S01.E06: The Princess and the Queen

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

Episode Synopsis:

Ten years later. Rhaenyra navigates Alicent’s continued speculation about her children, while Daemon and Laena weigh an offer in Pentos.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date. 

[Constantinople]

Alicent (to Aemond): You will have a dragon one day.
Helaena (to herself): He'll have to close an eye.
Nice foreshadowing.

[LanceM]

Thank you, thank you to the show runners  for not changing Lord Grover Tully’s name,

[ybrik]

Glad we got confirmation on who set the fire that killed the Strongs. I wonder how many of the questionable events from the books are going to end up being Larys did it.

Shame it seems like the kids were actually friendly but seems like the adults are going to make them enemies. Though it seems like Aemond was the odd one out. 

Also it is an interesting choice with how they are portraying Alicent’s daughter. Seems she may be what Viserys wanted to be a dreamer 

Is Lary’s a green seer or a warg? It is interesting that they are constantly focusing on the rats around the courts and I don’t know if I was seeing things but it looked they were focusing on a bug on one of the assassins. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by ybrik

[steelyis]

I think I'm starting to prefer the antiseptic way Fire and Blood tells this story. Reading/listening to all these people be horrible to each other is less stomach-churning than watching it happen in disturbing detail on the show. I was already dreading Blood and Cheese, and that bit of theater was sickening enough through narration. Now? I want to take precautions so I never see HotD's version of that event, because I know I won't be able to stomach it.

[Raachel2008]

13 hours ago, ybrik said:

but it looked they were focusing on a bug on one of the assassins. 

It was a beetle pin.

[magdalene]

The same beetle is on the knob of Larys' cane.

[heckkitty]

Seeing a lot of complaints on the no spoiler thread about why the big time jump, and I have to say I agree. I'm reading this right now, and it seems like we're in for nothing but war, war, war, and dying dragons from here on out. Couldn't they have filled this gap with actual plot before going to all the warring?

[ursula]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:03 PM, ybrik said:

Glad we got confirmation on who set the fire that killed the Strongs. I wonder how many of the questionable events from the books are going to end up being Larys did it.

Nothing the show "confirms" is actual book canon though. Whether Larys killed his family, or Daemon killed his wife, or the sequence of events leading to Rhaenyra's and Cole's estrangement... it's still the show's adaptation of the book. Just like in the show, Alicent and Rhaenyra are the same age and besties, Mysaria's miscarriage, and Laena's death by childfever, which are some of the several examples of "hard" canon (i.e. irrefutable facts, not "different people have different opinions on what happened") details that the adaptation changed from the books.

Murdering his family IMO made no sense, but it looks like the show wants to make Larys the designated Big Bad, which makes sense for a screen adaptation where the audience needs someone to specifically root for or against.

Edited September 27, 2022 by ursula

[Meredith Quill]

3 hours ago, heckkitty said:

Seeing a lot of complaints on the no spoiler thread about why the big time jump, and I have to say I agree. I'm reading this right now, and it seems like we're in for nothing but war, war, war, and dying dragons from here on out. Couldn't they have filled this gap with actual plot before going to all the warring?

Actually, I think they would've been better starting with ep 6 as the first ep and showing all that went before in flashbacks. But what do I know... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ursula]

26 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Actually, I think they would've been better starting with ep 6 as the first ep and showing all that went before in flashbacks. But what do I know... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree. They're rushing through the back-story to get to the main story, so it would have been simpler to just... start with the main story and show flashbacks every once in a while. 

I've gone from thinking making Alicent and Rhaenyra besties was a great idea to realizing it was a terrible idea because it skews so many characters's motives and makes certain plots nonsensical. Alicent going from "Rhaenyra had premarital sex and lied to ME about it" to "Rhaenyra will murder my children" is a stretch even by medieval deadly political standards. Viserys being outraged over waiting a few years for Laena to be the same age as Alicent to have sex... was I guess supposed to make him look reasonable and "modern" but it just made him a hypocrite who was in a hurry to bang a girl young enough to be his daughter. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by ursula

[LanceM]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

Viserys being deaf, dumb and blind to Rhaenyra's Strong boys, when he literally once gave her abortion tea is also nonsensical. 

He is not blind to it, he knows it is true, just like he knew it was true that Rhaenyra had sex and sent her the moon tea.

[ursula]

5 minutes ago, LanceM said:

He is not blind to it, he knows it is true, just like he knew it was true that Rhaenyra had sex and sent her the moon tea.

Him knowing for certain in the show is actually worse. In the books, Viserys was in a state of happy delusion where he might have had some fleeting doubts, but he refused to entertain them. 

That show-Viserys knows, and he's still insisting that she'll be Queen after him is nonsensical. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by ursula

[mac123x]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:42 PM, Constantinople said:

Alicent (to Aemond): You will have a dragon one day.
Helaena (to herself): He'll have to close an eye.
Nice foreshadowing.

I caught that too!  Said so matter-of-factly.  I did wonder if her previous statement about the millipede had a hidden meaning - "the last segment has no legs at all".  It was probably just more "hey, Helaena is a little odd" dialog.

Regarding Aegon's exhibitionism out the window Tommen later dives from, was that a subtle nod to the fact that there's a video on the interwebs of Tommen's actor (Dean Charles Chapman) and his cousin jerking off for a webcam audience?  

[Fool to cry]

I'm glad the time jump and change in actresses confirmed my opinion Rhaenyra is Princess Anne.

[Roseanna]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:58 AM, ursula said:

Murdering his family IMO made no sense, but it looks like the show wants to make Larys the designated Big Bad, which makes sense for a screen adaptation where the audience needs someone to specifically root for or against.

It made sense in two ways: by getting the Hand killed, Larys opened the way to Alicent's father to get the position back, and with this act he made Alicent, although horified, united with him. She of course hadn't known when she had earlier spoken to Larys that it's a classic way not to give a direct command but say "Who will let me go of this man?"

But of course Larys wouldn't have killed his family if he hadn't hated them.

 

[Roseanna]

On 9/28/2022 at 3:15 AM, ursula said:

I've gone from thinking making Alicent and Rhaenyra besties was a great idea to realizing it was a terrible idea because it skews so many characters's motives and makes certain plots nonsensical. Alicent going from "Rhaenyra had premarital sex and lied to ME about it" to "Rhaenyra will murder my children" is a stretch even by medieval deadly political standards. 

I haven't read the books, but I think it's a great idea: it made their fight personal and therefore so bitter. It seems a stretch IMO only because of ten years' gap. 

Rhaenyra felt that Alicent betrayed her by marrying her father after which she terminated their friendship which Alicent on her part regarded as a rejection of her. The consequence was that Alicent had only her father to depend on and little by little she begin to beleive what he said.  

Later, in the same time Alicent has dutifully fulfilled her duty by sleeping with her older husband and giving birth to his children, Rhaenyra had done just what she wanted and, although acting morally wrong in that age, got away with it - so of course Alicent both condemns her deeds and, unconciously, is envious of freedom she herself can't have.       

On 9/28/2022 at 3:25 AM, ursula said:

Him knowing for certain in the show is actually worse. In the books, Viserys was in a state of happy delusion where he might have had some fleeting doubts, but he refused to entertain them. 

That show-Viserys knows, and he's still insisting that she'll be Queen after him is nonsensical. 

I agree. If Viserys knew, he would have forced to make the decision. Either to act according to the morality of the age: Rhaenyra's sons had no right to succession, nor she as an adulterer. Or, if he for some reason decided that these things were of no consequence, he would at least seen the warning signs of the feud between Alicent and Rhaenyra. 

His reaction "boys are boys" was highly irresponsible, as he also saw with his own eyes how Cole made Aegon attack on Jake, and later heard insults and saw Harwin's reaction - and was later told by his father that he would take his son home. 

Insults couldn't just be dismissed at that age, they were deadly serious.