S01.E09: Doomcoming

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, Kristi800 said:

Also, between Adam simply appearing, her husband being secretive (and blackmailing her), her crazy past coming back to haunt her, (and daughter trying to blackmail her! I wouldn't go so far as to absolve her going directly to killing Adam, but she has been on edge. Going back to killing bunnies (hopefully doesn't mean she's pregnant!). 

Yeah, I've been wondering if Jeff knows or now knows because of the diaries - about the baby. It seems like a strange thing to keep from him since it is/was his, but also strange because we don't know what happened to it in the wilderness. Not sure if it's something I'm ready for. Also, with all this sex going on (with Travis...), I hope there aren't more pregnancies!

I would definitely like to see some roots for Nat and longer hair for the rest - besides Tai now.  

Jackie has been starving for at least a couple months now (I’m guessing). It’s very unlikely that she’s still ovulating, so no worries about pregnancy!

[sistermagpie]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:30 AM, Chaos Theory said:

And yeah the shrooms thing went from a pleasant high to out of control real fast.   We know Travis doesn't get killed but I was pretty sure that the group would kill Jackie.    

I thought it was too early to go after Jackie. I'm really fascinated at the way they instead keep isolating her from everyone. Not in an explicit "We all hate you, Jackie!" way (though sometimes there's a little of that) but the way she seems so untouched by the situation the way they are. She's somehow not having this experience with them.

On 1/10/2022 at 12:12 PM, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I'm calling BS on that. Her face wasn't just cut, it looked like it had a chunk torn out of hit, which is how you could see her teeth through the side of her face. She should have more than just a lightning bolt shaped scar on her cheek - assuming she would survive that at all, which I still find a stretch.

I assumed that scar was not what she looked like at all, just how she looked to Tai in that moment--though it still seems unlikely she'd be healing all that well. She's not talking like Richard on Boardwalk Empire even!

 

On 1/10/2022 at 1:26 PM, iMonrey said:

As someone who has tripped on acid more than once, I can tell you, that wasn't a realistic portrayal. It was more along the lines of those cautionary tales whipped up by Afterschool Specials. Like anyone who does drugs automatically thinks they can fly and climbs up on the roof and jumps. The idea that Shauna was hallucinating Travis as a deer (or whatever animal she was seeing) is pretty preposterous. Maybe the fermented berry wine made the acid trip that much more intense, but I think the more likely outcome would be projectile vomiting.

I assumed this wasn't really supposed to be about just the mushrooms in any realistic way. Not only were they also drinking whatever that stuff was, but they're probably on the edge of madness anyway as well. Definitely thought of the ancient Greek connection, even not knowing much about it. I love the folk horror stuff and think it fits in perfectly with the show, especially when they set it up so eerily like they did in this ep. 

As I said above, it was like Jackie really was at the prom, scheming to sleep with the one guy for her own reasons etc. Meanwhile everybody else is...that.

On 1/10/2022 at 9:50 PM, Dewey Decimate said:

Thoughts on why Jackie dumped the 'shroom stew while sitting on the log with Shauna? Did she know about the extra ingredient? On the one hand, I would not put it past Her Bitchy Highness to reject anything that Shauna offered her, but, um, wasn't that really expected to be their last decent meal for a long time? Seemed weird.

Interesting how they started with Jackie not wanting to eat--seems like another theme of Jackie not liking this "living off the land" stuff. They were eating grubs first, right? She must be eating something to survive, but she's still keeping herself out of it as much as possible and not eating the gross strew was maybe part of it. This was her prom.

 

On 1/11/2022 at 9:44 AM, Rockfish said:

This means Jackie could not experience what everyone else experienced—running the gamut from a lovely buzz to scary, violent hallucinations. And this will further separate her from the group. Tripping together can create tight bonds between people.

Yup, exactly. Another missed bond not only between her and the other girls, but between her and the forest.

On 1/11/2022 at 9:06 PM, Misty79 said:

I find her an interesting study. She seems capable of genuine kindness (e.g. her scene doing Misty’s makeup) but she has a seriously malicious streak (outing Shauna’s pregnancy, sleeping with Travis). 

I didn't take that as particularly kind, myself. Not that I think it was bad. It just seemed like a moment where Jackie could feel like she was in her old place in the hierarchy.

On 1/11/2022 at 9:44 PM, Black Knight said:

I think Jackie is someone who, for all her outward confidence, had some insecurities that she tried to paper over with her confidence (faking it to make it, so to speak) and by negging her best friend a fair amount.

Yes, that's how I saw her too. Though I don't know if I felt she was confident about Jeff and Shauna either since she didn't seem very into Jeff and was constantly negging Shauna. They actually seemed like another example of her insecurity to me, that she needed to feel like she was the better person in the pairing. It was like she was always living a life where everyone assumed she was the special one, but there wasn't really anything there to make her special.  When she tries to recreate that environment in the woods it just seems clearer how artificial it was. Even her nihilism seems more just like teen sulky anger.

[maystone]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:26 PM, iMonrey said:

Yes, he confirmed he sent the postcards. The strange thing is that he clearly expected Taissa to pay up so I don't know what the point was sending cards to Misty and Nat too.

As someone who has tripped on acid more than once, I can tell you, that wasn't a realistic portrayal. It was more along the lines of those cautionary tales whipped up by Afterschool Specials. Like anyone who does drugs automatically thinks they can fly and climbs up on the roof and jumps. The idea that Shauna was hallucinating Travis as a deer (or whatever animal she was seeing) is pretty preposterous. Maybe the fermented berry wine made the acid trip that much more intense, but I think the more likely outcome would be projectile vomiting.

This show demands a strong suspension of disbelief, I'm finding.

Different substance, different strength perhaps, different circumstances, different time. My time was late 60s; we were getting ready to drive to the store (yes, stupid) when one of our friends started trying to pull us out of the car yelling that we were all dying and had skeleton faces. Bit of a buzz kill, that, and it freaked the hell out of two of the others. Strange things can happen.

[Black Knight]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Though I don't know if I felt she was confident about Jeff and Shauna either since she didn't seem very into Jeff and was constantly negging Shauna. They actually seemed like another example of her insecurity to me, that she needed to feel like she was the better person in the pairing.

I agree that for her that was part of the appeal, that she felt like the better one in both of those pairings. (And in terms of not being very into Jeff, she may have been following the advice that it's better to be the person less into the relationship because that is the person with more power.) But what I said was that I thought she was confident about Jeff and Shauna's feelings for her. After all, even though she and Jeff had broken up multiple times it really never occurred to her that he might hook up with another girl. If she'd been with a guy she was really into, or one who she thought was superior to her, I think she would have been a lot more doubtful. And in the pilot she told Shauna that she was the one person who'd always had Jackie's back. It's partly because she felt superior to Shauna and Jeff that she was sure of how they felt about her.

(And I do think they both loved her. It's just that neither of them are trustworthy people. I liked Jeff in the moment when Shauna was bemoaning "How did we become these people?" and he said they've always been these people, exactly what I'd been thinking while listening to Shauna. He's much more self-aware than I originally thought.)

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I agree that for her that was part of the appeal, that she felt like the better one in both of those pairings. (And in terms of not being very into Jeff, she may have been following the advice that it's better to be the person less into the relationship because that is the person with more power.) But what I said was that I thought she was confident about Jeff and Shauna's feelings for her. After all, even though she and Jeff had broken up multiple times it really never occurred to her that he might hook up with another girl. If she'd been with a guy she was really into, or one who she thought was superior to her, I think she would have been a lot more doubtful. And in the pilot she told Shauna that she was the one person who'd always had Jackie's back. It's partly because she felt superior to Shauna and Jeff that she was sure of how they felt about her.

(And I do think they both loved her. It's just that neither of them are trustworthy people. I liked Jeff in the moment when Shauna was bemoaning "How did we become these people?" and he said they've always been these people, exactly what I'd been thinking while listening to Shauna. He's much more self-aware than I originally thought.)

Ah, I see. I was thinking that her need to feel she was the superior person meant she was afraid they didn't really care about her, but I see what you mean--she'd intentionally chosen these two relationships where she thought she could feel secure and then they betrayed her specifically. Ironically, her behavior probably is what helped them justify it to themselves, though it doesn't make it any better--they really were always those people.

[Black Knight]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Ironically, her behavior probably is what helped them justify it to themselves, though it doesn't make it any better--they really were always those people.

It's an interesting question, whether Shauna would have done it if not for the complicated dynamics with Jackie. I lean towards no. I still don't think she would have looked twice at Jeff in high school if he hadn't been Jackie's boyfriend. Someone made the great point that when Shauna was describing to Taissa whom she'd date in college, it was someone like Adam, not Jeff. This doesn't excuse Shauna, of course, and I think most people who are being annoyed by their best friend would find a better way to handle their feelings than repeatedly having sex with their best friend's partner.

For Jeff it probably wasn't more complicated than that Jackie wouldn't go all the way, although as we saw she was willing to do everything but, and Shauna would. He also had awareness that he wasn't anything more than the high school boyfriend and he probably justified it to himself in that way - why bother being faithful to a girl who's going to dump him anyway? He also probably justified it to himself in that Shauna would be the initiator and so he would just be going along. But in the end, he also could have handled things with Jackie differently. The fact neither he nor Shauna chose to points to what he said, they were always cheats and liars.

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

For Jeff it probably wasn't more complicated than that Jackie wouldn't go all the way, although as we saw she was willing to do everything but, and Shauna would. He also had awareness that he wasn't anything more than the high school boyfriend and he probably justified it to himself in that way - why bother being faithful to a girl who's going to dump him anyway? He also probably justified it to himself in that Shauna would be the initiator and so he would just be going along. But in the end, he also could have handled things with Jackie differently. The fact neither he nor Shauna chose to points to what he said, they were always cheats and liars.

It's weird, because I get Shauna much more than Jeff - and even maybe respect her cheating more? Maybe not. It's basically just that I get that Shauna was (or seemed to be) acting out of resentment and a feeling of being not as good - something we know she had reason to feel. So while she was still doing something mean and hurtful, I at least get that she was *trying* to something mean and hurtful, even if she didn't want Jackie to know about it (so mean and hurtful but cowardly). She felt guilty about it and knew she was the bad guy, no matter how she might have thought about it when she was doing it.

But with Jeff it's just like...wtf? If it's just that it was offered to him and so he took it, despite allegedly actually loving his girlfriend and really having no reason that we saw to feel resentment towards her (it's not like he wasn't getting satisfied sexually in any way or that Jackie seemed to be telling him he wasn't good enough to sleep with?) it makes him seem worse to me. Even if his betrayal probably didn't hurt as much as Shauna's. Maybe especially since Shauna had to live with more consequences than he did. 

[Black Knight]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But with Jeff it's just like...wtf? If it's just that it was offered to him and so he took it, despite allegedly actually loving his girlfriend and really having no reason that we saw to feel resentment towards her (it's not like he wasn't getting satisfied sexually in any way or that Jackie seemed to be telling him he wasn't good enough to sleep with?) it makes him seem worse to me.

Granted I have never been a teenage boy and so can't really speak for them, and so this may be entirely unfair of me, but I think the average teenage boy will take sex from whoever is willing to give it to them. He probably didn't want to be a virgin all 4 years of high school, especially when he was apparently the big man on campus (that comment to Shauna about his being "homecoming royalty.") Jackie was fixated on their first time being a certain way (no doubt made a lot easier by her not being really into him anyway) and he likely didn't share that view and would have been fine doing it whenever wherever.

The question of who is worse, Jeff or Shauna, is a very interesting one. Like you said, if we look at motive, his is a poorer one - he probably just wanted sex whereas Shauna had these very complicated feelings happening. If we look at whom Jackie cared about more, Shauna is worse. Shauna is the one Jackie envisioned a post-high-school life with, not Jeff. I think Jackie's rant to Travis made it clear that Shauna's betrayal hurt her so much more than Jeff's did. Is the fact that Shauna had "better" reason enough to outweigh that her betrayal hurt Jackie more? And Shauna had reason to suspect she meant more to Jackie than Jeff did. In the sixth episode she seemed surprised at the possibility that Jackie might actually love Jeff.

[Zonk]

Poor hot, simple Adam. He really didn't deserve that.

 

[Cinnabon]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:20 PM, sistermagpie said:

I thought it was too early to go after Jackie. I'm really fascinated at the way they instead keep isolating her from everyone. Not in an explicit "We all hate you, Jackie!" way (though sometimes there's a little of that) but the way she seems so untouched by the situation the way they are. She's somehow not having this experience with them.

I assumed that scar was not what she looked like at all, just how she looked to Tai in that moment--though it still seems unlikely she'd be healing all that well. She's not talking like Richard on Boardwalk Empire even!

 

I assumed this wasn't really supposed to be about just the mushrooms in any realistic way. Not only were they also drinking whatever that stuff was, but they're probably on the edge of madness anyway as well. Definitely thought of the ancient Greek connection, even not knowing much about it. I love the folk horror stuff and think it fits in perfectly with the show, especially when they set it up so eerily like they did in this ep. 

As I said above, it was like Jackie really was at the prom, scheming to sleep with the one guy for her own reasons etc. Meanwhile everybody else is...that.

Interesting how they started with Jackie not wanting to eat--seems like another theme of Jackie not liking this "living off the land" stuff. They were eating grubs first, right? She must be eating something to survive, but she's still keeping herself out of it as much as possible and not eating the gross strew was maybe part of it. This was her prom.

 

Yup, exactly. Another missed bond not only between her and the other girls, but between her and the forest.

I didn't take that as particularly kind, myself. Not that I think it was bad. It just seemed like a moment where Jackie could feel like she was in her old place in the hierarchy.

Yes, that's how I saw her too. Though I don't know if I felt she was confident about Jeff and Shauna either since she didn't seem very into Jeff and was constantly negging Shauna. They actually seemed like another example of her insecurity to me, that she needed to feel like she was the better person in the pairing. It was like she was always living a life where everyone assumed she was the special one, but there wasn't really anything there to make her special.  When she tries to recreate that environment in the woods it just seems clearer how artificial it was. Even her nihilism seems more just like teen sulky anger.

Yep, it totally seemed like she was just humoring Misty. Jackie was just waiting to go from homecoming queen to a bitchy sorority girl who thought she was all that. Having said that, I did feel for her in the end.

[Zonk]

On 1/11/2022 at 7:12 PM, snarts said:

There's a reason they give you antibiotics before any type of oral surgery.  Heck, some dentists prescribe them for a gum cleaning!

That seems like a weird american thing. I've had two teeth pulled and neither time was I given antibiotics.

The problem Van has ist that she got bitten by wolfes and the bacteria in their mouths are no joke.

On 1/11/2022 at 7:12 PM, snarts said:

It's Fall and none of them have had a nutritious diet since May.

They were eating really well for a long time there. Seems like it only recently dried up.

 

[Eeksquire]

Quote

I liked Jeff in the moment when Shauna was bemoaning "How did we become these people?" and he said they've always been these people, exactly what I'd been thinking while listening to Shauna. He's much more self-aware than I originally thought.

I loved that, and thought it was very telling. Also, I ended up liking Jeff a lot more by the end of this episode, stupid blackmail plot notwithstanding. He seems to genuinely love Shauna and be genuinely hurt that she cheated on him (and yet also pragmatic enough not to get overly distracted by that in the moment to derail from the fact that, you know, Shauna murdered someone. YMMV, but I hate when people are like "but now we have to emotionally unpack this in the midst of this other, more immediate crisis!" Like: Not now, Skippy, we can deal with your feelings later.)

Also: There was no BOOK CLUB?! Was comedy gold. 

And I suspect that Misty might eventually have to disappear TWO bodies, since I can't see reporter Jessica Michaels getting out of there alive. Not to mention that Misty has a pretty involved kidnapping set up in that basement? Seems like this is maybe not her first time at that particular rodeo.

[Paloma]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:58 PM, BitterApple said:

Jeff willing to fall on the sword for Shauna was cute, but he would've cracked like an egg during interrogation and Shauna knew it. Framing Adam as the blackmailer was a convenient out, as messed up as it was (not to mention defrauding Nat out of 50k). 

My husband and I just started watching it since it came to Netflix. Until this episode things generally made sense or had reasonable explanations, but we are totally confused by the blackmail plot. After the women put the bag of money in the dropoff bin and then unsuccessfully pursued the masked guy who picked it up, and Nat returned to her motel room, we thought there was a brief blurry scene (from Misty's surveillance camera?) of the same masked guy coming to Nat's motel room and handing her what looked like the packet of blackmail money. Why would the blackmailer give her back the money, especially if it was Jeff who needed the money to pay back bad guys who loaned the money for his business? And why would she bother to sell her car to get the money if she was in on the blackmail plot? And if she was in on it, why would she do it?

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Paloma said:

 After the women put the bag of money in the dropoff bin and then unsuccessfully pursued the masked guy who picked it up, and Nat returned to her motel room, we thought there was a brief blurry scene (from Misty's surveillance camera?) of the same masked guy coming to Nat's motel room and handing her what looked like the packet of blackmail money. Why would the blackmailer give her back the money, especially if it was Jeff who needed the money to pay back bad guys who loaned the money for his business? And why would she bother to sell her car to get the money if she was in on the blackmail plot? And if she was in on it, why would she do it?

I think the scene you must be thinking of is a scene where Nat just has a drug dealer come to her room to buy drugs. It's not the blackmailer or money, it's a drug dealer with cocaine she's buying.

[Kel Varnsen]

This was a crazy episode, although since it came out years ago most of what could be said about it has already been said. Although one funny/weird thing was that they live in New Jersey, but the loan shark that loaned Jeff the money was a pretty blonde woman, not a large guy in a tracksuit that looks like he is on his way to the Bada Bing.