S05.E20: Uncle Sheldon and a Hormonal Firecracker

[Yeah No]

22 hours ago, SusanM said:

If MeeMaw was aware that things had moved beyond a casual flirtation I think she should have talked to Mandy.  She could have  simply opened the conversation with "My grandson just dropped out of high school..." and Mandy would have backed off or we would have had a very different plot line going forward.

In a way, she kind of owed that information to Mandy too or this pregnancy probably would never have happened.  I'm sure Mandy would have appreciated knowing that because it's obvious she would never have gotten involved with him if she had known his true age.

[Gummo]

Aaaand, the transition from sitcom to soap opera is pretty much complete.

Not really enjoying it much anymore. It doesn't help that pubescent Sheldon has lost whatever charm he had as a youngster. 

I really feel for the other 2 kids. They have no support system whatsoever. I doubt this is what was intended, but it's where we are: Missy & Georgie have to cling to each other because they have no one else.

All in all, pretty depressing for a sitcom.

[SusanM]

42 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Missy & Georgie have to cling to each other because they have no one else.

This is exactly what bothered me most about the episode.  Mary and George are so focused on how this affects them that they've barely spared a thought for the other kids, including Georgie!  It's just one more nail in the coffin of their marriage rather than a chance to gather together as a family and deal with a tough issue.  

I did appreciate though that the show made it clear that Mary's concern about being ostracized by her church community wasn't off base.  She was absolutely right - and in fairness to Mary I don't think we are ever given to believe that this is how she would have reacted if one of her friend's was going through a similar problem.  Would have preached the healing power of getting married of course but she wouldn't have shunned them.

Edited May 2, 2022 by SusanM

[proserpina65]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:19 AM, ChitChat said:

Maybe Sheldon remembers things wrong and it's his mom and Pastor Rob who have the affair, and he transfers his anger to his dad.  I know that's stupid, but we've seen TV show writers do dumber things than that! 

I don't think they're going to have an affair.  I don't believe Mary is even thinking in that direction; she just needs someone less judgmental to talk with.  But I do think Pastor Rob feels that way about Mary.

I know I should've felt sorry for Mary at the end, but I didn't.  She reaped what she's sowed.  Being judgmental (and gossipy) about others' transgressions has come back to bite her in the ass.

On 4/29/2022 at 10:56 AM, ahpny said:

If, as George repeatedly argues, Georgie is "an idiot," what does that make Mandy?

Someone who believed Georgie when he said he was older than he is, and possibly someone whose birth control failed.

On 4/29/2022 at 11:18 AM, Welshman in Ca said:

Of course they dropped her, typical self righteous behavior from church goers who spout forgiveness until it applies to them.

She'd have done the same had it been one of them in that position.

On 4/29/2022 at 11:47 AM, ChitChat said:

In defense of church goers, not all of them would act in this way.   Unfortunately, Mary's kind of a leper at the moment, and her friends are letting her down in a most disappointing way.

True, many people would've been understanding.  But it is very representative of the KIND of church they attend, and Mary is very much a part of that church culture.

On 4/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, vibeology said:

Could it turn into an emotional affair? I guess but that's not what this is now. Pastor Rob is her coworker. She confided her family secret to him and took his advice.

This is where Mary is.  I think Pastor Rob is much farther down the line towards emotional affair.

On 4/29/2022 at 4:06 PM, eel21788 said:

Hang in there. Remember how long it took to finally meet Jenny Piccolo on Happy Days?

Given how awful she was, we could've waited forever.

 

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

I did appreciate though that the show made it clear that Mary's concern about being ostracized by her church community wasn't off base.  She was absolutely right - and in fairness to Mary I don't think we are ever given to believe that this is how she would have reacted if one of her friend's was going through a similar problem.  Would have preached the healing power of getting married of course but she wouldn't have shunned them.

I disagree completely.  I think she'd have judged them as harshly as her "friends" have judged her family.

[SusanM]

5 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I disagree completely.  I think she'd have judged them as harshly as her "friends" have judged her family.

I don't see that in Mary at all.  For one thing she herself was once in the position of "having" to get married but mainly I think she is very rigid in her faith but essentially she is also a kind person.  She reached out to Brenda for instance when she needed a friend, despite the way Brenda had always treated the family in the past.  She was also not judgemental at all about Dr Sturgis's mental health issues and immediately went to Sheldon's dorm room to help Paige when Missy told her what was going on.  Mary has her faults but there is nothing they've shown about her on the show to this point that would make me believe she would judge her church friends in the way they are judging her.  

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, SusanM said:

Mary has her faults but there is nothing they've shown about her on the show to this point that would make me believe she would judge her church friends in the way they are judging her. 

I think the fact that she's very rigid in her faith is exactly why.

[tennisgurl]

The talk between Georgie and Missy was so sweet, I always really like their scenes together. Glad that the whole family knows about the pregnancy now, I am really curious about where this is going. I don't remember Georgie having kids in BBT, but they could always just say he didn't mention them I guess. 

It would be wild if, after all of this teasing with George having an affair, it was Mary that had the affair and not George, Sheldon just remembered it wrong because he's such a mammas boy. I hope that they don't have an affair though, I really like Pastor Rob and he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would sleep with a married woman. I can see her leaning on him instead of George leading to more problems though, even this week George was annoyed that Mary listened to Rob and not him despite them basically saying the same thing.

I felt bad for Mary when her bible study friends ditched her. Its easy to say that you shouldn't care about what people think, but that community does mean a lot to her and being ostracized hurts. 

[SusanM]

59 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It would be wild if, after all of this teasing with George having an affair, it was Mary that had the affair and not George, Sheldon just remembered it wrong because he's such a mammas boy. I

The thing is Sheldon doesn't remember things wrong.  He wildly misinterprets things but essentially he is remembering what happened.  If they decide to disregard everything that was said on BBT I can live with that - what I can't deal with is if they take his memories of specific incidents and completely change them to make George look good and Mary look bad.  

[ellenr33]

I almost can't watch this show anymore. I can't watch Mary be such a religious nut and feel like her son is going to hell. She is horribly unlikeable. I hope that George cheats with someone likeable and these kids get to spend every other weekend with someone who will teach that god won't hate them so much if they don't do whatever Mary wants. 

[SusanM]

26 minutes ago, ellenr33 said:

I hope that George cheats with someone likeable and these kids get to spend every other weekend with someone who will teach that god won't hate them so much if they don't do whatever Mary wants. 

Unless they really throw out the established timeline from BBT that isn't going to happen because (please don't link if you aren't aware of BBT canon):

Spoiler

George dies when Sheldon is 14 (so he has two years) and at his death he and Mary are still married - possibly not living together but still married.

 

 

[ahpny]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:15 PM, proserpina65 said:

On 4/29/2022 at 10:56 AM, ahpny said:

If, as George repeatedly argues, Georgie is "an idiot," what does that make Mandy?

Someone who believed Georgie when he said he was older than he is, and possibly someone whose birth control failed

How does Georgie's fibbing about is age absolve Mandy of any responsibility for her actions? Is a 17 year old boy any less likely to get her pregnant than a 21 year old guy? Just as a party's lying about their age is no defense to statutory rape (which she's was only months away from committing), I don't see how Mandy is any less of an "idiot" than Georgie. Indeed, given her full adulthood as opposed to Georgie's 17-year-oldness, she's more of an "idiot" than he is. It still irks that he gets all the blame and Mandy seems to get none. But then again, she is the one who's pregnant, so I get it, a bit.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, ahpny said:

How does Georgie's fibbing about is age absolve Mandy of any responsibility for her actions? Is a 17 year old boy any less likely to get her pregnant than a 21 year old guy? Just as a party's lying about their age is no defense to statutory rape (which she's was only months away from committing), I don't see how Mandy is any less of an "idiot" than Georgie. Indeed, given her full adulthood as opposed to Georgie's 17-year-oldness, she's more of an "idiot" than he is. It still irks that he gets all the blame and Mandy seems to get none. But then again, she is the one who's pregnant, so I get it, a bit.

One of the things making Mandy a potential idiot is how she didn't sense that he was younger than 21.  I would have taken one look at him and known he was younger than that.  But that's an honest mistake and I can forgive her for maybe not having the special talent I have.  Other than that, she might also deserve to be called an idiot if she wasn't taking proper precautions because she's old enough to know better and be more responsible about that.  But if she was doing her best and it failed I can't fault her for that.  No method is 100% effective.

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

. . . Other than that, she might also deserve to be called an idiot if she wasn't taking proper precautions because she's old enough to know better and be more responsible about that.  But if she was doing her best and it failed I can't fault her for that.  No method is 100% effective.

In the 70s, my sister got pregnant when she was on the Pill and had an IUD.

[SusanM]

12 hours ago, ahpny said:

It still irks that he gets all the blame and Mandy seems to get none. But then again, she is the one who's pregnant, so I get it, a bit.

I don't have any blame for Mandy - the lying is all on Georgie.   Where blame is concerned I don't blame Mandy at all for being absolutely furious with Georgie.  An out of wedlock pregnancy in 1990, and I am assuming especially in small town Texas, was no small matter and she finds herself pregnant and the father is a 17 yr old high school drop out.  I'd be furious too.  At myself and at Georgie.  Especially at Georgie.

[Yeah No]

Speaking of 1990, since websites about the show place season 1 at 1989, shouldn't it be in at least 1993 or 4 by now?  I realize TV time is not 100% realistic but they are progressing the kids' ages and the actors themselves are growing up.  But everything around them is staying stagnant and unchanged.

[SusanM]

26 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

But everything around them is staying stagnant and unchanged.

They do reference popular music and TV shows now and then but I admit it, I'm too lazy to check to see if they are exactly right for  the timeline of the show or just more or less current.

[bigseach]

it was just establish that the show is in april of 1992.  they had an episode with isaac asimov's death.

[proserpina65]

14 hours ago, ahpny said:

How does Georgie's fibbing about is age absolve Mandy of any responsibility for her actions? Is a 17 year old boy any less likely to get her pregnant than a 21 year old guy? Just as a party's lying about their age is no defense to statutory rape (which she's was only months away from committing), I don't see how Mandy is any less of an "idiot" than Georgie. Indeed, given her full adulthood as opposed to Georgie's 17-year-oldness, she's more of an "idiot" than he is. It still irks that he gets all the blame and Mandy seems to get none. But then again, she is the one who's pregnant, so I get it, a bit.

As I said, it's entirely possible that her birth control method failed, which does NOT make her more of an idiot than Georgie.

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

One of the things making Mandy a potential idiot is how she didn't sense that he was younger than 21.  I would have taken one look at him and known he was younger than that. 

Eh, I can't tell people's ages just by looking at them.  Some people look way younger than they are; some people look older.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

But everything around them is staying stagnant and unchanged.

They've referenced pop culture things such as music.  (For example, Missy listening to Achy Breaky Heart the other week.)  I don't get the sense that anything is stagnant in that way.

[Yeah No]

28 minutes ago, bigseach said:

it was just establish that the show is in april of 1992.  they had an episode with isaac asimov's death.

Thank you, I hadn't been paying attention.  It's still about 2 years or so behind real life.  But OK.

11 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

They've referenced pop culture things such as music.  (For example, Missy listening to Achy Breaky Heart the other week.)  I don't get the sense that anything is stagnant in that way.

Their home, clothing and cars haven't changed in years and I find that a little bit unrealistic especially for that timeframe.  I didn't have much money back then either but my house, my clothes, my hair, my car and my stuff changed noticeably.  I can date my own life just from looking at photos.  But I get it that this show lives in an alternate universe where shoulder pads never existed, LOL.

14 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Eh, I can't tell people's ages just by looking at them.  Some people look way younger than they are; some people look older.

But young men mature a LOT between the ages of 17 and 21 so it makes it even easier to notice.  But again I guess some people aren't that good at that.

Even my husband said as a 29 year old she should have been able to tell just by the maturity difference since men seem to mature at a slower rate than women in that age bracket.  And as far as I can tell Georgie isn't showing signs of being all that mature for his age either.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Yeah No

[possibilities]

My home looks the same as it looked a decade ago. My mother's house where I grew up never replaced furniture or other decor, either. I don't think TV shows usually change the sets, for that matter. I don't have a problem with this show keeping the general look the same over a few years time.

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, possibilities said:

My home looks the same as it looked a decade ago. My mother's house where I grew up never replaced furniture or other decor, either. I don't think TV shows usually change the sets, for that matter. I don't have a problem with this show keeping the general look the same over a few years time.

Fashions, electronics and household stuff changed rapidly back then.  You didn't have to change your decor to have added a few things here and there that showed you were advancing in time.  I knew very few people back then whose houses looked exactly the same from the 80s into the 90s.  I think the show should pay attention to those things otherwise it starts to look like it's set in the same year 5 years down the road.  It's good that they've put in a few references like Isaac Asimov's death and Achy Breaky Heart but I still think it needs more.  Even the Brady Bunch looked more modern as the seasons progressed and the kids grew up and they didn't really change the set much either.

[possibilities]

I was alive back then. I'm telling you not everybody kept up with the times in that way. We had the same exact landline, for ex, from the early 70s well into the mid-90s.

[Yeah No]

I say all this as my bedroom set turns 42 this year.  But everything around it has changed many times.  Sheldon still has the exact same sheets on his bed.  Stuff like that.  Mary and Meemaw wear the same 5 outfits for 4 years straight and they look brand new every time.  Stuff like that I find unrealistic.  At least show them in a new outfit every now and then.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I was alive back then. I'm telling you not everybody kept up with the times in that way. We had the same exact landline, for ex, from the early 70s well into the mid-90s.

Even the Coopers have obviously advanced more than that.  They have computers, cordless phones, answering machines (that looked just like mine) and VCRs. 

[Bort]

14 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Fashions, electronics and household stuff changed rapidly back then. 

The Coopers being on a fixed income can easily mean that they can’t afford to buy the latest stuff. We had a 70s wooden console tv well into the 90s in my house and it only got replaced when it broke.

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Even the Coopers have obviously advanced more than that.  They have computers, cordless phones, answering machines (that looked just like mine) and VCRs. 

Then technological changes HAVE been reflected by the show.  And while general clothing styles haven't changed much, specific items have.  Which is realistic imo because I know my own clothing styles varied very little back in the early 90s.

The Coopers have a pretty tight budget for the most part.  Changes of wardrobe when clothes still fit and are in good condition would probably not be something Mary would want to spend money on.

 

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Sheldon still has the exact same sheets on his bed.

You think someone like Sheldon would allow his mother to use different sheets on his bed?  I imagine he'd insist she have more than one set of identical sheets.  Hell, I'm not the least bit like him and I'm still using a set of sheets I've owned for more than 17 years.  (It's not my only set but it is the one which has lasted the longest.)

 

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

But I get it that this show lives in an alternate universe where shoulder pads never existed, LOL.

Replied to this in the Small Talk thread, because it seems like a potentially ripe topic:

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Then technological changes HAVE been reflected by the show.  And while general clothing styles haven't changed much, specific items have.  Which is realistic imo because I know my own clothing styles varied very little back in the early 90s.

The Coopers have a pretty tight budget for the most part.  Changes of wardrobe when clothes still fit and are in good condition would probably not be something Mary would want to spend money on.

I had a tight budget too but hairstyles change and the women's clothing is stuck in the early '80s by this time.  Most people would have updated a little by now and it wouldn't have to cost that much.  This is a TV show and they haven't really pressed the point about them living on so little money so it wouldn't be out of the question for some updates to have happened.  If they made a point about them being poor, maybe.  The father is a HS coach, that's not exactly destitute.  I was making far less money than that AND living in NYC so I know what it's like to be poor, and they're not it.

6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

You think someone like Sheldon would allow his mother to use different sheets on his bed?  I imagine he'd insist she have more than one set of identical sheets.

I do actually.  I would have thought by this time he'd be wanting superheroes on his bed.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Yeah No

[proserpina65]

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

I had a tight budget too but hairstyles change and the women's clothing is stuck in the early '80s by this time.  Most people would have updated a little by now and it wouldn't have to cost that much.  This is a TV show and they haven't really pressed the point about them living on so little money so it wouldn't be out of the question for some updates to have happened.  If they made a point about them being poor, maybe.

I do actually.  I would have thought by this time he'd be wanting superheroes on his bed.

I'm not going to continue to argue about this, so we'll have to agree to disagree because I think the show HAS shown incremental changes.

[ahpny]

8 hours ago, SusanM said:

I don't have any blame for Mandy - the lying is all on Georgie.   Where blame is concerned I don't blame Mandy at all for being absolutely furious with Georgie.

Really? She’s totally blameless here? What if the guy were 29 and the girl were 17, but lied and said she was 21. Would the 29 year old guy be blameless there too?

She might rightfully be angry because had she known his true age, she may have decided not to sleep with him at all. But regardless  of his falsely presented age, she did decide to sleep with him (repeatedly apparently) and she should accept responsibility for that. Moreover, she’s the adult, he’s barely legal.

[OlderThanDirt]

Realistically, I believe Mandy would have left town as soon as she found out she was pregnant, especially if she didn't want her parents to find out. She could be anonymous and working in a city more easily than in a small Texas town. 

[SusanM]

30 minutes ago, ahpny said:

What if the guy were 29 and the girl were 17, but lied and said she was 21. Would the 29 year old guy be blameless there too?

Blameless or not he wouldn't be the one pregnant.  Anyway the difference here is that a 29 yr old man would, at least theoretically, be in a position to marry and support a woman who is about to have his child, or certainly if marriage is off the table be able to pay child support.  I don't think Mandy is going to be wanting to marry a 17 yr old high school dropout who lives in his parent's basement and, realistically, he's not going to be able to provide much financial assistance at least in the foreseeable future.

[Prairie Rose]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:54 AM, ChitChat said:

I figure they'll go the route of her having a miscarriage and then things will get back to normal.  If that happens, it should be a huge wakeup call for Georgie to be more careful with his relationships in the future and not to lie about his age or anything else to women!!

That's my guess as to what will happen. TBBT never mentioned Georgie having any kids. (Yes, I know there are inconsistencies, but this would be a rather large one.)

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, SusanM said:

 . . . a 29 yr old man would, at least theoretically, be in a position to marry and support a woman who is about to have his child, or certainly if marriage is off the table be able to pay child support. . .

While the odds of a  29-year-old being gainfully employed are more likely than those of a 17-year-old HS dropout, I did meet my ex when he was 31 and unemployed with just a high school diploma (and yes, in case you're wondering, I was definitely old enough to know better☹️).
At least Georgie has been employed and isn't out running up credit card debt --Not that I am suggesting they should get married. 
But, theoretically, with regards to this:

4 hours ago, SusanM said:

. . . he's not going to be able to provide much financial assistance at least in the foreseeable future.

In terms of life expectancy, isn't there is a better chance that Georgie will not be thinking of retirement when Mandy's baby is ready to go to college, etc.? 
IDK. Statistically it might depend upon whether or not he gets a GED, a Bachelor's degree, and/or an advanced degree.
And, yeah, I suspect becoming a father as a teen might statistically diminish the odds of Georgie continuing his education. 🤷‍♀️

But I doubt Mary or George will be discussing any of this with Georgie.

[PWHCHCH]

Not sure if this was a YS first, and if it wasn’t, it may have been mentioned on an earlier episode thread but this episode was directed by Shiri Appleby who played Liz in Roswell 

[SusanM]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But I doubt Mary or George will be discussing any of this with Georgie.

Have they even discussed anything with him?  In the confines of a 17 minute show I concede that these conversations may be assumed to taking place off screen so to speak.  But still all I can remember about their talks with Georgie it's really Mary saying "get married and everything will be better" and George saying "getting married ruined my life and it will ruin yours too".  Well words to that effect.  

That's my big beef with this whole storyline, it seems to be constructed more to show Mary and George and the Great Disintegrating Marriage and Georgie and Mandy are collateral damage.

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 5/5/2022 at 7:33 AM, SusanM said:

But still all I can remember about their talks with Georgie it's really Mary saying "get married and everything will be better" and George saying "getting married ruined my life and it will ruin yours too".  Well words to that effect.  

George's comments summed up the feeling of many working class families back in those days.  Up until then, it was almost a given that if you worked hard and made sacrifices for your kids, then they would have it better than you had it.  It was almost automatic.

George's generation was the first to realize that no matter how hard they worked, no matter what sacrifices they made, there was no longer a guarantee that their kids would have it better than they did.