two weeks ago.

Shangela and Gleb - She really is a performer and was excellent here.  I could harp on her feet but I've done that weeks ago.  They do look better though.  Her legs and feet used to make me cringe.

Sasha and Daniella on one of the bumpers - They were so good especially Daniella.  She did a bumper with a different pro last time and she was also hot there.  So hot that I forgot who she danced with. LOL I think Sasha looks better when he dances with a shorter pro like Daniella or Alexa vs. when he dances with Emma who is taller than those two.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Maybe I'm being unfair to Charli, but she lost any chance of making me care about her when Len mentioned her missing a step in the group dance, and she looked like she wanted to murder him

This is making me want to go back and watch the judges segment because it sounds funny lol. 

[Ilovepie]

I know Tyra is terrible, and people are pissed about the move to D+, but I am loving this season - it's made me like a Bachelorette and Gleb, two things I never thought I would say! And with the elimination of Vinny and Heidi, I enjoy everyone left to some degree. Every week there is at least one dance that makes me feel something. I loved the 90's theme - I was a older teen/college student so that is my era! I had to pick my dog up and dance around my office with him when I heard Ice Ice Baby ;-p

I have been rooting for Wayne since day one, but I have to admit my allegiance is shifting. He was over scored to me. He did not look smooth, and why does every single dance feel like a hip hop routine? I still like him, but he's slipped for me. I still hope he makes the finals though.

My actual favorites now are Gabby, Trevor and Shangela. I know none are as polished as Charli (although Gabby is close), but I am always left smiling when they are done. I died laughing when Derek took his shirt off after Gabby's dance. I freaking love her! Gabby is so funny and weird I can't help liking her. Her joking with Alfonso and genuine excitement over her scores has made her a delight to me. And Trevor - he is what this show is about! Can a non dancer be taught to dance? And he is killing it to my eyes! What the heck was the horrible score????

Charli is excellent, but I just watch and then it's over. Every week, it's pretty, it's precise, it's intricate and difficult. I feel nothing. I FF through the judges because I just know a tongue bath is coming. Blech. Much like her mom, no personality, which is why I am rooting for the three above. I'll take passion over perfection any day, especially on this dumb show!

Daniel's dance is the one that stuck with me after it was over. I remember Nyle and Peta dancing without music, but this touched me. Maybe because the song was "Enjoy the Silence", by my favorite band when I was 18, from my favorite album of the nineties. Sometimes you can tell he can't hear the music, but this worked for me. I loved it. I got teary when Derek did. It made me thankful for being able to hear, something I take for granted every day.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Ilovepie

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Ilovepie said:

My actual favorites now are Gabby, Trevor and Shangela. I know none are as polished as Charli (although Gabby is close), but I am always left smiling when they are done. I died laughing when Derek took his shirt off after Shangela's dance. I freaking love her! Gabby is so funny and weird I can't help liking her. Her joking with Alfonso and genuine excitement over her scores has made her a delight to me. And Trevor - he is what this show is about! Can a non dancer be taught to dance? And he is killing it to my eyes! What the heck was the horrible score????

100% agree with this.

I almost want to vote for Trevor next week because I'd really like to see him in the finals, but I don't want to risk that blowing back and Shangela going. I think Gabby, Charli, and Wayne are fully safe so I fear Trevor staying would knock out Shangela. 

I'd like to see Gabby, Daniel, Shangela, and Trevor in the finals but there's no way Charli and Wayne don't make the finals so I'm only gonna get 2 of my faves. Oh well, better than nothing lol.

[boyznkatz]

I'm hoping for Gabby, Wayne, Daniel and Shangela in the finals. It does look like we are getting two dances next week. Yay!

The dark horse here might be Daniel. He has been near the bottom in scores several times, but never seems to be in the bottom two. Could he knock out a couple of contenders?

Edited November 9, 2022 by boyznkatz

[anonymiss]

Charli having to compliment Gabby and pretend it was anywhere near close was amusing and uncomfortable.  No one competing is near her pro level--nor should they be. I am happy just to see her dance.

I hope the finals are Shangela and Trevor, and anyone else I'm cool with watching,  just wouldn't be thrilled if s/he won. Oh and I was rooting for Wayne also but he's really suffered after getting sick and putting a lot of stress on his bad knee(s). It's influenced my enjoyment and anticipation of his performances.

Edited November 9, 2022 by anonymiss

[Ilovepie]

Presuming Wayne and Charli make the finals, I am hoping the other two are Shangela and Gabby. I do love Daniel and Trevor, but I think they've taken it as far as they can, and the other two are just better dancers. My personal favorite to win is Shangela. I have been most entertained by them this season. Gabby is great, but I don't need another Bachelorette to win again, and I don't like Val. I wouldn't mind Wayne winning either, but I am prepared to see Charli crowned winner though. Zzzzzz........

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, anonymiss said:

Oh and I was rooting for Wayne also but he's really suffered after getting sick and putting a lot of stress on his bad knee(s). It's influenced my enjoyment and anticipation of his performances.

I was rooting for Wayne too but I agree about his dances after getting sick.  He might be exhausted from his busy schedule or maybe it's his knee(s). It also seems like every dance has hip hop in it.  After awhile, it's not special anymore if you keep doing that.  Last week, Wayne and Witney should have done either a traditional contemporary or even contemporary with some staccato movements.  But that dance had more hip hop than contemporary.  They should have saved doing a hip hop number for the freestyle so that it would have more impact like Iman and Daniella did last year.

[White Dog]

3 hours ago, LadyMustang65 said:

I'm not buying that Mark put in a step they hadn't practiced.

You don’t have to believe me., you can see it on playback of Team Scream  even pros can have an unintentional brain fart 

[White Dog]

Dani and Sasha 

[DietCokeJunkie]

41 minutes ago, White Dog said:

Dani and Sasha 

LOVED watching that again! Thanks for posting!

[LadyMustang65]

2 hours ago, White Dog said:

You don’t have to believe me., you can see it on playback of Team Scream  even pros can have an unintentional brain fart 

Actually, no, I can't see it on the playback.  So I still think it's far more likely that Charli messed up than that Mark messed up.

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:39 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Because you can't predict what non-ringers can or can't do. Yes, this show is Dancing With The Stars. Yes, we really need way less ringers. But I also think we need a couple of decent dancers because what if we got twelve Vinnys? 

There's a VERY distinct difference between someone like Vinny and someone like Trevor. Vinny tried, but he was just not going to get better, and that's why we saw Koko dumb down the choreography. He was knocking out other dancers because of his fanbase. Which, yeah, that's part of the show, but we LEGIT saw what happens when a fanbase is too large ala Bobby Bones, one of the worst dancers of his season. See how Cody last season got to the finale despite being the weakest (and also catching COVID and the show deciding to try to keep him instead of respectfully eliminating him).

While someone like Trevor or even Iman last season who have no dance experience, start off weak, but you see them get better as the season goes on. 

Unfortunately, as nice as it would be to pinpoint those types of celebs pre-season, it's impossible to, so you can't just have all non-dancers and hope a handful of them are good enough to keep people invested.

Which is why I get why ringers exist...to an extent. But when you're picking competitive or professional dancers, or people with a lot of dance experience, it does become unfair.

Honestly, I was fine with how they got rid of Vinny, but only because I got Cody/Bobby Bones flashbacks (not so much Grocery Store Joe, since Joe left around this time too). Vinny was in real danger of getting to the finale and knocking out better dancers. Nice guy, I definitely became a fan of him due to his enthusiasm and support of other celebs, it was just his time to go.

All of this! Plus, there has to basically be cannon fodder for those first few weeks and some variety in casting to appeal to as wide a demo as possible. I highly doubt they're casting older celebs like Bo Derek or the Martin Kove types because they think they're going to win the whole shebang. 

On 11/8/2022 at 7:08 PM, White Dog said:

Well all I know is if Charli said “I’m a world class performer” she’d be getting dragged to tomorrow. Would she be able to reasonably say that? Maybe since she’s been on a show dancing with the Houghs. Wayne said it and it felt a bit off putting because what defines “world class” running around hosting game shows?   Are we supposed to be grateful this world class performer is slumming it on DWTS? he then went on to explain how he’s putting up performances while some others are technical dancers. It’s ironic because for me his Salsa was great technically but not his best performance.  I really don’t like it when contestants start defining themselves to voters, just let the voters decide.  I’m still on the Wayne Train and he’s wonderful. Hopefully it was just stress talking imho.

Does it really matter if Charli would have gotten dragged for it versus when someone else does it? She would have gotten dragged probably by people who just plain old don't like her. Plus, arrogance - like many things - is in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes it's based on how the person says it, context, etc. There were a couple of things Vinnie and Gabby said that I thought were a bit arrogant.  But, for me, that line from Wayne was't arrogant partly because of who he is and how he's been the whole season. I loved what he had to say when Alfonso asked him after the relay if he thought his great samba earlier this season gave him a leg-up over Heidi and without hesitation he said no. To me, that's not someone overly arrogant. I don't think he expects people to be grateful he's on the show or feels like he's slumming. That's a lot to take a way from one comment.

On 11/8/2022 at 9:12 PM, Sd601 said:

I haven’t voted for Charli since week one. 
 

But with some of the online hate she gets for being a ringer, I don’t mind. While she trained for years in dance, she obviously wasn’t good enough to pursue dance as a career. Who would have thought a silly little social media platform would bring such fame and opportunities? So here she is, now considered a “Star,” getting invited to dance on a National TV show. She seems to be working really hard—her dances are intricate, elegant, and polished. There’s definitely a lot of preparation on Charli and Mark’s part. I enjoy rewatching her dances and now, finally, wouldn’t be angry if she won. I’m still rooting for Wayne though. 

It doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't good enough. She's still pretty young. Maybe being a professional ballroom dancer wasn't what she wanted. And, if she's making 20 million in other ways, maybe she wants to continue doing what she's doing instead. Bottom line, for me, is while she might not have chosen dancing as her vocation (yet) she's still a professionally trained ballroom dancer and it feels a little unfair for her to not only compete against many without that background, but for her performances to be compared to theirs because of course she's always going to come out on top.

On 11/8/2022 at 11:18 PM, LadyMustang65 said:

If Charli said it, she'd get dragged because she's not a world class performer.  She's a highly trained competitive dancer.  Wayne is so much more than "running around hosting game shows."  He's a singer, he's performed on Broadway, he's acted in many movies and tv shows, he is also a voice actor for animated films, he hosts game shows, and he's a great comedic talent.  On Who's Line Is It Anyway, it's all improv.  There's a regular bit where he has to not only make up a song about some ridiculous topic on the spot, but he then has to sing it in a specific style or impersonate a certain singer.  And he does it week after week, year after year.  And he's been doing it for decades.  That's what it means to be a world class performer.  He can do it all, and he's got the bona fides to prove it.  I didn't feel any arrogance coming from him when he said it.  It was just a statement of fact.  Just my humble opinion anyway.

Agreed. Like I said before, there's a line between overconfidence and confidence. I think it's just fine to know that you're good at what you do and be proud of that.

12 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

Absolutely nobody is going to do this show anymore if they continue to make a mockery of this "competition" by deciding who they want in the finals. This show was fun when we got surprises like shock eliminations and winners we didn't expect. Not anymore. I was on the Iman train and was happy when he won, so I didn't expect it to be so predictable this season.

This is how it's ALWAYS been. A lot of times it does piss me off. I'm STILL mad about that one season ages ago where they did this special bonus dance to give 15 points to this actress Chelsea something and Ralph Macchio got the boot because of it. I'm still mad about them picking Ally Brooke over Vanderbeek, but, yeah, this is how it's always been. They just have a little more power now because of the judges' save. I don't always like the decisions they make, but overall, I never want to see a Bobby Bones situation again, so I consider the judges' save a necessary evil. I don't watch the show for surprise winners and shocking eliminations, especially when I'm rooting for someone and they're the shocking elimination. I think a lot of people might not have continued to do this show if they had to face the humiliation of losing to a Bobby Bones. Celebrities will continue to do the show because of the free publicity they still get by doing it.

Quote

Cool. I’ll take Mark’s word for it. No point in lying for some 18 year old brat. 

Isn't it possible he took the blame because that's just what pros do since they tend to not get penalized for pro screw-ups since it's the celeb who is supposed to be judged? That and/or he wanted to save her from embarrassment or thought she wouldn't take it well.

Edited November 10, 2022 by FilmTVGeek80

[White Dog]

Anything is possible, but there’s video. 

[LadyMustang65]

10 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Isn't it possible he took the blame because that's just what pros do since they tend to not get penalized for pro screw-ups since it's the celeb who is supposed to be judged? That and/or he wanted to save her from embarrassment or thought she wouldn't take it well.

That's my take on it.  Not the first time a pro has done that.  White Dog may well be right, but it isn't at all obvious to me when I watch the video the way WD says it is, and I tend to believe that Len knows what he's talking about.  He was right there in the ballroom just a few feet away.  In the end, though, it doesn't really matter.

[realdancemom]

10 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't good enough. She's still pretty young. Maybe being a professional ballroom dancer wasn't what she wanted. And, if she's making 20 million in other ways, maybe she wants to continue doing what she's doing instead. Bottom line, for me, is while she might not have chosen dancing as her vocation (yet) she's still a professionally trained ballroom dancer and it feels a little unfair for her to not only compete against many without that background, but for her performances to be compared to theirs because of course she's always going to come out on top.

Did Charli do ballroom competitions?  I thought she only did jazz and contemporary competitions like Jojo did when she was younger.  If she was trained in ballroom then it's definitely not fair.

I finally watched the relays last night.  I agreed with the judges.  Shangela brought back her lazy legs and feet.  But she did have better rhythm and brought the party.  Trevor and Vinny were bad but En Vogue sounded really good.  Wayne again brought the party while Heidi is too serious.  Plus I think she gets extra nervous doing these events because she had several missteps/pauses.  I remember how lost she looked during the Halloween team dance.

Charli and Gabby was the one that I wanted to talk about.  Gabby looks like the type of ringer that you would see on other seasons.  She had fun and danced well enough.  Charli really is a league of her own.  Mark had really complex choreography that Charli can handle.  I do want to see what Mark choreographs for their freestyle.  The problem for me is that she's a little too good if that makes sense.  Viewers want to see growth and excitement as scores get higher each week or a contestant has a breakthrough moment.  Charli was always technically excellent.  Her problem is showing emotion during dances and even outside of the dances.  She seems guarded like her mom but even Heidi showed more emotion in her packages.  I wouldn't mind if she wins since she is excellent but I wouldn't vote for her. 

[TVbitch]

I'm convinced Mark gets to pick his music. He and Charlie seem to get the perfect music for their dances every week. Blur Song 2 is iconic and perfect for their tango. Meanwhile Trevor gets the barbie song. 

I'm rooting for Shangela. I think Courtney Act was actually a better dancer on DWTS Australia, but Shangela is good and giving it her all and brings much needed life to the show. Courtney did a "very special dance" in which she came out of drag. I wonder is Shangela will do the same. 

I liked Pasha and Cheryl's dance, too. 

[White Dog]

22 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

wouldn't mind if she wins since she is excellent but I wouldn't vote for

She only wins if she gets votes. She likely won’t win and that’s why I’ve decided to support her if she dances like she has the last couple of weeks. She is the only one of all the contestants that doesn’t have to put hip hop or strutting or shirtless filler in her routines. It’s full on  ballroom dancing, it’s not basics there are difficult step sequences that she’s been given and I appreciate it as a refreshing change for this show. I’m really looking forward to her  Viennese Waltz and Paso Doble. She has that lightness and beautiful arms for VWaltz and she can bring the intensity for Paso. Dancing to Espana Cani Mark has got to be confident in her ability to do it in the traditional style, of course with a Mark signature.  With a double elimination looming I just hope we can see a Mark Ballas Freestyle 

Edited November 10, 2022 by White Dog

[peachmangosteen]

22 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I'm convinced Mark gets to pick his music. He and Charlie seem to get the perfect music for their dances every week.

Oh, he totally does.

Quote

Courtney did a "very special dance" in which she came out of drag. I wonder is Shangela will do the same. 

I've been wondering the same thing.

[LadyMustang65]

3 hours ago, White Dog said:

She only wins if she gets votes. She likely won’t win 

I don't understand why you think she's not getting the votes.  She's got 147 million followers on TikTok plus the ones who watch her reality tv show and follow her on Instagram.  Since you don't have to actually watch the show to vote, and she's asking her fans to vote, I would bet a substantial number of them are indeed voting for her.  During the elimination phase they call out the names in random order, so Charli having been the last or near last called safe doesn't mean anything at all.  It's manufactured drama to get people wondering if there'll be a "shock" elimination.  If she doesn't win, I think it will be because, like last season, when push came to shove, the voters rewarded the novice who grew tremendously during the course of the show and entertained them hugely while being nowhere near technically perfect over the trained dancer.  So Iman won instead of JoJo.  So it's not out of the realm of possibility that that could happen again this season, although it couldn't get any closer to the edge without going out.  But if even a small portion of her fanbase is voting, she should be unstoppable.  Bobby Bones was awful but had a huge fan base that gave him the win.  His fan base is tiny compared to the juggernaut that is Charli's fan base.  Bobby Bones has 1.2 million followers on Instagram.  Charli has 49 million followers on Instagram.  Bobby has less than 1 million followers on TikTok while Charli has 147 million.  It's not over til it's over, and we've seen some pretty bizarre things happen on the show, but I honestly believe - and have since the day they announced the cast - that everyone else is dancing for second place.  

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I'm rooting for Shangela. I think Courtney Act was actually a better dancer on DWTS Australia, but Shangela is good and giving it her all and brings much needed life to the show. Courtney did a "very special dance" in which she came out of drag. I wonder is Shangela will do the same. 

I'll be very surprised if she does.  Shangela is who the audience has fallen in love with and is rooting for.  

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

I don't understand why you think she's not getting the votes.  She's got 147 million followers on TikTok plus the ones who watch her reality tv show and follow her on Instagram.  Since you don't have to actually watch the show to vote, and she's asking her fans to vote, I would bet a substantial number of them are indeed voting for her.

JoJo had 50+million followers too. She still landed in the bottom two for various reasons. Having high amount of followers doesn't mean anything if they're not voting, and to be fair, we don't know where anyone outside of Trevor's fanbase stands because nobody's been in danger. We're going to find that out this week. So we don't know where Charli's fanbase stands. 

A good chunk of Charli's fanbase won't vote, or can't vote because a) They're too young to vote without parental permission; b) They're likely international followers who don't have the access to vote since they don't live in US/Canada; and c) Her fans are probably skewed younger, and her younger fanbase have grown up in a very different time period of social media, where voting live every week for two months is not something they're used to. Even with her telling them to vote, there's a decent amount who still would get bored, get distracted, and not go to the site at a specific time every week to vote. There are various reasons why Charli could, or could not, win. We can't say for sure she's going to win when there ARE a lot of contenders she's competing again.

Can she win? 100%. She probably has the most likely shot to win and I definitely think she would take it. Is it a guarantee? Absolutely not. We've seen a LOT of ringers like Charli lose because many fans don't WANT the ringers to win. It's kind of unfortunate the same people kept landing in the bottom this season because we REALLY don't know where five out of the top six are in terms of votes. Previous seasons, we'd have an idea because the bottom two would be a bit more spread out. We'd at least have a couple of people in the top six to hit the bottom two. Here, only one of them has.

[boyznkatz]

There is no way Charli doesn't win. Even if just one percent of her followers vote, that's almost a million and a half people. Everyone else is getting probably a few thousand? 

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

There is no way Charli doesn't win. Even if just one percent of her followers vote, that's almost a million and a half people. Everyone else is getting probably a few thousand? 

I really doubt that many are voting. I think Charli could definitely win, I just can't be so confident, knowing the majority of Charli's fanbase are likely young kids (it's different when they're spam voting in a short amount of time vs having 20 votes each week for 10 weeks and only voting in a less than two hour voting period) and knowing that she's ALSO competing against two MAJOR fanbases, one of whom has been doing this for years for DWTS, and the other hitting a major milestone in being the first drag queen on this show with a community heavily involved in social media (Bachelor Nation, Drag Race). 

[boyznkatz]

I would think Charli's fans being kids or Gen Z would benefit her with the show being on Disney. People like Wayne and Gabby and Heidi would have been popular on ABC, but I'm not sure their fans watch Disney. I guess we'll just have to see. I'm really curious to know who is watching and voting.

[LadyMustang65]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

A good chunk of Charli's fanbase won't vote, or can't vote because a) They're too young to vote without parental permission;

Almost every young person these days has a cell phone, and they don't need parental permission to text their votes, which is the way I would expect them to vote.  I think you underestimate how fanatic the younger people can be about things.  I would bet she sends out a tweet or makes an instagram post every Monday night reminding people to vote and telling them how to do it.  They don't even need to watch the show.  Just remember to text her name 10 times between 8 and 10 pm. 

In any event, you could well turn out to be right, and I would not be at all unhappy about that.  Charli is the best dancer this season - the best dancer of any season - in terms of technical ability.  But the level of training and experience she has had (also with JoJo last season - although I found her much more personable and fun to watch than Charli, I wasn't voting for her because I just couldn't get behind her as a contestant given how much training she had had and Charli has upped the ante by quite a bit) makes her a big nope for me as a contestant.  Cheerleaders and Disney kids who have all had at least some dance training as part of their skill set and ice skaters, gymnasts, boy band members . . . that's fine with me.  They have a bit of an advantage, but it's not really that big of one.  And a cast full of Master Ps, Tucker Carlsons, and Kenny Maynes would be truly painful to watch.  <lol> But Charli has been dancing almost her entire life, is highly trained in multiple genres, and was very successful as a competitor in amateur competitions.  I watch So You Think You Can Dance for that.  I watch DWTS to see people learn to dance, to grow, to improve, to get better.  There's none of that with Charli.  She started out on the top rung of the ladder, and she's still there.  There are enough pros on the show; they don't need to bring one in to compete.  I'm hoping this is just a one-off to entice Mark to come back for a season and that the show runners back off in future seasons from casting contestants as highly trained as her and JoJo.  I'm guessing they were hoping to expand their audience, but it doesn't seem to be working, so as an experiment, it needs to end.

[babyhouseman]

I'm not thinking Charli is going to automatically win. Wayne's a well-known household name, and there's bachelor nation. 

Wayne does seem more tired. I know he has a busy schedule. I looked up his age, and he's 50, 5 days older than me. I can confirm at 50, your energy starts lagging. lol

[boyznkatz]

10 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

I'm hoping this is just a one-off to entice Mark to come back for a season and that the show runners back off in future seasons from casting contestants as highly trained as her and JoJo.  I'm guessing they were hoping to expand their audience, but it doesn't seem to be working, so as an experiment, it needs to end.

I'm guessing she was cast because she has a lot of young followers and that's exactly what they want because the show is on Disney. Older contestants worked on ABC, but they need to expand their audience to survive on Disney. Somehow, I doubt most of the people age 40+ who used to watch on ABC subscribed to Disney+ to watch this one show. I just happened to get it a couple of years ago for my kid who wanted to watch Hamilton for school, and I never cancelled it. However, I doubt I would have subscribed if I didn't already have it. I do like it on Disney, but I don't think their audience is as huge as it once was.

[FilmTVGeek80]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really doubt that many are voting. I think Charli could definitely win, I just can't be so confident, knowing the majority of Charli's fanbase are likely young kids (it's different when they're spam voting in a short amount of time vs having 20 votes each week for 10 weeks and only voting in a less than two hour voting period) and knowing that she's ALSO competing against two MAJOR fanbases, one of whom has been doing this for years for DWTS, and the other hitting a major milestone in being the first drag queen on this show with a community heavily involved in social media (Bachelor Nation, Drag Race). 

💯💯 As soon as I heard her casting and how many followers she has, my automatic assumption was she would win. But thinking about it further, it’s not guaranteed for many of the reasons you mentioned. Charli is not the first person who has a massive following on SM who didn’t win. I think her popularity has grown (inexplicably to me) since she was on the show, but Kim Kardashian was still massively popular online when she was on, but she still didn’t make it far. Derek was paired with some YouTube influencer with a huge following and they finished fourth (and that’s with her fan base and Derek’s combined.) As you pointed out, JoJo not only didn’t win last year, but at one point was in the bottom two. And yet, she won the People’s Choice award that year. Her fans got her that, but not the win on the show. If Charli’s fanbase votes consistently, yeah, it will probably be a blow out for her, but that’s still an unanswered question - if they are voting for her. They certainly didn’t seem to be voting for her mom.

7 hours ago, White Dog said:

She only wins if she gets votes. She likely won’t win and that’s why I’ve decided to support her if she dances like she has the last couple of weeks. She is the only one of all the contestants that doesn’t have to put hip hop or strutting or shirtless filler in her routines. It’s full on  ballroom dancing, it’s not basics there are difficult step sequences that she’s been given and I appreciate it as a refreshing change for this show. I’m really looking forward to her  Viennese Waltz and Paso Doble. She has that lightness and beautiful arms for VWaltz and she can bring the intensity for Paso. Dancing to Espana Cani Mark has got to be confident in her ability to do it in the traditional style, of course with a Mark signature.  With a double elimination looming I just hope we can see a Mark Ballas Freestyle 

Well, of course she doesn’t need to do the other stuff (not that there’s anything wrong with some of that stuff) but she’s a trained dancer. So, yeah, she can do things the others can’t because they don’t have the training she does.

[LadyMustang65]

44 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I'm guessing she was cast because she has a lot of young followers and that's exactly what they want because the show is on Disney. Older contestants worked on ABC, but they need to expand their audience to survive on Disney. Somehow, I doubt most of the people age 40+ who used to watch on ABC subscribed to Disney+ to watch this one show. I just happened to get it a couple of years ago for my kid who wanted to watch Hamilton for school, and I never cancelled it. However, I doubt I would have subscribed if I didn't already have it. I do like it on Disney, but I don't think their audience is as huge as it once was.

One of my adult children subscribes to Disney+ so when Hamilton was streaming, they gave us their login information so we could see it and told us to use it whenever we wanted.  In exchange we gave them our login information to Paramount.  I might have subscribed to Disney for a few months to watch DWTS, but then I would probably cancel and subscribe again the next season.  There's not enough other stuff I'd want to watch on Disney to make it worth having it all year round.  But I do like not having commercials!!

[White Dog]

11 hours ago, White Dog said:

Well she’s made no secret of her training 

Mark is giving Charli the tough stuff though I don’t think she has training in the style. Imagine if she made every dance a highlight of her ballet training? 

 I’ll take actual Ballroom and Latin dancing over hip hop on repeat any day.  

[realdancemom]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:02 AM, White Dog said:

She only wins if she gets votes. She likely won’t win and that’s why I’ve decided to support her if she dances like she has the last couple of weeks. She is the only one of all the contestants that doesn’t have to put hip hop or strutting or shirtless filler in her routines. It’s full on  ballroom dancing, it’s not basics there are difficult step sequences that she’s been given and I appreciate it as a refreshing change for this show. I’m really looking forward to her  Viennese Waltz and Paso Doble. She has that lightness and beautiful arms for VWaltz and she can bring the intensity for Paso. Dancing to Espana Cani Mark has got to be confident in her ability to do it in the traditional style, of course with a Mark signature.  With a double elimination looming I just hope we can see a Mark Ballas Freestyle 

Whether she gets votes or not is speculation.  So I could vote for her to get in the finals since I do want to see a freestyle from Mark and Charli.  For the finals, I usually vote for the best freestyle that night. 

[Ilovepie]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:31 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I really doubt that many are voting. I think Charli could definitely win, I just can't be so confident, knowing the majority of Charli's fanbase are likely young kids (it's different when they're spam voting in a short amount of time vs having 20 votes each week for 10 weeks and only voting in a less than two hour voting period) and knowing that she's ALSO competing against two MAJOR fanbases, one of whom has been doing this for years for DWTS, and the other hitting a major milestone in being the first drag queen on this show with a community heavily involved in social media (Bachelor Nation, Drag Race). 

I completely agree with this. I am the parent of 2 Gen Z teens, both of whom are very into Tik Tok, have access to D+ and could give a crap about voting for a tv show contestant, no matter if it was someone they liked. Even with the move to Disney+, I think this show's viewership is old. That being said, my LGBTQ daughter has watched on and off with me this season and she is rooting for Shangela, not Charli ;-p

I think it ultimately comes down to whether the regular viewers of this show embrace Charli's ringer status and vote for her just because she's the best dancer. I don't think it will be because of her Tik Tok status if she wins.

[RomanKat]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:27 PM, Melonie77 said:

One thing to take some comfort in regarding Charli (besides the fact that one of the tiktokers is gone now) - I think some of the favoritism is due to Mark. Maybe the show is hoping to draw him back into the fold and if his win this season succeeds in getting him to work as a pro again then it would be worth it in my opinion.

I suspect Mark, with his history of "shocking eliminations" on DWTS, returned in part because the judges now decide eliminations. WRT mirrorball trophies at this point in his career, he'd probably prefer Emmy nominations and trophies.

On 11/8/2022 at 1:38 PM, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I love Daniel and I think he really is inspiring and doing a lot of good, but something about his whole presentation last night put me off. Like, I feel for him and what he went through with his birth mother, but I didn't get why they were talking about it last night.... almost like they wanted a sob story to get more votes....Nyle DiMarco also did a dance where he danced a portion of it without music.

The game plan to eliminate Vinny this week appeared to be:  Concede that Heidi and Trevor will finish bottom 3 after having twice been bottom 2. Down-score Vinny as much as possible. Up-score the remaining celebrities.

I didn't think any of the performances deserved 10's this week, except maybe Charli based solely on technical merit. Daniel got some extra help between jazz (an invitation to upscore along with contemporary) and the sob story. As for the silent part of the routine, it was also done on SCD by last year's winner, a deaf actress. Video link: Rose Ayling-Ellis and Giovanni Pernice dance Couple's Choice - BBC Strictly 2021

On 11/8/2022 at 8:12 PM, Sd601 said:

But with some of the online hate she gets for being a ringer, I don’t mind.

While there's always been an anti-ringer bias on this forum, I feel like there was a bit more balance between anti- and pro-ringer opinions during past seasons. Maybe that's a segment of forum participation that we lost in the move to Disney+. <shrug>

On 11/9/2022 at 1:40 PM, LadyMustang65 said:

Maybe I'm being unfair to Charli, but she lost any chance of making me care about her when Len mentioned her missing a step in the group dance, and she looked like she wanted to murder him and Mark had to jump in and pretend he was the one who messed up rather than "perfect Charli."  

This made me go back to re-watch her reaction. I saw some teenage awkwardness with an attempt at humor, but I didn't see murderous intent, lol. Is it possible that you were thrown by the "possessed" cosmetic contact lenses she was wearing that night?

On 11/10/2022 at 2:15 PM, boyznkatz said:

There is no way Charli doesn't win. Even if just one percent of her followers vote, that's almost a million and a half people. Everyone else is getting probably a few thousand? 

As others have noted, social media stars have not done particularly well with voters in the past. At this point, she is likely making the finals. Even if she lands in the bottom 3, the judges likely advance her over anyone else. Assuming the same double elimination process of the past 3 seasons, the only way she's eliminated is if she's at the very bottom.

I'm OK with that, and with Mark getting more tries at Emmy-worthy choreography. Charli's technique is worth watching, even if expected from a trained dancer and even if the performance skill falls short. However, I don't expect her to win. Even at the start of the season, Wayne Brady seemed the most likely DWTS fan favorite, while Gabby had the most proven DWTS fanbase. I'm hoping Shangela makes the final. She's been consistently entertaining, and is the most unique remaining star wrt DWTS history.

On 11/10/2022 at 4:54 PM, babyhouseman said:

Wayne does seem more tired. I know he has a busy schedule. I looked up his age, and he's 50, 5 days older than me. I can confirm at 50, your energy starts lagging. lol

So true. :-) Both Wayne and Trevor have been affected by injuries, as well. And while Trevor is only 44, that's still relatively "old" for DWTS. Over 40's tend to hit a wall as the show moves to two performances a week, so both have acquitted themselves well. On that note, I'd like to give Heidi some appreciation. She had the same insecurities and difficulty connecting to the audience that other over-40 females have had on the show. But she did well for a 50-year-old woman on DWTS, and should feel proud of her effort.

Edited November 12, 2022 by RomanKat

[LadyMustang65]

16 hours ago, RomanKat said:

While there's always been an anti-ringer bias on this forum, I feel like there was a bit more balance between anti- and pro-ringer opinions during past seasons. Maybe that's a segment of forum participation that we lost in the move to Disney+. <shrug>

This made me go back to re-watch her reaction. I saw some teenage awkwardness with an attempt at humor, but I didn't see murderous intent, lol. Is it possible that you were thrown by the "possessed" cosmetic contact lenses she was wearing that night?

I could be wrong, but my feeling is more that it's the absolute ringeryness of this ringer.  It's one thing to have been a cheerleader or a back-up dancer whose choreography is limited in scope generally.  It's quite another to have studied at an elite dance studio almost your entire life and competed very successfully for more than a decade.  I think for many that's just a bridge too far.  She is for all intents and purposes a professional dancer.  She gets paid to dance, including have danced with Derek on one of his tv specials.  JoJo was too well trained for many, and Charli takes that even further. There are ringers and then there are RINGERS!  Some of her champions here have made that point themselves by talking about how difficult the choreography is she's being given and how she's doing things no other contestant could ever have done.  Well, yeah.  She's a professional dancer.  This should not surprise anyone.

As for the look, you could be right.  I haven't gone back and re-watched it.  I just remember thinking at the time that if looks could kill, Len would be dead.  Then Mark claiming it was his mistake kind of reinforced my belief she was angry.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by LadyMustang65
I forgot I wanted to mention there was similar bias against JoJo, but she was more personable than Charli, so the backlash was a bit tempered by that.

[peachmangosteen]

18 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

She gets paid to dance, including have danced with Derek on one of his tv specials.

Wait, what?! I mean, the show has never been truly on the up and up but that is ridiculous lol.