S06.E07: Sticks and Stones

[kwnyc]

As to the Browns' "committee" riding. up at the end...I'm still inclined to think that as a colony, they had to follow British law. Do they have a warrant? What is the charge?

(Remember when Lord John quickly dispensed with the charges against Jamie in the Caribbean? Because they hadn't been properly brought and there was no witness.)

I sure hope Jamie has some pull with the Governor...and that everyone Claire's helped with her new-fangled doctorin' remembers it.

[BitterApple]

This season has been such a slog, but there were a few funny moments this episode. Jamie double-checking to see which twin he was marrying to Lizzie, and Claire having to sit through Lizzie's, um, vivid description of her sexy times with the boys. Claire is so forward thinking even for the 1970s, but even she was like "TMI, sweetie," the more Lizzie went into detail. 

Bree and Roger leaving seemed so random and abrupt. Like all of you have said, it's clearly plot device to get them off the Ridge, but it doesn't make much sense. 

Another thing I'm not understanding is why Jamie's putting up with all this crap from the Fisher folk. He should've told them to pack their shit and leave a long time ago. 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Another thing I'm not understanding is why Jamie's putting up with all this crap from the Fisher folk. He should've told them to pack their shit and leave a long time ago. 

So much this. And it's what I hope will happen by the end of the finale. Ungrateful twats.

[DoctorAtomic]

57 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Another thing I'm not understanding is why Jamie's putting up with all this crap from the Fisher folk. He should've told them to pack their shit and leave a long time ago. 

Christie came to Jamie with the flyer promising a new start for the Scots that were in prison with him. I don't think Jamie would kick them out just based on that. And if he did, they'd probably blame Claire anyway. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

I meant to say earlier, I don't fault Roger and Bree for leaving, 'cause they don't know they're in a drama.

[Pallas]

11 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I don't fault Roger and Bree for leaving, 'cause they don't know they're in a drama.

But wouldn't the time travel tip them off? And the thing where two men are really one man -- twice?  

[iMonrey]

Quote

In the midst of all the turmoil, I really liked Bree and Roger talking about Perry Mason over the dinner table, and that when Ian asked about him they talked about him like he's a real person, some much needed comedy. It would be hilarious if Bree and Roger just kept making small pop culture references from their time but always forget to tell Ian that what they're talking about isn't real. Ian becomes very concerned about those poor people on that island who got stranded after their three hour tour sometime in the future! 

It bugged me that all Brianna said was "he's a lawyer from our time" without adding he's a fictional character. Then I figured she doesn't want to have to explain to Ian was TV is. 

[gingerella]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:33 AM, Pallas said:

Because being violated hollows you out, and self-hatred rushes in. To herself, despite herself, Claire is damaged goods. And she also feels that way because of who she is. Achievers like Claire, especially, tend to believe that they "deserve" what their hard work and accomplishments have brought them, and apply that sense of deserved outcomes to other aspects of their lives. We prefer to live in a world where calamities happen to us for a reason, not because we all live and die contingently. Claire is first of all a doer and a doctor, and she's been turned inside out. It's her world that's been turned upside down. 

Eloquently put Pallas, and while expected, it is also unexpected, probably because from the beginning of this Show we have seen Claire almost be raped literally more times than we can remember, and she always escaped just barely, but nearly always seemed a bit too chipper considering she just missed being brutally raped yet again. The only two life events that have brought her to despair and laid bare her ability to feel fear like the rest of us, has been the loss of Faith, and now this rape. Two events that would buckle any normal person, and yet because we have seen Claire bounce back again and again and yet again, it is somehow all the more unsettling to see her really struggling now, at least to me it is.

I have to say it - Sam's portrayal of Jamie this season is rather abysmal for me. He seems to barely exude any emotion other than slightly pained boredom with others. I had heard that Sam and Cait were going to be co-producers on the Show starting with S05 and I had high hopes coming off the shit show that was S03/2nd half and S04, that future seasons would improve and we would get back that 'magic' that we all loved so much during S01 - S02. Alas, and dare I say it, but I almost think S06 is worse, and that saddens me greatly. I love this story, at least the beginning of it, but it's just not that compelling anymore and I when I ask myself 'why?', I am reminded of what made S01 and S02 so very wonderful. It wasn't just because the Story was taking place in Scotland - because America is being shot in Scotland so technically we still have the beauty of Scotland as one of the main characters of the show. But those initial 2.5 seasons were filled with a rich and wonderful assortment of secondary and even tertiary characters that filled out the story lines and added a vibrancy that captivated us all. Since mid-S03, we have been presented with an assortment of secondary characters that, let's be frank, are lackluster at best. And now in S06 we are offered a cold plate of steaming shite characters a la the Christie Family and the Fisher Folk. These are not compelling characters to me, they are a small, cohesive little lump of shitty evil characters that are all basically the same one-note. Outlander always had a way of injecting a wee bit of humor at just the right moment, when you absolutely needed an Angus to do something funny, or a Murtagh to say something pithy and smirky. But now the show is all about dour characters trying to do wrong to our protagonist main couple and it just isn't enough to make any story line satisfying to me.

I agree with those who've said that the mentions of modern life from Claire, Brianna, and Roger are some of the finest moments in the show now. It seems like either the writer or the show runners have forgotten that this show is predicated on the concept that time travel is a reality. I always wish we had more delving into that area because as Claire said so poignantly a couple of episodes back, none of them - Claire, Brianna, or Roger - should be there, nor should Jemmy even exist. That's a huge statement to make and then leave it hanging like no big deal. They keep dropping interesting story lines relating to other time travelers like Master Raymond, and now this new Native American guy that spoke to Claire when she was abducted. I'd rather be following those story lines than this crap about what an asshole father Tom Christie is, and how fucked up both his children are. Not interesting to me at all.

And talk about not being able to read the room show runners, with the 'hey, let's have Lizzie and the Twins get hand-fasted into a permanent threesome, and watch hilarity ensue!' It was not the right episode to do that in, and as a result it felt like I was watching scenes from another episode accidentally edited into this one. Ditto all the Brianna/Roger scenes as well.

Also, these people - Jamie, Brianna, Roger - who are all supposed to love Claire sooooooo much, why the fuck are they not circling the proverbial wagons round her and being more attentive as it is painfully obvious she is struggling mightily? Where is Jamie, her alleged soul mate across time? Why is his emoting relegated to making him look like he's constipated and contemplating whether he needs to maketh haste to the privy while his beloved Claire is pouring out her soul about how tormented and in pain she is? I'd say maybe Sam isn't that good of an actor but then I think back to the S01 episode when they are at the river, after he's rescued Claire from BJR, and he goes off on her. Where is that emotion? He doesn't need to explode in the scenes in S06, but FFS, show something other than mild indigestion!

Anyway, I have little hope I'll get a satisfying season ending this week, but I suppose one can always hope...

Edited April 30, 2022 by gingerella

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I had heard that Sam and Cait were going to be co-producers on the Show starting with S05

If I recall correctly, Sam and Cait became producers starting with Season 4, after Ron Moore left. He was still on hand during season 3. I think.

I'm blaming the writers. And the rest of what you posted. I want seasons 1-2 writers back. And I also want a horsie.

[Cdh20]

Sam & Cait became producers in season 5

[SassAndSnacks]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

Eloquently put...

It's like you read my post in the BookTalk thread (and I know you didn't because spoilers and such).  We are so aligned in our feels.  

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

who are all supposed to love Claire sooooooo much, why the fuck are they not circling the proverbial wagons round her and being more attentive as it is painfully obvious she is struggling mightily?

PAH-REACH!

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

his show is predicated on the concept that time travel as a reality.

Wait, what?  This is a time-travel show?!?!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 4/29/2022 at 4:03 PM, gingerella said:

Also, these people - Jamie, Brianna, Roger - who are all supposed to love Claire sooooooo much, why the fuck are they not circling the proverbial wagons round her and being more attentive as it is painfully obvious she is struggling mightily?

In what scenes other than the ones where Claire is by herself and they can't see her has it been obvious?

[Sheikh Yerbouti]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:10 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Alan is creepy. I don't like him. That was odd. I too can see them being close, with their mother dead (tried as a witch) and that father of theirs being so evil,  but as out of place as Claire was to pick up the baby's coffin, Alan's reaction pinged me as well.

I thought we were going too see his reaction ping for the characters as well. The curious, knowing glances between Jamie and Claire as Allan possessively hugged the baby's coffin to his chest. Then cutting to Jamie standing on the porch, staring off into space while the cogs visibly turned in his head. Then what I thought was his "Zoinks! I know who the father is!" moment as he turned on his heels to head into the house. Only to confront Lizzie for her fabulous three-way action. 

On 4/25/2022 at 9:14 PM, Cdh20 said:

Now that I have read ahead of the show, I really miss these episode threads where we try to solve the mystery, and predict the future. I still love reading them. 

Live vicariously through me. I just finished the penultimate episode of all the episodes currently in existence after a monthlong binge of six seasons, and I'm going into the finale still unspoiled about the story ahead.

[SassAndSnacks]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:10 PM, Sheikh Yerbouti said:

I'm going into the finale still unspoiled about the story ahead.

So jealous.  Those first time Outlander feels can really run the gamut of emotions.  

[gingerella]

5 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

So jealous.  Those first time Outlander feels can really run the gamut of emotions.  

And by that I think you mean anger, frustration, and utter bewilderment at many of the story lines and directions taken by either Gabs or TIIC...?!?

[Camera One]

This episode was lacklustre. I thought the season was finally ramping up with two episodes to go, but half this episode was the same-old, same-old with the ether and being ostracized by the community.  I completely understand why Claire is still feeling traumatized, but it has dragged on too long and really dulled the impact of Claire *finally* telling Jamie about her hallucinations and trying to dull the pain with ether. 

While I can see why she feels guilty and the actress did a great job, I just couldn't buy how she was blaming herself for everything that had happened since coming back to Jamie. 

I think the compartmentalization explanation was better, since that's exactly what Claire had to do when she went back to the future and her old life, while dreaming about Jamie in the 1700s.

I've had it up to here with the annoying people on the ridge.  How many times have Claire helped to heal them?  They wouldn't have a home without Jamie and what he did for them.  Even the housekeeper and her husband were being snide.  

I couldn't really see why it was such a big deal that Roger would become a minister.  Better than fighting in the American Revolution, no?  Agreed with the ridiculousness of them leaving at this time of turmoil.

Lizzie and the boys were sort of entertaining (though as gingerella said, it didn't fit the episode tonally).  Though considering how religious she supposedly was, it was hard to believe they had Lizzie not realizing why sleeping with them and getting pregnant out of wedlock would be frowned upon by their community.  If this had been Season 1, they would no doubt have shown the whole affair in living color.

One hour later, and the "investigation" to find the murderer basically went nowhere and now the evil band of jerks are back to arrest Claire.  I suppose with the main characters split up, it is ripe for another separation so we could wait a long time before getting some satisfying reunions mid-way into Season 7.  I would be fine if we're done with Fraser's Ridge, and we get another setting.

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I've had it up to here with the annoying people on the ridge.  How many times have Claire helped to heal them?  They wouldn't have a home without Jamie and what he did for them.  Even the housekeeper and her husband were being snide.  

I keep saying/hoping that Claire, Jamie et al., set the fire themselves to get out of there. I do find setting the show in the south during the revolution is interesting though because you never really see that perspective. I'd pefer they be in a city and more directly involved though. 

You got to watch the next season with us in real time. I watched season 5 on my own and almost gave up on the show. The weekly convos is much more worth it. 

[gingerella]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:40 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

On 3/27/2023 at 12:00 AM, Camera One said:

I've had it up to here with the annoying people on the ridge.  How many times have Claire helped to heal them?  They wouldn't have a home without Jamie and what he did for them.  Even the housekeeper and her husband were being snide.  

I keep saying/hoping that Claire, Jamie et al., set the fire themselves to get out of there. I do find setting the show in the south during the revolution is interesting though because you never really see that perspective. I'd pefer they be in a city and more directly involved though. 

Yup. Same here. The Ridge dwellers are bottom feeders and really, they wouldn't have sided with the Brown clan against J&C so quickly, that was bad story telling to force certain aspects of the story to align. Bad writing IMO. I loathe pretty much everyone that isn't part of J&C's immediate family at this point. This show completely lost its ability to write compelling and entertaining secondary and tertiary characters in the way Show did in S01, 2 and half of 3. Where are the Ruperts and company? People that made us smile, laugh, and cry when we lost them? Malva? Good riddance to bad trash, I say. And the same to the rest of the Ridge dwellers.

[Camera One]

On 3/30/2023 at 12:47 PM, gingerella said:

This show completely lost its ability to write compelling and entertaining secondary and tertiary characters in the way Show did in S01, 2 and half of 3. Where are the Ruperts and company? People that made us smile, laugh, and cry when we lost them? 

Too bad they killed everyone off, leaving us with no one to care about.

Maybe it's because I took such a long break in the middle of the season, but I couldn't remember who was who among the cantankerous Ridge folk.  I was pretty sure last season, there were men lighting fires to unite with Jamie and lines of people out Claire's door to be healed.  Did they all fall through a portal or something?

Ian found that old man with his missing finger bones.  Well, we saw Malva was the one doing disturbing rituals to fall in love or whatever, but now she's dead, and none of the protagonists will find this out, so what's the point?

Edited April 3, 2023 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was pretty sure last season, there were men lighting fires to unite with Jamie and lines of people out Claire's door to be healed.  Did they all fall through a portal or something?

The people who came to Jamie and Claire's house weren't all the Ridge inhabitants, they were primarily the ones from the Protestant fisherfolk village. The more sympathetic ones didn't know it was happening. The Ridge is a big place with multiple settlements. Ian went and brought the Ardsmuir men, but too late because Jamie and Claire had already surrendered.

Also, I myself have more than once been in the position of having gone above and beyond for seemingly nice and friendly people, and then not only did they not do likewise when they had the opportunity, they believed malicious gossip about me right away without proof. So I wish I could say that's unrealistic, but it's not.

14 hours ago, Camera One said:

Ian found that old man with his missing finger bones.  Well, we saw Malva was the one doing disturbing rituals to fall in love or whatever, but now she's dead, and none of the protagonists will find this out, so what's the point?

To establish there was something off about her for the audience before the characters got proof of it.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[gingerella]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:04 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

The people who came to Jamie and Claire's house weren't all the Ridge inhabitants, they were primarily the ones from the Protestant fisherfolk village. The more sympathetic ones didn't know it was happening. The Ridge is a big place with multiple settlements.

I'm not sure if you've read the books or not, but as this is the non book reader area, I would beg to differ. The Show has not really shown us all these multiple settlements, at least not that I've seen nor remembered. The Fisher Folk scumbags have their place, yes, we've seen that. Other folks seem spread out here and there and I don't remember seeing other settlements unless I fell asleep. Other than the Fisher Folk and Brownsville, what other settlements have we been shown? Usually random folks just turn up on J&C's doorstep or we see the odd family compound scattered about.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Other folks seem spread out here and there

Exactly. In small settlements with cabins of one, two or a handful of families each.

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

I'm not sure if you've read the books or not

I am familiar with the books.

8 hours ago, gingerella said:

Other than the Fisher Folk and Brownsville, what other settlements have we been shown? Usually random folks just turn up on J&C's doorstep or we see the odd family compound scattered about.

Brownsville isn't on the Ridge itself, it's in the local area, forty miles away. Jamie isn't the Browns' landlord. A family compound is a settlement. The people living there are settlers.

My point was that there are many more people on the Ridge whose human habitations are spread out, not living in the Protestant fisherfolk village, and not immediately aware of everything happening in other parts of the Ridge.

The Protestant fisherfolk have the tighest and most concentrated community because they built their own village, giving them unwarranted, disproportionate power, which is part of why it was a regretful decision for Jamie and Claire to allow them to settle there and Jamie only did it because his promise to all former Ardsmuir prisoners included Tom Christie. He could see the trouble coming.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness