Breeders Season 3 Discussion

[aghst]

S03.E01: No Direction Home

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Paul and the family deal with the consequences of the decision he made to move out for the good of Luke. Good and bad past family events in flashbacks occupy their thoughts.

S03.E02:  

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The family are accepting their separation routines. Paul gets comfortable with his new calm and serene locale; Ally solely deals with the harried and hectic lifestyle of kids, compounded by a crisis at work.

 

I thought that with the original child actors, depicted as barely older than toddlers, and then production delays due to the pandemic, where we saw new actors for the children during season 2, they were having to adjust because of the long durations in between seasons.

But now I'm starting to think it might have been the plan all along, just to show the relationships over time, especially as the children aged.  Or maybe they adjusted on the fly.

Season 3 starts with Paul out of the house, watching his family playing a game through the security cam, texting Ally.  Cliffhanger in season 2 is that Luke refused to live in the same house.  He punched Paul and kept looking to run away so at least temporarily, Paul decided to hang out as his mother in law's house, because as it happened she was away on an extended trip.

First two seasons, there were numerous scenes of Paul cursing out Luke from the time he was an infant.  Luke blames his panic attacks on the verbal abuse, so Paul seems chastened and accommodating, though him being away from home puts all kinds of stresses on Ally and Ava resents that Luke has altered the family dynamic, with Paul's absence.

In flashback, they remember a time when Paul had to take Luke to a public toilet and sing him some soothing song so he can go number 2.  Meanwhile, Ally takes Ava to a store and she disappears, boards a bus carrying girls her age from a school.  For that Paul screams at Ava, who's maybe 5 or 6, to never do it again.

Ava is going through her own issues, having her period, not telling Ally, instead stealing some tampons to keep the secret.

Paul goes home for dinner, it gets late and he and Ally talk about him spending the night.  So Luke is off to sleep over at a friends and Paul tells him to stay home, he'll go back to his mother in law's place, where he meets an attractive neighbor Gabby.

Ally is at the end of her rope, with work issues and the burden of carrying for both children by herself.  Finally Luke invites Paul back to the home, because he had a panic attack about a school presentation when Paul wasn't home.

Paul is somehow able to be more charming, not just with the neighbor but is kind and warm with the children, even helping Luke get out of doing the school presentation by making up a story about a sick family member and pulling him out of school on that day.

Will it hold?  After about a decade of verbal abuse, he's going to just stop?

Well they have at least 8 more episodes this season and maybe future seasons.  Are they going to depict these characters when the children are almost grown up, either going to university or at least out of the home?

 

 

[possibilities]

This was hard to watch but I really liked it. They are showing so many angles on the family dynamic, and it's notable that Paul is having a great time while Aly is struggling, and he has no idea and feels no conscience about any of it.

Also, the way they were just kind of waiting for something to change, without doing anything to change it, is so telling. That's a lot of pressure to put on their son, so that he feels like on the one hand they are "sacrificing" for him but on the other hand it's a guilt trip and he's responsible for the entire family, while they do nothing to address what got them there in the first place. 

Meanwhile, hiding her period from her mother even when there was a relaxed and receptive time for her to tell her (in the car) is a sign that Ava is also going down a spiral path. 

And Aly not having her HRT is going to be a hell of a mess, too. 

They all frankly are annoying. It's realistic, and understandable, and still miserable to watch. But I really appreciate them doing this, because it's rare that such an unflinching indictment of absolutely everyone is shown in a deadpan and not really much exaggerated way. 

[circumvent]

I am half way through the first episode and I can't stand Luke. Sorry, I can't. If it was depression for a reason not specified, I would be more sympathetic. But the way I see is that the kid who was indulged in every way, and his problem is with his dad, so they have to indulge him and do what he wants even if things don't seem to be going well for Ava. 

I read the previous posts so Paul comes back home but I still think this whole thing is being dealt with in a very casual, let's see what happens approach. I can't remember, was Luke ever in therapy? They need counseling not experiments where one parent has to leave the house, one child feels abandoned, the other parent is overwhelmed and the cause of the kid's depression is not discussed. Or maybe it was and I forget.

[possibilities]

He had anxiety and panic attacks, not depression. But I agree they are not addressing any of the various issues actively enough.

I like that it's a fairly complex and nuanced exploration of the family dynamics. But it's not a role model situation on anybody's part.

[circumvent]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

He had anxiety and panic attacks, not depression.

Yes, I realized that once I finished watching the two episodes. I barely remembered what he had said to Paul in the previous season.

[Morgalisa]

I think I must be a sicko.  I love this show. And I think it is hilarious. 

[possibilities]

I love it, too. I wouldn't say I enjoy it, exactly. But it feels nutritious.

As soon as Paul stops yelling, Aly starts. I mean... I guess someone's gotta do it....

[aghst]

Paul's more mindful of cursing out Luke, always has these flashbacks when he was screaming F-bombs at him.

While Ally sees Ava growing apart from the cozy mother-daughter relationship that they used to have.  She feels a certain way about Ava not telling her about having her first period.  Then the grandparents had to have that discussion about feminine hygiene.

Paul is too easily annoyed or Luke is just annoying?

But maybe his back pain go the better of him, before he lost his temper again at the kid.

[circumvent]

I actually kind of like Luke in this episode.

I don't know if I like this show. It is different at least, from the American shows, that's a plus. But I think it leaves too much to wonder, there is never a conclusion or reason for anything. Yes, that's life but that's too much life for me.

I don't know how old the actors who play the ids are but they look way too old and mature to be playing the characters. Not so much Luke, but Ava. I have be trying to remember the 10 year-olds I have met recently, comparing them with how Ava acts, reacts, and I cannot see any resemblance in attitude and maturity. My niece is 11 and is very much a little girl on how she is in the family. She is adorable but would not be able to deal with things like Ava does. The closest I got was an 11 year-old I met (she is older now) who was very mature and responsible for her age, but not even this girl gets close to Ava. I know people are different but sometimes it seems the actors are much older and the writers are writing for the actors' age, not the characters'. Or maybe it is a mix of culture and not great writing. What I know is that I watched those kids as if they are more like 13 and 15, instead of 10 and 13

[circumvent]

The latest episode wasn't too bad but the writers need to stop doing the everyone is depressing thing. Now that Luke is more open to talk, it is Ava's turn to be depressed. Do the writers have any more ideas? 

As an aside, Paul shouldn't be in the gym, he should be having physical therapy. The type of work required is very different from what gym instructors can provide. I have a terrible back, nothing like Paul's but at times I can't even stand straight. Chiropractor helps, physical therapy doesn't really, but they gave me a series of exercises that can be helpful in preventing more pain - once the one needing treatment is gone. Gym, no. Unless you are pain free, they will not even allow you in because of liability. Maybe it is different in the UK but I would have to see or hear a first hand account of this to believe. 

[aghst]

Kids are going to have to grow up because the parents are feeling the aches and pains of old age, Paul with his back and Ally with premenopausal symptoms?

Ally's job situation is uncertain as well.

Can't be all bleak raising children while entering middle age?

[candall]

I don't have children and I haven't seen the first two seasons, so I am completely unqualified to comment, but . . . 

I think it's CRACKERS that this whole family has been thrown into chaos because one of the kids wants his dad to move out.

I can just imagine the looks on everyone's faces if one of my childhood friends had insisted Daddy go find a different place to live.  Everyone would have started with the assumption there was sexual molestation involved.

[howiveaddict]

4 hours ago, candall said:

I don't have children and I haven't seen the first two seasons, so I am completely unqualified to comment, but . . . 

I think it's CRACKERS that this whole family has been thrown into chaos because one of the kids wants his dad to move out.

I can just imagine the looks on everyone's faces if one of my childhood friends had insisted Daddy go find a different place to live.  Everyone would have started with the assumption there was sexual molestation involved.

Yep.  Back in my day we didn’t let the kids  control the family.   
I felt bad for Paul’s dad’s lover dying and for the mother finding out she was betrayed.   

[aghst]

Things look pretty bleak.

How does this family persevere?

Both their job situations are unsatisfactory or precarious and now the kids bLame the parents.

I was thinking Paul just seemed to stop being a rageaholic, cursing up a storm.  But Ava dumps on Ally and Ally blames Paul’s anger for causing so much strife.

They try to weave in some humor but it’s unpleasant to watch, teenage angst and middle age malaise.  Now even the seniors are going to have drama.

[SusieQ]

Paul said he never blew up at his job. How is that possible? The Paul we saw in the first two seasons raged at EVERYTHING when he was with his family. He was frightening, his rages were scary. I know everyone sometimes blows up, but from what we saw it was a constant thing with him. To me it was abusive.

So if it's true that he didn't blow up at work, it says to me that he can control himself when he wants to. Which makes his behavior at home even more egregious.

i said in season two I didn't understand why Ally was still with him. Her come to Jesus moment now is a bit late.

and that last scene, wow. So sad for Paul's mom.

[cinsays]

I didn't see the earlier seasons, was that as depressing as this one?

Is this supposed to be a comedy? Everyone is sad or depressed or angry most of the time.

Are we supposed to be able to read the text messages they are constantly showing?

Are you all able to watch this show without the closed captioning - I can't understand most of what is being said.

I don't know why I am continuing to watch this, I do not find anything at all enjoyable about it.

[Adgirl]

I'm not a parent so I just think Luke is a bit of an asshole. He's like his father that way ;-)

Is this show supposed to be about people who shouldn't be parents?  Paul's rages are very realistic. However, in real life he wouldn't rage out loud he'd do it in his head or in a game like most of us.

I could not empathize with Ally's menopause storyline at all. I also cannot empathize with routinely fucking up when it comes to your daughter and throwing out your husband to please your entitled son.

It's unfortunate that Ava is getting the short end of the stick due to a lack of guidance and a true confidant. I typed that then realized Ava did have one friend/confidant and Ally fucked that up too. I honestly don't get Ally.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Adgirl

[cinsays]

13 hours ago, Adgirl said:

I'm not a parent so I just think Luke is a bit of an asshole. He's like his father that way ;-)

Is this show supposed to be about people who shouldn't be parents?  Paul's rages are very realistic. However, in real life he wouldn't rage out loud he'd do it in his head or in a game like most of us.

I could not empathize with Ally's menopause storyline at all. I also cannot empathize with routinely fucking up when it comes to your daughter and throwing out your husband to please your entitled son.

It's unfortunate that Ava is getting the short end of the stick due to a lack of guidance and a true confidant. I typed that then realized Ava did have one friend/confidant and Ally fucked that up too. I honestly don't get Ally.

I think they're all pretty screwed up people and not anybody i would want to know.
Paul should know better than to rage like that and Ally just seems like a downer of a person.

Ava throwing the test and then having her friend pass.  Who didn't see that coming? Hopefully, she can retest.  I guess that would have to happen, right?

Luke is really the only one i can kind of stand and that's just barely.

[gingerella]

This show is full of awful people. It's so like Better Things in that sense, alas.

[aghst]

I can understand Paul being upset.  Ava was set up to be high achiever, could have studied medicine.

But she self-sabotaged.

I don't think it was nearly as bad as him yelling right at Luke's face.  In fact, Ava seemed more distraught that her friend was upset than Paul cursing.

They have to deal with drama with the kids, drama at work, and now drama with the parents, from the previews for the next episode.

[cardigirl]

This show has had its moments for me. Ally is the one this season that I can't stand, all of her blaming her bad behavior on menopause. Jeez, it's not like she's dealing with cancer or anything. 

This latest episode was very Ally light. so I'm sure that's why I liked it so much. Or one of the reasons I did. But the actors playing Paul's mum and dad just knocked it out of the park!  What a tour de force performance from both of them. I was riveted to the screen. 

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

This show has had its moments for me. Ally is the one this season that I can't stand, all of her blaming her bad behavior on menopause. Jeez, it's not like she's dealing with cancer or anything. 

This latest episode was very Ally light. so I'm sure that's why I liked it so much. Or one of the reasons I did. But the actors playing Paul's mum and dad just knocked it out of the park!  What a tour de force performance from both of them. I was riveted to the screen. 

Agreed!  The less I see of Ally the better.  Will be interesting to see how it works with Paul's parents.  How will Ally be able to cope with her mother-in-law on top of her DREADFUL MENOPAUSE!!!!!!!

[aghst]

16 hours ago, cardigirl said:

This show has had its moments for me. Ally is the one this season that I can't stand, all of her blaming her bad behavior on menopause. Jeez, it's not like she's dealing with cancer or anything. 

This latest episode was very Ally light. so I'm sure that's why I liked it so much. Or one of the reasons I did. But the actors playing Paul's mum and dad just knocked it out of the park!  What a tour de force performance from both of them. I was riveted to the screen. 

14 hours ago, cinsays said:

Agreed!  The less I see of Ally the better.  Will be interesting to see how it works with Paul's parents.  How will Ally be able to cope with her mother-in-law on top of her DREADFUL MENOPAUSE!!!!!!!

Yeah this episode kind of seems self-contained.  I was thinking this drama with his parents wouldn't affect his family until Jackie asked to stay with Paul's family.

I wonder if they wanted to let these two older actors really let loose and showcase their chops, because they've mostly been on the periphery.

Even his father thinks Paul has anger issues.

Looks like Paul and Ally are already clashing over Ava.

[Bluesky]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:59 PM, Morgalisa said:

I think I must be a sicko.  I love this show. And I think it is hilarious. 

The funniest scenes were with Paul’s parents.  A perfect match. Of course they had to bring them down, moving them into a dark apartment and causing them to separate.   

[cinsays]

9 hours ago, Bluesky said:

The funniest scenes were with Paul’s parents.  A perfect match. Of course they had to bring them down, moving them into a dark apartment and causing them to separate.   

I don't think the dark apartment had anything to do with their separating.

This was the first episode that I really enjoyed.  The parents were a hoot and I am glad we are seeing more of them. And Ava's bedtime talks with granny were lovely and helpful for both of them.

Not liking that Paul's dad lost it at the end.  I guess he'll end up in a bad way and he and his wife will come back together.

[aghst]

Kids are doing better but now the parents are crumbling.

Paul’s innocuous friendship with Gabby becomes a thing.

Nice wide shots of the London skyline.  Still doesn’t feel like London but i guess those of us who visit never see residential neighborhoods.

Would think driving everywhere would be a hassle with the parking and traffic.

[Bluesky]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:15 AM, cinsays said:

I don't think the dark apartment had anything to do with their separating.

This was the first episode that I really enjoyed.  The parents were a hoot and I am glad we are seeing more of them. And Ava's bedtime talks with granny were lovely and helpful for both of them.

Not liking that Paul's dad lost it at the end.  I guess he'll end up in a bad way and he and his wife will come back together.

No, the apartment wasn’t about the break up.  It’s just a list of the depressing things they’ve done to the grandparents.  I liked their role as the funny ones.  

[SoMuchTV]

Just bumping because there’s a new episode (maybe season finale?). I don’t usually have enough thoughts to post about, but I am still watching. But I don’t always realize a new episode is out until I see new posts here. 

[aghst]

I think that was the season finale, assuming it's renewed.

The actors playing the parents are terrific but this whole plot about them splitting up seemed to come out of nowhere.

Maybe it's suppose to parallel Paul and Ally's fights but they're arguing about the kids or are having arguments precipitated by things the kids say and do.

I guess the grandfather OD'ing caused the family to join ranks and kind of cool it on their squabbles for awhile, though Ally was ready to tear Paul a new one, though he mocked her being upset about befriending Gabby when Luke complained that his friend is making him choose between him and his ex-girlfriend -- "imagine that."

Ava is just entering high school in preparation for going to university and she's deeply religious, praying as much as 2 hours.  She's got to be all of 13 or so and she carries all that burden, including trying to keep Jim's secret note because she worries that her grandmother won't go back to him if she found out it was a suicide attempt.

Ava is brilliant academically and Luke is talented but they're both such high maintenance for such high maintenance couple to parent them.

[circumvent]

On 7/12/2022 at 9:53 PM, aghst said:

She's got to be all of 13 or so

Ava is 11. The actress seems to be much older. The casting for the kids when they time jumped was really bad

[aghst]

She's on the verge of entering high school, it sounded like.

That's what all the testing is for?

[circumvent]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:43 PM, aghst said:

She's on the verge of entering high school, it sounded like.

That's what all the testing is for?

I believe the term "heigh school" has different meanings in the US and UK. I am sure Ava is 11, there was a birthday episode, Paul also mentioned it a couple of episodes ago.

[aghst]

Didn't she just have her period?

Also the way Ava and Paul were talking, she said she could go to this lesser school, outshine other students, then get a good shot at university.

So she's about to enter the equivalent of high school, the last school before applying for universities, not like junior high schools.

Also, an 11-year old checking on her grandfather?  Seems like a lot of latitude given by her parents.  Last season, they just started letting her walk to school by herself, gave her a phone to track her.  This season, they had her go to grandfather's home by herself, in addition to going to and from school, visiting with friends, etc.

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Didn't she just have her period?

Also the way Ava and Paul were talking, she said she could go to this lesser school, outshine other students, then get a good shot at university.

So she's about to enter the equivalent of high school, the last school before applying for universities, not like junior high schools.

Also, an 11-year old checking on her grandfather?  Seems like a lot of latitude given by her parents.  Last season, they just started letting her walk to school by herself, gave her a phone to track her.  This season, they had her go to grandfather's home by herself, in addition to going to and from school, visiting with friends, etc.

Ava being so mature doesn't make sense and that's why I think the casting was bad. The actor is oder and they seem to be writing for a more mature child.

In any case, "high school" in England is the equivalent as middle school in the US (starting at 5th grade). So Ava is going to "high school". There are also programs in the country that start preparing the kids at a very early age for university. They have SATs (which I think is what Ava took) to get placed in the best schools, where they have a better chance to the best education, leading to the best chances to get to the university of their choice. Remember, education in Europe is nothing like the US. There is no "application" like here. Not only Europeans learn better, they also get a free education  - in England I believe it is limited, therefore the need for students who want or need scholarship to get into the best "high schools". 

[Bluesky]

12 hours ago, circumvent said:

Ava being so mature doesn't make sense and that's why I think the casting was bad. The actor is oder and they seem to be writing for a more mature child.

In any case, "high school" in England is the equivalent as middle school in the US (starting at 5th grade). So Ava is going to "high school". There are also programs in the country that start preparing the kids at a very early age for university. They have SATs (which I think is what Ava took) to get placed in the best schools, where they have a better chance to the best education, leading to the best chances to get to the university of their choice. Remember, education in Europe is nothing like the US. There is no "application" like here. Not only Europeans learn better, they also get a free education  - in England I believe it is limited, therefore the need for students who want or need scholarship to get into the best "high schools". 

Ava is 11 but maybe looks 13.  Not a huge difference like when American movies cast 30 year olds to play high schoolers.  
English schools always confused me.  I think high school ends at 16 and you have to test well to go on to college. It would make sense at 11 you have to start doing well to pass those tests. Do any of the English kids just go to the neighborhood school?  Can everyone  just enroll in a local public school like in the US?

[Pamela]

Breeders Renewed for Season 4