Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Serena]

Frozen is getting considerable hate on the official Facebook page, with several people saying it's boring and distracts from the main cast. I even saw a few say they think it's the worst season ever, and we're only two episodes in. Is it just a bunch of Evil Regals disgruntled from the lack of Regina in 4x02? This is from the same crowd who thought Outlaw Queen and 3B were just epic.

I think so. Clearly, the general public loves it, if the ratings are to be believed.

Also, this made me laugh, but also sad. Jen perfectly well knows that she'd get harassed if she just mentioned the CS tea without hashtagging #SwanQueen. Strangely enough, neither Jen nor Lana felt the need to mention #CaptainSwan and #OutlawQueen last week when they posted about the SQ sweater. People can say all they like that all fandoms have their "bad apples", but the actresses' attitudes make it perfectly clear which one is the one that bashes them.

[Rumsy4]

Aren't we moving to generalization territory now? I was a Hook fan, but didn't know about Colin's broken leg, and didn't freak out. Season 2B was so incoherent, I just chalked it up to crappy writing. In S3, people were clamoring for more Belle and Rumbelle, because they really didn't have much screentime. But this is just episode 2 of the season, so when people start complaining about Regina not being around much, I just have to laugh. 

 

 

Also, this made me laugh, but also sad.

 

That is freaking sad when Jen tags SQ, but not CS, when holding a box of Captain Swan tea. Bullying wins, apparently.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

That is freaking sad when Jen tags SQ, but not CS, when holding a box of Captain Swan tea. Bullying wins, apparently.

I don't blame Jen for doing what she feels like she needs to do to stop harassment. I say "she shouldn't give a fuck" but I'm not the one who's getting bullied, so...

 

I'm pretty sure we knew Colin's leg was broken before the episodes with no Hook started airing. He appeared at PaleyFest and he was limping.

[KingOfHearts]

 

That is freaking sad when Jen tags SQ, but not CS, when holding a box of Captain Swan tea. Bullying wins, apparently.

 

She's been buttering up to Swan Queeners... it's upsetting. You can tell by her recent posts that she's really trying to win their approval with recognition. I know for a fact she wasn't super "Yay! Swan Queen!" before. Nothing against the ship, but in light of the recent bullying, it looks like placating.

 

 

I don't blame Jen for doing what she feels like she needs to do to stop harassment.

Yeah... it still makes me mad though. I feel like a certain crowd is getting rewarded for crass rudeness. If she doesn't get harassed any more, good for her. Haters are seldom appeased, though!

Edited October 9, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Emma]

It all started with that After Ellen blow up. I've noticed Jen and Lana have tweeted each other more often now. They took that picture together with the sweaters. And have tagged things a lot more with SQ.

 

There's also been a change in Jen's interviews.

 

Did someone higher up have a talk with them? Not sure how they could make one or both change the way they tweet or whatever.

[Mari]

Frozen is getting considerable hate on the official Facebook page, with several people saying it's boring and distracts from the main cast. I even saw a few say they think it's the worst season ever, and we're only two episodes in. Is it just a bunch of Evil Regals disgruntled from the lack of Regina in 4x02? This is from the same crowd who thought Outlaw Queen and 3B were just epic.

 

 

I think so. Clearly, the general public loves it, if the ratings are to be believed.

Facebook's impact has come up before.  I wonder how they're going to reconcile the Facebook hate with the ratings?  If it is just a small group that is devoted to Regina, that we've speculated before about influencing story?  Imagine what's going through A&E's heads.  Trying to wrap their minds around how they're hearing, but at the same time the ratings are good?  They must have little "Does not compute.  Does not compute."  thought bubbles over them at all times.

[Serena]

Yeah... it still makes me mad though. I feel like a certain crowd is getting rewarded for crass rudeness. If she doesn't get harassed any more, good for her. Haters are seldom appeased, though!

Yeah. First of all, I'm kinda sad for the fans who went to the trouble of buying the tea for her, and going to set and waiting who knows how long to give it to her. They get a tweet hashtagged #SwanQueen? Can you imagine the shitstorm if Jen had tweeted "Now I just need a CS sweater!" when posting a pic of the SQ one? 

Also, I feel bad for the Gremma, ST, Mad Swan, etc fans. So they're generally nice and polite to Jen, which is to their credit... but the downside is, they don't get acknowledged. Like, it's sad that there's a downside to niceness. 

Again, I don't blame Jen. Whatever she feels the need to do to protect herself, she should do. But it's an upsetting situation.

[Rumsy4]

I do feel bad for the CS fan (s) who gave Jen that tea. But like you said, Serena, Jen was probably just trying to keep the bullies from harassing her over this. It's a shame.

[myril]

Aren't we moving to generalization territory now? I was a Hook fan, but didn't know about Colin's broken leg, and didn't freak out. Season 2B was so incoherent, I just chalked it up to crappy writing. In S3, people were clamoring for more Belle and Rumbelle, because they really didn't have much screentime. But this is just episode 2 of the season, so when people start complaining about Regina not being around much, I just have to laugh.

 

I didn't say Hook fans or CaptainSwan shippers, didn't say the fans nor all fans but some did freak out. So, no not generalizing, just saying that fan hysteria is not limited to a certain group or faction inside the fandom. And Rumple had some screentime in  3B, but of course without Belle that was not enough for some shippers. And there are some fans still mourning Neal.

 

And this I say to everybody in this thread discussing: We're moving in circles. Most here see mostly a few Swanqueen shippers and Regina stans as the big trouble makers, and I say, they are not all alone, and other shippers and fans took things at times to serious as well and crossed lines. Too much passion, and a few losing it.

 

So, leave you all for a while alone.

 

I show myself out.

[Serena]

Clearly, even though a few fans from all ships freak out sometimes, the problem is different with SQ fans. Jen didn't hashtag #Gremma or #MadSwan in her latest tweet. Why? Because Gremma fans didn't freak out at her when she posted about the CS tea. Or maybe a couple did, but a VAST NUMBER of SQ did. 

SQ is the only ship that is making the actors and creators tiptoe around them. Maybe you're right that Hook fans freaked out when Colin wasn't seen on set. But they didn't freak out enough - act out enough - that any of the cast felt the need to add #colinisstillhere to random tweets. Like if Jen were filming with Michael and she was like "Filming with MRJ now! #butialsolikecolin" because people were so freaked out, I would say the two situations were comparable. But it's consistently ONE ship that does this.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Serena

[FabulousTater]

Most here see mostly a few Swanqueen shippers and Regina stans as the big trouble makers, and I say, they are not all alone, and other shippers and fans took things at times to serious as well and crossed lines.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm looking back at the posts for today and the talk has been about very specific instances. There was a very specific article in which fervent Regina fans were bitching and moaning, whining and complaining, to the extent that they got a tvline reporter to ping the writers about the lack of their Sainted Evil Queen, and all because Regina wasn't the focus of one -- ONE! -- episode so far this season. JFC, we're only on episode two, and yet, they lost their collective shit about it. That's cray-cray! So we're talking specific instances here. The same goes for the CS tea but with a #SQ hashtag that clearly the SQ bullies of twitter browbeat the actress into, and the intense Frozen Hate/Not Enough OQ fanatics bleating on Facebook. Again, very specific instances where a certain group are behaving like bullies.

 

I'm sure there are crazies in every ship/sailboat/yacht/aircraft carrier in the OUAT fandom, but it just happens to be we're talking about the over-the-top Regina fans because what we're seeing at the moment (and these are not isolated events. It's been happening for years now and the ugliness from these particular fanatics has only grown) is that sector of the Regina/SQ fanatics acting like, well, lunatics and bullies.

 

And if we were talking about over the top CS, Snowing , Gremma, SF, or <insert your character of choice> fans I'd say the same thing to them that I'm saying to the SQ bullies right now, "Calm your tits, Veruca Salt! And take your self-entitled bullying attitude elsewhere."

Edited October 9, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Souris]

She's been buttering up to Swan Queeners... it's upsetting. You can tell by her recent posts that she's really trying to win their approval with recognition. I know for a fact she wasn't super "Yay! Swan Queen!" before. Nothing against the ship, but in light of the recent bullying, it looks like placating.

 

Yeah... it still makes me mad though. I feel like a certain crowd is getting rewarded for crass rudeness. If she doesn't get harassed any more, good for her. Haters are seldom appeased, though!

 

It is upsetting, because it feels like bullies getting placated because of their bad behavior. I wish that weren't the case, because I don't think bullying should be rewarded, but I get why it's happening. What actress would want to see and deal with that shit? It's easier to try to head it off at the pass. Personally, I'd block the hell out of anybody posting hate on my feed if I were a celeb, but that's just me.

 

And, yes, I'm 100% certain that all fandoms and ships have their own bullies, but unless we have specific incidences of it from them, we're going to talk about the ones we do see -- and there are a heck of a lot of SQ- and Regina-fan incidences to talk about. I believe we did talk about the bullying from Neal and ST fans when they went after JMo for saying that it'd be tough for him to be her happy ending because of how often he'd betrayed her.

[myril]

Just a tip:
Hashtags on Twitter
#BringBackNeal
#KillKillian
#StopOnceUponAHook

No, not all Regina stans or SwanQueen shippers
And often fans getting at each other and at Adam, so at least not harassing actors. Something. Whatever.

[InsertWordHere]

The #StopOnceUponAHook campaign is an alliance of SQers, SFers, and Rumbellers and it has been going on for months. I agree that it's not only SQers that cause drama, but in this specific and most recent incident, it was SQers.

[myril]

Do I get this right? Because one is a campaign by an alliance of different factions (different fave characters and ships) going on for months it is not as worth to discuss here as are single incidents ascribed to some alleged Regina stans and SQers?

Edited October 9, 2014 by katusch

[maryle]

So here we go again!

I just learned about the tea thing.

The only thing that will be sad to me is if Jen begin to censor herself about captainswan. If she stops talking about CS or feels that if she post a pic concerning CS she must post a pic about SQ too because it is normal that she have more to talk about CS  than SQ.

 Just because one is canon and the other... not

 I will find that really weird if she speak as much about CS  and SQ.

We have to wait and see. But the all thing is really bizarre.

[Souris]

Do I get this right? Because one is a campaign by an alliance of different factions (different fave characters and ships) going on for months it is not as worth to discuss here as are single incidents ascribed to some alleged Regina stans and a SQers?

 

I think you're reading way too much into the previous post. InsertWordHere never said it wasn't worthy of discussion, simply explained what it is as an illustration that it's NOT just SQers. That's not the same thing at all.

[Rumsy4]

Do I get this right? Because one is a campaign by an alliance of different factions (different fave characters and ships) going on for months it is not as worth to discuss here as are single incidents ascribed to some alleged Regina stans and a SQers?

 

Of course not. People just don't feel the need to drag every single incidence of bullying or harassing or general bad behaviour of some or several fandom groups when discussing a specific instance, as we were doing in this case. Do we really to start adding disclaimers to every post saying #NotAllFans, and #OtherShipsHaveBAtoo? ;-)

Edited October 9, 2014 by Rumsy4

[FabulousTater]

People just don't feel the need to drag every single incidence of bullying or harassing or general bad behaviour of some or several fandom groups when discussing a specific instance, as we were doing in this case.

And I would add that the instances of fanatics being bullies that we've been discussing today are all instances that happened today (if not just yesterday). The tvline article that started the current discussion was from last night (Oct. 8, 2014) and Jennifer's tweet (with the CS tea but random SQ hashtag) was from today about 3 hours ago. It's not like we were mining the news archives from last year to only disparage SQ fanatic viewers because we were bored (speaking for myself, anyway).

 

If some feel the need to comment about the looney militants who aren't Regina/SQ fanatics, here's a series of tweets from Oct. 6 that went to Adam Horowitz with #StopOnceUponAHook ( and InsertWordHere noted this is apparently an obnoxious campaign being led by fans that cross various "ships"). Everyone, discuss if you wish.

 

ETA: BTW, to these #StopOnceUponAHook jerks I also say, "Calm your tits, Veruca Salt!" (I really have the need to say this to someone in real life now :-P)

Edited October 9, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Dani-Ellie]

Here's the thing. I don't understand what's so hard about, if you really dislike a certain character or plotline, fast-forwarding that shit. We've got posters here who are watching the characters/plotlines they care about via fan-uploaded YouTube clips (which, correct me if I'm wrong, are usually up within a couple of hours of broadcast). So why is something like that not an option for these fans? Why is it their way or the highway? I just want to be all, "Get over yourselves, peeps."

Edited October 9, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[InsertWordHere]

Do I get this right? Because one is a campaign by an alliance of different factions (different fave characters and ships) going on for months it is not as worth to discuss here as are single incidents ascribed to some alleged Regina stans and SQers?

No, I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I have not been part of this discussion and I was simply clarifying who was behind that campaign, which for the record, I do not like, but did not feel comfortable talking about on here as I am a Hook fan. I have actually been staying largely out of this discussion and should not have even made my small comment. Carry on.

[Camera One]

Ugh, 1 episode without Regina and there us already panic.

Why weren't there complaints about barely any Charmings in the premiere? Or maybe there were, but Adam and Eddy just didn't care (more likely).

 

So there are idiotic interviewers asking questions like this, and Adam and Eddy will come away from it thinking, oh no, we better not do a Regina-free episode again.  

Edited October 10, 2014 by Camera One

[BoPeeps]

Twitter, at its most simplistic base, is a cesspool for the profoundly ignorant. Giving ANY credence to any foul moron from any part of any fandom is enabling pond scum mentality. So don't give them one moment of time. They act like entitled little shits because they have no accountability.

Block them, acknowledge none. They are owed NOTHING. They deserve even less. The total of all the posters spewing their cowardly puke is equal to a thimble of the fandom. They get attention because they are verbal, repugnant and decidedly immature. Piss on them. And that includes the creators, the writers and the actors doing the pissing on them.There is a block function on Twitter for a good reason. USE it...and let the bottom crawlers wallow in their own sludge.

 

Concentrate on what makes you feel GOOD about ONCE. Screw the rest.

Edited October 10, 2014 by BoPeeps

[Souris]

How do you really feel, BoPeeps? ;) No, seriously, good advice.

[Rumsy4]

I have this idea that those of us who use twitter and are interested, should mass tweet Adam positive things after the Emma-centric, and tell him we would love to see more Emma-centrics. We can use the same tools as the bullies, but in a positive way.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Dani-Ellie]

I love it, and would totally be on-board with that plan!

[Camera One]

I have this idea that those of us who use twitter and are interested, should mass tweet Adam positive things after the Emma-centric, and tell him we would love to see more Emma-centrics. We can use the same tools as the bullies, but in a positive way.

 

That's a good idea, though the next Emma centric is probably 4x19.

[Souris]

I have fantasies of starting a #StopOUATBullying hashtag.

[Rumsy4]

I'll try to spread it on tumblr, but am not sure I have the interest/energy to constantly promote it. If some of the more popular bloggers become interested, they can help spread the word.

[Camera One]

Or #StoptheRealLifeBoPeeps.  They brand you by following you.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

I don't blame Jen for doing what she feels like she needs to do to stop harassment.

Well, I do. To give the bullies what they want so they stop with it it's a mistake, and it's sending a bad message: "keep bullying and you would get what you want" or "do what the bully wants you to do and he would stop". For me, as someone who works with kids, this is problematic.

[myril]

Well, I do. To give the bullies what they want so they stop with it it's a mistake, and it's sending a bad message: "keep bullying and you would get what you want" or "do what the bully wants you to do and he would stop". For me, as someone who works with kids, this is problematic.

 

You're right, it's problematic to give into bullies. On the other hand the hashtag #Swanqueen is no hashtag used only by bullies or haters or overly passionate people.  It's a difficult situation, but it can make sense to not let a keyword, hashtag, be occupied by a small number of people in a negative way but use it in positive ways whenever it makes sense and feels not contrived. That is what I get from this tea tweet of Jennifer Morrison: She is not giving into anything, after all she shows she is enjoying the CaptainSwan tea very much, but SwanQueen fans are free, or invited, to send her their tea as well. No one needs to throw rude tweets at her to get attention.

 

Would say that Jennifer Morrison is handling it not that bad. She seems to use different strategies, guess she is ignoring a lot of what has been thrown at her, but as well she stepped in and stood up, and she is assertive, not aggressive. You seldom can win against bullies or trolls or haters in a shout match, particular not if you're acting rattled and agitated. Ignoring or walking away can help at times, and is often advised, but helps more when the attack is rather random, more in single incidents. If the attacks are ongoing a disarming and assertive response is a good approach. And that tweet, I found that disarming. But YMMV.

[Serena]

LMAO. Remember how we were saying it wasn't fair that only the SQ, of all the non-current Emma ships, would get an hashtag from Jen? Here are ALL THE HASHTAGS. #captainswan #swanqueen #swanfire #swansandwich #swantever 

[Dani-Ellie]

OMG I love her. #Swanbug indeed. Dare I hope that she's totally being sarcastic now??

[Serena]

Here it is again. She's totally copy-pasting those hashtags. I do love the jewelry.

[Emma]

OMG I love her. #Swanbug indeed. Dare I hope that she's totally being sarcastic now??

She tagged the swanbug one a few weeks ago when she posted a pic of her and the bug.

I'd like to think there's some sarcasm involved but it's probably Jen's last straw really.

[Serena]

Oh my God, look at this. Ahah, they're definitely trolling at this point.

[Emma]

LOL. Bless them both for that picture.

[Souris]

I found this bit of hashtagging whimsy hysterical while also being sadly probably more than a little true.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I found this bit of hashtagging whimsy hysterical while also being sadly probably more than a little true.

LOL... that's extremely accurate. I thought #swanbug was the Emma/Archie ship, but I guess it's the yellow bug.

[Emma]

I found this bit of hashtagging whimsy hysterical while also being sadly probably more than a little true.

That's pretty funny but sad at the same time. Probably on the mark.

[Stuffy]

I'm finding it funny that people are so pressed about Captain Swan that they are complaining about it being a teenage drama. It's a show about fairy tales on a broadcast network during the 8/7 family hour. I'm not quite sure what they're expecting.

Also I'm loving how annoyed they are that their precious Regina and Rumple aren't front and center. I mean for goodness sakes they just had to bring Emma back from NYC and then gave her one job to Regina. Now that was ridiculous. Regina taking a back seat the first half of the season after years and years of everything being about her isn't ridiculous. It's awesome.

If anyone has the right to be annoyed it's Snow's fans. She's supposed to be the lead actress/character on the show and hasn't had the main storyline long long before Ginny became pregnant.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Stuffy

[maryle]

Well some of the hater sent hate to Adams because of the dressbe too feminine.

 

Really! Grow up people sending hate to  the Creator because the Creator choose to demonstrate the main character emotional state about her new relationship throught her robe. 

Never any tv show have done that before. It surely a prove their anti feminist! Sarcarsm

 

 Some people are really

[Emma]

I went on twitter for the first time in weeks. Guess what? Jen's getting hate right now for the order of her ship hashtags. Apparently it's not enough that she's including them all now.

Give me a bleeping break.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I went on twitter for the first time in weeks. Guess what? Jen's getting hate right now for the order of her ship hashtags. Apparently it's not enough that she's including them all now.

Sadly, this is why placating haters doesn't work. They will always find something new to gripe and complain about. It's just their nature. On a completely unrelated note, isn't the blocking option wonderful? ;)

Edited October 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Minneapple]

I'm finding it funny that people are so pressed about Captain Swan that they are complaining about it being a teenage drama.

Well some of the hater sent hate to Adams because of the dressbe too feminine.

Guess what? Jen's getting hate right now for the order of her ship hashtags.

I've never really been hardcore into any fandom, always been on the fringes of it, happy just to read fics and watch a few vids and look at pretty gifs and occasionally gawk. But what I have learned is this: Fandom is never happy. Never. Fans will always find a way to bitch about something. So I wish I could say I was surprised by the above, but I'm not. (As crazy as Once fandom might be, it ain't got a candle on Supernatural fandom. Nothing holds a candle to Supernatural fandom). OUaT fandom with the Swan Queen shippers actually reminds me of Teen Wolf fandom with the Sterek shippers -- always bitching about queer representation, but never willing to champion the cause of the actual gay characters on the show. Teen Wolf is another embarrassing fandom. God, I miss the fourth wall.

 

On another note, I quit OUaT in season two and came back late last year. So tonight I've been doing what I do in fandom, reading a few Captain Swan fics and visiting tumblr for pretty gifs. And I see that people are complaining about rape culture in Once Upon a Time and with Captain Swan. I read through this thread and saw a few mentions of the rape culture complaints. Which...whoa. Did I miss something in my time away? Did Hook do something rapey? This would be problematic for me since I really do like the ship. Captain Swan is one of the few canon ships I really enjoy -- usually I like shipping non-canon couples and cracky kinds of ships.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Minneapple

[Rumsy4]

Here's a link on a great blog post that explains why CS is not rape culture: http://drnucleus.tumblr.com/post/98869898169/so-could-you-please-tell-me-what-your-definition-of

I'm reaching my limit with this RC argument, and just looking at that word makes me want to scream. I just want to enjoy my ship and the show.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Minneapple]

Here's a link on a great blog post that explains why CS is not rape culture: http://drnucleus.tum...r-definition-of

Whew. Okay, thanks. Given what I've seen on the show since I returned, I would have been really surprised if Hook did something that would be considered rape culture. But I don't really trust TV writers when it comes to rape anymore. At some point I'll have to watch the episodes of the show that I've missed.

[retrograde]

Look, Hook/OuaT isn't not promoting rape culture because a blogger who took a gender studies class decrees it so. What does and does not constitute "rape culture" is still an ongoing discussion, and there isn't some "100% rape culture free!" certification you can award to any media or entertainment product. 

 

Has Hook done anything explicitly that might be considered rape? No. Like, no way near anything like that. So if that's your worry, you're golden. No Regina/Graham situations here. Has he said and done some things some people find problematic? Yes. Those things include:

 

• Saying "Normally, I prefer to do other more enjoyable activities with a woman on her back ... When I jab you with my sword, you'll feel it." while he had Emma pinned down.
• "If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were trying to get me drunk -- which is usually my tactic" could imply he usually gets woman drunk to get them into bed.
• I think some people found "When I win your heart Emma -- and I will win it..." a bit pushy and presumptuous. 
• Just him generally hanging around and making flirty remarks when Emma never actually said she liked him until, well, last week. 

 

So it's up to you whether you take issues with these kinds of things and how you interpret them. I generally like Hook and enjoy how the relationship with Emma has played out, but I don't think these things should be immune from criticism and I can see why people take issue with them and would even agree on some points. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by retrograde

[Minneapple]

Deleted because I think this is getting off-topic.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Minneapple