S01.E07: Our Father, Who Art in Vegas

[Trini]

Thony's marital issues are amplified as Marco begins asking tough questions about her methods of getting Luca life-saving treatments. Meanwhile, Arman is determined to make his way out from under Hayak, but Garrett is hell-bent on foiling his plans.

Airdate: Feb. 21, 2022

 

[Trini]

I like how they mention "marital issues" as if her marriage has in any way been a part of the story so far - LOL!

[Raja]

Well the previous episode had Thony and Arman going beyond a thank you kiss. And Marco demanding that a cleaning lady wire over enough money to bribe an embassy official so he could get a visa.

[paigow]

Marco stays alive only while Luca is sick. 

[Raja]

30 minutes ago, paigow said:

Marco stays alive only while Luca is sick. 

Since this remake made Thony a prestigious surgeon who is here illegally instead of just a cleaning lady the show itself only survives as long as Luca is imperil. If he is cured the de la Rosa's should just fly back home and resume the practice of medicine instead of doing the public health service of cleaning up party buses.

Hopefully the United States would ignore the status of Luca's aunt Fiona and cousin kuya Chris

[Trini]

19 minutes ago, Raja said:

Since this remake made Thony a prestigious surgeon who is here illegally instead of just a cleaning lady the show itself only survives as long as Luca is imperil.  ...

Well, Luca doesn't have to be cured overnight. But besides that, I think there could be other ways to keep Thony and/or Luca in the U.S./attached to the mob, even if he's cured.

[AnimeMania]

Guest Cast: 
Liza Weil as ASAC Katherine Russo
Ivan Shaw as Marco
Harold Fisch as Carlos
Eva De Dominici as Nadia
Dean Allen Williams as Sammy Miller
Josette Canilao as Dara Oum
Eric Ladin as Noah McPherson
Darryl DeLoach as Man
Amber Lynn Ashley as Hostess
Leandro Valdez as Hector
Suzanne Waters as Chanteuse

[Irlandesa]

Goodness, that opening was terrific.  But it also gave me this weird sense of foreboding like the reason they're burning through the attraction/story so quickly is because he's not long for this world.

Especially since we saw him commit cold blooded murder at the very beginning--but boy do I love how the shots blew up that red material and made it look like roses falling down.  Shoot that shit straight into my veins.

As we suspected, Marco turned to gambling away Luca's money. 

Nadia and Arman's marriage confuses me.  Is it open?  Is it closed?  But he has chemistry with her as well.

[magdalene]

10 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Goodness, that opening was terrific.  But it also gave me this weird sense of foreboding like the reason they're burning through the attraction/story so quickly is because he's not long for this world.

They would be stupid to kill him off.   But productions do stupid things all the time.  So, yikes?

[preeya]

31 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

As we suspected, Marco turned to gambling away Luca's money. 

Marco is a "fuknidiot"

[SonofaBiscuit]

Really, show? An “S” (for “sexual situations”) rating at the start of the episode?? You lie!!

Guess we aren’t even going to discuss the kiss, huh? Strange, but OK. Thought Arman would mention it, at least (or go back for seconds — he looked like he was seriously considering it when Thony was checking out that bullet graze).

I can’t say that I would meet a couple asking for part of my liver at their house, but you do you lady. Seems like a good way to end up an organ harvesting/murder victim, gah!

Oh Marco, you’re here for like a day and already you’re stealing money from your wife and gambling it away? Yeah, I wonder why she doesn’t trust you!

Edited February 22, 2022 by SonofaBiscuit

[possibilities]

They're trying to make us hate Marco so it makes Arman look not so bad-- even though Arman just murdered someone (again). I guess it's working. He's extremely unlikable. 

 

[Irlandesa]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

They're trying to make us hate Marco so it makes Arman look not so bad-- even though Arman just murdered someone (again). I guess it's working. He's extremely unlikable. 

 

And to dislike Garrett because he had the audacity of not getting a warrant before taking pics of the guns. 

And normally, I'd resent it but I'm under the spell. (Although I don't hate Garrett.  I kind of like that he's no an imbecile.)

[phoenics]

34 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Goodness, that opening was terrific.  But it also gave me this weird sense of foreboding like the reason they're burning through the attraction/story so quickly is because he's not long for this world.

Especially since we saw him commit cold blooded murder at the very beginning--but boy do I love how the shots blew up that red material and made it look like roses falling down.  Shoot that shit straight into my veins.

As we suspected, Marco turned to gambling away Luca's money. 

Nadia and Arman's marriage confuses me.  Is it open?  Is it closed?  But he has chemistry with her as well.

No way are they gonna kill Arman - but I do believe they are gearing up for a showdown with him and Hayek. In the end there can be only one and I for one think Arman will be on top and Hayek will be dead or in prison. OR Arman will be out of power but still trying to get it back while Thony is still trapped in that life.

I think Arman is pulled between Thony and Nadia because they both represent directions his life could go  Nadia represents Hayek and that thug life while Thony represents his father’s influence and being a good man.

I also predict that Marco is either gonna end up dead maybe due to gambling debt  and maybe it’s one of Arman’s henchmen who kills him, not realizing Arman wouldn’t want the hit. Thony blames him and Arman takes over Hayek’s empire and forces Thony to still work for him.

That opening sequence was FIRE. Wow. Love how Arman was fantasizing about Thony he saw her in the red sequin dress singing.  In too deep indeed.

I think Arman’s marriage is one of convenience - they use each other. But she’s def jealous of Thony.

I also think Garrett will be out of a job by the end of the season - he’s really walking a fine line. How is Arman going to get the guns out of the ranch?

i love this dang show lmao. 

[paigow]

After Marco loses the cash, he sells a kidney and his liver to make up for it....

[possibilities]

I thought they were trying to make us like Garret a little, when they brought his child along in the car, and als when they had Agent Lisa Weil laughing with him. I find him viscerally revolting, though, and I don't think they can turn it around even if they make him behave like a smart and/or decent person at some point.

[Trini]

So Arman's wife is totally going to do that deal herself and take all the money for herself, right? I hope they don't get rid of her, if she does.

Don't really know what to say about Marco; he's more a plot complication than a character. They should have had him more in the story from before, or at least talked about him more if they wanted us to feel something about him. Anyway, for Luca's sake, I hope he doesn't lose ALL the cash gambling.

So they found a liver donor, but the actual surgery has to be done 'under the table'? I mean, that has to sound sketchy to the donor, right? Especially if they were actually going to do the surgery in Mexico. Also, Marco said that they could just go back to the Philippines if they did it in Mexico, but (besides for Luca's health) isn't the liver transplant to get Luca into the clinical trial to treat his condition? So they'd have to get back to the U.S. anyway, right??

13 hours ago, magdalene said:

They would be stupid to kill him off. 

Arman is like half the show; and, I hate to say it, but might be more interesting than Thony. Although Thony's story is more compelling. I don't think they'd kill him off any time soon.

12 hours ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

Really, show? An “S” for “sexual situations” rating at the start of the episode?? You lie!!

LOL! I was waiting for something to happen too. I guess Thony and Marco counted for that??

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought they were trying to make us like Garret a little, when they brought his child along in the car, and als when they had Agent Lisa Weil laughing with him. I find him viscerally revolting, though, and I don't think they can turn it around even if they make him behave like a smart and/or decent person at some point.

If they really want me to root for the FBI, they're going to have to completely get rid of Garrett. He's firmly in the antagonist box for me, and I don't care at all about his personal life or potential redemption.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Trini
love it when typos get quoted :(

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

If they really want me to root for the FBI, they're going to have to completely get Garret. He's firmly in the antagonist box for me, and I don't care at all about his personal life or potential redemption.

I agree. He violates due process, he doesn't give a crap about Thony or her son or anyone else, he's ruthless and completely gross. He was lazy as hell and got Gabby (and almost Fiona) deported, disrupted the lives of all the women on the party bus as cleaners, he doesn't care. It's a game to him, all for his ego thrill of "winning." 

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

If they really want me to root for the FBI, they're going to have to completely get Garret. He's firmly in the antagonist box for me, and I don't care at all about his personal life or potential redemption.

So much yes.  He is completely corrupt and icky in every way.  They have set this show up so that we are compelled to side with the criminals.  If we had a decent example of law enforcement instead of that scumbag things might be more conflicted for me.  I don't understand why he hasn't been fired yet. He has compromised any convictions they might be able to get.

Edited February 22, 2022 by magdalene

[Raja]

5 hours ago, magdalene said:

So much yes.  He is completely corrupt and icky in every way.  They have set this show up so that we are compelled to side with the criminals.  If we had a decent example of law enforcement instead of that scumbag things might be more conflicted for me.  I don't understand why he hasn't been fired yet. He has compromised any convictions they might be able to get.

And let's look at the crime the criminals are committing. The sale of military guns for export. We haven't seen them turn up on Vegas streets in Chris' hand but rather for a revolutionary in Armenia for Hayak's deal and for Arman's a survivalist, not a militia guy who wants to stock a bunker in Chile.

We haven't seen any collateral damage done by the gang's crimes which have been internal discipline things. What fall out which has come besides, Thony getting locked in, is Gabby being deported because of the FBI's counter action.

[phoenics]

48 minutes ago, Raja said:

And let's look at the crime the criminals are committing. The sale of military guns for export. We haven't seen them turn up on Vegas streets in Chris' hand but rather for a revolutionary in Armenia for Hayak's deal and for Arman's a survivalist, not a militia guy who wants to stock a bunker in Chile.

We haven't seen any collateral damage done by the gang's crimes which have been internal discipline things. What fall out which has come besides, Thony getting locked in, is Gabby being deported because of the FBI's counter action.

That’s a good point. This show is really doing a good job at explaining the motivations of the “criminals” so we empathize with them and see a different perspective. 
 

But with Garrett - the only personal stuff we see is the fallout from his own sketchy behavior - which inspires less empathy. Plus he really does see this as a game and he can’t believe Thony could see him as a snake vs Arman. He thinks he’s on the right side and that makes him good but he hunts people like he’s going for a notch on his belt - not because he has true personal motivation to do the right thing.

Contrast that with Arman who really wants to go clean and who truly wants to help Thony and Luca. Even after Thony tells him about Marco being there, Arman still tells Thony she doesn’t owe him a thing, and that she’s free after Luca’s surgery.  He’s lost her but he’s still trying to help Luca. Because it’s right and he wants to be a good person.

All Garrett wants is to win - no matter the collateral damage.

[rr2911]

I'm going to be in the minority here but I'm on the FBI side.  Arman has killed people.  That's the first indication that he is bad.  Thony and Fiona are here in the US illegally!  The show clearly sees the FBI as the bad guy and wants us to sympathize with the criminals and illegals here.  By some of the posts here it's working.  I feel Garrett needs to get to the level of Arman and think like him.  In the real world, Thony would be in all kinds of crap working for a known criminal and basically withholding information.  Ok, ok, it's only a show and things get a little bit quirky.  I actually was hoping for Arman and Garrett to kind of be working together.  When Arman didn't get what he thought Hayak had promised him, I thought he might use Thony to give some info to Garrett in order to get Hayak arrested.  Sort of like the Blacklist.  I'll give you info on some criminal activity and you (Garrett) leave me (Arman) alone type of thing.  It's still is a great show but I'm on Team Garrett!  😁

 

One other thing, I was hoping this show would not go the usual route but it has.  Do we really want to see Arman and Thony together?  I don't.  Too predictable. 

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

I'm going to be in the minority here but I'm on the FBI side.  Arman has killed people.  That's the first indication that he is bad.  Thony and Fiona are here in the US illegally!  The show clearly sees the FBI as the bad guy and wants us to sympathize with the criminals and illegals here.  By some of the posts here it's working.  I feel Garrett needs to get to the level of Arman and think like him.  In the real world, Thony would be in all kinds of crap working for a known criminal and basically withholding information.  Ok, ok, it's only a show and things get a little bit quirky.  I actually was hoping for Arman and Garrett to kind of be working together.  When Arman didn't get what he thought Hayak had promised him, I thought he might use Thony to give some info to Garrett in order to get Hayak arrested.  Sort of like the Blacklist.  I'll give you info on some criminal activity and you (Garrett) leave me (Arman) alone type of thing.  It's still is a great show but I'm on Team Garrett!  😁

 

One other thing, I was hoping this show would not go the usual route but it has.  Do we really want to see Arman and Thony together?  I don't.  Too predictable. 

But of course for the cleaning lady the question becomes who is on her side. The gangster who hasn't threatened that he needs an excuse to keep her alive for some time and he is going to pay for saving her son. Or the government agent who just used his stick on her and which deported a friend and almost deported her only family support at the time.

It wasn't just Agent Garrett but husband Marco put out as bad. As for Arman and Thony being together as endgame while not predictable I still don't see how this concept can keep rolling American series style and go beyond the miniseries of the original version.  Thony as a double agent for both sides  makes Arman as foolish as Garrett. If it were cable instead of broadcast TV Thony breaking bad might have worked if the illegal alien thus deportable because of her limited rights angle wasn't in play.

[paigow]

Fiona needs to resume her drug-dealing career...

[paigow]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:41 AM, phoenics said:

Contrast that with Arman who really wants to go clean

He is looking for the Natasha Romanoff redemption arc... so much red in the ledger...

[Raja]

27 minutes ago, paigow said:

He is looking for the Natasha Romanoff redemption arc... so much red in the ledger...

But it seems that Arman missed the lesson that inserting himself into another couple's marriage bed is just another shade of red.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

But it seems that Arman missed the lesson that inserting himself into another couple's marriage bed is just another shade of red.

The Bartons might have had a flexible marriage not suitable for the MCU... Clint and Natasha were trapped in a Budapest subway heating duct for a weekend and only played Tic-Tac-Toe... Marco is trying on his Redshirt at the craps table... No guilt for Thony...

[eel21788]

On 2/20/2022 at 3:03 PM, Raja said:

Since this remake made Thony a prestigious surgeon who is here illegally instead of just a cleaning lady the show itself only survives as long as Luca is imperil. If he is cured the de la Rosa's should just fly back home and resume the practice of medicine instead of doing the public health service of cleaning up party buses.

A liver transplant requires a lifetime of follow-up care. Is that available in the Philippines? Does Thorny (sarcasm, not a typo; I don't like her) think she will be able to take care of all the follow-up herself? Does she think once the transplant has been done illicitly it entitles her and Luca to a lifetime stay in the US because it is now the only way to keep him alive? (The latter is a very common belief among those who come here illegally to abuse our healthcare system).  

[eel21788]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:07 PM, phoenics said:

I also predict that Marco is either gonna end up dead maybe due to gambling debt  and maybe it’s one of Arman’s henchmen who kills him, not realizing Arman wouldn’t want the hit. Thony blames him and Arman takes over Hayek’s empire and forces Thony to still work for him.

. . . or Arman bails out Marco's gambling debt, and now Marco is also on his obligatory payroll. 

[eel21788]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:58 PM, Trini said:

 Marco said that they could just go back to the Philippines if they did it in Mexico, but (besides for Luca's health) isn't the liver transplant to get Luca into the clinical trial to treat his condition? So they'd have to get back to the U.S. anyway, right??

The stem cell transplant negated the need for Luca to get into the clinical trial. His bone marrow disease is now supposed to be in remission (it's too soon to call him cured).

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

A liver transplant requires a lifetime of follow-up care. Is that available in the Philippines? Does Thorny (sarcasm, not a typo; I don't like her) think she will be able to take care of all the follow-up herself? Does she think once the transplant has been done illicitly it entitles her and Luca to a lifetime stay in the US because it is now the only way to keep him alive? (The latter is a very common belief among those who come here illegally to abuse our healthcare system).  

I do believe the  Philippines has a decent health care system. But Thony and Luca didn't come to the US for a transplant.  Initially, they came because of an experimental trial only being done in the US for the rare condition Luca has that was unavailable anywhere else. They came here on a legal medical VISA.  Then there were some delays and the VISA expired.

[eel21788]

On 2/22/2022 at 7:41 AM, phoenics said:

Contrast that with Arman who really wants to go clean and who truly wants to help Thony and Luca. Even after Thony tells him about Marco being there, Arman still tells Thony she doesn’t owe him a thing, and that she’s free after Luca’s surgery.  He’s lost her but he’s still trying to help Luca. Because it’s right and he wants to be a good person.

Do you actually believe him? I think he wants her to believe she is free to go, and maybe he is trying to convince himself that he believes it too; however, as soon as he needs her to clean up another one (or more) of his messes, he will find a way to blackmail her into it again.

[eel21788]

10 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I do believe the  Philippines has a decent health care system. 

From Google:

The first blood and marrow transplant in Philippines was successfully performed in 1990, but despite this early start and the opening of two other transplant centers, only 21 transplants have been performed in two of the three existing transplant centers Aug 13, 2008

How much is bone marrow in the Philippines?

The average cost of bone marrow transplant in the Philippines is from 1.5 to 2.5 million pesos. Hospitals offer different packages and services based on the needs of the patient. Estimated cost of bone marrow transplant surgery is 3 million pesos for those that require special treatment. May 11, 2021 (1 USD = 51.58 Philippine peso; still a lot less expensive than paying out of pocket in the US)

This may explain why they wanted to come to the US for the clinical trial.

[phoenics]

20 hours ago, Raja said:

But it seems that Arman missed the lesson that inserting himself into another couple's marriage bed is just another shade of red.

Technically that's what Thony is doing too, so ... 

5 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Do you actually believe him? I think he wants her to believe she is free to go, and maybe he is trying to convince himself that he believes it too; however, as soon as he needs her to clean up another one (or more) of his messes, he will find a way to blackmail her into it again.

I believe he believes it and I believe he WANTS to do the right thing and set her free - because he's clearly fallen head over heels for her. 

[phoenics]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:24 PM, rr2911 said:

I'm going to be in the minority here but I'm on the FBI side.  Arman has killed people.  That's the first indication that he is bad.  Thony and Fiona are here in the US illegally!  The show clearly sees the FBI as the bad guy and wants us to sympathize with the criminals and illegals here.  By some of the posts here it's working.

I can understand the instinct to look at this show in terms of black and white - but what I really like about this show is it really explores the grey matter.  It's also showing this from the PoV of Thony - who is good or bad to her.  

Thony and her son came to the US legally to get him a life saving treatment he couldn't get anywhere else.  Then delays outside of her control happened and her visa ran out.  But to save her son's life, she stays.  To save her life and her family's life, she works for Arman cleaning crime scenes.  Ultimately this show is about her doing what is necessary to survive and save her son.  I empathize with that and I think I'd be hard pressed to find a parent who wouldn't do exactly as she's doing.

With Arman - he's such a complex fascinating character.  He's killed people - yes.  He's also trafficking guns and basically the head of the mob.  So yeah - he's a dangerous dude.  And in real life I am sure Thony would not associate with someone like that.  But they've been thrown together in this situation and he made a difficult decision to keep her alive when his boss would have killed her instantly (and jumped up Arman's a** for not killing her).  He's saved her life multiple times, gone to bat for her, and stepped up to help her with Luca, even putting his own position with Hayak in jeopardy to do it.  He seems to be trying to move away from the gangsta life (don't think it will take the first try) and be a better person.  I can empathize with him - he's stuck in a life he got into at a young age so he would never have to depend on anyone to help his family - and sadly - he's still in the same spot.  He sees that and wants out.  And he knows Hayak won't let him out alive.  He also appears to regret the horrible things he's done.

Garrett appears to represent the ends justifying the means - maybe to him he sees Arman and all that as very black and white.  Arman is breaking the law and trafficking guns and folks are dying - so to Garrett it doesn't matter what rules/laws he breaks because Arman is "bad" and he (Garrett) is "good".  If that's how one sees things then I guess maybe one would be TeamFBI.  I would like to note that even when Garrett sleeping with an informant and getting one killed was brought up - he didn't seem remorseful at all.  Sometimes I wonder if he had a better private life if he'd show more empathy in his role.  That stunt he pulled with ICE was deplorable.

I'm enjoying the show and really liking the exploration of grey the show is doing, so I'm TeamThony and TeamArman until he messes up.

[rr2911]

20 hours ago, phoenics said:

I can understand the instinct to look at this show in terms of black and white - but what I really like about this show is it really explores the grey matter.  It's also showing this from the PoV of Thony - who is good or bad to her.  

Thony and her son came to the US legally to get him a life saving treatment he couldn't get anywhere else.  Then delays outside of her control happened and her visa ran out.  But to save her son's life, she stays.  To save her life and her family's life, she works for Arman cleaning crime scenes.  Ultimately this show is about her doing what is necessary to survive and save her son.  I empathize with that and I think I'd be hard pressed to find a parent who wouldn't do exactly as she's doing.

With Arman - he's such a complex fascinating character.  He's killed people - yes.  He's also trafficking guns and basically the head of the mob.  So yeah - he's a dangerous dude.  And in real life I am sure Thony would not associate with someone like that.  But they've been thrown together in this situation and he made a difficult decision to keep her alive when his boss would have killed her instantly (and jumped up Arman's a** for not killing her).  He's saved her life multiple times, gone to bat for her, and stepped up to help her with Luca, even putting his own position with Hayak in jeopardy to do it.  He seems to be trying to move away from the gangsta life (don't think it will take the first try) and be a better person.  I can empathize with him - he's stuck in a life he got into at a young age so he would never have to depend on anyone to help his family - and sadly - he's still in the same spot.  He sees that and wants out.  And he knows Hayak won't let him out alive.  He also appears to regret the horrible things he's done.

Garrett appears to represent the ends justifying the means - maybe to him he sees Arman and all that as very black and white.  Arman is breaking the law and trafficking guns and folks are dying - so to Garrett it doesn't matter what rules/laws he breaks because Arman is "bad" and he (Garrett) is "good".  If that's how one sees things then I guess maybe one would be TeamFBI.  I would like to note that even when Garrett sleeping with an informant and getting one killed was brought up - he didn't seem remorseful at all.  Sometimes I wonder if he had a better private life if he'd show more empathy in his role.  That stunt he pulled with ICE was deplorable.

I'm enjoying the show and really liking the exploration of grey the show is doing, so I'm TeamThony and TeamArman until he messes up.

That's why I enjoy this board because everyone has a different take and a different view on things.  We the viewer have the advantage here.  We get to see Arman wanting a better life and wanting to get out.  Garrett doesn't know this and quite frankly, even if he knew what Arman's intentions were, this shouldn't deter Garrett from taking down Arman and all his hoodlums.  Arman is the bad guy here or is suppose to be.  Like Arman, Garrett isn't perfect.  Arman and Garrett might even be alike in some ways.  They're both determined to get what they want and will do whatever it takes to get the job done.  Too bad the the show is depicting Garrett as doing wrong when all he wants is to get Arman off the streets.  But I'll keep watching. 

[paigow]

Unlike other rogue TV cops that only violate civil / constitutional rights of suspects, Garrett is all about treating any civilian as an expendable asset.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Unlike other rogue TV cops that only violate civil / constitutional rights of suspects, Garrett is all about treating any civilian as an expendable asset.

THIS!  This is what I can't get with on Garrett's part.  He's all stick, while Arman is carrot.  Aside from being cruel, it's also stupid - look who got Thony's loyalty.  Arman.  The Carrot.  Why can't Garrett see that?  Did he fail the psyops training at Quantico?

I didn't watch Breaking Bad - but were people "but he's the BAD guy" with him too?  Or were folks team "police" or DTAF or whatever?

Personally I'm not used to watching tv with police/criminals where police aren't lionized even when they do break the law to bring down a criminal because "the ends justify the means".  So seeing this show tell this story that way would bore me - aren't there enough cop worshipping shows out there already?  I LOVE seeing this subverted on this show and telling this story differently.  And the show is only showing Garrett as being a hot mess - the other agents seem like straight arrows and I empathize with Renee and the blonde lady FBI agent because they want to do things the right way and sound sensible.  Even Renee was like "it's time to cut her [Thony] loose" and Garrett couldn't do it.  She knew they needed another angle - AND she seemed to believe another agent other than Garrett would probably do a better job investigating because he really is so wrapped up in this.  Even the way he sauntered into the casino all swagalicious like this was a game and his staring down Arman like he's Superman to Arman's Lex Luthor was so ... me me me!  I get it - you probably have to have some level of ego and "win at all costs" mentality to stay in the hunt to bring criminals to justice but maybe this show's message is just how blurry the lines are and how FBI dude could easily cross over to the dark side with that mentality.

Even the ICE agent stuff was interesting - you had one agent who was sympathetic and treated the detainees like human beings and the other one who treated them horribly claiming she was "following orders".  Following orders my ass - she got off on dehumanizing them and looking down on them because to her, they were the bad guys.

I enjoy the exploration of the shades of gray.

[Irlandesa]

I don't tend to enjoy any side being lionized too much.  I don't like when cop shows ignore the bad stuff the cops do in the 'pursuit of justice' and I don't like when criminals get a free pass on murder simply because 'what else are they to do in their circumstances?' which they usually are in due to choices they've made. 

I don't hate Garrett as much as others.  And as much as I love Arman, I don't have sympathy for him just because he spews some bullshit about "going straight" but if he didn't get his six million, he suddenly can't leave the business?  Uh huh.  He might care about Thony but he also uses his power over her...whether it's under the guise of "keeping her alive" or helping out her son.  Up until now, there has been a bit of a quid pro quo. 

I absolutely ship them.  Chemistry like that is so rare.  But I take it in with the reservations of the previous few paragraphs.

25 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I didn't watch Breaking Bad - but were people "but he's the BAD guy" with him too?  Or were folks team "police" or DTAF or whatever?

Fair warning, I'm a massive Breaking Bad fan. In the beginning, the cop brother-in-law came off as a bit rough around the edges and we were supposed to see the main guy as put upon and desperate.  However, as the series developed, we learn more about the nuances of each character and what truly motivates them. First impressions were just that, first impressions.  There was definitely a faction of the audience who wanted the main guy to get away with everything from the pilot to the series finale but there was another large part of the audience whose sympathies changed and they rooted for his brother-in-law, the cop. Or at least their sympathies changed.

[phoenics]

20 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't hate Garrett as much as others.  And as much as I love Arman, I don't have sympathy for him just because he spews some bullshit about "going straight" but if he didn't get his six million, he suddenly can't leave the business?  Uh huh.  He might care about Thony but he also uses his power over her...whether it's under the guise of "keeping her alive" or helping out her son.  Up until now, there has been a bit of a quid pro quo. 

I absolutely ship them.  Chemistry like that is so rare.  But I take it in with the reservations of the previous few paragraphs.

I don't actually hate Garrett - I just think he's dumb and I don't like how he's doing his job.  I question his motives and think another agent would be better but I don't hate him.  And I love Arman but I actually predict he's gonna fall off a baddie cliff at the end of the season because he's gonna have to either take over the syndicate or off Hayak to save his own skin but I digress.

And of course I ship him with Thony - and I think they are in a quid pro quo - but he uses a carrot to inspire loyalty.

Thony is also in a quid pro quo with Garrett - but his quo is mostly under threat?

Maybe this will explain the distinction I see - Arman and Thony were thrown into that situation together because of an errant phone ringtone that alerted Arman's goons to Thony's presence after Hayak's stupid son killed Theo. At that point, Thony had two outcomes - death or cleaning lady with Arman's protection.  Arman made the decision to do the latter - because he doesn't want to kill her.  So it's more that he saw her predicament and made the choice to help vs use her.  Because she's the one who offered to clean.

Maybe you can say he's abusing his power by continuing to make her clean?

With Garrett, he is only using her.  And he's using her precarious legal status as a stick to force her to put her life at risk informing.  And he's breaking laws left and right to do it.

Maybe we cut Arman slack because he's a mob guy so needing a cleaner is expected, so we don't flip out when he does it - but we don't expect a man of the law to break the law and be so cruel, so we are harsher in response to him?  Plus we believe the mob guy actually cares about Thony and we believe Garrett only cares about winning?

 

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

I didn't watch Breaking Bad - but were people "but he's the BAD guy" with him too?  Or were folks team "police" or DTAF or whatever?

Well, The Cleaning Lady can only dream of having the caliber writing Breaking Bad had.  There was no black and white on that show.  Walter White was a fascinating man but never written as a "good guy" and his cop foil was a flawed guy but basically decent.  I don't want to say more because everybody should watch Breaking Bad at least once in their life.

[CrystalBlue]

24 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Well, The Cleaning Lady can only dream of having the caliber writing Breaking Bad had.  There was no black and white on that show.  Walter White was a fascinating man but never written as a "good guy" and his cop foil was a flawed guy but basically decent.  I don't want to say more because everybody should watch Breaking Bad at least once in their life.

This 1000%.  BrBa = Best. Show. Ever.

TCL is nowhere near anything as brilliant as Breaking Bad and never will be.

The characters in BB evolved (or devolved as the case may be), were nuanced and complicated.

Garrett Miller is on the right side of the law but is a flawed agent within that organization.  His failings are his own and at this point I think he's riding on his so-called good looks with the ladies to keep his job.

Arman is an automatic baddie because the mob he's in but acts nice, sometimes, to a woman he has the hots for.  Plus he's cheating on his much better-looking wife for reasons.

[Raja]

The agent of The Cleaning Lady is more in line with the cops of Animal Kingdom than the DEA of Breaking Bad. I can't think of a character like Thony being forced to be a criminal, she is being rewarded for her part as a mob asset but can she really leave alive.

[Trini]

Someone to Watch over Me - Élodie Yung: