Spoilers And Speculations: Or Where We Do *Not* Complain About Canon

[Nick24]

Didn't John say that the mysterious stranger just vanished? I mean, if that was Dean, how could Dean vanish if he was on his own? Does he have some abilities now? Maybe Dean's become an angel or even replaced Gack😊

[Casseiopeia]

Okay this is from a conversation on another site. Did anyone else notice this from the Pilot?

"Did everyone catch the black Impala growling up to a parking spot before they meet? Like seconds before. John even turned to look at it and because of that distraction he ran into Mary. Coincidence? We think not. And the way Dean in his narration said "In order to do that I had to go back to the beginning". Even more interesting is the Impala was there and moments later it was gone. And yet there was zero engine sounds of her leaving. And in her place was a brown and white Mustang. We are talking minutes. Not even the time it took for Mary and Johns conversation."

[jenrising]

8 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Okay this is from a conversation on another site. Did anyone else notice this from the Pilot?

"Did everyone catch the black Impala growling up to a parking spot before they meet? Like seconds before. John even turned to look at it and because of that distraction he ran into Mary. Coincidence? We think not. And the way Dean in his narration said "In order to do that I had to go back to the beginning". Even more interesting is the Impala was there and moments later it was gone. And yet there was zero engine sounds of her leaving. And in her place was a brown and white Mustang. We are talking minutes. Not even the time it took for Mary and Johns conversation."

They're mistaken. I'm just rewatching now and it's the brown and white car he turns to look at. 

[Lastcall]

17 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Didn't John say that the mysterious stranger just vanished? I mean, if that was Dean, how could Dean vanish if he was on his own? Does he have some abilities now? Maybe Dean's become an angel or even replaced Gack😊

It's possible, Dean is being sent back and forth from Heaven changing things but Dean fighting Akrida in the present and John and Mary fighting in the past seems overly complicated. I think they are keeping things simple.

Robbie said in interviews that there were easter egg clues in the Dean scene for where he is. I think the license plates shows it's the heaven impala, but the trains and power lines show its on earth. My current theory is that Dean was sent to 1972, it was a one-way trip and he is on his own. His mission is to find out what is really happening and to get John and Mary ready for the Akrida fight from behind the scenes. I think he is human without any Angel powers and vanishing in front of John was either a Batman type thing or heaven was able to help him set things up before he got stuck in the 70's. The journal is Dean explaining everything to Sam with the intention of mailing it to him in the future ala Samuel Colt and the Phoenix ash. I think Dean will be alive in the 70's as long as the show is on the air. It gives Jensen a lot of flexibility to be on the show as little or as much as he wants, and I know he would love playing Dean in that time. 

[tessathereaper]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:24 PM, Nick24 said:

That's the story I'd love!

I wouldn't. Why would you love a story where Dean screws up the past and has to fix it?

On 10/12/2022 at 2:13 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Giving him a little mission - and an important one at that - after that stupid death in the mothership would be very neat, I would love it. 

I`m not at all bothered by any "canon"-tweaking they are doing. Even if the mothership hadn`t dragged canon behind a shed, violated it repeatedly and then killed it, even IN the show John and Mary are always like one Angel-mindwipe away from conforming back to the timeline. And since this all takes place before that, they can seriously do whatever they want.   

Poor John and Mary as the parents of Dean and Sam really did get f'd over by "the powers that be" of the SPN universe, almost as badly as Dean and Sam did, only neither of them knew it before they died.  

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I wouldn't. Why would you love a story where Dean screws up the past and has to fix it?

And really, Dean going back in time and setting things in motion, thereby confirming it was a closed time-loop where he had to go back to make the "story" happen was already done in "In the Beginning". Like, literally, it was that story. Would they really re-do it?

Now everything could certainly be as easy as Dean in Heaven simply narrates the story but then, seriously why would he "still not have all the puzzle pieces yet" himself? I reckon if there is one place those would be super-easy to get would be after his death. 

Timeline-wise, there are some periods that could account for Dean being alone and Sam being elsewhere, like Sam in College (I know Dean looks older than Pilot!Dean now but with such short tidbits they could get away with it), Sam in the Cage, a couple of splits during the show. 

I would kinda count out pre-SPN-Dean because then you would have to mindwipe him also because he certainly didn`t know all this when the show started. Kinda same with the year he spent with Lisa, on top of other things. Not un-doable of course.

If he is doing this from Heaven, why? It`s not just him doing a hunt there because that might be heaven for him, he is solving a puzzle? And if they tie it into the present where the Akreeda are once again a threat, is he involved in solving it from Heaven in the present? 

[Nick24]

58 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I wouldn't. Why would you love a story where Dean screws up the past and has to fix it?

I guess I've come to the point that I'd love anything not Sam-related. Kinda desperation.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Synopsis for episode 1.04 ''Masters of War''

Quote

FIGHTER’S INSTINCT – After the details of a veteran’s death don’t add up, Carlos (JoJo Fleites) brings everyone in to investigate and he shares a detail about his past that makes John (Drake Rodger) see him in a new light. Mary (Meg Donnelly) finds an unexpected ally who has been hot on the trail of this monster and Latika (Nida Khurshid) tries to help Mary heal and find closure with someone she lost. Meanwhile, John’s habit of running headfirst into danger leaves Millie (Bianca Kajlich) worried for her son. John Kretchmer directed the episode written by Julia Cooperman (#104). Original Airdate 11/1/2022.

[Casseiopeia]

10 hours ago, jenrising said:

They're mistaken. I'm just rewatching now and it's the brown and white car he turns to look at. 

That is what John saw when he turned around. The split second before it was an Impala. 

[FlickChick]

2 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

That is what John saw when he turned around. The split second before it was an Impala. 

I'm going to see if I can catch sight of the Impala. I'll let you know.

[jenrising]

4 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

That is what John saw when he turned around. The split second before it was an Impala. 

Not that I can see. The brown car drives up into the empty space, it's visible in the reflection of the ticket window before it enters the frame properly, from behind the woman John is passing.

[Casseiopeia]

24 minutes ago, jenrising said:

Not that I can see. The brown car drives up into the empty space, it's visible in the reflection of the ticket window before it enters the frame properly, from behind the woman John is passing.

Do you have a video of that moment? I can show it to those that are arguing about it.

[Nick24]

Looks like Henry is going to show up in Ep 7. Isn't Samuel supposed to make his first appearance in that episode, too? Sounds very promising.

https://tvline.com/2022/10/13/the-winchesters-supernatural-gil-mckinney-cast-henry-winchester/

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

Looks like Henry is going to show up in Ep 7. Isn't Samuel supposed to make his first appearance in that episode, too? Sounds very promising.

https://tvline.com/2022/10/13/the-winchesters-supernatural-gil-mckinney-cast-henry-winchester/

He would be a flashback most likely? Or a time traveller again?

[Nick24]

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He would be a flashback most likely? Or a time traveller again?

There are no details, but they can go either way, I guess. If a time traveller, then they might give them some kind of family hunt - Mary/John, Henry/Millie, Samuel/Deanna. 

[Nick24]

Actually, Dean might summon Henry to 1972 somehow in order to help Mary and John. Of course, in this case they'll need to explain why Dean cannot interact with them directly, but Robbie is capable of making up something creative. 

I've been thinking if Dean set up something in the past that led to some tragic (in his perception) event in the future, that might explain ''Bloody Mary''. I don't think they'll go there but they could give a closure to some of Dean's dropped SLs. 

More importantly, maybe, just maybe, Robbie could tie up Dean's mission and his possible help with the Akrida situation to ''The Righteous Man/The True Servant of Heaven'' thing. If Dean is/was in Heaven and there is that Akrida threat to all the existence, Dean might be the only one who can participate (indirectly?) in the fight because of his once established status. That will be nice, if Robbie uses some of those opportunities. 

[PAForrest]

21 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

If he is doing this from Heaven, why? It`s not just him doing a hunt there because that might be heaven for him, he is solving a puzzle? And if they tie it into the present where the Akreeda are once again a threat, is he involved in solving it from Heaven in the present? 

I watched the episode again yesterday, and my current daily armchair quarterbacking has me thinking the Akreeda are a new threat that entered existence via this previous timeline. In other words, they didn't exist originally at this point or any point when Dean was alive, but because they are not of this world, they came through at an older point in time and and have to be stopped there. And this may be why Dean is brought off the bench, as it were, to help stop the Akreeda by working to put things back on the path. Like if it wasn't an angel who appeared to John with the key, then maybe it was Dean himself, helped by Heaven via angels, like Cas.

As for why Sam isn't there with Dean and who Dean is writing to, my further guess is that all this happens while Sam is still alive on Earth, not deceased yet, which gives Dean even more motivation to do what he can to put things back on track.

So post Dean death, but prior to Sam death.

Edited October 14, 2022 by PAForrest

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

I watched the episode again yesterday, and my current daily armchair quarterbacking has me thinking the Akreeda are a new threat that entered existence via this previous timeline. In other words, they didn't exist originally at this point or any point when Dean was alive, but because they are not of this world, they came through at an older point in time and and have to be stopped there. And this may be why Dean is brought off the bench, as it were, to help stop the Akreeda by working to put things back on the path. Like if it wasn't an angel who appeared to John with the key, then maybe it was Dean himself, helped by Heaven via angels, like Cas.

As for why Sam isn't there with Dean and who Dean is writing to, my further guess is that all this happens while Sam is still alive on Earth, not deceased yet, which gives Dean even more motivation to do what he can to put things back on track.

So post Dean death, but prior to Sam death.

Not gonna lie.

I would love this so much.

I've always been of the opinion that Dean Winchester would never be happy unless he was somehow, and in some way, saving people and hunting things, in that order.

And that shouldn't change even after he dies and goes to Heaven, again IMO. 

So this post fits in every way to me and it even fits with what Jensen said about the SPN fandom understanding better why Sam can't be a part of things for the time being. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Myrelle

[tessathereaper]

That's why I always liked that fanfic where Dean and Sam kind of don't ever die, they just keep hunting, like some sort of demigods... IMO I always kind of thought of Dean as a hunter through and through, "saving people, hunting things" is in his soul, I just can't imagine even death changing that. He could never NOT want to help.

I just couldn't imagine him sitting around heaven for eternity basically doing nothing.  So I would like it if s*** hit the fan and he was put back on the job to try and fix it.

Edited October 14, 2022 by tessathereaper

[PAForrest]

22 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I've always been of the opinion that Dean Winchester would never be happy unless he was somehow, and in some way, saving people and hunting things, in that order.

And that shouldn't change even after he dies and goes to Heaven, again IMO.

And you're in good company with Jensen himself, because he's said the same multiple times at conventions - that Gack or whoever could easily resurrect the Winchesters to face a threat on Earth, and that he didn't consider Dean's death to be the end of it. Dean is who he is, on Earth and in Heaven - in fact, the Heaven we saw in Dabb's trainwreck of a finale was so boring that Dean wouldn't be able to handle it for more than a Heavenly day anyway. So this would be quintessential Dean Winchester, dead or not. Heaven is alerted to the threat coming via the past, and Dean Winchester would be the first to sign up to help.

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

I watched the episode again yesterday, and my current daily armchair quarterbacking has me thinking the Akreeda are a new threat that entered existence via this previous timeline. In other words, they didn't exist originally at this point or any point when Dean was alive, but because they are not of this world, they came through at an older point in time and and have to be stopped there. And this may be why Dean is brought off the bench, as it were, to help stop the Akreeda by working to put things back on the path. Like if it wasn't an angel who appeared to John with the key, then maybe it was Dean himself, helped by Heaven via angels, like Cas.

As for why Sam isn't there with Dean and who Dean is writing to, my further guess is that all this happens while Sam is still alive on Earth, not deceased yet, which gives Dean even more motivation to do what he can to put things back on track.

So post Dean death, but prior to Sam death.

The Akrida are the key too all of it. They may be grander than typical alien invader. Maybe when Chuck stopped writing the story it allowed the Akrida to invade multiple points in history at the same time. They could exist outside of creation like the Empty and Jack is maintaining his hands off policy. Invading 1972 alters reality and Dean has to make John become an apex hunter earlier than he was suppose to and keep Mary from retiring so they can become the 70’s equivalent of Sam and Dean. Since the Akita exist outside of reality when they are ultimately defeated, reality returns to they way it was before the incursions.

[Nick24]

34 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

They could exist outside of creation like the Empty and Jack is maintaining his hands off policy.

Or the Akrida has killed Jack. Brutally. For good. 

[tessathereaper]

52 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

The Akrida are the key too all of it. They may be grander than typical alien invader. Maybe when Chuck stopped writing the story it allowed the Akrida to invade multiple points in history at the same time. They could exist outside of creation like the Empty and Jack is maintaining his hands off policy. Invading 1972 alters reality and Dean has to make John become an apex hunter earlier than he was suppose to and keep Mary from retiring so they can become the 70’s equivalent of Sam and Dean. Since the Akita exist outside of reality when they are ultimately defeated, reality returns to they way it was before the incursions.

Agreed.  I mean they aren't "space aliens", they are basically from another dimension, as you say like The Empty is, outside of time and space.

[Lastcall]

27 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Agreed.  I mean they aren't "space aliens", they are basically from another dimension, as you say like The Empty is, outside of time and space.

Yeah, and to make it even weirder, the invasion kicks everything off. When it starts Dean is sent back. Dean can’t ask anyone in heaven about it because it hasn’t happened yet. The invasion is the actual now. The souls in heaven get the new memories as they happen. The show is secretly a sequel to Supernatural, not a prequel because it actually takes place after the mothership. It does sound like a Doctor Who episode though very Timey Wimey.

[tessathereaper]

11 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Yeah, and to make it even weirder, the invasion kicks everything off. When it starts Dean is sent back. Dean can’t ask anyone in heaven about it because it hasn’t happened yet. The invasion is the actual now. The souls in heaven get the new memories as they happen. The show is secretly a sequel to Supernatural, not a prequel because it actually takes place after the mothership. It does sound like a Doctor Who episode though very Timey Wimey.

God I love that idea, how do you think Dean gets involved?  How is he the one who either is approached or who recognizes something is happening himself?

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, Nick24 said:

Or the Akrida has killed Jack. Brutally. For good. 

He has always been a gullible, easily manipulated idiot so the Akrida could sell him a back of goods and he would let them in.   

[Featherhat]

I guess one of the Akrida is the "demon" cupping John and Mary in their hands on that poster, unless that was entirely for artistic effect. 

[Nick24]

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He has always been a gullible, easily manipulated idiot so the Akrida could sell him a back of goods and he would let them in.   

THIS!!! I mean, it's even better! That would prove, that Jack sucks at being God and Dean could kill him for that!!!! With all torture (Alastair school, of course). Robbie, I'm begging you, do it!

P.S. If the Akrida did kill Jack, that would be a problem, because that Akrida would be my hero. So, it better be Dean.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Nick24

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

God I love that idea, how do you think Dean gets involved?  How is he the one who either is approached or who recognizes something is happening himself?

I would go with Heaven still has the power problem. Dean is in the middle of his heaven ride and slams on the brakes when Castiel appears in the middle of the road. The basic premise is explained, Dean is given the mission and there is only enough celestial power available for a one way trip for Dean and Baby. 

They could go the ghost route, which would explain the “mysterious stranger disappeared in front me” but I don’t think they would want to deal with the effects or ghost Deus ex Machina problem. 

Mostly, I would love to see them establish that Chuck is NOT writing the prequel.

[MAK]

It would be awesome if instead of the Heaven and Light brigade, Dean is sent on this mission by Rowena and/or Amara. 

They've kind of hinted, heavily and more than once, that Ruth could be involved. And she would be alive back in the 70s. 

[Lastcall]

6 hours ago, MAK said:

It would be awesome if instead of the Heaven and Light brigade, Dean is sent on this mission by Rowena and/or Amara. 

They've kind of hinted, heavily and more than once, that Ruth could be involved. And she would be alive back in the 70s. 

Rowena could be a possibility. She is the Queen of Hell which would be under attack too. Plus, she got the magic boost and has the season 11 time travel spell. One of Dean's missions could be to get 70's Rowena into the battle.

Thought of another possibility. With all the work they are throwing Gil's way they might have Heaven Henry send him. That would explain the letter and the key and Henry might have a vague idea what Akrida are from his MOL years.

[Nick24]

That was Samuel at the beginning of the episode, right? And that monster what jumped onto him was the Akrida, wasn't it? Well, that thing wants to wipe out everything. But how? Killing is pointless, because humans would go to Heaven/Hell, demons/angels to the Empty, monsters to Purgatory, but the Akrida wants to get all of those dimensions IIRC. So, that thing has to either destroy everything completely or send all beings somewhere out of the reality, maybe to the place where it came from. Maybe that thing sent Samuel somewhere out of space and time, where Samuel might've found some way to reach to Henry somehow, for instance. Samuel might've known about Henry, because Ada had known him. And this is how they both are showing up in the same episode. 

As for Dean, I prefer if he is sent on this mission by himself. He might've noticed that something wrong had started going on in Heaven, so he started digging and this is how Dean's mission might've been born. 

[ahrtee]

Before ya'll start getting too worked up about Dean's role here, remember that, as VO, he's not actually a part of the story.  He's the observer, narrating for the viewers, not a participant in the search for answers.   So it may be interesting to find out why he's started his "mission" (and yes, it would be fun to see guest shots from Rowena or Cas or whoever to show how he found out about the problem) I don't expect him to be involved in the action.  Sorry.  I'd love to have Dean back.

Maybe if the show gets renewed and he doesn't continue with Big Sky, Jensen might take a more active part in the Winchesters, but I'd say not this year.  

[Lastcall]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Before ya'll start getting too worked up about Dean's role here, remember that, as VO, he's not actually a part of the story.  He's the observer, narrating for the viewers, not a participant in the search for answers.   So it may be interesting to find out why he's started his "mission" (and yes, it would be fun to see guest shots from Rowena or Cas or whoever to show how he found out about the problem) I don't expect him to be involved in the action.  Sorry.  I'd love to have Dean back.

Maybe if the show gets renewed and he doesn't continue with Big Sky, Jensen might take a more active part in the Winchesters, but I'd say not this year.  

Yeah, I know but it really feels like there may be more to this than a narration. I listened to the then and now podcast and Jensen was asked if we will see him in more episodes or if it was just for the pilot. Paraphrasing, he said he is narrating every episode, but he will be in more episodes (this season) as soon he finishes playing Sheriff in Montana. Then there were the NYCC Robbie interviews asked about guest stars, and he kept hinting that we may see that handsome character (Jensen) near the end when he shows all the cards. Also, he said there were clues to where Dean was and when in Jensen's scene. I don't know why they would need to explain anything if it's just a narration.

There was also the Jensen Daneel interview where they said Jensen and Robbie had a wish list of things they want to do, and Daneel is reminding them to remember the love story. I think there are things they wanted to do in the Mothership that they want to do now that they have a chance. I think one of the main things they want to do is rehabilitate John and Mary's reputation and giving John, Mary and Dean a make peace moment like Sam and John had in 300 is one of the many possible ways they may want to do. 

Lastly, I keep thinking what an atom bomb drop it would be if they revealed Dean was alive in the 70's. The buzz would be insane and there would be so much free press that it makes too much business sense not to do. Obviously there a million ways they could go and I'm fine with whatever they do but they have given a lot of hints that this is more than just a narration. Whatever they come up with will be better than anything that comes up here. I'm just happy to be hopeful and excited about this show again after feeling nothing but absolute dread over upcoming episodes starting at the middle of season 12 when I realized what Dabb was doing.

[PAForrest]

15 hours ago, Lastcall said:

I'm just happy to be hopeful and excited about this show again after feeling nothing but absolute dread over upcoming episodes starting at the middle of season 12 when I realized what Dabb was doing.

This, bottom line. I'm seeing the same sentiment pop up everywhere, how awesome it is to actually speculate about Supernatural again, and have fun doing it, much like fans did in the first five seasons of the show. Dread was the default for oh too many seasons after that, especially those last few seasons. And the finale made way too many fans feel like they wasted 15 years of their life on this show.

So whatever happens, and however they wrap up this season, it's already a refreshing change of pace to wonder and talk about the ways they could go with this story.

[tessathereaper]

That's exactly how I feel.  This is fun.  It hasn't been fun speculating about Supernatural for years before the show ended.  Just a feeling of dread and what were they going to try and ruin next?  But this is great, esp because right now everything is open and there are so many possibilities.

[Nick24]

I've read the theory that it wasn't Samuel at the beginning of 1.01. The issue is that that man used his blood to open whatever he was opening. Well, it was supposed to be the blood of the man of letters. As far as we know Samuel wasn't one of them, though. So, he probably wouldn't be able to open it. The only man of letter alive in 70s is that man from ''Blade Runners'', but I doubt it was him. What if Henry? Or even Dean? 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

We don't have the writers thread, so I'll put it here. Watching how properly Robbie&Co. handled the conflict between the characters in tonight episode and how they handled John/Millie issue, I can't help myself but think, what Supernatural could have been like if Robbie had become the showrunner after S11. We've lost so much, I guess. Very sad. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nick24

[PAForrest]

2 hours ago, Nick24 said:

We don't have the writers thread, so I'll put it here. Watching how properly Robbie&Co. handled the conflict between the characters in tonight episode and how they handled John/Millie issue, I can't help myself but think, what Supernatural could have been like if Robbie had become the showrunner after S11. We've lost so much, I guess. Very sad. 

Thinking exactly the same. This show lost so much when RT left. What a hugely superior difference it would have made if RT had been the showrunner to bring the series to conclusion.

[Nick24]

As long as we don't have ''All Episodes'' thread either, I'm here again. What I love most about the first two episodes is their atmosphere. It feels like home, it feels like something close to you, personal, something you want to come back to. This is exactly the way I was feeling about SPN watching its better seasons. Characters, music, mystery, plot, monsters. I have no words to explain how much I want this show to succeed. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nick24

[Bergamot]

3 hours ago, Nick24 said:

we don't have ''All Episodes'' thread

You could open an All Episodes Talk thread if you wanted, couldn't you? And a Production People topic to talk about writers, directors, producers and so on. I think that's allowed, isn't it?

[Nick24]

4 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

You could open an All Episodes Talk thread if you wanted, couldn't you? And a Production People topic to talk about writers, directors, producers and so on. I think that's allowed, isn't it?

I know, but I don't think we have enough episodes for such threads at this moment. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nick24

[tessathereaper]

13 hours ago, Nick24 said:

We don't have the writers thread, so I'll put it here. Watching how properly Robbie&Co. handled the conflict between the characters in tonight episode and how they handled John/Millie issue, I can't help myself but think, what Supernatural could have been like if Robbie had become the showrunner after S11. We've lost so much, I guess. Very sad. 

LOL Lots of us seemed to be thinking that because me too.  That's because Robbie isn't lazy.  They aren't looking for an easy way to cause "drama" just for the sake of drama.  The character conflicts mean something.

[Lastcall]

17 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Thinking exactly the same. This show lost so much when RT left. What a hugely superior difference it would have made if RT had been the showrunner to bring the series to conclusion.

Thought about that myself. Love how he handles the monsters and lore, but Singer seemed to be the one pushing to get away from that and he would still have been as big a part of the show as he was with Dabb. However, Robbie loves Dean, and we would have gotten the 4 seasons of pro Dean stories we lost as well as Jensen possibly being interested enough to stay for more. We could have been talking about season eighteen right now in that world. 

Right now, I'm thankful for what we got. There is a chance Robbie and Jensen can undo some of that damage and we will get a good story out of it. The hooded figure at the end was so coded Rowena that I think there will be a lot of disappointed fans if she is not. Also, seems like the team is being herded for some reason. The mysterious figure that gave John the letter might been connected to the Akrida. It seems that there are forces that want John and Mary involved in this and collecting something from their hunts. I'm not even sure if Samuel Campbell killed the Zombies. The whole thing could have been staged to get John and Mary to hunt the Tunda.

[Nick24]

12 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

The whole destiny can't be changed is from the og series doesn't seem to apply here. And this in no way will "erase" or screw with canon and lore of the og series as Jensen and Robbie promised.  If that is the case this John won't influence the og Sam and Dean in any way.  It's a completely different story...it has to be.

My point is that in order for the series to continue the original series has to stay a different timeline to the one TW is in. If this timeline is corrected or married back to the original series then the The Winchesters series is over or canon and lore will be changed. I don't think that is the end game Robbie and Jensen have in mind.

Destiny couldn't be changed in Ep 4.03, but it wasn't the case in Ep 5.13, when Anna's plans to kill Mary and John in 70s were framed as the real threat. If destiny couldn't be changed, why Dean, Cas and Sam were so worried about her plans? IMO We can't rely on any of the original show so-called rules, because those rules worked only when the writers wanted them to, and they didn't work when they didn't want them to.

Dean’s narration from wherever he is, and Mary/John journey in 70s here might be happening at the same time. This could also explain Dean’s words about Mary/John not knowing what the Akrida is going to do. For example, as it was suggested before, the Akrida started its business in 70s on Earth, but the consequences are seen in Heaven or wherever Dean is, because that thing exists out of space and time. So, we are at the point when in Dean’s timeline all of the original show events have already happened, but in order to fight the Akrida Dean makes John become a hunter earlier. This can’t change anything, because everything’s happened in the main timeline. Well, this might not be prequel per se, rather sequel with timetraveling, though, but who knows. The question is what they will do after ending the Akrida, but we’ll figure it out in Ep.13, I guess.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Nick24

[Bergamot]

From the article linked in the Media topic:

Drake says:

Quote

Episode 4 is a big one for John. It’s a Vietnam-centered, trauma-based episode revealing who this John Winchester guy is. Then, as the series goes on, it’s heavily centered around who is John and how well do we actually know him? 

I like the sound of this! I was hoping that the show would touch on how John's time in the military affected him.

[Lastcall]

23 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Dean’s narration from wherever he is, and Mary/John journey in 70s here might be happening at the same time. This could also explain Dean’s words about Mary/John not knowing what the Akrida is going to do. For example, as it was suggested before, the Akrida started its business in 70s on Earth, but the consequences are seen in Heaven or wherever Dean is, because that thing exists out of space and time. So, we are at the point when in Dean’s timeline all of the original show events have already happened, but in order to fight the Akrida Dean makes John become a hunter earlier. This can’t change anything, because everything’s happened in the main timeline. Well, this might not be prequel per se, rather sequel with timetraveling, though, but who knows. The question is what they will do after ending the Akrida, but we’ll figure it out in Ep.13, I guess.

I'm not ready to give up on the Dean in the 70's theory just yet. Robbie said there were clues to where and when Dean is in the pilot. It's obviously not in heaven and even if the Akrida have made it look miserable it doesn't explain why Dean is writing to Sam. The clues to me are the license plate, the visuals of the road he is on, the samulet and why is he writing to Sam. Whether he is on Heaven or Earth, the only reason he would be writing to Sam is if he thought he wouldn't be able to explain to him what happened. To me that means either he plans on sending it to Sam or expects the journal to find its way to him if he dies.

I have been thinking about an alternate theory though after the first two episodes. I think the hooded figure is Rowena and that the spider creatures aren't actually the Akrida. I heard another fan say he thought it was the Queen of Hell Rowena who time travelled back. It's possible but even if its 70's Rowena she would be fighting to save existence. I think it's possible that Rowena captured Samuel and he is either willingly working with her or he is under her spell. Samuel could be the person that gave John the note and everything could be an elaborate manipulation of John and Mary for some reason. Alternately, Dean could also be in the seventies and working his own plan to counter Rowena's. Robbie said there were clues as to what the 13 reveal is and obviously the hooded figure was a big one. Next episode will be interesting to see if this is an actual trend. I'm very excited about that one...I think they are hunting a Dybbuk.

[tessathereaper]

3 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

I'm not ready to give up on the Dean in the 70's theory just yet. Robbie said there were clues to where and when Dean is in the pilot. It's obviously not in heaven and even if the Akrida have made it look miserable it doesn't explain why Dean is writing to Sam. The clues to me are the license plate, the visuals of the road he is on, the samulet and why is he writing to Sam. Whether he is on Heaven or Earth, the only reason he would be writing to Sam is if he thought he wouldn't be able to explain to him what happened. To me that means either he plans on sending it to Sam or expects the journal to find its way to him if he dies.

I have been thinking about an alternate theory though after the first two episodes. I think the hooded figure is Rowena and that the spider creatures aren't actually the Akrida. I heard another fan say he thought it was the Queen of Hell Rowena who time travelled back. It's possible but even if its 70's Rowena she would be fighting to save existence. I think it's possible that Rowena captured Samuel and he is either willingly working with her or he is under her spell. Samuel could be the person that gave John the note and everything could be an elaborate manipulation of John and Mary for some reason. Alternately, Dean could also be in the seventies and working his own plan to counter Rowena's. Robbie said there were clues as to what the 13 reveal is and obviously the hooded figure was a big one. Next episode will be interesting to see if this is an actual trend. I'm very excited about that one...I think they are hunting a Dybbuk.

I don't think anything in the show itself says he's writing to Sam. Unless it was mentioned by Robbie or Jensen(I don't know), I think that's just kind of an assumption people have made.  In the older script drafts I've seen - he's not writing to Sam because Sam is there.  In those drafts the show is set in the time between when they defeated Chuck and when Dean died, because Miracle was also there and Dean literally mentions Sam.  I'm pretty sure they've changed that now but I don't think they've necessarily changed the fact that he isn't writing it to Sam.

[Bergamot]

Here's a promo for next week's episode:

[Aeryn13]

25 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Here's a promo for next week's episode:

I like that more scenes seem to be in darkness or semi-darkness compared to last ep. I know nightshoots (especially night outdoor shoots) are expensive (unless you do some camera magic filter) but to me it`s always more scary in the darkness.