S04.E05: Chapter Five: The Nina Project

[nodorothyparker]

So another season another trashing of the Byers house, only this time by super secret government agents instead of supernaturals.

This one felt overlong and really stretched out far too thin in too many separate directions. The fight on the plane went on forever as did the Hopper returns to Russian prison story, although as the child of a Vietnam vet who dealt with the aftereffects of Agent Orange until he died I did appreciate the show slowing a bit to remind us that this was an ongoing thing with plenty of the dads and uncles and other adult men in our lives at the time. This is also about the same time all the various Vietnam movies started coming out and people who hadn't previously wanted to talk about it started to do so. (Not kidding, 1986 is when my parents dropped teenage me off alone to see Platoon, I guess on the theory that it was better for me to get my context of the Vietnam War that way than asking a lot of questions my dad didn't want to answer.) Regardless, I really really need the show to wrap up all the disparate adult storylines and get them back on the larger canvas.

Eleven waking up in her cold cell with the hospital gown and shaved head again was a gut punch, but validated my sense last episode that Owens wasn't quite the genial good guy giving her a real choice he was presenting as. Ye gods Brenner is an abusive prick mind fucking her until she couldn't tell if she was in the present day or back in 1979 when the lab rat massacre happened. I know we're all here because we fell in love with a story about a strange little girl with incredible powers that we want to see her get back, but damn, be careful what you wish for. This was genuinely hard to watch.

I like the Creel house as a set piece and I loved the kids playing off each other. I've never had any strong feelings about Lucas and Max before as they've mostly been played as the typical dysfunctional teen romance for laughs, but the actors were showing nice chemistry and a sense of shared history with each other. Still don't care anything about Steve and Nancy as a pairing but they are starting to feel like they protest just a little too much. The vigilante jocks can disappear any time now.

Poor Argyll still hasn't figured out what kind of show he's in, wanting to leave a pizza box tombstone listing everybody for anyone to find over the body they're trying to hide in the desert.  And now we're off to Utah to add yet another character to the increasingly crowded cast.

[lidarose9]

I've resorted to fast-forwarding through all the Russia/Alaska scenes and the scenes with El and Brenner. This is just torture porn.

[Hotel Snarker]

Jonathan was so traumatized by Suzie's singing that he lost all his NYU photographer ambitions and turned into a stoner. I wonder if the move was awful for everyone. Although I felt there was little to nothing said about Will.

“Do you need to be told everything?” I’m crying, Steve and Dustin are great.

Murray being a black belt in karate but only ever sparring against kids is fucking hilarious, especially hearing him defend it. I was expecting that to go comedically horrible and was pleasantly surprised. 

Glad to see Eleven with her powers back. The scene where 'papa' took out a handkerchief only to wipe his own blood and leave hers was a great subtle reminder of where his interests lie. If I was 11 I would play along with them, get my powers back, then murder everyone in that bunker.

Eddie’s uncle with the casual sigh about having to move due to the upside down leaking into his house….

Of all the new characters I really like Eddie. Dude’s had a tough run of it so far. Poor thing has had to see that disturbing shit twice now.

Mr. Wheeler being a dick to Dustin like “sure, take us for all we’re worth.” And Dustin’s sassy “Okay!” Fucking killed me.

Watching the part when Hopper revealed that his daughter and the children of his comrades died because of Agent Orange, and admitted that it was in fact chemical weapon and not just herbicide...is soothing as a Vietnamese. Vietnamese NGOs have campaigned for decades for the US government to take accountability for their motive and action when it comes to Agent Orange, and generations of Vietnamese still endure the horrible consequences of AO today, but I don't think many Americans have a great awareness about this issue. Seeing a big media platform like this talk about Agent Orange and its mutual destruct to not Vietnamese but also American soldiers handling it...it's deeply cathartic and I really appreciate this from the writers team.

Owens is fucking sick for not telling El about Brenner. That’s her abuser. I’m not gonna like it if this is gonna be painted as Brenner’s “redemption” arc.

[edhopper]

Just a guess. After she helps defeat the demon, El goes to Russia to rescue Hopper.

[CCTC]

On 6/6/2022 at 1:11 AM, Hava said:

Eleven has never been a favorite character of mine (blasphemy, I know!), so I don't really care about her storyline, and Russia is so out of place.

I liked her story in season 1, but am kind of tired of the perils of Eleven at this point.  I feel like we have seen the same teary expression or the look of anger about to blow a few too many times.  I find the other kids more interesting.

On 6/21/2022 at 5:17 PM, Snow Fairy said:

But why go on this forced route with El? She decided to go with Owen, she knows things are serious. If they explaned her what she needs to do, I think she would do it. And maybe it would be faster

I like the show, but if it has a chance to show a character in some sort of mental or physical torment, it never goes for the subtle approach, especially with El and Hopper.

Sadly, I don't think the jock boyfriend is going to stop foaming at the mouth but go from thinking Eddie physically killed her but is possessed and used some demonic powers.  Would prefer him to have a season 1 Steve moment and reluctantly join forces with the crew but am not holding my breath.

I don't want Steve and Nancy back together as a couple but like to see them interacting.  Really at the end of the series, Nancy should move on from both and go off to college on her own.  I don't think either of them are right for her, and I like Steve.  I really hope they do not feel the need to couple everyone off by the end.  

I am guessing the karate scene was a nod to the Karate Kid and the copycats.  I appreciate some of the Joyce and Murray comic scenes as a brief break from the tension, but other times it just stops the flow a bit too much.   While I don't want to go back to the season 1 Joyce where she was constantly gnashing her teeth and on the verge of a breakdown, it does seem a bit off of how she is just kind of shrugging her shoulders and gives a comic reaction to everything.  Not to join the chorus, but the show would be better without the entire Russian plot.

[SharonH58]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:13 AM, CCTC said:

I liked her story in season 1, but am kind of tired of the perils of Eleven at this point.  I feel like we have seen the same teary expression or the look of anger about to blow a few too many times.  I find the other kids more interesting.

I fast forwarded thru all of El's stuff and stopped when it looked like something interesting might be happening.  To me, she is a one note character and what are her powers anyway?   She can push stuff,  semi close gates from the Upside Down but that is about it.  I find her and Mike boring too.  Aso my 2 cents,  Will knows how Mike feels about El and it would be stupid for him all of a sudden say he loves him.  Let poor Will have some happiness and find a boy at school.  Also also,  how is El in the same grade as Will when she's never been to school?

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, SharonH58 said:

 how is El in the same grade as Will when she's never been to school?

My guess that Joyce came up with an explanation like El was home-schooled and hadn't yet found her education files (not sure of the right phrase so that's what I with), and since she was the same age as Will, put them in the same grade. My understanding of U.S public schools is that what grade you are assigned to is based on how old you will be in September with a few exceptions. Without anything else to go on other than her age, they up her in the same grade as Will. 

[Taryn74]

12 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

My understanding of U.S public schools is that what grade you are assigned to is based on how old you will be in September with a few exceptions. Without anything else to go on other than her age, they up her in the same grade as Will. 

Yep. If she was truly behind in any individual subjects, she should have been in remedial classes for those subjects, but her overall grade would be more in line with her age rather than level of learning. Kids are sometimes held back a year but usually not more than that, so you don't have 18 year olds in ninth grade or whatever.

[bijoux]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:06 PM, Anela said:

The girl in season two, said that Eleven's "papa" was still alive, didn't she? The one who was number eight.

It was actually the guy they went to kill, he was also the one to administer electroshock therapy to El's mom.

I want Brenner to die a hundred slow agonizing deaths, but seeing El with her shaved head made me want to rip his throat out then and there. Just like that he turned her back into his guinea pig and negated the actual person she's been becoming since fleeing the lab. The girl with positive parental figures, who likes to watch Miami Vice and gorge on Eggos with her dad, make out with her (admittedly currently lame) boyfriend, hang out with her friends, gossip about boys with her girlfriend... Poof, all deleted. Here's hoping they dunk your ass into the Upside Down for monsters to take a bite out of, yank you back up, dunk you down again and so on into eternity. Ass face.

If I were trying to hide a secret base of operations, I too would erect a door seemingly leading to nowhere in the middle of the desert. Super inconspicuous. 

[conquistador]

This was a weak episode, especially coming off of the highs of the previous one. I hated most about it - still intrigued by the investigations in Hawkins though.

The Russia plot really drags and makes the episodes much longer than they need to be. Hopper’s monologue was actually not bad, but how jarring is it to go from horrific war stories to Austin Powers’ judo chop in an airplane.

[Nashville]

On 8/2/2022 at 2:13 PM, bijoux said:

If I were trying to hide a secret base of operations, I too would erect a door seemingly leading to nowhere in the middle of the desert. Super inconspicuous. 

Uh.. yeah it is, actually.

We’re talking A door - singular - with the absolute minimum footprint possible for upright access by more than one human at a time.   
And, it’s in the middle of a fucking desert - which anybody who’s ever actually been in the middle of a fucking desert can guarantee you, the middle of a fucking desert is pretty much the biggest collection of NOTHING in existence.  That’s pretty much the functional definition of a desert: a great big  honkin’ patch of NOTHING.

So unless you either (a) already know where this door is or (b) can see it from a road - if it’s in the middle of a fucking desert, you ain’t finding the shit, you ain’t stumbling across the shit, and you ain’t finding nobody to tell you where the shit is.  You’re up shit creek - but minus the creek, because you’re in a fucking desert.

So security-wise - a door in the middle of a fucking desert?  Not too damn bad.  😉

[QuantumMechanic]

11 hours ago, Nashville said:

So unless you either (a) already know where this door is or (b) can see it from a road - if it’s in the middle of a fucking desert, you ain’t finding the shit, you ain’t stumbling across the shit, and you ain’t finding nobody to tell you where the shit is.  You’re up shit creek - but minus the creek, because you’re in a fucking desert.

Or can see it from a plane, satellite, etc., which is quite possible.

[Taryn74]

Okay, I may be CRAZY, but something I noticed watching this episode tonight (slight spoiler for a later episode so I'm using tags) -

Spoiler

when Dr. Owens is taking El into the underground lab he says hello to the scientists working there. The first woman on the left looks EXACTLY like an older version of Dustin's girlfriend Suzie. Remember when the guys get to Suzie's house and there's a thousand kids and a dad but her mom is nowhere to be found? ARE WE GOING TO FIND OUT NEXT SEASON THAT SUZIE'S MOM WORKS FOR DR. OWENS AND BRENNER?!

I am only halfway joking. You can never tell with this show, LOL.

[Nashville]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:30 AM, QuantumMechanic said:

Or can see it from a plane, satellite, etc., which is quite possible.

Assuming, of course, the top of the entryway is isn’t painted or otherwise camouflaged to match the surrounding terrain. 😉

This discussion does give rise to an interesting proof-of-concept demonstration, though: the set does exist, after all, and is somewhere in the vicinity of Thoreau, NM.  Anybody think their Google Maps skills are up to the challenge of finding it?  😁

[Quickbeam]

I am not sure why they developed Jonathan’s character for years to let him be a one nite stoner now, who looks middle aged. I hate the Russian plot…I’ve seen Hogan’s Heroes episodes with more realism.