S01.E03: Where There's Smoke...

[jewel21]

Quote

When the crew responds to a call in a remote forest, they come under fire by an outlaw protecting illegal marijuana crops.

Airdate: 10/21/2022

[Danielg342]

Oh...this show.

If there wasn't Max Theriot I'm not sure there would be much to watch.

I'll give the show this much- they had a more interesting way of resolving a hostage situation than what we normally get on TV. I'm not sure how much I believe what happened, but it was better than the usual "negotiations before the inevitable conclusion" that we always get from Hollywood.

Still, Bode stole the show. He was a little righteous in this episode and the show is going to have to be careful not to fall into the trap of having him always be right and everyone else being wrong, because that would undermine the show. At the very least, Manny being his mentor- and surrogate father- has to continue, because Bode could learn a lot from Manny and I want to see the show expand on that.

As for Bode and his actual father...well, disappointing that, in the end, they didn't reconcile...but it was also the right call. You don't repair that kind of damage with a simple talk and a hug out at the end. It takes a lot of time, so good on the show for recognizing that.

[possibilities]

I'm disappointed that they've dropped all the otehr inmate characters in favor of just making this a show about Bode and his family drama.

[Danielg342]

53 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm disappointed that they've dropped all the otehr inmate characters in favor of just making this a show about Bode and his family drama.

I want to see Freddy again...W. Tre Davis is a scene stealer every time he's on. Freddy has some unexplored potential as a character too.

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

He was a little righteous in this episode and the show is going to have to be careful not to fall into the trap of having him always be right and everyone else being wrong, because that would undermine the show.

It seems obvious to me that the writers are intent on creating the Stella Kidd of wildland firefighting here.  Bode taking charge, Bode telling everyone else what to do....

Guy comes running out of the woods, completely on fire.  Everyone around him, holding a fire hose, and another firefighter beats the flames out with his fire shirt.  Yep.

[Raja]

From other prison dramas I wonder how Bode survived before getting to the camp if he woke up screaming like that. Perhaps being back home triggered him? 

The problem with the star all but owing the show really raised its ugly head here as everyone gives way to inmate Bode's awesomeness.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

From other prison dramas I wonder how Bode survived before getting to the camp if he woke up screaming like that. Perhaps being back home triggered him? 

I would imagine so. It does sound like it wasn't the first time he's woke up screaming at the camp, but I do think being at home shook things back up in him. 

I still really like this show. I know it has its issues, but I'm really enjoying a lot about it. I do like the family dynamic between Vince, Sharon and Bode. Yes, I do think they need to be careful on Bode saving the day every episode but here, it kind of made sense? So I'm fine with it as long as they don't go overboard. 

I do want more inmate scenes, for sure. Those are just as interesting to me as the family drama. But I'm afraid Freddy is going to be the season's casualty. No reason other than direct fear to add more drama to Bode's story.

I'm glad Bode just told Vince outright about Jake and Riley. I was afraid they'd drag that to at least the sixth episode. It's better that Vince knows now so he realizes how imperfect Jake really is. Who, speaking of, still sucks. Yes, everyone kind of brought their family drama into the crisis with the weed dealer, but Jake took it up a notch and decided to interject negative things about Bode for no reason. At least with Bode, he was using his backstory as a way to connect with the weed dealer who was threatening to shoot everyone. Jake interjected his hate of Bode for no real reason. 

Eve/Gabriella didn't have a whole lot to do besides showing Gabriella start training.

[theredhead77]

I, too, really like this show. One of the things I really like is that they don't drag things out for the sake of dragging things out. There aren't problems that are being caused by a miscommunication nor are people trying to pretend they don't know each other or have history. I appreciated the training scene with Gabriella when Sharon and Eve (?) had to go, they didn't pull a "don't worry about it, recruit" and told Gabriella what was up. It makes sense that Bode knows people like Mojave and I found Mojave to be a believable character. Sure, the resolution was "TV-esque" where the stars lived, but it's a.... TV show. I wouldn't expect them to kill off the leads this early on. It's also on CBS, so I wouldn't expect them to pull a LOST! or GoT and randomly kill off the leads.

[possibilities]

The flashback showed that Riley was trying to dive out of a moving car when Bode lost control of the vehicle. He was trying to stop her from doing that. So, really, she was at least as responsible for her death as he was. She was acting like a petulant idiot and doing something super-dangerous because she wanted to go after Jake, who had dumped her. Based on her behavior, I'm thinking she was obviously an immature teen who Jake really shouldn't have been involved with in the first place.

Jake still not having the guts to admit to Vince the whole story makes him even worse than he already was. 

[Whimsy]

29 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The flashback showed that Riley was trying to dive out of a moving car when Bode lost control of the vehicle. He was trying to stop her from doing that. So, really, she was at least as responsible for her death as he was. She was acting like a petulant idiot and doing something super-dangerous because she wanted to go after Jake, who had dumped her. Based on her behavior, I'm thinking she was obviously an immature teen who Jake really shouldn't have been involved with in the first place.

Jake still not having the guts to admit to Vince the whole story makes him even worse than he already was. 

Right!?!  Why is everyone acting like the accident was all Bode’s fault?  I don’t get it. 

[buckboard]

I want to hear more about how all the blame got laid on Bode for Riley jumping out of the car.  Why didn't Bode mention that at the time and let all the blame get put on himself?  Why was it such a big secret that Jake was dating Riley?  

[Lady Calypso]

4 hours ago, Whimsy said:

Right!?!  Why is everyone acting like the accident was all Bode’s fault?  I don’t get it. 

Because it sounds like ONLY Bode and Jake knew about Riley being broken-hearted about Jake. Not even Eve knew until Bode got back and punched Jake. So with Bode feeling guilt over losing control in the car, and Jake determined to keep the Riley relationship a secret, nobody else had any idea. So, in their eyes, Bode crashed his car that killed his sister and that was it. None of them seemed to know that Riley was trying to get out in the first place. 

I imagine the guilt over his sister's death kept him from being honest until he got back. Though, yeah, there are still questions as to why Bode decided to come clean now and not before he took off. 

[Daff]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:17 AM, Dowel Jones said:

Guy comes running out of the woods, completely on fire.  Everyone around him, holding a fire hose, and another firefighter beats the flames out with his fire shirt.  Yep.

Exactly “yep”! You can’t apply a fire hose to a human. Even if his skin wasn’t severely damaged by the burns, the hose would tear clothes and flesh right off him. What was the matter with him anyway? Isn’t every school kid in this country taught repeatedly, stop, drop, and roll? Ad nauseum, year after year…

[Dowel Jones]

You don't hit them with the full 80 psi force of the hose.  You cut it back and keep it gentle.

[Danielg342]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:47 PM, buckboard said:

I want to hear more about how all the blame got laid on Bode for Riley jumping out of the car.  Why didn't Bode mention that at the time and let all the blame get put on himself?  Why was it such a big secret that Jake was dating Riley?  

That's one of the big questions I have. I suppose Bode could have, out of remorse, put the entire blame on the accident himself but, since Riley died, there would have been an official police report and I don't know how investigators miss Riley not wearing her seatbelt and opening her own door. Jake dating Riley could be a believable secret given they weren't serious, but, then again, Jake was at Riley's birthday party.

So the show will have to figure out how to resolve those questions. That said, I wouldn't want these questions to hang over the show like the Sword of Damocles- they're not "major mystery" material and should be treated as such.

On 10/22/2022 at 11:24 AM, theredhead77 said:

It makes sense that Bode knows people like Mojave and I found Mojave to be a believable character. Sure, the resolution was "TV-esque" where the stars lived, but it's a.... TV show.

I don't disagree that Mojave was a believable character and that Bode would be the one best suited to talk him out of the situation. The question is more about what the show decides going forward- it would be very easy for the writers to use this episode as a basis for making Bode know the answer for every problem the show throws at its characters with the other characters being ineffective and thus, constantly looking at Bode for help. Such a decision would derail the show. What I want to see is a story of Bode's growth- one where you can see that he really wants to do the right thing but screws up every now and then, with the other characters- Manny at the forefront, but also Sharon, his mother, and others like Freddy, Eve and maybe even Jake and Gabriella- helping him stay on the right path.

In other words, it's too early in the show's run for Bode to be a "know it all". We need some time before the show should have the option of doing that.

[buckboard]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't disagree that Mojave was a believable character and that Bode would be the one best suited to talk him out of the situation. The question is more about what the show decides going forward- it would be very easy for the writers to use this episode as a basis for making Bode know the answer for every problem the show throws at its characters with the other characters being ineffective and thus, constantly looking at Bode for help. Such a decision would derail the show.

Good point, DANIELG342 about Bode being shown as someone with all the answers.  Especially since his actions in the past that got him into so much trouble were often the WRONG answers.

[Daff]

On 10/23/2022 at 11:58 PM, Danielg342 said:

for making Bode know the answer for every problem

This seems to be the main problem with the story. A bit hard to swallow each week, as we’re treated to CGI wildfire/rescue scenes. Beginning to think it’s a soap, dressed in another “we must celebrate our heroes” costume. 

[NJRadioGuy]

6 hours ago, Daff said:

This seems to be the main problem with the story. A bit hard to swallow each week, as we’re treated to CGI wildfire/rescue scenes. Beginning to think it’s a soap, dressed in another “we must celebrate our heroes” costume. 

Considering it's a show about fighting wildfires, you kinda have to show wildfires and rescues. But with that said, the interpersonal/family drama is what makes this show so compelling to me, and why, through three episodes, it's pretty nicely balanced IMHO. The fire camp is just the hook (and ladder). Face it, it's pretty much impossible to sell a primetime TV drama that isn't about cops, firemen, lawyers, hospitals, or some kind of military agency, so it's probably best just to roll with it.

After being greenlit they had 13 episodes to play with, and they had to clearly and quickly establish who's who, what their damage is, define the major story arcs, set the stage, and drag the viewer up to speed with enough of the technical/procedural aspects so they don't feel lost. It's simply too early to delve into the nuances of secondary and supporting characters. I have no doubt that will come in time, but for now, I think casual viewers have enough on their plate. I'm sure that by the midpoint in the season we'll see more about the other inmates and their situation, and hopefully Gabriella (please, show, don't call her Gabby...).

As for the other cons, viewers who enjoy CBS-style procedurals likely wouldn't have a lot of sympathy right off the bat for violent convicts potentially rehabilitating themselves ("Kid....have you rehabilitated yourself?"), so that will almost certainly have to be approached in a way that the average 70 year old retiree won't clutch her pearls every time she sees a guy in orange. And I think that's also why Bode has to be shown as a badass with all the answers early and often. OK, so he robbed a liquor store at gunpoint, and deserved the five years he got for doing it, so show us early why such a violent felon is worth rooting for.

And of course root for him we do. We have just enough of the back story to understand why he spiraled out of control so by the end of probably the fifth or sixth episode they'll start to fill in the secondary characters more. The big question is how to you keep this premise up if this show's audience keeps growing and it ends up getting renewed for 4 or 5 seasons or more. Do you make Bode relapse and get sentenced to more time (which would be complete bullshit lazy writing), or do you turn him into the new Manny--likely after killing off the old Manny in a fire.

[possibilities]

There are other fire/rescue shows on the air for many seasons, which don't revolve around the soap of one misunderstood guy with all the answers and his dysfunctional family that rejected him... and the incredible journey through the grace of heroic man pain and impressive magical firefighting instincts, by which they are slowly healed when the family is inspired to figure out they were wrong.

There are lots of stories that could be told about firefighting, or about the convicts in the fire program. What did they do? How did they become the person who did whatever it was? Are they changed? If so, how and why did that happen? If not, where does that lead? Orange is the New Black did this. I didn't watch Oz but it went on for a few seasons, so I figure there were stories there, too.

I'm not against some family stuff, but I'd like them to spread it around and make it more of an ensemble. If it's just going to be a soap about an angsty dude and the mother who loves him and is dying of kidney failure, with the firefighting and "con camp" program just the backdrop to advance the story of Bode's Woes and His Mamma's Pain About It, I'll be rolling my eyes out of my head, very disappointed, and also consider it grossly exploitative and a bait and switch.

I was really impressed by the pilot. But they've veered farther and farther away from what made it interesting and more and more into the blandest and most cliched stories imaginable, since then.

I grant that CBS isn't known for its originality or for making a story that isn't pretty much paint by number. But it's disappointing to be offered something else and then have that abandoned.

I watch some procedurals. And I like shows about fire and rescue. And I also watch shows about families. So I'm not even asking them to be super-innovative and totally out of the box. I never thought it would be OITNB or some other "high concept" artsy fartsy or wildly original show. It's CBS. But they're the ones who aired that pilot, and long-running shows do exist that aren't overwhelmingly over the top soaps, including some in the fire/rescue lane. So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be disappointed with what we've seen in the past 2 episodes, and I don't think it's impossible to do a show that isn't like that, because it's been done before many times, including on network tv.

Maybe they'll course correct again and bring it back into balance. Bode can be troubled and he can be a good firefighter. I just don't want this to be a superhero show, you know?

Edited October 28, 2022 by possibilities

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Do you turn him into the new Manny--likely after killing off the old Manny in a fire.

I could see Bode's ultimate series trajectory being the one who replaces Manny leading the convict camp. I just wouldn't want that to come at the expense of Manny life- it would be a better series-ending development with Manny either retiring or moving up the department food chain. The finale could introduce a "new" Bode and we'd have the sense that the Manny-Bode cycle is repeating itself again.

As for Bode "needing to be right all the time", what matters most is the presentation. Are the other characters shown to be competent too, and are there times where Bode has to look for others for help? Bode being the one who solves the problems on the show is, in principle, not necessarily bad characterization. What would be bad characterization is if all the other characters do is look to Bode for help and are useless unless Bode is telling them what to do.

Bode and the others have to complement each other in some way- otherwise, why have the other characters?

[Danielg342]

3 minutes ago, possibilities said:

There are lots of stories that could be told about firefighting, or about the convicts in the fire program. What did they do? How did they become the person who did whatever it was? Are they changed? If so, how and why did that happen? If not, where does that lead?

I would agree that what sets this show apart would be the idea of using fire and rescue as a path for redemption for not just Bode but the other convicts as well. They're not doing this for fun- they're doing it all because they want time off their sentences. That implies that they're all like Bode who made a mistake and want to correct that mistake. So I'd like to learn more about the inmates and what drove them to want to sign up for the program.

What the show is missing- and what I hope it can build in later episodes- is presenting the camp as a team with a goal in mind. Manny, essentially, is the character the inmates would aspire to be, because Manny was once one of them and now he's back in civilian life. What we need now is showing some characters who take leadership and help their fellow campers get back on track when they slip and remind them of why the camp is worth it when some of them start to value its usefulness.

I'm not saying that the camp has to be shown as a happy bunch that normally holds hands and sings "Kumbaya" all the time. That would probably be the worst thing the show could do. The show needs to emphasize that the other campers are like Bode who have struggles they want to overcome, and that should breed a collective thought where each of the campers help each other with their struggles. There's a lot of drama that could be mined from that if the show realizes it.

[Daff]

6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Considering it's a show about fighting wildfires, you kinda have to show wildfires and rescues. But with that said, the interpersonal/family drama is what makes this show so compelling to me, and why, through three episodes, it's pretty nicely balanced IMHO. The fire camp is just the hook (and ladder). Face it, it's pretty much impossible to sell a primetime TV drama that isn't about cops, firemen, lawyers, hospitals, or some kind of military agency, so it's probably best just to roll with it.

After being greenlit they had 13 episodes to play with, and they had to clearly and quickly establish who's who, what their damage is, define the major story arcs, set the stage, and drag the viewer up to speed with enough of the technical/procedural aspects so they don't feel lost. It's simply too early to delve into the nuances of secondary and supporting characters. I have no doubt that will come in time, but for now, I think casual viewers have enough on their plate. I'm sure that by the midpoint in the season we'll see more about the other inmates and their situation, and hopefully Gabriella (please, show, don't call her Gabby...).

As for the other cons, viewers who enjoy CBS-style procedurals likely wouldn't have a lot of sympathy right off the bat for violent convicts potentially rehabilitating themselves ("Kid....have you rehabilitated yourself?"), so that will almost certainly have to be approached in a way that the average 70 year old retiree won't clutch her pearls every time she sees a guy in orange. And I think that's also why Bode has to be shown as a badass with all the answers early and often. OK, so he robbed a liquor store at gunpoint, and deserved the five years he got for doing it, so show us early why such a violent felon is worth rooting for.

And of course root for him we do. We have just enough of the back story to understand why he spiraled out of control so by the end of probably the fifth or sixth episode they'll start to fill in the secondary characters more. The big question is how to you keep this premise up if this show's audience keeps growing and it ends up getting renewed for 4 or 5 seasons or more. Do you make Bode relapse and get sentenced to more time (which would be complete bullshit lazy writing), or do you turn him into the new Manny--likely after killing off the old Manny in a fire.

I agree with everything you wrote. I guess I wasn’t clear enough and responded too quickly. My main gripe is that each resolution is provided by Bode, super-hero, who always knows best. Even though he’s surrounded by others with much more experience. That was stated by the poster I was answering. It’s like watching serial episodes of Mighty Mouse. Odds are his luck is bound to run out, and refusing to follow orders will put everyone in danger. 

[Featherhat]

I still really like the show a lot but I think it *is* noticeable that it's created by two people who were on Grey's Anatomy for a decade and the star of the show, for better or worse. For me the family dynamics are interesting and I pretty much like everyone to some degree. 

Like others I do want them to branch out into the other firefighter inmates and not just have this be the Bode drama show. There is a lot of potential there with their various reasons why they signed up for this dangerous work (as well as to get time off) and the various ethics and good points of using inmates as firefighters. Manny would certainly be the one to point to and say "it works, they help save lives and communities and they get a skill they can use for ever" but that's not going to be the case with all of them. And like with that guy at the end, some of them have got to be a little resentful that Bode's family are right there and have the power to visit him as well as Manny clearly taking him under his wing. To the point Bode's own mother points out that she wants Bode to be more like Manny and not the other way around. 

When they first introduced Riley's death I thought it was going to be a situation where Bode was either drunk or high and that's what made him crash but clearly that's not the case and if Riley hadn't been upset about Jake she would probably be alive. Did Vince convince himself that Bode should have made sure she was wearing her seatbelt though? They were laying it on thick with him going "clearly why Bode punched you is that he's jealous of you because I always loved you and you're who he should have been". Holy projecting buddy. Obviously that was to bring it all around to the convo at the end but yeah. IF Vince was like this before Bode left then I can see why that didn't help matters.

Although I do understand all the family's POV to a certain extent and it will be interesting to see how Vince handles Jake's part in the tragedy. And Jake, your unwillingness to ever own up to your part in it is making you my least favourite character. No good telling Gabriella but not Reily's family. I get that it's incredibly hard to do but it can no longer be considered insignificant or a kindness to keep it secret. I imagine it was supposed to be guilt for what Vince said and the secret that made him nasty towards Bode but again it didn't help me like the character because apart from being a competent firefighter there isn't much to the character, especially as he was such a lukewarm boyfriend in the pilot. The only thing I really have liked was his encouragement to Gabriella to consider Cal Fire. 

I appreciate that this show isn't hanging around with Gabriella. In the first ep she was shown helping out and by ep 3 she's a potential recruit. Eve had very little to do this episode but it was good to see her take no BS approach to training potential probies and that talk with Gabriella. 

Sharon seems to be able to do whatever she wants without any consequences. I know she's division chief and is well respected but at some point someone's going to question things like her taking control of the hostage situation involving her husband and son from the sheriffs. One would have though anyway. And they planted people finding out about her kidney disease as potentially impacting on her career this week. 

[possibilities]

Damn. I didn't realize the people running this are from GA. I can't stand that show. I really like Station 19, though. I guess I'll watch a little longer and see where things settle out, but the GA connection dims my optimism that it'll move the directions I've been hoping.