Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[retrograde]

Twitter and con/media appearances are the only window into the actor's lives that we have, but they are a very, very tiny fraction of these people's existence. They are colleagues who spend hours and hours together in each other's company every day. Frankly, I'd be pretty surprised if any of them care or think that much about what the other does on social media or thinks about the show's storylines. Beyond blatant hostility, I'd be cautious about reading anything into their interactions on these platforms. I can only imagine what warped view you'd have of my relationships with my colleagues and I if you went via Twitter and what you see of us out in public.

[Curio]

Wow. I've been involved with some crazy fandom drama (it's why I had to quit the Supernatural fandom), but I honestly can't believe a Twitter outcry ended up changing a convention schedule for real. That's a first for me. I've seen negative reactions to characters from the fandom sometimes impacting the show (hello Greg and Tamara), but never something so menial like a convention photo op session. Once needs to hire a better social PR person or something because they need to monitor situations like this or tell people like Jennifer that it's okay to completely ignore the Twitter drama because it only amounts to 0.005% of the show's actual viewership.
 

As to the reasons why there was no SQ - I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if it was because the actresses don't get along. [...] In the 4 years Jen and Lana have been filming together, and they film together a fair amount, we've never seen them hug or even stand especially close when not filming, when that happens all the time with Colin, Rose, Ginny...

So I'm not the only one who's gotten that vibe. I wouldn't go as far as saying Jen and Lana don't like each other—I'm sure they're friendly with each other on set and get along very well professionally—but I've never gotten the feeling that they're super close friends outside of the work environment. Which is absolutely fine, I also have plenty of co-workers who I get along with at work but I'm not close enough to grab drinks with after the long day is over. But I've gotten the vibe just from behind the scenes videos on set, photos of the cast hanging together outside of work, how Jen and Lana are rarely seated next to each other at conventions, and from other interviews that Jen appears to be a lot closer to Ginny, Josh, Colin, Michael (when he was actually on the show), and Rose than she's ever been to Lana. But that's just my over-analytical, bored people watcher, body language reader coming out. Who knows, I could be completely wrong, too.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Especially taking pictures with people who... well, you've seen how they have been acting on Twitter... those people and Lana?

Oh gosh, can you imagine the kind of people she'd be having to take pictures with who'd pay for the SQ photo? If I were her, I'd avoid that like the plague, just because it would mean having to get close to the same people who spew that much hate at her on Twitter. Not that they'd have the nerve to be that nasty to her face, but still ...

[YaddaYadda]

Oh gosh, can you imagine the kind of people she'd be having to take pictures with who'd pay for the SQ photo?

 

I think that's pretty unfair.  For some people, it's just about taking a picture with Jen and Lana, period.  People will ship what they wanna ship, doesn't mean they're all off their rockers or feel entitled to something.  I think that vast majority of SQ shippers know that Emma and Regina are not happening and just take what they can.  I think Jen is smart enough to not put everyone in the same basket to know that most people aren't on Twitter watching whatever she writes on social media, ready to jump down her throat and it really just always seems to be the same people over and over.

[Shanna Marie]

Certainly not everyone getting the Jen and Lana photo op would be one of the bad apples, but if you're trying to avoid face-to-face encounters with your online abusers, doing that op probably wouldn't be a great idea because odds are that of the people willing to shell out more than $100 for a photo, you're going to get the most fanatical, and that likely means at least a few of the people she'd have to get physically close to and smile with would be the ones who spew such hate in her direction, and the really unsettling thing is that she would have no way of knowing which people were those (unless they acted up in person). That's where the bad apples ruin things for everyone because it would be risky or at least uncomfortable to take the chance. If 90% of your online abuse comes from people who very vocally ship SQ, would you do any activity that would predominantly draw people with that interest? At least with broader group things or with joint efforts with other cast members, the pool of interested people would be a lot wider or a different demographic, lowering the odds of bad apple encounters. A rabid SQer who hates both Emma and Hook isn't likely to pay for a photo op with Jen and Colin, for instance, and there are more likely to be a lot more general interest fans going for the bigger group pictures.

[Serena]

Exactly. Plus, if (like we've speculated) Jen is more comfortable with Colin, even if someone at their photoshoot (like a crazy CS fan, or a SQ who bought the photo just to tell them CS supports rape culture) acts out, she may be more confident that Colin would have her back, compared to Lana, who may not want to upset her fanbase. She has never called them to task for anything. 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Serena

[Shanna Marie]

It is rather ironic that the same people who spend so much time spewing hate at Jen over SQ are then shocked! that she doesn't schedule a SQ photo op. It's like "we hate you, it's all your fault that we aren't getting what we want in the show, you're homophobic and a slut -- why don't you want to do a photo op for us?"

[october]

I suppose it makes sense then that these people are such Regina stans. Like her they'll attack people then play the victim card when the targets of their abuse don't want anything to do with them.

[mjgchick]

Has anyone read this?

 

http://wordofthenerdonline.com/2015/05/tv-news-fans-cross-line/

 

This is just embarrassing.

[pezgirl7]

Embarrassing for SQers. I do feel for those SQers that had no part in it though. When some CSers do something embarrassing, I wouldn't want to be lumped in with them. But one difference I've seen between the the two fandoms is that CSers seem more likely to call out the BS in their own fandom, almost apologizing for the bad apples, and trying to fight the negativity with positivity. I thought it was a well written article, and hope that some of the show runners see it, if they weren't already fully aware of what happened.

[sharky]

Eh, it's nothing those of us who already were following this drama didn't know. It still sucks ass though.

[Shanna Marie]

I think if I were a producer on this show, I'd get my stubborn on and refuse to write any scenes between Regina and Emma, only if they're part of an overall group, just to spite the bullies (and then develop an actual gay relationship involving someone else entirely, so they wouldn't be able to make the homophobia accusation). Unfortunately, these producers seem a bit too enamored of the idea of Regina and Emma as being so similar that they must be friends and seem to enjoy teasing/catering to the loonies, which isn't helping. There's just something warped when people involved with the show can't discuss or do anything else regarding an actual canon relationship from the show for fear of fans of a non-canon relationship freaking out.

[Souris]

I literally just gave that brave writer a standing ovation in front of my computer, LOL. You know the SQ fans will come after her (which will only prove her point). It's only embarrassing for the bullies who did it. If the rational portion of the SQ fan base had taken the bullies to task in the past, like I see when CS or OQ fans cross the line, this wouldn't have happened like it did.

 

I'm just so happy somebody had the cojones to write an online article about it, even if it's just a random geek entertainment site.

[Emma]

I literally just gave that brave writer a standing ovation in front of my computer, LOL.

I'm just so happy somebody had the cojones to write an online article about it, even if it's just a random geek entertainment site.

Me too.

[Lieutenant]

That article is aces, and I feel it needs to go around the OUAT fandom a few dozen times.  Everyone ought to read it - SQers especially.  

 

Embarrassing for SQers. I do feel for those SQers that had no part in it though. When some CSers do something embarrassing, I wouldn't want to be lumped in with them. But one difference I've seen between the the two fandoms is that CSers seem more likely to call out the BS in their own fandom, almost apologizing for the bad apples, and trying to fight the negativity with positivity. 

I don't feel bad for them.  Unfortunately, any attention is good attention for most of them.  Like you said, I've seen CS shippers take their fellow shipmates to the mat pretty hard before (esp. when it comes to Colin/Jen shipping. Ugh.), and I'm glad of it.  I feel like this should have been done a loooong time ago within SQ's own bubble.  But it wasn't dealt with, and now the whole show's fandom gets to wade through this shit over EVERY. DAMN. THING.  I understand not everyone can be brought to heel, and there are always gonna be jerks, but SQ shippers have lost their grip on reality as a whole, imo.  I'm pretty much done pussyfooting around trying to placate the few good ones just so they don't get their feelings hurt getting lumped in w/the crazies.  Don't like it? Clean up your ship, folks. Until then, hope you like being the fandom pariah. */end rant*

[OnceUponAJen]

Great article. It sums the situation up nicely. Thanks for the link!

[Selina K]

I keep getting stuck on 'we just need an explanation.' Isn't the explanation 'your ship is not an actual thing on this show?' I just dont get this whole thing.

[Serena]

"We just want an explanation" means "We just want someone to blame, preferably JMo"

[FurryFury]

A comment from that article:

Where is the hate? You know like the hate that SQers get daily with slurs and swearwords and actual threats and demeaning words like 'crackship' 'fanfiction' etc.?

 

Wow, so "crackship" is a demeaning word? Fanfiction is a demeaning word? I really have no idea in which world this people are living in.

 

I think if I were a producer on this show, I'd get my stubborn on and refuse to write any scenes between Regina and Emma, only if they're part of an overall group, just to spite the bullies

 

I concur. This is basically what the writers of Teen Wolf did with Sterek back when it exploded in popularity.

[sharky]

But there's a difference between asking for an explanation and what they did. Just looking at the initial response to the announcement on Facebook, here are a few choice comments:

 

"They are the main characters of the show, how is that they don't have a photo op together?? This is insulting!! Most of us are going to the Con to meet them both, and we can't even get a pic of them together?? WOW."

"Lana and Colin (Regina and Hook) didn't even share lines. It makes zero sense for them to have a duo photo op. Jen and Lana are the leading actresses, Emma sacrificed herself for Regina but God forbid there to be a photo op of the two of them! And just to be really sure that there's no homo, don't even make the group complete and exclude Jen! That would be really bad if they would just breathe the same air!"

"seriously?!! lana & jen are the main leads in the show & they dont even get duo photo-op?!!! wtf!! lana/colin & jen/vic tht doesnt even make sense... god forbid tht lana & jen should be in the same room breathing the same air... this is so stupid there should be a lan/jen photo-op people would pay more for tht just saying"

 

And then there is was this delusional comment: "Jen said on Facebook that she didn't agree to pairing photo ops, but that she will do personal and the group photo op." No, she said she wasn't going to do any pairing photos. She didn't say she hadn't agreed to them -- in fact, she likely had to agree to which ones she wanted before they even announced the pairings.

 

And those are just the ones I picked because I was too lazy to translate the French comments.

 

As for the article posted above, the SQers are already finger pointing and saying the writer is just a Captain Swan fan who doesn't like Lana. I can definitely see the bias in that article, but I can also see the truth so, you know, maybe this would be a good time for reflection in that fandom.

 

ETA: Wait, so now "fanfiction" is an insulting word? I will add that to my list of words I can't use, including "Savior Queen" and whatever new terms I don't know about yet.

Edited May 26, 2015 by sharky

[Curio]

I had to laugh at this exchange on Twitter:

 

Monica ‏@OncersSource  10h10 hours ago
@gregchris123 @TheNerdOnline everyone witnessed hate but no one can produce proof of it... I would never hate on JMO and wouldn't allow it

Captain swan is love @gregchris123 

@OncersSource @TheNerdOnline

@Swan_Queen69 @Xivent @NotSoEvilRegal Stop with Homophobia Xivent Fcking Hittler!

Monica ‏@OncersSource  9h9 hours ago
@gregchris123 @TheNerdOnline they're username says enough about them... Where is the proof of Jen getting hate tho!!

 

So, showing proof of someone sending hate to Xivents isn't enough proof. Apparently, there has to be screenshots of only Jen receiving hate.

 

You know what would be pretty hilarious? If somehow @midnight somehow got a whiff of this story and poked fun of it on their show. I could see Chris Hardwick having a fun time trying to dissect what the hell happened with this fandom drama. Someone should tweet him the article that was posted above.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Curio

[Amerilla]

And then there is was this delusional comment: "Jen said on Facebook that she didn't agree to pairing photo ops, but that she will do personal and the group photo op." No, she said she wasn't going to do any pairing photos. She didn't say she hadn't agreed to them -- in fact, she likely had to agree to which ones she wanted before they even announced the pairings.

 

What she said on FB was:

 

I am so looking forward to the fairytale convention in Paris. I love Paris and I love ONCE UPON A TIME. In order to keep it all loving and drama free I have told them I will be doing a photo op with the whole cast and then a photo op on my own. I have not agreed to any pairings. I want it to be good clean fun for everyone. I love Emma, I love the show, I love the whole cast. We have the best job in the world and we are so grateful for all of the fans and their support. I look forward to meeting everyone that makes it to Paris. ‪#‎bestfansintheworld‬

 

The confusing thing to me about the way she's phrasing things is whether she's saying that she initially agreed to pairings and changed her mind because of the DRAMA, or whether the Paris con misrepresented things and she had not ever agreed to pairings, or if this is all just a misunderstanding where her people and the Xivents people weren't clear with each other.

 

This is a prime example of why you let your PR people do you talking for you. 

[Curio]

I interpreted Jen's statement as her saying from this point forward, she does not agree to do any pairing photos. I suppose it's possible she had absolutely no hand in choosing what her schedule would be like for the convention, but it seems unlikely. As Jennifer's PR/agent/coordinator person, wouldn't you at least run that kind of thing by her and ask, "Hey, I'm signing you up for those photo sessions in Paris. Are you cool with doing one with Colin, Victoria, and a solo shot?" It would seem very unprofessional on their part if they never bothered to ask Jen a basic question like that, which makes me think Jen knew about the schedule before the drama exploded.

[Serena]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they told Jen something like, "okay, so your schedule allows for you to do two pairings photos. You can chose between Colin, Victoria, and Lana, which ones should I sign you up for?". Without thinking of the potential drama ahead, she chose the two people she's closest to, Colin and Victoria. 

Either that, or it was a schedule done to maximize the time available. For example (I'm making this up):

from 8-9: Jen solo pics, Lana/Colin/Victoria group pics

from 9-10: Colin/Lana and Jen/Victoria

from 10-11: Jen/Colin and Lana/Victoria

etc etc...

 

I can only hope that in the future, there will be a con where Jen and Colin are attending and Lana isn't, so CS fan may get their photos.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Serena

[sharky]

Ah Amerilla, thanks for the clarification. Still seems weird. Perhaps you're right that the PR people did the work for her ahead of time. I wonder if it was ABC and maybe they didn't want the Swan Queen pairing, which is why they didn't agree to it and why Xivents probably couldn't say anything.

 

So, showing proof of someone sending hate to Xivents isn't enough proof. Apparently, there has to be screenshots of only Jen receiving hate.

There is quite a bit of this going on in the SQ fandom right now. You bring them proof and it's all, "Yea, but those are trolls," or "Yea, but show me specific threats that say 'Jennifer Morrison' in them because there are alot of Jens out there and you can't be sure who they're talking about." Seriously, this screenshot was posted on tumblr:

 

And someone responded with "Well, I think that was a troll," Are you serious?

 

I can only hope that in the future, there will be a con where Jen and Colin are attending and Lana isn't, so CS fan may get their photos.

Oh that's so cute. You think that will end the drama. How adorable. ;) ;) ;) ;) Seriously, it will just make the SQers send tweets tagged #NoHomo to the organizers because the con so hates the idea of two women being together that they couldn't even be bothered to invite Lana. And then Lana being Lana, she of course will never go on social media to clarify that, you know, she had other plans and a life outside of the show. And even if she did that, the SQers would then blame the organizers for purposely having the con on a weekend that Lana couldn't attend because, again, they're homophobic. Does that sound about right?

Edited May 26, 2015 by sharky

[Dani-Ellie]

See, now, that shit is scary. It may be vague and implied but that is an actual threat against the safety of all the people at the convention.

[sharky]

Dani-Ellie, that's not a threat. That's just a troll. It shouldn't be taken serious, you know? What's wrong with you? ;) Maybe we should ask the SQ fandom to send everyone a list of who is a troll so all of us know when someone is joking.

 

[And I am sorry for all the sarcasm I'm throwing in this thread. I just can't deal with this nonsense otherwise.]

[Amerilla]

Still seems weird. Perhaps you're right that the PR people did the work for her ahead of time. I wonder if it was ABC and maybe they didn't want the Swan Queen pairing, which is why they didn't agree to it and why Xivents probably couldn't say anything.

Yeah, the whole thing is just weird. What's interesting to me is that Jen made this statement *herself* and a full month before the con. Why not just have Xievnts issue a revised schedule? Why risk negatively impacting ticket sales, since there are SQers and CSers who might decide to save their Euros if they aren't going to be able to get those photos? I suspect we'll never know.

I doubt ABC played much role, though. They've always been pretty cheerful about putting Lana and Jen near each other in promo art and commercials.

[RedKeep]

I can't imagine how ABC would be able to influence what happens or doesn't happen at a small con that's by no means an official promotional event. SDCC for example is an entirely different matter, of course, But we're talking a small, European based convention. Many genre actors who are into cons appear at half a dozen or more small scale conventions throughout the year and the networks would be extremely busy if they tried to keep track of every castmember's personal con schedule and every photo op they may participate in. I don't see that happening for practical reasons alone.

[RadioGirl27]

As for the article posted above, the SQers are already finger pointing and saying the writer is just a Captain Swan fan who doesn't like Lana. I can definitely see the bias in that article, but I can also see the truth so, you know, maybe this would be a good time for reflection in that fandom.

Of course, when the article is critical to them, it is biased. But if it's an article about how great Regina is and how she has to be the hero in season 5 and written by a SQ shipper, then it is great journalist. I can't with them.

Anyway, the article was great and a good summary of the situation.

Edited May 26, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe if they're ignored and not given anymore importance than they already have, they'll just go away.  They're like a bad rash, the more you scratch, the more annoying it is.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe Jen should take a twitter break as well. That's giving in to trolls in a way as well, but at least she won't be bombarded with hate and negativity.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe Jen should take a twitter break as well. That's giving in to trolls in a way as well, but at least she won't be bombarded with hate and negativity.

 

Or she could just do what Colin does.  Retweet stuff and ignore the rest.  If there's a block button, use it.  I get that JMo is this super nice, super positive person who wants to spread that, but the human race is really not all that great.  I'm not saying give up, but you shouldn't just stand in front of the firing squad either and just take it.

[sharky]

I think part of the problem is that this spilled over from Twitter onto her Facebook page and the organizer's Facebook page, which took the worst of it. I can see her trying to take some of the crap off of them by writing what she did on Facebook. Still doesn't make it right.

 

And yea, it gets frustrating when Colin only tweets responses like "Hello to Brazil!" or stupid stuff from fans begging for a "boom" or whatever. But it also seems like he knows how to just be the silent type who walks away. I think that's why the link he retweeted a few weeks ago about how to deal with bullies on the Internet actually spoke volumes about what he does to try and deal with the crazies.

[RadioGirl27]

Maybe if they're ignored and not given anymore importance than they already have, they'll just go away.  They're like a bad rash, the more you scratch, the more annoying it is.

Nah, that's not going to happen. A&E have a big responsibility in the actual situation, because, after saying that SQ was never going to happen, instead of just ignoring them, they gave them wings with the "we respect all ships" and the use of the Swan Queen tag in Twitter or with episodes like 4x05 (among other stuff that happened this season). The marketing department and even the actresses are also responsible, mainly Lana, who has been queerbaiting since day 1, but also Jen. Everytime someone involved with the show tries to appease them, like when Lana and Jen took the pic with that really ugly sweater from REDValentino, ends up giving them more strength. Now it's just too late.

[Serena]

There was literally no way Jen and Lana could refuse to accept/wear that sweatet after the company Twitter account offered to send it to them.

 

A&E have some of the responsibility, I agree. I stil can't get my head around why they won't just write a freaking queer couple, though. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Serena

[myril]

Wow, so "crackship" is a demeaning word? Fanfiction is a demeaning word? I really have no idea in which world this people are living in.

 

 The term "crackship" is used and understood by people in different ways. For some it's just about crazy fun, some use it only if the characters have no relationship whatsoever in the original story, especially in case of crossover shipping, some for ships that never will happen in their opinion out of whatever reason, while other call ships crack which are in their opinion weird and ridiculous, pairings only shipable when someone is on crack (aka out of their mind, you have to use drugs, no normal thinking person would ship them, whatever normal means). Particular because of the latter calling a ship a crack ship can be taken as demeaning and it is sometimes used as demeaning, an experience especially made with same gender non-canon ships. Being on crack is not that much of a compliment unless you're a proud drug user, at least in my view, so for example I find the term at best ambiguous. Might be a bit of generation thing though, and a matter of different background and experience.

 

 

This is a prime example of why you let your PR people do you talking for you. 

 

Not even PR people are infallible. But at least then you can blame them and say you never meant it that way. ;-)

 

There is so much assuming, speculation, interpretation going on on all sides of the fandom, that I think, the best thing is to move on and stop playing the blame game altogether.

[sharky]

There was literally no way Jen and Lana could refuse to accept/wear that sweatet after the company Twitter account offered to send it to them.

 

A&E have some of the responsibility, I agree. I stil can't get my head around why they won't just write a freaking queer couple, though. 

So I remembered that and went to look up the photo again, and saw part of the Twitter excitement over it. It wasn't just that they offered -- it's that SQ fans that pushed and pushed and "Look! They want this for you!" And as I remembered, once they got them, one person seemed more excited about it than another.

[Serena]

Jen looks like she's plotting someone's murder.

[Rumsy4]

I blame Adam for this escalation of twitter bullying. He was the one who used to tweet for all ships to "have hope". It was disingenuous and unkind. At least he stopped doing that, but he continues to responds to trolls and bullies, because in his mind, any attention is good. But the bullies think they have his attention, and can get what they want. He also frequently blames reporters for misinterpreting his words. He recently threw Matt Mattovich under the bus over Graham. Adam mentioned on twitter that Emma didn't know Regina had murdered Graham, and some fans called him out on it, saying that Matt mentioned interviewing Adam after the S1 finale where he had mentioned filming a scene where Emma confronts Regina about Graham in the S1 finale, but that it didn't make the final cut. Adam absolutely denied it, and so did Matt. Some fans actually found a video footage of that spoiler roundup with Matt. Both Matt and Adam ignored the video proof. I don't blame Matt--he was the one being made to look as though he was making things up. I felt bad for him, but I do blame Adam. He can't go and blame interviewers, when the real issue is that he and Eddy like to keep "canon" fluid. 

 

It's not just the SQ shippers acting rude and uncontrolled. I have seen crazies from the CS fandom, Rumbellers, and SF shippers acting out of control on twitter. However, in my personal observation, the majority of drama has been generated by the BA of the SQ fandom, and I don't see their behavior is going to get better when the cast and writers continue to pander to them. For example, when Lana did the Ellen mag interview. Or when Lana and Jen took a pic wearing those Swan sweatshirts (which was actually not meant as a pro-SQ gift by the clothing company). Or the whole CS/SQ tea debacle. There's supporting fans who ship canon or fanon ships. Then there's pandering to them. The latter has happened more often than the former, and that's unfortunate. Sean tends to stand up to bullies (towards him and towards the actress who played Marian), but occasionally he has inserted himself into conversations where he was not tagged, which was an error of judgement IMO. There are no easy solutions, but there definitely needs to be some kind of change. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Rumsy4

[FurryFury]

The term "crackship" is used and understood by people in different ways. For some it's just about crazy fun, some use it only if the characters have no relationship whatsoever in the original story, especially in case of crossover shipping, some for ships that never will happen in their opinion out of whatever reason, while other call ships crack which are in their opinion weird and ridiculous, pairings only shipable when someone is on crack (aka out of their mind, you have to use drugs, no normal thinking person would ship them, whatever normal means). Particular because of the latter calling a ship a crack ship can be taken as demeaning and it is sometimes used as demeaning, an experience especially made with same gender non-canon ships. Being on crack is not that much of a compliment unless you're a proud drug user, at least in my view, so for example I find the term at best ambiguous. Might be a bit of generation thing though, and a matter of different background and experience.

 

Yeah sorry but that's really reaching, IMHO. Crack ship is either a ship without any basis in canon whatsoever (a more correct/wide-spread definition, I believe) or a non-canon ship without any chance of becoming canon (a more rare, but still rather frequent definition). Associations like with a person taking crack is just that, subjective definitions/associations. I can invent something like this for any term, fandom or not. Won't make it real.

 

I wouldn't call SQ a crackship simply because they do have a lot of interaction in canon and their relationship, while obviously not romantic at all, is important to the writers. Crackship is something like, I dunno, Archie and Hook. However, trying to show how you're the victim when it's your side that has the most vocal bad apples in the fandom by citing stuff like this doesn't come across as a very well thought-out tactic.

Edited May 26, 2015 by FurryFury

[Souris]

The writers went back today. I wonder how much time was spent talking about this drama? Now that I'd like to be a fly on the wall for.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Souris

[myril]

Yeah sorry but that's really reaching, IMHO. Crack ship is either a ship without any basis in canon whatsoever (a more correct/wide-spread definition, I believe) or a non-canon ship without any chance of becoming canon (a more rare, but still rather frequent definition). Associations like with a person taking crack is just that, subjective definitions/associations. I can invent something like this for any term, fandom or not. Won't make it real.

 

 I disagree. You have your definition of the word, other people use it differently and have different association with it. And why not simply say not-canon but instead label something as joke, crazy or bizarre or ridiculous? Calling something not canon is more matter of fact and descriptive IMO, calling it crack implies a judgement. It's one thing to jokingly and fondly call a pairing I myself ship a crack ship, but it can be quite a different thing, when other people call it a crack ship with the intent to play it down. I haven't paid detailed attention to the past 30 and more years of fandom discussions over the course of multiple fandoms, so can't give you the origin story of the term, but I have seen the term used in negative and demeaning sense. So I can understand, when people react negative to the term.

 

And the association with crack head and crack as drug is made. Urbandictionary.com is not a place to look up correct definition or use of a word but a I think a crack (aka excellent) place to get an idea how a word is used in pop culture. 

[Serena]

So which ships that are never gonna happen in canon are we "allowed" to call crack ships? Archie and Hook, okay, they have no interaction. Charming and Red? Hook and Cora? I wouldn't call August and Emma a crackship because I believe they were chem-testing the actors. Emma and Jefferson? I shipped them, they had crazy chemistry, but aren't they a crackship too?

[Souris]

Personally, I use crackship and fanon ship interchangeably. To me, a crackship is any ship that isn't canon or likely to ever be canon.

[emmybenz]

So, I'm a bit of an oddball here: I'm a Regina fan. I ship OQ & CS -- OQ a bit more. But this conversation caught my attention and I had to reply. I saw Lana at Regal Con this year, and I saw Lana last year in Florida. I have met some great fans of all groups at both cons, but I also have met some rude ones.  I saw someone say above that some of the SQ'ers probably wouldn't say some of this stuff to people's faces, but the nasty ones do. I had so many rude comments made to me about my photograph of Robin and Regina this year and last year; all by a couple of the SQers. Nasty comments about Sean Maguire, just ridiculously rude comments, one of which was made while Lana sat there signing and we waited in line & I was handing one of the photos to her assistant. (Which, by the way, her assistant now asks if she's okay with signing the SQ photos, because SQ'ers bring raunchy and Emma/Regina making out manips to have them sign. I've never met Jen, but I'm sure her assistant does the same thing now!) Just wanted to share my personal experience.....every time this stuff blows up online & SQ cries foul, I know how some of them really are, and get so tired of them screaming victim. 

[sharky]

Grumplestiltskin is a crack ship.

 

I can understand why some SQ fans take offense to being called a crack ship because it does have a negative connotation. But they also seem to get offended when you call them a fanon ship. So that only leaves canon and really, if you think it's canon after all that's been said, then you may be delusional enough to feel entitled to things that don't come with being fanon. Look, there's nothing wrong with fanon ships. I love Steve and Natasha in the Avengers and that's not looking hopeful. I like Sherlock and Molly in a fandom dominated by Johnlock fans [which is also a fanon ship]. Hell, the whole reason I learned about fanfiction was because I wanted Mulder and Scully to get together. Do you know how many seasons that took before it became canon? Many many many. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a fanon ship, but you have to accept that there are limitations that come with fanon shipping that don't exist for canon ships.

 

And btw, I've been thinking about all of this in the context of the recent E! polls that SQers apparently came out in force against. If AfterEllen does another poll like they did last year, I would suggest we all just walk away from the Internet for a week or so because it's going to get nasty. While I don't support the idea, all I can say is don't complain about what's done to your fandom after you did the same thing to someone else's fandom. We may seriously need a CS positive week that week or something.

Edited May 26, 2015 by sharky

[Souris]

And btw, I've been thinking about all of this in the context of the recent E! polls that SQers apparently came out in force against. If AfterEllen does another poll like they did last year, I would suggest we all just walk away from the Internet for a week or so because it's going to get nasty. While I don't support the idea, all I can say is don't complain about what's done to your fandom after you did the same thing to someone else's fandom. We may seriously need a CS positive week that week or something.

 

Ha, AfterEllen did their own couples March Madness poll this year and wouldn't put SQ on it because they "aren't a couple." SQers lobbied them to get on it, but they refused.

 

emmybenz, thank you for sharing your story. It's really sad how rude some people will be, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I wish I could say I was surprised at their behavior, but I'm not. It just shows the entitlement of some fans.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

I love Steve and Natasha in the Avengers and that's not looking hopeful.

 

Did you see the new Avengers movie?  They put a bullet in like 3 different ships.  Personally, I ship me and Loki, like I ship me and Hook.  Screw Emma!  We can call DaHook.  I mean that would be pretty awesome.  Just me?

 

because SQ'ers bring raunchy and Emma/Regina making out manips to have them sign.

 

Ok, so I actually laughed at this.  

[Mari]

Which, by the way, her assistant now asks if she's okay with signing the SQ photos, because SQ'ers bring raunchy and Emma/Regina making out manips to have them sign.

That's . . . awful.  What on earth would make them think that's a good, or tasteful, or reasonable idea?    "Hello, Person-I'm-Just-Meeting.  Please sign this picture I made of your head on top of these two scantily clad women making out so that I can add it to my wall collage!"

 

How does a person handle that level of entitlement? 

 

 (And I'm sorry that you had a bad experience and people were rude to you.  That had to make the experience less fun.)

 

 

 

Did you see the new Avengers movie?  They put a bullet in like 3 different ships. Personally, I ship me and Loki, like I ship me and Hook.  Screw Emma!  We can call DaHook.  I mean that would be pretty awesome.  Just me?

You ship whatever you want . . . We might snicker quietly to ourselves, but don't mind us.  (Some of us might be creating ships of our own in our heads. ;)  )

 

Which ships were smote in the Avengers?  I probably won't see it until my DVD arrives, and I'm curious.